(24 Jan 2024, 5:09 am)James101 wrote I can only qualify my own post, but my reference to cost effective was in comparison to other branding exercises GNE have been guilty of, perhaps some of the X-lines Streetdecks which rattled through paint jobs. 

 If we’re agreed fleet livery would require two colours and vinyls and Super Shuttle needs 3(?) colours and vinyls then the marginal cost of this appearing to be designed and executed in-house is really not a big expense. I’m surprised you needed this interpretation explaining.

I'm not sure where the element of surprise comes from? If there's a suggestion that something is cost-effective, I think it's perfectly reasonable to query the rationale of the statement.

It may not come with the costs of an agency to design a livery for you, but you're still utilising staff time in design, prep and paint. With your example of fleet livery (red, blue plus road stripes vinyl), then prep and paint of this is almost double (red, blue, white, yellow(?), plus Super Shuttle vinyls). Plus, has this not been repainted elsewhere, prior to coming back to the North East, only to be painted a different shade of blue? One of the same batch in a very similar livery here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/62607125@N08/53463646194/.

All of this comes at a cost to the business, and as I've posted earlier, with no tangible record of results on this particular service.

I think it's just a shame that GNE clearly have a talented internal designer after years of spending untold thousands on an external agency, for not much benefit

(24 Jan 2024, 10:38 am)Adrian wrote I'm not sure where the element of surprise comes from? If there's a suggestion that something is cost-effective, I think it's perfectly reasonable to query the rationale of the statement.

It may not come with the costs of an agency to design a livery for you, but you're still utilising staff time in design, prep and paint. With your example of fleet livery (red, blue plus road stripes vinyl), then prep and paint of this is almost double (red, blue, white, yellow(?), plus Super Shuttle vinyls). Plus, has this not been repainted elsewhere, prior to coming back to the North East, only to be painted a different shade of blue? One of the same batch in a very similar livery here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/62607125@N08/53463646194/.

All of this comes at a cost to the business, and as I've posted earlier, with no tangible record of results on this particular service.

I was surprised at your seemingly one-dimensional interpretation of my post as you're usually an articulate contributor capable of critical thinking. 

I'd suggest your analysis of the detail of this specific repaint actually goes to defend how low-cost this seems to have been produced for. We'd need someone more qualified in the area for exact numbers but the differences in time and product to produce Super Shuttle versus fleet livery really does seem like splitting hairs. I expect experienced painters really don't see this as a particular challenge and we've got no evidence as to how many office hours were spend on the design aspect, but I'd be surprised if it entered double figures. 

Please don't misinterpret my opinion on this specific matter as condoning the culture at Bensham at large. The 'them & us' attitude and boy's club is apparent as an outsider and from friends within the company. It's toxic and perhaps their biggest challenge as an organisation. 

The X66 has been branded since its inception, bar the few months since the Volvos departed to Go North West. Your criticism of its branding would have to be thrown toward each management regime since the mid 1980s, presumably they have access to the record of results that we do not. As a layperson, I'd suggest it's a good candidate for branding as it's prime for elastic bus users - perhaps drivers who dislike busy car parks or want to have a drink at the Metro's leisure quarter. The network at large is a multi-coloured spaghetti to them but a simple express shuttle from Gateshead Metro to their destination in a specific stand-out colour scheme is easy to spot and understand.

I do think the super-shuttle base livery should be used as the new corporate standard going forward. Clean, simple and easy.

(24 Jan 2024, 11:11 am)DeltaMan wrote I think it's just a shame that GNE clearly have a talented internal designer after years of spending untold thousands on an external agency, for not much benefit

Wasn't 6050 designed internally?

(24 Jan 2024, 11:11 am)DeltaMan wrote I think it's just a shame that GNE clearly have a talented internal designer after years of spending untold thousands on an external agency, for not much benefit

"years of spending untold thousands" was under the previous (2018-2022) MD of course.

(24 Jan 2024, 9:40 pm)busmanT wrote "years of spending untold thousands" was under the previous (2018-2022) MD of course.

I wouldn’t say that’s true, the previous MDs also had no issues throwing cash about.

(24 Jan 2024, 11:53 pm)Ambassador wrote I wouldn’t say that’s true, the previous MDs also had no issues throwing cash about.

Nor the one before that.

(24 Jan 2024, 9:40 pm)busmanT wrote "years of spending untold thousands" was under the previous (2018-2022) MD of course.

And the Huntly era. We know from TfL FoI requests how much these rebrand excercises cost and the London ones are awful!

(24 Jan 2024, 9:40 pm)busmanT wrote "years of spending untold thousands" was under the previous (2018-2022) MD of course.

As much as you may dislike Martijn Gilbert (personally and/or professionall), other MDs were just as guilty of throwing paint around just for the sake of it. Branding the 69 (and 69A) 'Kingfisher' and 'Pulse' immediately springs to mind, but I'm guessing there are other examples of pointless multiple rebrands to routes not making any money (as evidenced by the fact GNE decided to ditch it leaving the taxpayer to pick up the bill).

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(25 Jan 2024, 11:43 am)MurdnunoC wrote As much as you may dislike Martijn Gilbert (personally and/or professionall), other MDs were just as guilty of throwing paint around just for the sake of it. Branding the 69 (and 69A) 'Kingfisher' and 'Pulse' immediately springs to mind, but I'm guessing there are other examples of pointless multiple rebrands to routes not making any money (as evidenced by the fact GNE decided to ditch it leaving the taxpayer to pick up the bill).

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Magic Roundabout was no doubt expensive due to the copy right of using the characters.

(25 Jan 2024, 11:47 am)Michael wrote Magic Roundabout was no doubt expensive due to the copy right of using the characters.

Depends there mind, they might have allowed it for free, as it's technically free advertising.

It's no different to the full wraps for buses to market a new film really.

(24 Jan 2024, 12:09 pm)James101 wrote I was surprised at your seemingly one-dimensional interpretation of my post as you're usually an articulate contributor capable of critical thinking. 

Likewise, so was a bit surprised you've chosen to play the man and not the ball twice now. I guess we'll agree to disagree though.

(25 Jan 2024, 11:43 am)MurdnunoC wrote As much as you may dislike Martijn Gilbert (personally and/or professionall), other MDs were just as guilty of throwing paint around just for the sake of it. Branding the 69 (and 69A) 'Kingfisher' and 'Pulse' immediately springs to mind, but I'm guessing there are other examples of pointless multiple rebrands to routes not making any money (as evidenced by the fact GNE decided to ditch it leaving the taxpayer to pick up the bill).

This is a really important point. The current issues at GNE aren't a by-product of Martijn's management of the company. Did he do everything right? Of course not, but let's not forget that he inherited a business that had been lacking strategy and creative thinking since Peter Huntley walked out of the door. You could actually argue that MG was dealt a bad hand, as two years of his management were under Covid conditions.

(25 Jan 2024, 12:12 pm)Storx wrote Depends there mind, they might have allowed it for free, as it's technically free advertising.

It's no different to the full wraps for buses to market a new film really.

One is a business choosing to advertise their product (in the form of a full wrap), the other is a business, choosing to use someone else's work, to boost their own business. I'd be very surprised if it was used without a licence that they paid for.

Wasn't within Martjin first two years before COVID passenger numbers increasing, he was dealt a bad hand. He tried with the current network after covid, frequency increases, late night services, didn't work and ended up in just three years of cuts and cuts

(25 Jan 2024, 1:01 pm)Adrian wrote One is a business choosing to advertise their product (in the form of a full wrap), the other is a business, choosing to use someone else's work, to boost their own business. I'd be very surprised if it was used without a licence that they paid for.

It's hard to tell either way, as it benefits both parties really. Not sure what benefit GoNorthEast gets from licencing a brand for the side of a bus, there's certainly very little monetary value to it.

Heck the creators of Magic Roundabout might have paid for the brand if anything, I'm sure there was a film and TV series released at the same time which it promoted. It's no different the 'Imperial Leather The Flume' at Alton Towers which they 100% paid for.

The Magic Roundabout brand was used under license however due to the cost of renewing the license to keep using the brand, it was dropped once the original contract expired.

(25 Jan 2024, 2:47 pm)Rapidsnap wrote The Magic Roundabout brand was used under license however due to the cost of renewing the license to keep using the brand, it was dropped once the original contract expired.

Surprised at that, always thought it would've been a form of advertising deal.

Horrid decision mind, as I really don't see the benefits of it and a complete waste of money, least someone seen sense and ditched it.

(25 Jan 2024, 2:47 pm)Rapidsnap wrote The Magic Roundabout brand was used under license however due to the cost of renewing the license to keep using the brand, it was dropped once the original contract expired.

Somehow that makes the decision to brand this service worse

Another questionable business decision by an MD preceeding the one who served between 2018-2022.


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Think a few people questioned it at the time to why it was named the Magic Roundabout when the show didn't have any connection to Sunderland (unless smoking the same drugs as the creators of the show). In fact doing a quick search, the Magic Roundabout was originally a French show adapted for English TV. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1163157250

I recall people also questioned to why the Black Cats brand was a pale yellow too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...0482590552

(25 Jan 2024, 3:58 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Think a few people questioned it at the time to why it was named the Magic Roundabout when the show didn't have any connection to Sunderland (unless smoking the same drugs as the creators of the show). In fact doing a quick search, the Magic Roundabout was originally a French show adapted for English TV. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1163157250

I recall people also questioned to why the Black Cats brand was a pale yellow too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...0482590552

The original black cats brand with the yellow base on those mpd’s has nothing to do with Sunderland football club, it was more to do with the world war at that time, also the fast cats brand name was more historical to Hartlepool boats when there arrived from overseas many many decades ago.


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(25 Jan 2024, 5:22 pm)cbma06 wrote The original black cats brand with the yellow base on those mpd’s has nothing to do with Sunderland football club, it was more to do with the world war at that time, also the fast cats brand name was more historical to Hartlepool boats when there arrived from overseas many many decades ago. 


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What about the Cats Fast brand which existed?

(25 Jan 2024, 6:06 pm)Andreos1 wrote What about the Cats Fast brand which existed?

Its branded as Fast Cats Brand and not Cats Fast brand


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(25 Jan 2024, 6:34 pm)cbma06 wrote Its branded as Fast Cats Brand and not Cats Fast brand


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Yeah, I know. But it read like Cats Fast. https://flic.kr/p/H9q3BV

Never mind.

(25 Jan 2024, 5:22 pm)cbma06 wrote The original black cats brand with the yellow base on those mpd’s has nothing to do with Sunderland football club, it was more to do with the world war at that time, also the fast cats brand name was more historical to Hartlepool boats when there arrived from overseas many many decades ago.


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Explanation of the Black Cats brand name from the original timetable attached.  For anyone interested the rationale given for the 33/42 was to bring a bit of colour and character, the route follows a circular path at one end and together with links to a community programme would bring buses to life for children...

(25 Jan 2024, 7:13 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Explanation of the Black Cats brand name from the original timetable attached.  For anyone interested the rationale given for the 33/42 was to bring a bit of colour and character, the route follows a circular path at one end and together with links to a community programme would bring buses to life for children...

Not sure what's so mysterious about a visible black cat meowing? You could understand the story more if there was mysterious meowing coming a place where no black cat was present.

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(25 Jan 2024, 11:43 am)I’m MurdnunoC wrote As much as you may dislike Martijn Gilbert (personally and/or professionall), other MDs were just as guilty of throwing paint around just for the sake of it. Branding the 69 (and 69A) 'Kingfisher' and 'Pulse' immediately springs to mind, but I'm guessing there are other examples of pointless multiple rebrands to routes not making any money (as evidenced by the fact GNE decided to ditch it leaving the taxpayer to pick up the bill).

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Working at GNE during Peter being MD. He believed strongly in branding but if it was kept for premium routes would have been better. The angel/coaster swap proved how much money was also wasted. Some buses have had 8/9 different brands during the life 3941-3943 spring to mind. You have had buses branded rebranded de branded to branded again .

I think one of 6331,6332,6333 have had about 4/5 and that is only within like 2018-2022 (dont think theyve had one since)

Go North East 667 / NK16 BXH by kieron mathews, on Flickr

667 is the first to be repainted into the New Tynedale Links livery


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Is 6338 getting a rear red end? Is this the good idea Dan had before leaving that ALL Xlines should their rear in GNE red to allow flexibility between the Xline allocations

https://flic.kr/p/2pQmN5z.

(10 May 2024, 6:09 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Is 6338 getting a rear red end? Is this the good idea Dan had before leaving that ALL Xlines should their rear in GNE red to allow flexibility between the Xline allocations

https://flic.kr/p/2pQmN5z.

No, it is receiving an allover wrap advertisement for a new marketing campaign that Go North East is launching - “get your bum on board”.


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