(25 Jul 2024, 7:39 am)Mark66t wrote Some other depot buses have been off road a lot longer Darlington  1406 31th may

All depots will have vehicles VOR for long periods of time, it's inevitable. 

What is being pointed out is that Redcar consistently have a large amount of vehicles VOR, and have failed to rectify this over a significant number of years. In this situation, they seem to be having issues with vehicle types that other depots operate near faultlessly. 

I notice the E400s are all back out today, but they're also unable to get the B9s out. 7401 has been off for months, and 7404/5 have been off for a fortnight each. 

It's an issue that goes back years, and no other depot in the company seems to have the same issues. Blyth were pretty bad for a bit, I believe with a large amount of major unit failures, but they appear to have sorted themselves out now.

(25 Jul 2024, 11:24 am)IStorx wrote Two wrongs don't make a right though.

If people live in northrumbria  why does it actually bother people who  don't live down here  all this site for its stupid petty comment's slaging of depots which needs to stop   it's becoming a right joke

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(25 Jul 2024, 1:12 pm)PH - BQA wrote All depots will have vehicles VOR for long periods of time, it's inevitable. 

What is being pointed out is that Redcar consistently have a large amount of vehicles VOR, and have failed to rectify this over a significant number of years. In this situation, they seem to be having issues with vehicle types that other depots operate near faultlessly. 

I notice the E400s are all back out today, but they're also unable to get the B9s out. 7401 has been off for months, and 7404/5 have been off for a fortnight each. 

It's an issue that goes back years, and no other depot in the company seems to have the same issues. Blyth were pretty bad for a bit, I believe with a large amount of major unit failures, but they appear to have sorted themselves out now.

Incorrect  there is b9 out

4712s partition between the front seat and the door decided to smash in Grangetown on the 62 at about 13:00.

(25 Jul 2024, 2:07 pm)Mark66t wrote If people live in northrumbria  why does it actually bother people who  don't live down here  all this site for its stupid petty comment's slaging of depots which needs to stop   it's becoming a right joke

People are literally just pointing out the constant issues a specific depot have with keeping vehicles on the road, which has had an ongoing impact on both the service delivery at other depots and customer experience on their own routes. 

(25 Jul 2024, 2:07 pm)Mark66t wrote Incorrect  there is b9 out

Obviously, but the post you're replying to clearly identifies 3 specific examples which aren't out. One of which has barely seen service for the past year.

(24 Jul 2024, 10:29 pm)Ryland wrote And is that the same for 7879

How about 7404 and 5 

7610 still hasn't been out since June 

1534 not been out since 17th 

2863 15th 
1445 9th 
1438 20th 
.long term vor 7401 hasn't moved much and still awaiting repair. 

Yet redcars pulsars now are suffering with constant breakdowns and failures. 

For once the temsa avenues are the only decent buses redcar have to offer.

They managed to get a Solo out on the 81 though. 
That must have taken some doing.

(25 Jul 2024, 7:08 pm)PH - BQA wrote People are literally just pointing out the constant issues a specific depot have with keeping vehicles on the road, which has had an ongoing impact on both the service delivery at other depots and customer experience on their own routes. 


Obviously, but the post you're replying to clearly identifies 3 specific examples which aren't out. One of which has barely seen service for the past year.

7401 hasn’t seen service since last May or so… and even then it only managed Boro to Guisborough on an x94… think it’s been off since Oct 22 realistically


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A post I spotted on Facebook earlier suggests that the Citatos from Aylesbury/High Wycombe are heading to Redcar. Another post seems to suggest they're not reliable, so they should fit in well from what I've read in this thread.

(27 Jul 2024, 11:31 pm)Shrek wrote A post I spotted on Facebook earlier suggests that the Citatos from Aylesbury/High Wycombe are heading to Redcar. Another post seems to suggest they're not reliable, so they should fit in well from what I've read in this thread.

It probably doesn’t help that they’re coming from another equivalent depot in Wycombe… but I think it’s pretty much confirmed that some are heading to the NE. Not sure which depot(s) they’ll be going to though!


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(28 Jul 2024, 2:03 am)tyresmoke wrote It probably doesn’t help that they’re coming from another equivalent depot in Wycombe… but I think it’s pretty much confirmed that some are heading to the NE. Not sure which depot(s) they’ll be going to though!


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Did redcar have one many years ago on trial and it didn't go well?

(27 Jul 2024, 11:31 pm)Shrek wrote A post I spotted on Facebook earlier suggests that the Citatos from Aylesbury/High Wycombe are heading to Redcar. Another post seems to suggest they're not reliable, so they should fit in well from what I've read in this thread.

Temsa replacement I guess, believe there's 22 of them and there's 23 Temsa's so if they all turned up then it would get shot of them. 

They can't be any worse than them as they sound like a maintenance nightmare lately (Temsa).

Quite an upgrade for the 63 aswell until they get their electrics in the future.

(28 Jul 2024, 8:21 am)Storx wrote Temsa replacement I guess, believe there's 22 of them and there's 23 Temsa's so if they all turned up then it would get shot of them. 

They can't be any worse than them as they sound like a maintenance nightmare lately (Temsa).

Quite an upgrade for the 63 aswell until they get their electrics in the future.

When are the Citaros turning up in the North East? Is this week going to be the last week for all 23 Temsas?

(28 Jul 2024, 8:21 am)Storx wrote Temsa replacement I guess, believe there's 22 of them and there's 23 Temsa's so if they all turned up then it would get shot of them. 

They can't be any worse than them as they sound like a maintenance nightmare lately (Temsa).

Quite an upgrade for the 63 aswell until they get their electrics in the future.

Incorrect - from what I understand from internal sources, yes there are Citaros coming for the North East fleet following the depot closures down south this weekend. But there aren't Temsa replacements (those plans are already in place) and, as far as a separate internal source, they are not for the front line service fleet.......

(28 Jul 2024, 9:43 am)Kuyoyo wrote Incorrect - from what I understand from internal sources, yes there are Citaros coming for the North East fleet following the depot closures down south this weekend. But there aren't Temsa replacements (those plans are already in place) and, as far as a separate internal source, they are not for the front line service fleet.......

So are they going to be in public service or just stored out of use

(28 Jul 2024, 9:57 am)Ryland wrote So are they going to be in public service or just stored out of use

They have a role - but it won't be for public service. And unlikely to be seen in Redcar depot other than maybe once a week - that may give a hint.

Understand the Temsa replacements will come early next year when Merseyside get their new vehicles as well as when Wythenshawe depot moves to Metroline with the Bee Network.

(28 Jul 2024, 10:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote They have a role - but it won't be for public service. And unlikely to be seen in Redcar depot other than maybe once a week - that may give a hint.

Understand the Temsa replacements will come early next year when Merseyside get their new vehicles as well as when Wythenshawe depot moves to Metroline with the Bee Network.

No doubt then the temsa replacement will be more pulsar older than the tesma. 

Is there any plans for the solos any upgrades

(25 Jul 2024, 10:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote They managed to get a Solo out on the 81 though. 
That must have taken some doing.

(28 Jul 2024, 10:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote They have a role - but it won't be for public service. And unlikely to be seen in Redcar depot other than maybe once a week - that may give a hint.

Understand the Temsa replacements will come early next year when Merseyside get their new vehicles as well as when Wythenshawe depot moves to Metroline with the Bee Network.

I been told Temsas will be replaced by pulsars In 2025

(28 Jul 2024, 9:43 am)Kuyoyo wrote Incorrect - from what I understand from internal sources, yes there are Citaros coming for the North East fleet following the depot closures down south this weekend. But there aren't Temsa replacements (those plans are already in place) and, as far as a separate internal source, they are not for the front line service fleet.......

That makes sense, had a feeling it would be either these or those. 

Reading through the lines I'm guessing they're going to become the driver training fleet?

It will be interesting to see what happens to the E400's, Pulsars, Versa's and WF Lites at them 2 depots and where they end up. I imagine they will be dispersing them around to other Arriva Depots accordingly. Time will tell. It will be nice to see some Citaros though in the North East. Must say according to peoples opinions, they're apparently as bad as the Temsa's. But in my opinion the Temsas are the second best investment Arriva North East have made after the 1st best being Pulsars

(28 Jul 2024, 12:37 pm)Mike_98 wrote It will be interesting to see what happens to the E400's, Pulsars, Versa's and WF Lites at them 2 depots and where they end up. I imagine they will be dispersing them around to other Arriva Depots accordingly. Time will tell. It will be nice to see some Citaros though in the North East. Must say according to peoples opinions, they're apparently as bad as the Temsa's. But in my opinion the Temsas are the second best investment Arriva North East have made after the 1st best being Pulsars

Can't say I agree on the Temsa's mind. Imo they're up there with the worst, they're superior to the similar aged Pulsars in pretty much every way possible so they might have aswell just bought more Pulsars. 

If we're talking about Arriva as a whole then Renowns, Cadets, Commanders, MPD's, Omnicities, Gemini 2's and Enviro 400's all blow them out the window imo. 

The Temsa's are up there with the Prestiges and Ikarus (these are the worst) in terms of good vehicles imo.

I'd also stick the Optare Tempos in that list as well, Awful things, worst things Yorkshire has ever bought new anyway. Didn't know why they didn't buy Pulsars instead. You lot up in the north east must have hated the tempos so much we got lumbered back with them,about a year later!

(28 Jul 2024, 3:59 pm)davao123 wrote I'd also stick the Optare Tempos in that list as well, Awful things, worst things Yorkshire has ever bought new anyway. Didn't know why they didn't buy Pulsars instead. You lot up in the north east must have hated the tempos so much we got lumbered back with them,about a year later!

In fairness the tempos only went to Durham so no other depot saw use of them

(28 Jul 2024, 4:02 pm)Ryland wrote In fairness the tempos only went to Durham so no other depot saw use of them

Stockton trialled one on service 17 and was rejected as they wouldn’t go round Ingleby Tesco I seem to recall


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(28 Jul 2024, 4:02 pm)Ryland wrote In fairness the tempos only went to Durham so no other depot saw use of them

Perhaps the other depots in NE weren't suitable for them as the tempos had extremely poor steering lock and in Yorkshire, they tried to send them to Selby just before covid, but that didn't work out, as they had issues with them in the bus station. Even at Wakefield now, I think they're still restricted on some routes.

Worst buses we have had since the ghastly Plaxton Prestige.

(28 Jul 2024, 1:29 pm)Storx wrote The Temsa's are up there with the Prestiges and Ikarus (these are the worst) in terms of good vehicles imo.

NE wise, the 57-plate DB250s have to go down as one of the worst purchases. 

Money pits from the start, reportedly they all had new gearboxes within the first few years. All were withdrawn from service after, at most, 13 years with 7453 only lasting 11 and a bit - and they were replaced by ex-London B7TLs which were around 6 years older. The E400s purchased at the same time are still going, 3 years after 7455 finally gave up.

Of course they were great on their day, but had huge reliability issues and cost a bomb to keep going.

Still having nightmares from those Tempos. Hateful machines to drive (when they actually worked).

As for the Citaro's, I've only ever driven the GNE examples and they were equally hateful (better steering lock though) - the Pulsar is far superior (and probably more reliable too and for the accountants, probably better on fuel). Don't Citaros and Tempos use the same engine?

With regards to the 57 plate DB250's, haven't other Arriva divisions had more use out of theirs than the North East?

(28 Jul 2024, 5:10 pm)morritt89 wrote Still having nightmares from those Tempos. Hateful machines to drive (when they actually worked). 

As for the Citaro's, I've only ever driven the GNE examples and they were equally hateful (better steering lock though) - the Pulsar is far superior (and probably more reliable too and for the accountants, probably better on fuel). Don't Citaros and Tempos use the same engine?

With regards to the 57 plate DB250's, haven't other Arriva divisions had more use out of theirs than the North East?

Some of the southern divisions got longer out of theirs, Arriva Kent & Surrey just withdrew the last one standing within the group a few weeks back (6238 / YJ57BKE) and had some examples from around 2002 in use around Luton until fairly recently. Yorkshire didn't seem to do much better than us with their 06 plate examples, bowing out shortly after ours did, although got a while out of a 52 plate example.

Think it may be the same engine as a Citaro in the Tempos, or at very least they're Merc engines. The bottom part of Bishop Auckland Bus Station was likely another awkward one with the tight steering lock.

(28 Jul 2024, 6:00 pm)Jimmi wrote Some of the southern divisions got longer out of theirs, Arriva Kent & Surrey just withdrew the last one standing within the group a few weeks back (6238 / YJ57BKE) and had some examples from around 2002 in use around Luton until fairly recently. Yorkshire didn't seem to do much better than us with their 06 plate examples, bowing out shortly after ours did, although got a while out of a 52 plate example.

Think it may be the same engine as a Citaro in the Tempos, or at very least they're Merc engines. The bottom part of Bishop Auckland Bus Station was likely another awkward one with the tight steering lock.

1621 was the last lowlander at Yorkshire to get withdrawn, 52 plates, and was originally part of a batch that came from the midlands. The lowlanders spent their final days at Castleford and Heckmondwike depot, Lowlanders was intended for school runs at Castleford, but they was having problems with them, so e400mmcs or e400s had to cover them on schools, while lowlanders went out on normal service. But when the school runs got cut. Lowlanders was no longer needed, so got withdrawn.  1621 was the best one imo.

(28 Jul 2024, 4:45 pm)PH - BQA wrote NE wise, the 57-plate DB250s have to go down as one of the worst purchases. 

Money pits from the start, reportedly they all had new gearboxes within the first few years. All were withdrawn from service after, at most, 13 years with 7453 only lasting 11 and a bit - and they were replaced by ex-London B7TLs which were around 6 years older. The E400s purchased at the same time are still going, 3 years after 7455 finally gave up.

Of course they were great on their day, but had huge reliability issues and cost a bomb to keep going.

It's funny, I was thinking about them but the earlier batch were generally alright, ignoring the Urban 90's. God knows what on earth happened to them as newer batches generally get better but they couldn't be any further away.

Mind speaking of East Lancs / Optare (Post 2008) / Darwin / Switch or whatever name they're going for this week aren't exactly the gleaming success story and generally produce crap. The Cityzens at Blyth weren't exactly the greatest things either and nor are some of the Solo's SR's floating around with GNE either.

The Dennis Tridents need a mention aswell as they were awful, forgot about them tbh.

1572 tracking on the 62

(31 Jul 2024, 10:53 am)Ryland wrote 1572 tracking on the 62

Back at Stockton  I was on it and it was worst for ware to  be honest  struggling down Trunk Road