(08 Apr 2024, 4:13 pm)Ambassador wrote Liberal use of the word #betterbuses

Indeed, they seem to be taking the Conservative approach of just straight up lying and hoping that the public are too thick to notice. 

I don't see a single way in which, to the public, these can be better than the B5LHs? They're older for a start, and the most a refurb is going to do is take them to the same level as the Volvo's they replaced. Even if they do get better seats installed, they're still ADL so the suspension is non-existant compared to a Volvo.

Last 10 years GNE have gone to the dogs, quality out the window, services axed/chopped beyond recognition, and an addiction to using second hand tat

(08 Apr 2024, 5:39 pm)mb134 wrote Indeed, they seem to be taking the Conservative approach of just straight up lying and hoping that the public are too thick to notice. 

I don't see a single way in which, to the public, these can be better than the B5LHs? They're older for a start, and the most a refurb is going to do is take them to the same level as the Volvo's they replaced. Even if they do get better seats installed, they're still ADL so the suspension is non-existant compared to a Volvo.

I'm sure customers will see these as an upgrade. As the B5LHs became so unreliable over the last year or two and with those taken off, the service has been getting whatever has been spare which most of the time has been older vehicles, without the fancy adons such as Wi-Fi or USBs or even NSA. So I'm sure customers will be delighted to have these "better" vehicles that will turn up and have the extra features back onboard

(08 Apr 2024, 6:18 pm)Blockybus wrote I'm sure customers will see these as an upgrade. As the B5LHs became so unreliable over the last year or two and with those taken off, the service has been getting whatever has been spare which most of the time has been older vehicles, without the fancy adons such as Wi-Fi or USBs or even NSA. So I'm sure customers will be delighted to have these "better" vehicles that will turn up and have the extra features back onboard

Personally I'd rather have a 18 year old B9TL over a 13 year old Enviro 400.

Enviro 400's are great city buses but anything longer they're grim. Rattles, poor suspension as already mentioned and generally an unpleasant travelling experience. Not to mention these are in London spec bar the seats reupholstered and we don't even know if they're replaced as the GoAhead London seats are also superior to Esteban Civic's.

The DB300's at Blyth are superior to the Enviro 400's in every way imaginable even known some are 5 years older than the newest Enviro 400's.

The vast majority of people couldn't give a toss about WiFi, USB or NSA's.

(08 Apr 2024, 6:38 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd rather have a 18 year old B9TL over a 13 year old Enviro 400.

Enviro 400's are great city buses but anything longer they're grim. Rattles, poor suspension as already mentioned and generally an unpleasant travelling experience. Not to mention these are in London spec bar the seats reupholstered and we don't even know if they're replaced as the GoAhead London seats are also superior to Esteban Civic's.

The DB300's at Blyth are superior to the Enviro 400's in every way imaginable even known some are 5 years older than the newest Enviro 400's.

The vast majority of people couldn't give a toss about WiFi, USB or NSA's.

I agree with you about the WiFi, USB etc. It was interesting the other night on one of the 57 plate Arriva Sapphire buses where a group of people were talking about how nice they were because they were so spacious and lots of seats. Personally I think the old Enviro 400s win with the public over the DB300 for that reason.

In other words, the main thing passengers want apart from the bus actually turning up is to not have to sit next to somebody, and if they do the seats be big enough so you're not on their knee.

(08 Apr 2024, 6:18 pm)Blockybus wrote I'm sure customers will see these as an upgrade. As the B5LHs became so unreliable over the last year or two and with those taken off, the service has been getting whatever has been spare which most of the time has been older vehicles, without the fancy adons such as Wi-Fi or USBs or even NSA. So I'm sure customers will be delighted to have these "better" vehicles that will turn up and have the extra features back onboard

The seating is confirmed to not have been upgraded to match the B5LHs, so it's literally some USB chargers and some new seat coverings onto 13 year old ex-London E400 rattle boxes? I take it all back, I'm sure customers will be thrilled.

All the ex-london buses ive been on are absolutely shocking.

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https://x.com/liamhall24/status/1777410323437265331 confirms tthey will have USBs, I hope the Drifters get them when they get repainted later this year (hopefully in the same livery)

It will be intresting if the Durham Diamond Livery has changed

(08 Apr 2024, 6:52 pm)Shrek wrote I agree with you about the WiFi, USB etc. It was interesting the other night on one of the 57 plate Arriva Sapphire buses where a group of people were talking about how nice they were because they were so spacious and lots of seats. Personally I think the old Enviro 400s win with the public over the DB300 for that reason.

In other words, the main thing passengers want apart from the bus actually turning up is to not have to sit next to somebody, and if they do the seats be big enough so you're not on their knee.

Surprised at that. Isn't the seating about the same on both of them (without counting). Generally whenever I come across discussions people generally like the Gemini 2 over an Enviro 400 like but obviously some will have different opinions. I've always found the legroom on Enviro 400's, upstairs at least, to be pretty poor, especially the ones with Stagecoach.

Mind shame things went off a cliff with the Streetdeck which is awful.

Talking about refurbishments, Arriva get a lot of stick, but the refurbs of the ex London buses are generally fantastic, not like the crap above. The B7TL's Gemini 1's you could barely tell the difference between one of those and the much newer DB300's. It's a shame we don't see it more often.

(08 Apr 2024, 2:49 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote https://twitter.com/garyhunter91/status/...7980579112

Looks like the seats have been retrimmed, but nothing else

Shame they couldn’t of sourced some high back seats at least, not like all the new driver training streetlites have lovely new seats (appreciate they may not be compatible)

(08 Apr 2024, 6:12 pm)V514DFT wrote Last 10 years GNE have gone to the dogs, quality out the window, services axed/chopped beyond recognition, and an addiction to using second hand tat

10 years?! 

Happened well before then. 
It's been all fur coat and no knickers. Pulled the wool over most fanboys eyes for years. 
2006 was the tipping point for many. 

Now the fur coat has gone (probably asset stripped and sent to another division), people are really seeing what it's like.

(08 Apr 2024, 7:45 pm)Storx wrote Surprised at that. Isn't the seating about the same on both of them (without counting). Generally whenever I come across discussions people generally like the Gemini 2 over an Enviro 400 like but obviously some will have different opinions. I've always found the legroom on Enviro 400's, upstairs at least, to be pretty poor, especially the ones with Stagecoach.

Mind shame things went off a cliff with the Streetdeck which is awful.

Talking about refurbishments, Arriva get a lot of stick, but the refurbs of the ex London buses are generally fantastic, not like the crap above. The B7TL's Gemini 1's you could barely tell the difference between one of those and the much newer DB300's. It's a shame we don't see it more often.

I guess the 57 reg ones are the full size ones which make a difference. They definitely seem more spacious and less claustrophobic than the DB300 to me. I might be wrong though, maybe the conversation last night has me imagining it. 

You're right about the refurbishments though. The GNE enviros look terrible with the purple lighting and poor seating. A little bit of work on refurbishing the interior will have the majority of passengers not realising it's second hand.

(08 Apr 2024, 4:13 pm)Ambassador wrote Liberal use of the word #betterbuses

Indeed, older I think than the hybrids that were the last branded fleet, which in turn had replaced markedly younger vehicles themselves.  Maybe GNE have a different definition of "better" than passengers.  Would explain a lot. #betterthannever

(08 Apr 2024, 10:11 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Indeed, older I think than the hybrids that were the last branded fleet, which in turn had replaced markedly younger vehicles themselves.  Maybe GNE have a different definition of "better" than passengers.  Would explain a lot. #betterthannever

I suppose as they trundle up a hill at 15mph, passengers will be thankful for the usb charging to keep their phones alive

But when your flagship 21 route has 20 year old buses running on it, I doubt there’s much hope for other services! 

All this decay in standards seems to have kicked in when Riverside took over engineering for the Chester routes

(08 Apr 2024, 10:59 pm)Ambassador wrote I suppose as they trundle up a hill at 15mph, passengers will be thankful for the usb charging to keep their phones alive

But when your flagship 21 route has 20 year old buses running on it, I doubt there’s much hope for other services! 

All this decay in standards seems to have kicked in when Riverside took over engineering for the Chester routes

I counted 6x 21 branded vehicles parked up at Riverside at midday.

(08 Apr 2024, 11:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote I counted 6x 21 branded vehicles parked up at Riverside at midday.

Those pesky wing mirrors, amazed they weren’t trundling the wing mirror safe streets of the 51 route

(08 Apr 2024, 11:20 pm)Ambassador wrote Those pesky wing mirrors, amazed they weren’t trundling the wing mirror safe streets of the 51 route

It looked like one had a tow back to the depot. 

Guessing there hadn't been any spare wing mirrors kicking around and they erred on the side of caution.

(08 Apr 2024, 11:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote I counted 6x 21 branded vehicles parked up at Riverside at midday.

6317 - Not sure whats up with that one, one of the better ones out of the rest
6319 - Broke down at Bishop yesterday morning
6320 - Dead Engine
6323 - Dead Engine
6326 - Local Only
6330 - Schools Only

6323 is the one that was towed in, been in the same spot since 23rd March

A testement to the outstanding maintenance facilities at Riverside

Do passengers really care what age there bus is or how padded the seats are. They are just happy the bus turns up TBH., I had the joy of brand new buses on the 44 in my younger days 251-258 nurthumbria then when arriva took over and the 44 reverted to newcastle to dinnington only we got loads of rubbish on the route, most ex London stack from what i recall. Did i stop using the bus because of it???

And dont get me started on the rubbish the was branded for bemish on the 28/28a/28b!!!

(09 Apr 2024, 11:26 am)Rob44 wrote Do passengers really care what age there bus is  or how padded the seats are.  They are just happy the bus turns up TBH.,  I had the joy of brand new buses on the 44 in my younger days 251-258 nurthumbria then when arriva took over and the 44 reverted to newcastle to dinnington only we got loads of rubbish on the route, most ex London stack from what i recall.  Did i stop using the bus because of it???

And dont get me started on the rubbish the was branded for bemish on the 28/28a/28b!!!

Passengers who have no choice don't but those who do, do. Considering GNE is making a loss and has lost hundreds of passengers post COVID because of a whole lot of excuses suggests people are using alternative measures. 

They probably should be doing stuff to attract people on board. Unrefurbished stock cascaded from London isn't the way to do that. 

Short city buses for 5 minutes you can get away with it, 40 minute+ buses like the 16/16A is a whole different kettle of fish.

Trains generally get this right as stuff like HST's and Class 158's are over 40 year old now but because of decent refurbs over the years no-one can tell otherwise. If they were in their British Railway interior still then people might say otherwise.

Is the number of seats the same as the dual door ones just a different layout downstairs, or are extra seats added/removed?

(09 Apr 2024, 12:20 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote Is the number of seats the same as the dual door ones just a different layout downstairs, or are extra seats added/removed?

I'd imagine extra seats where centre door would have been

(09 Apr 2024, 12:20 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote Is the number of seats the same as the dual door ones just a different layout downstairs, or are extra seats added/removed?

Gain 4 seats, if I'm right.

Usually they move the 4 seats which are immediately on the right when you enter a London bus back into the door space, the wheel chair bay then goes there and then it gains 4 seats where the London bus wheel chair bay is.

Wheelchairs, board by the middle door on London buses so they need to move stuff around for DDA.

(09 Apr 2024, 11:26 am)Rob44 wrote Do passengers really care what age there bus is  or how padded the seats are.  They are just happy the bus turns up TBH.,  I had the joy of brand new buses on the 44 in my younger days 251-258 nurthumbria then when arriva took over and the 44 reverted to newcastle to dinnington only we got loads of rubbish on the route, most ex London stack from what i recall.  Did i stop using the bus because of it???

And dont get me started on the rubbish the was branded for bemish on the 28/28a/28b!!!

Without repeating storx, some will and some won't. 
It will depend on how flexible they are with their own transport and what their specific needs are. 

I know for a fact Mrs C wouldn't touch a bus for a commute if a weekend experience involved a trip out on a 20 year old Omnidekka.

(09 Apr 2024, 11:03 am)NL62WVW wrote 6317 - Not sure whats up with that one, one of the better ones out of the rest
6319 - Broke down at Bishop yesterday morning
6320 - Dead Engine
6323 - Dead Engine
6326 - Local Only
6330 - Schools Only

6323 is the one that was towed in, been in the same spot since 23rd March

A testement to the outstanding maintenance facilities at Riverside

Attached the latest ppkm uplifts.
At first glance, I wonder if they're better off using the older E400's.

2 E400 Durham Diamonds, hiding behind some E200s at Consett tonight.

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(10 Apr 2024, 5:03 pm)Tiger5105 wrote 2 E400 Durham Diamonds, hiding behind some E200s at Consett tonight.

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Looking forward to seeing these!

(10 Apr 2024, 5:03 pm)Tiger5105 wrote 2 E400 Durham Diamonds, hiding behind some E200s at Consett tonight.

Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk

Why haven’t they painted between the windows black!?

(10 Apr 2024, 7:19 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Why haven’t they painted between the windows black!?

Because they’ve decided to paint them blue

(10 Apr 2024, 7:19 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Why haven’t they painted between the windows black!?

A change in personnel is the likely answer.

It was my personal preference for that to be black on an E400, but most engineers would see this as an unnecessary thing to do as it adds an extra day to the painting process.

I suspect engineers have a much louder voice these days and there will be a greater focus upon lean engineering, which is also why StreetDecks run on the 51/52 and 93/94 daily (GNE staff have openly confirmed on public Facebook forums that the Angel StreetDecks are being “kept local” to reduce lost mileage, as opposed to repairing the faults so they can be allocated to the routes for which they were purchased).


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(10 Apr 2024, 9:13 pm)Dan wrote A change in personnel is the likely answer.

It was my personal preference for that to be black on an E400, but most engineers would see this as an unnecessary thing to do as it adds an extra day to the painting process.

I suspect engineers have a much louder voice these days and there will be a greater focus upon lean engineering, which is also why StreetDecks run on the 51/52 and 93/94 daily (GNE staff have openly confirmed on public Facebook forums that the Angel StreetDecks are being “kept local” to reduce lost mileage, as opposed to repairing the faults so they can be allocated to the routes for which they were purchased).


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Seems sensible to opt for a leaner approach cutting out cosmetic steps that add time and cost to processes unneccessarily - arguably should never have been wasting time and money on that while cutting services etc ... but if only they were using the resource released as a result to address some of the more serious issues affecting the fleet, including vehicles looking in a shocking state (i.e. much worse than not just not having black window trims)