(17 Jan 2024, 9:32 pm)Unber43 wrote Again with just being around Newcastle

Ah yes, the 48, 64, and X46, all right through the centre of Newcastle.

(17 Jan 2024, 9:33 pm)mb134 wrote Ah yes, the 48, 64, and X46, all right through the centre of Newcastle.

i did mean GNE, both SC and Arriva have invested out of Newcastle with Sunderland and Durham but what about GNE

(17 Jan 2024, 10:11 pm)Unber43 wrote i did mean GNE, both SC and Arriva have invested out of Newcastle with Sunderland and Durham but what about GNE

Imagine it's largely down to Newcastle introducing the CAZ, so they were forced to invest in routes which serve Newcastle ahead of others. 

I obviously don't know the GNE financials, but I would imagine some of their highest revenue routes (which can justify new vehicles) are those which serve the biggest city in the region. Given the nature of the GNE network, many of these routes also pass through Gateshead prior to getting to Newcastle which again is another major place along the route to make money. I think another issue is that with the lack of recent investment in even these routes (the Angel Streetdecks are nearly 7 years old), it means that nothing newer can be cascaded to the rest of the network hence seeing 2006 E400s on routes like the 16 and 58 plate Tridents on the 21. It's the same problem as Arriva have really, just in their case they have a load of single deckers from around 2009 which aren't quite ready for the scrap yard, but when they are they'll pretty much all need replacing at once.

(17 Jan 2024, 10:35 pm)mb134 wrote Imagine it's largely down to Newcastle introducing the CAZ, so they were forced to invest in routes which serve Newcastle ahead of others. 

I obviously don't know the GNE financials, but I would imagine some of their highest revenue routes (which can justify new vehicles) are those which serve the biggest city in the region. Given the nature of the GNE network, many of these routes also pass through Gateshead prior to getting to Newcastle which again is another major place along the route to make money. I think another issue is that with the lack of recent investment in even these routes (the Angel Streetdecks are nearly 7 years old), it means that nothing newer can be cascaded to the rest of the network hence seeing 2006 E400s on routes like the 16 and 58 plate Tridents on the 21. It's the same problem as Arriva have really, just in their case they have a load of single deckers from around 2009 which aren't quite ready for the scrap yard, but when they are they'll pretty much all need replacing at once.

In fairness, I'm surprised Deptford (maybe technical I don't know?) isn't sustainable for some form of electric buses.

The 2/2A, 56 and 60 seem the sort of routes which would be ideal for it and would benefit many different areas and even Newcastle if the 56 was chosen. Seem more beneficial than the X66 which people are on for 10 minutes max.

All 3 routes are pretty much crying out for investment aswell really with those buses displaced to see off Versa's etc.

(17 Jan 2024, 5:26 pm)Storx wrote Not sure any of the stuff on the X46/64 will be getting displaced, it'll be a one way trip to the local scrap yard. Mind surprised they've gone for Deckers on the 64, must be doing well post Covid as it never used to be a Decker route (aware of frequency reductions).

64 has always been an odd one, whilst there's been some intended allocation of single deckers over the years: Prestige - Darts - E200, its also been a case of odds and ends, double deckers certainly ain't no strangers to the 64, think there's been points some boards were intended to be double deck allocated for school time loadings, it also gets absolutely rammed with New College students which has likely only been made worse since the frequency reduction ans aside from a small number of 6 journeys and the hourly Newcastle X12 journeys, its now the only Arriva service up to Fram (7 no longer runs to Fram at peak times and GCT now have the contracted 62 service).

Be interesting to see if the fact its a bid for specific means they will ACTUALLY only keep the buses on the specified routes or will it just continue to be a roulette in reality.

(17 Jan 2024, 10:58 pm)Storx wrote In fairness, I'm surprised Deptford (maybe technical I don't know?) isn't sustainable for some form of electric buses.

The 2/2A, 56 and 60 seem the sort of routes which would be ideal for it and would benefit many different areas and even Newcastle if the 56 was chosen. Seem more beneficial than the X66 which people are on for 10 minutes max.

All 3 routes are pretty much crying out for investment aswell really with those buses displaced to see off Versa's etc.

Deptford depot ATM is the black sheep of the company  just like percy main was years ago in relation to the aging fleet.

I may be cynical but it is good in business terms that Deptford currently gets the mid term "older buses" 

We are only looking 15-20 years ago that Deptford had a massive investment of brand new buses to the area...   it is other depot terms 

Deptford Consett and Washington (and an odd couple of routes at Percy Main) are the main routes that do not have to be euro6 compliant aka able to drive in Gateshead/NEWCASTLE 

With this in mind older fleet is better re-purposed with the least restrictions. 

41/41a has some of the worst buses in the fleet operating on the route as well as collectively the North Tyneside schools and works services 

Look back to Covid 19 bus depots were closed and used as storage and every bus that was the best value for money aka cost per mile in fuel and operating costs was used to provide a service everything else was SORN 

There is also another aspect to consider if a service route which I think (Seaham 60 service and Murton) are prone to random smashed windows which buses are cheaper to replace in terms of windows?

Just remember when the Quayside buses before Electric (yellow and black livery) were displaced to 41 41a and Percy Main when the Electric buses came in but they didn't stay for long.and were moved on. 

X66 funding I am actually in favour for - it's an express route but means It could be interworked or extended in the future 

What says in the future the X66 does not operate Gateshead -  metrocentre  a (x100 ) (new fictional service) Metrocentre to Eldon Square (DIrect) 

After all from 1st Jan 2024 GNE will not accept Stagecoach tickets on their services (a gentlemen agreement during covid) 

Two express routes will also improve reliability (your next service 10 is terminating at Metrocentre jump on this X100 to metrocentre where the bus will meet you) 

Improving X66 gives flexibility to displace onto other services or let it interwork

(18 Jan 2024, 12:38 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Deptford depot ATM is the black sheep of the company  just like percy main was years ago in relation to the aging fleet.

I may be cynical but it is good in business terms that Deptford currently gets the mid term "older buses" 

We are only looking 15-20 years ago that Deptford had a massive investment of brand new buses to the area...   it is other depot terms 

Deptford Consett and Washington (and an odd couple of routes at Percy Main) are the main routes that do not have to be euro6 compliant aka able to drive in Gateshead/NEWCASTLE 

With this in mind older fleet is better re-purposed with the least restrictions. 

41/41a has some of the worst buses in the fleet operating on the route as well as collectively the North Tyneside schools and works services 

Look back to Covid 19 bus depots were closed and used as storage and every bus that was the best value for money aka cost per mile in fuel and operating costs was used to provide a service everything else was SORN 

There is also another aspect to consider if a service route which I think (Seaham 60 service and Murton) are prone to random smashed windows which buses are cheaper to replace in terms of windows?

Just remember when the Quayside buses before Electric (yellow and black livery) were displaced to 41 41a and Percy Main when the Electric buses came in but they didn't stay for long.and were moved on. 

X66 funding I am actually in favour for - it's an express route but means It could be interworked or extended in the future 

What says in the future the X66 does not operate Gateshead -  metrocentre  a (x100 ) (new fictional service) Metrocentre to Eldon Square (DIrect) 

After all from 1st Jan 2024 GNE will not accept Stagecoach tickets on their services (a gentlemen agreement during covid) 

Two express routes will also improve reliability (your next service 10 is terminating at Metrocentre jump on this X100 to metrocentre where the bus will meet you) 

Improving X66 gives flexibility to displace onto other services or let it interwork

Aye some fair points but guess it depends if Deptford actually then gets the investment it eventually needs. The way it's going on it's as if they're setting it up for sold. Minimum investment etc, basically what DB has done with Arriva.

Not sure they'll do an express from the Metrocentre to Newcastle though as it'll just duplicate their own services, might aswell just have the punters on those instead. Even known running it via Scotswood Road would be massively helpful when the impending bridge works come in but that's too sensible.

I do think an express from Gateshead to Newcastle and Metro to Newcastle and termiante everything at Gateshead/Metro, but then whats the point of all the bus stations and bus stops, but the buses would have to be every 5 mins during the day atleast

Just curious, has anyone heard about what the Tees Valley bid is for?

Assuming by some of the Arriva reallocations recently that Darlington and Redcar are likely going to be involved in some way?

Looks like the Stagecoach element includes a Park and Ride and buses for the 30/31/36 https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/175050...ZPASjax3HQ&s=19

(25 Jan 2024, 2:10 pm)DeltaMan wrote Looks like the Stagecoach element includes a Park and Ride and buses for the 30/31/36 https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/175050...ZPASjax3HQ&s=19

I saw that and wondered are they actually going to use the depot land for the car parking?  Surprised if they allow private cars to drive around in the depot given health and safety etc, but there's really nowhere else suitable around there unless they are going to tarmac the grassed area which I can't see going down well.

(25 Jan 2024, 7:16 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I saw that and wondered are they actually going to use the depot land for the car parking?  Surprised if they allow private cars to drive around in the depot given health and safety etc, but there's really nowhere else suitable around there unless they are going to tarmac the grassed area which I can't see going down well.

Ignoring that part a little bit…if we think the Angel park and ride is doomed to failure…Slatyford…seriously?! 

We’re expecting sensible car drivers to park in the arse end of the West End and board a bus that at best estimates will be at least ten minutes slower than just staying in your car and parking in the city

Very much like BSIP…a monumental waste of funding

(25 Jan 2024, 11:04 pm)Ambassador wrote Ignoring that part a little bit…if we think the Angel park and ride is doomed to failure…Slatyford…seriously?! 

We’re expecting sensible car drivers to park in the arse end of the West End and board a bus that at best estimates will be at least ten minutes slower than just staying in your car and parking in the city

Very much like BSIP…a monumental waste of funding

Imagine they will be hoping noone uses it because if it is well used they will either need to remodel the whole road system or cause gridlock.  The junction at the end of Slatyford Lane is shit, especially when something is trying to turn right (same as turning right out of Netherby - so 36 is gonna be a right pain at the end of the route) - that's before they then create a potential new stream of cars using the route.

(25 Jan 2024, 11:04 pm)Ambassador wrote Ignoring that part a little bit…if we think the Angel park and ride is doomed to failure…Slatyford…seriously?! 

We’re expecting sensible car drivers to park in the arse end of the West End and board a bus that at best estimates will be at least ten minutes slower than just staying in your car and parking in the city

Very much like BSIP…a monumental waste of funding

Silly location isn't it? I'm not sure who it's for considering traffic from the A69 is directed to Newcastle via Scotswood Road and traffic from the North via Ponteland Road.

Are they really expecting people from the likes of Westerhope to drive to Slatyford to get on the 71, when they could use the same bus outside their front door?

Where bout's is this supposed to be? My mate lives on pooley road.... near there?

Storx - i don't think its aimed at those who already get the bus from outside there door mate!

(27 Jan 2024, 1:28 pm)Rob44 wrote Storx - i don't think its aimed at those who already get the bus from outside there door mate!

Think you misread it, I meant like most the cars travelling beyond there to Newcastle will be coming from the outer West so they could just catch the same bus they'd get from the P&R from their front door.

I'd be very surprised if there's much A69 traffic heading that way to Newcastle Centre because of the delays at Cowgate and them choosing Scotswood Road or just plowing straight along West Road. They'll be heading towards the Freeman, Gosforth, the ministry and so on.

not sure if i've misread it again as i've got a terrible hangover and am at work BUT if they can catch a bus from outside there door why would they jump in there car to the PANDR and catch the same bus? Surely this is aimed at people who dont want the hassel of parking in newcastle but dont have the option of a bus form outside there door.

Your never going to get some people out of there car, be it using the carrot OR the stick or both methods together.

(28 Jan 2024, 8:30 am)Rob44 wrote not sure if i've misread it again as i've got a terrible hangover and am at work BUT  if they can catch a bus from outside there door why would they jump in there car to the PANDR and catch the same bus? Surely this is aimed at people who dont want the hassel of parking in newcastle but dont have the option of a bus form outside there door. 

Your never going to get some people out of there car, be it using the carrot OR the stick or both methods together.

Yeah you got it right ha, my point was is there's no-one passing the thing though who don't have the bus as they won't be travelling anywhere near it and no-one is going to go on distant drive to get to it as you'd better off going to Kingston Park, Callerton Parkway or the Regent Centre and using the Metro which is quicker and stops pretty much anywhere in the city.

(28 Jan 2024, 10:22 am)Storx wrote Yeah you got it right ha, my point was is there's no-one passing the thing though who don't have the bus as they won't be travelling anywhere near it and no-one is going to go on distant drive to get to it as you'd better off going to Kingston Park, Callerton Parkway or the Regent Centre and using the Metro which is quicker and stops pretty much anywhere in the city.

Ah i see so if someone wanted to use the bus they could just use it from where they live and no bother using car at all.

I suppose it

(28 Jan 2024, 11:18 am)Rob44 wrote Ah i see so if someone wanted to use the bus they could just use it from where they live and no bother using car at all.

I suppose it

Yeah, and if you're coming from the A69 corridor, you might aswell go throw the car at Hexham or Prudhoe and just get the train in all the way, why bother driving for 30 minutes to then get on a bus for 15 minutes when you could drive for 5 minutes (or walk or cycle) and use the train for 40 minutes instead and actually do something productive with the time.

It's one credit of the Northumberland Line as I have a feeling a few people might be tempted to think oh buggar it, I'm hoying the car at Newsham, I'm sick of driving and getting stuck for 15 minutes at Moor Farm or whatever. Similar with Bebside, with people driving from the North of Blyth or even places like Newbiggin since you pass it anyway and it's far enough out it makes sense.

Anyone know if Transport for North East are bidding?

Quite a few other bids have been released.

DARLINGTON TRANSPORT PLAN – DELIVERY REPORT


Tees Valley Combined Authority has teamed up with Arriva & Stagecoach to bid for 62 electric buses - 22 for Arriva Darlington route 2 and Arriva Redcar route 63 as well as 40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot.


TVCA worked with local operators Arriva and Stagecoach and submitted a Tees Valley application in December 2023, whereby Arriva has agreed to fund both the diesel capital cost equivalent, and the 25% match funding requirement for 22 electric vehicles.

These vehicles, and any relevant infrastructure, will be split between their Redcar, and Darlington depots, prioritising service 2 (seven vehicles_ covering Redhall to Cockerton), and service 63 (15 vehicles, covering Middlesbrough to Redcar). The Stagecoach application is for 40 vehicles operating out of their Stockton depot; however, these vehicles are not expected to be deployed on service 6/6A.

Bids have apparently been confirmed:

Transport for North East - bidding with Arriva, Stagecoach and Go North East for 43 EVs - 14 double deck EVs for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46, 7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East routes 58 and X66 and 18 single deck EVs for Stagecoach routes 30/31/36

Tees Valley Combined Authority - bidding with Arriva & Stagecoach to bid for 62 EVs - 22 for Arriva Darlington route 2 and Arriva Redcar route 63 as well as 40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot (Nearly the entire allocation i believe)

(05 Mar 2024, 6:59 pm)Michael wrote Bids have apparently been confirmed:

Transport for North East - bidding with Arriva, Stagecoach and Go North East for 43 EVs - 14 double deck EVs for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46, 7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East routes 58 and X66 and 18 single deck EVs for Stagecoach routes 30/31/36

Tees Valley Combined Authority - bidding with Arriva & Stagecoach to bid for 62 EVs - 22 for Arriva Darlington route 2 and Arriva Redcar route 63 as well as 40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot (Nearly the entire allocation i believe)

43 for GNe yet 7 for the 58 and 4 for the X66. Guess the rest is for the 21 that they have been trying to upgrade electric for a few years now if I remember correctly. Wonder which bus they will settle on. Wonder if all 3 of the buses they trialed will go on the 21

I think you've misread that as GNE are not getting 43. The 21 already won a bid for 18? electric buses last year I think

(05 Mar 2024, 7:17 pm)Aaron21 wrote 43 for GNe yet 7 for the 58 and 4 for the X66. Guess the rest is for the 21 that they have been trying to upgrade electric for a few years now if I remember correctly. Wonder which bus they will settle on. Wonder if all 3 of the buses they trialed will go on the 21

43 = 

14 ANE 
7 and 4 GNE
18 SNE

Dose mean that transport for North East and tees Valley win then?

(06 Mar 2024, 2:57 am)Glen1974 wrote Dose mean that transport for North East and tees Valley win then?

Nope, there's quite a few bids from other areas, be lucky if we get both or either one tbh.

Thanks you for info mate

(05 Mar 2024, 6:59 pm)Michael wrote Bids have apparently been confirmed:

Transport for North East - bidding with Arriva, Stagecoach and Go North East for 43 EVs - 14 double deck EVs for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46, 7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East routes 58 and X66 and 18 single deck EVs for Stagecoach routes 30/31/36

Tees Valley Combined Authority - bidding with Arriva & Stagecoach to bid for 62 EVs - 22 for Arriva Darlington route 2 and Arriva Redcar route 63 as well as 40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot (Nearly the entire allocation i believe)

Results are in and...


Both Transport for North East and Tees Valley Combined Authority WON.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...ounts#fn:1


Edit: you'll have to scroll to the top of the page.