Durham are due some pre-loved Enviro 400 MMCs… have heard these are 16 plates from Kent, which would make sense given Gillingham are currently taking delivery of new ones. This will be what sees off the B7s.

Unsure on the E300s… only other new vehicles mentioned are the Evora’s for Redcar but I understand they’re after a number of Pulsars to be cascaded in to replace the remaining Temsas so this could be what kills the E300s too. Liverpool being due a significant number of Evora’s (76, inc the 18 older ones from Luton) I understand should see off a number of old Pulsars in theory…

As for Whitby… the Park & Ride should be due newer vehicles (2 B9s?) this year as 7609/10 will be outside of the 15 year age range for the contract. (I understand they have special dispensation to use 2841 following bridge gate). This would suggest they’ll need some extra deckers for the X94s next year.

The X66/7 is jointly run by Stockton & Darlington and I agree it would be a good home for some Evora’s… but they’re very much like a Pulsar and be well suited to both local and interurban services!


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(21 Sep 2024, 7:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote Durham are due some pre-loved Enviro 400 MMCs… have heard these are 16 plates from Kent, which would make sense given Gillingham are currently taking delivery of new ones. This will be what sees off the B7s.

Unsure on the E300s… only other new vehicles mentioned are the Evora’s for Redcar but I understand they’re after a number of Pulsars to be cascaded in to replace the remaining Temsas so this could be what kills the E300s too. Liverpool being due a significant number of Evora’s (76, inc the 18 older ones from Luton) I understand should see off a number of old Pulsars in theory…

As for Whitby… the Park & Ride should be due newer vehicles (2 B9s?) this year as 7609/10 will be outside of the 15 year age range for the contract. (I understand they have special dispensation to use 2841 following bridge gate). This would suggest they’ll need some extra deckers for the X94s next year.

The X66/7 is jointly run by Stockton & Darlington and I agree it would be a good home for some Evora’s… but they’re very much like a Pulsar and be well suited to both local and interurban services!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Must say you'd think it would make more sense to send the MMC's to Ashington and send their E400's to Durham instead to try and get some fleet continuity around the depots.

I understand the engineering departments are struggling lately, but surely it would be easier for them to not have numerous microfleets everywhere like right now. Similar with the 10.8m Streetlites currently being split and Ashington having both Streetlites and Pulsars.

Mind hopefully when the P&R ends, 7609/10 can be send home to Blyth and give them some more deckers which they're absolutely desperate for lately since the rest of them are struggling lately.

(21 Sep 2024, 8:40 pm)Storx wrote Must say you'd think it would make more sense to send the MMC's to Ashington and send their E400's to Durham instead to try and get some fleet continuity around the depots.

I understand the engineering departments are struggling lately, but surely it would be easier for them to not have numerous microfleets everywhere like right now. Similar with the 10.8m Streetlites currently being split and Ashington having both Streetlites and Pulsars.

Mind hopefully when the P&R ends, 7609/10 can be send home to Blyth and give them some more deckers which they're absolutely desperate for lately since the rest of them are struggling lately.

And I'm all honesty the struggle bot 7609&10 had this year was ridiculous. So some newerish vehicles on the park and ride would work. Giving that they are now approaching 15 years old. Along with the majority if the arrvia north's east fleet.

(21 Sep 2024, 8:46 pm)Ryland wrote And I'm all honesty the struggle bot 7609&10 had this year was ridiculous. So some newerish vehicles on the park and ride would work. Giving that they are now approaching 15 years old. Along with the majority if the arrvia north's east fleet.

Aye, they'll probably do better with them at Blyth aswell since they're used to them. It's ridiculous really the number of different types of buses Redcar have to deal with considering the PVR is so low.

Temsa, Pulsar, Streetlite (now gone bar loans), Centro, Solo, Gemini 2, E400 MMC, B9TL

Just silly really.

(21 Sep 2024, 9:02 pm)Storx wrote Aye, they'll probably do better with them at Blyth aswell since they're used to them. It's ridiculous really the number of different types of buses Redcar have to deal with considering the PVR is so low.

Temsa, Pulsar, Streetlite (now gone bar loans), Centro, Solo, Gemini 2, E400 MMC, B9TL

Just silly really.

Scrap the Solo's, centro and temsa. Swap the 2 Gemini 2 for 17 plate e400mmc and swap all 6 b9s for 72 plates e400 mmc.

Interim spare Pulsars until the envora come. 
New solos displacing the older ones. Seen posts suggesting that some 63 plate one are on the way. 

Maybe order some e200s mmc full length to see off all the Pulsars

(21 Sep 2024, 9:06 pm)Ryland wrote Scrap the Solo's, centro and temsa. Swap the 2 Gemini 2 for 17 plate e400mmc and swap all 6 b9s for 72 plates e400 mmc.

Interim spare Pulsars until the envora come. 
New solos displacing the older ones. Seen posts suggesting that some 63 plate one are on the way. 

Maybe order some e200s mmc full length to see off all the Pulsars

Problem is you're just moving the issue to Ashington instead there as they'd end up with

B9TL
Streetlite
Pulsar
Solo
Enviro 400
Enviro 400 MMC

Depending on where these rumoured SR's are going aswell, hopefully Whitby as we don't need more crap from Yorkshire Tiger, them aswell.

Northumbria is struggling a bit as it is, they don't need more older buses tbh, especially knackered ones.

Also just thought 7609/10 can't actually come to Blyth without mods which is an issue as I can't see them wanting to spend money on life expired Deckers. Mind they did do the knackered 57 Plate E400's so who knows.

(21 Sep 2024, 9:06 pm)Ryland wrote Scrap the Solo's, centro and temsa. Swap the 2 Gemini 2 for 17 plate e400mmc and swap all 6 b9s for 72 plates e400 mmc.

Could you explain how any of those would be able to handle the Morpeth express services, day in day out of you don't think they're suitable for the X93 or a Park and Ride?

---

(21 Sep 2024, 9:11 pm)Storx wrote Also just thought 7609/10 can't actually come to Blyth without mods which is an issue as I can't see them wanting to spend money on life expired Deckers. Mind they did do the knackered 57 Plate E400's so who knows.

The 57-plate E400s were done at 12-13 years old iirc, so still a decent chunk of life left in them at the time.

(21 Sep 2024, 9:11 pm)Storx wrote Problem is you're just moving the issue to Ashington instead there as they'd end up with

B9TL
Streetlite
Pulsar
Solo
Enviro 400
Enviro 400 MMC

Depending on where these rumoured SR's are going aswell, hopefully Whitby as we don't need more crap from Yorkshire Tiger, them aswell.

Northumbria is struggling a bit as it is, they don't need more older buses tbh, especially knackered ones.

Also just thought 7609/10 can't actually come to Blyth without mods which is an issue as I can't see them wanting to spend money on life expired Deckers. Mind they did do the knackered 57 Plate E400's so who knows.

Solo SR's are rumored to be heading to Durham

(21 Sep 2024, 7:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote Durham are due some pre-loved Enviro 400 MMCs… have heard these are 16 plates from Kent, which would make sense given Gillingham are currently taking delivery of new ones. This will be what sees off the B7s.

Unsure on the E300s… only other new vehicles mentioned are the Evora’s for Redcar but I understand they’re after a number of Pulsars to be cascaded in to replace the remaining Temsas so this could be what kills the E300s too. Liverpool being due a significant number of Evora’s (76, inc the 18 older ones from Luton) I understand should see off a number of old Pulsars in theory…

As for Whitby… the Park & Ride should be due newer vehicles (2 B9s?) this year as 7609/10 will be outside of the 15 year age range for the contract. (I understand they have special dispensation to use 2841 following bridge gate). This would suggest they’ll need some extra deckers for the X94s next year.

The X66/7 is jointly run by Stockton & Darlington and I agree it would be a good home for some Evora’s… but they’re very much like a Pulsar and be well suited to both local and interurban services!


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The E300s at Darlington are apparently only a temporary stop gap and the rumour is they will be gone before Christmas and yeah the X66/7 is jointly run between Darlington and Stockton with 5 boards at Darlington and 2 at Stockton

(21 Sep 2024, 9:21 pm)PH - BQA wrote Could you explain how any of those would be able to handle the Morpeth express services, day in day out of you don't think they're suitable for the X93 or a Park and Ride?

---

The 57-plate E400s were done at 12-13 years old iirc, so still a decent chunk of life left in them at the time.


A post on Facebook is indicating that some 17-plate E400 MMCs from Kent are coming to the North East.

Yeah that's true, feels like 2 minutes ago since they were done but time flies lately. 

(21 Sep 2024, 9:39 pm)davao123 wrote Solo SR's are rumored to be heading to Durham

Interesting, wonder if it might see the remaining E200's heading in the opposite direction.

(21 Sep 2024, 7:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote Durham are due some pre-loved Enviro 400 MMCs… have heard these are 16 plates from Kent, which would make sense given Gillingham are currently taking delivery of new ones. This will be what sees off the B7s.

Unsure on the E300s… only other new vehicles mentioned are the Evora’s for Redcar but I understand they’re after a number of Pulsars to be cascaded in to replace the remaining Temsas so this could be what kills the E300s too. Liverpool being due a significant number of Evora’s (76, inc the 18 older ones from Luton) I understand should see off a number of old Pulsars in theory…

As for Whitby… the Park & Ride should be due newer vehicles (2 B9s?) this year as 7609/10 will be outside of the 15 year age range for the contract. (I understand they have special dispensation to use 2841 following bridge gate). This would suggest they’ll need some extra deckers for the X94s next year.

The X66/7 is jointly run by Stockton & Darlington and I agree it would be a good home for some Evora’s… but they’re very much like a Pulsar and be well suited to both local and interurban services!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn't see this before editing my later post with the E400 MMC bit. The post I saw on Facebook was of a 17-plate example, but they only appear to have 4 of that age and one of those is in a heritage livery, so the 16-plates would make a bit more sense. 

Pulsars in for the E300s would make some sense, but you feel like all it is doing is putting off a large order for another year or so. There are 25 Temsas and 50-odd 09/10 plate Pulsars which you feel will need replacing over the next couple of years, as well as the 6 E300s. If all of those vehicles were being used on relatively mundane work you could understand them putting it off a while longer, but an awful lot are in daily use on express services or the likes of the 1 and 5 at Darlington. 

It's a bit odd that 7401-6 aren't heading to Durham and the ex-Kent MMCs to Redcar for the X93/4 with the other MMCs to standardise it. 7401-6 seem to have seen far better days, I don't think there were many days when 5 (already excluding 7401 for obvious reasons) were all on the X93/4 this year? Outside of that, you'd think 7510-2 will need to be going the distance soon - 7511/2 were absolute dogs by the end at Ashington. 7514-21 can't be far behind either. 

Thought it was! Some investment for new vehicles on them would surely help to continue the growth it has had by all accounts over recent years. Realistically you could probably argue the X12 needs a batch too.

(21 Sep 2024, 10:13 pm)PH - BQA wrote Didn't see this before editing my later post with the E400 MMC bit. The post I saw on Facebook was of a 17-plate example, but they only appear to have 4 of that age and one of those is in a heritage livery, so the 16-plates would make a bit more sense. 

Pulsars in for the E300s would make some sense, but you feel like all it is doing is putting off a large order for another year or so. There are 25 Temsas and 50-odd 09/10 plate Pulsars which you feel will need replacing over the next couple of years, as well as the 6 E300s. If all of those vehicles were being used on relatively mundane work you could understand them putting it off a while longer, but an awful lot are in daily use on express services or the likes of the 1 and 5 at Darlington. 

It's a bit odd that 7401-6 aren't heading to Durham and the ex-Kent MMCs to Redcar for the X93/4 with the other MMCs to standardise it. 7401-6 seem to have seen far better days, I don't think there were many days when 5 (already excluding 7401 for obvious reasons) were all on the X93/4 this year? Outside of that, you'd think 7510-2 will need to be going the distance soon - 7511/2 were absolute dogs by the end at Ashington. 7514-21 can't be far behind either. 

Thought it was! Some investment for new vehicles on them would surely help to continue the growth it has had by all accounts over recent years. Realistically you could probably argue the X12 needs a batch too.

To be fair on that, it would've probably made more sense to send them down to Kent in return for even more MMC's.

Probably a fair trade really, some brand new buses + the B9's to join their existing fleet replacing their B7's, rather than having 2 microfleet of B9's at both areas.

Could've then done something like:

12x MMC to Ashington
2x 72 Plate to Whitby
6x Enviro 400 to Durham
4x Enviro 400 to Blyth with an IOU next Summer to Whitby

Would hopefully help Blyth sort it out it's issues which it's having with the DB300's before next summer if they're not being run to the ground since they've got no choice bar cancelling services. 

If you didn't swap the B9's with Gillingham I'd say still do the same but with the B9's going to Durham instead of Ashington's E400's.

Fully agree the fleet does need to be standardised. Clear investment is needed on the vast majority of redcaf / whitby routes.
72 plates e400 mmc are great on the x93. So ideally another 6 of them would be great to have a fleet of 10.
Perhaps 15 of 17 reg e400s x3 for the park and ride.

B9s to either Durham or another suitable depot.

Solo's to be replaced by either newer solos or a different mini bus.

Temsa to be replaced by Pulsars
Then Pulsars a big investment to be replaced by envoras / the electric buses for 63.

X4 has like 8 buses allocated
X2 services needs re looking at. Could possibility Saltburn to Middlesbrough via redcar hospital or dormanstown
X3 2 buses per hour
64/a could extend back to Redcar INGs farm.
62 extend back to new Marske perhaps via Marske estate to connect to Middlesbrough.

81 to continue to Marske estate possible extensions back to stokesley or great Ayton.

X93 continue as is
X94 summer only between scarborough and whitby
95 stays as is it
96 stays as is it
Possible new town service between whitby and Goathland via ruswarp
P1 and 2 stays as it is with the additional vehicle

(22 Sep 2024, 7:51 am)Ryland wrote Fully agree the fleet does need to be standardised.  Clear investment is needed on the vast majority of redcaf / whitby routes.
72 plates e400 mmc are great on the x93. So ideally another 6 of them would be great to have a fleet of 10.
Perhaps 15 of 17 reg e400s x3 for the park and ride.

B9s to either Durham or another suitable depot.

Solo's to be replaced by either newer solos or a different mini bus.

Temsa to be replaced by Pulsars
Then Pulsars a big investment to be replaced by envoras / the electric buses for 63.

X4 has like 8 buses allocated
X2 services needs re looking at. Could possibility Saltburn to Middlesbrough via redcar hospital or dormanstown
X3 2 buses per hour
64/a could extend back to Redcar INGs farm.
62 extend back to new Marske perhaps via Marske estate to connect to Middlesbrough.

81 to continue to Marske estate possible extensions back to stokesley or great Ayton.

X93 continue as is
X94 summer only between scarborough and whitby
95 stays as is it
96 stays as is it
Possible new town service  between whitby and Goathland via ruswarp
P1 and 2 stays as it is with the additional vehicle

See 10 MMC's for Whitby is complete overkill if you ask me, considering the PVR is only 5 in the winter.

Being sensible and being realistic and expecting no investment personally doing exact fleet numbers I'd do:

Now:
6x Gillingham MMC's to Ashington
4x Enviro 400 to Blyth (7530-7533)
2x Enviro 400 MMC to Whitby (7576/7)
6x Volvo B9 to Durham
2x DB300's to Durham (7609/10)

X93: 7576 - 7580
Spare: 7581

Next Summer:
5x Enviro 400 to Whitby (7523/7530-7533)

X93: 7576-7580
X94: 7581/7530/7531
P&R: 7532/7533
Spares: 7523/7534

As long as the core X93 boards are covered then it's fine imo.

There's at least 40 59 plate 09 plate reg Pulsars that are in Merseyside, Im sure only the worst offenders will get scrapped while the rest will be divided around the country.

(22 Sep 2024, 8:48 am)Storx wrote X93: 7576-7580
X94: 7581/7530/7531
P&R: 7532/7533
Spares: 7523/7534

7530-3 have absolutely no chance of being able to do that. Park & Ride yes, but they're nowhere near good enough after 10 years on Morpeth express work and a year or so of X21/22 to be going onto X94s.

(22 Sep 2024, 9:18 am)PH - BQA wrote 7530-3 have absolutely no chance of being able to do that. Park & Ride yes, but they're nowhere near good enough after 10 years on Morpeth express work and a year or so of X21/22 to be going onto X94s.

Aye that's fair, they always seemed reliable enough and I know they occasionally trek onto Berwick runs recently.

To be honest, I'm surprised they don't do more with the X94, considering it sits around for 50 minutes every return trip which is a crazy waste of resources.

(21 Sep 2024, 9:51 pm)Storx wrote Yeah that's true, feels like 2 minutes ago since they were done but time flies lately. 


Interesting, wonder if it might see the remaining E200's heading in the opposite direction.

1324 was meant to go to Yorkshire in June but it failed down the road from Belmond depot, so it had to come back again and its still in North East.,

For simplicity sake, would it not be better sending 7401-06 to Blyth (with Euro 6 mods) for the 43/44/45 and 306/308? Then any half decent E400 classics (14/64/15 reg) can fill in on the X16/X20 with MMC's to Redcar / Whitby, forming the spine of the X93 fleet?

Fair enough I know 7401-06 haven't had the most easy of lives, but GNE's 6043-48 which were battered on the X9/X10 and had time on the 10/10A/10B, are still being used on the 47 which arguably has a few challenging sections, especially the climbs up into Derwentside.

(22 Sep 2024, 9:31 am)Storx wrote Aye that's fair, they always seemed reliable enough and I know they occasionally trek onto Berwick runs recently.

To be honest, I'm surprised they don't do more with the X94, considering it sits around for 50 minutes every return trip which is a crazy waste of resources.

In all honesty it keeps the X94 on time and allows a prompt departure from Whitby towards Scarborough

The service not mentioned much is the 63. I saw a video from Geoff Marshall on YouTube recently about buses with high frequencies that had been promoted and were doing really well, and I couldn't help but think about the 63 and the lack of attention Arriva have given it.

Am not sure what the current situation is like, but I imagine for a long time its been rare for the 63 to operate its full PVR on a typical day, as buses have been needed to fill gaps on the less frequent routes.

But with any other operator a service like the 63 would be given plenty of attention and its own dedicated buses.

With the suspected 10 New Evoras coming in March Next Year, which 10 Temsa's do we reckon will be withdrawn. Personally, I don't know what each Temsa's Maintenance Record is but I would personally choose;

4700
4701
4703
4704
4709
4710
4715
4717
4721
4723

Then their spare parts can be used on the remaining 13 others till old Pulsars or MMC's come from elsewhere to see off the rest of the fleet. I still think they should get their money's worth out of every single one till it's impossible to fix. So like keeping Temsas as reserve or use them on low populated routes until they have some decent spares to use.

(23 Sep 2024, 2:42 pm)Mike_98 wrote With the suspected 10 New Evoras coming in March Next Year, which 10 Temsa's do we reckon will be withdrawn. Personally, I don't know what each Temsa's Maintenance Record is but I would personally choose;

4700
4701
4703
4704
4709
4710
4715
4717
4721
4723

Then their spare parts can be used on the remaining 13 others till old Pulsars or MMC's come from elsewhere to see off the rest of the fleet. I still think they should get their money's worth out of every single one till it's impossible to fix. So like keeping Temsas as reserve or use them on low populated routes until they have some decent spares to use.

I'm not sure on the Evora dates but I wouldn't be surprised if the Pulsars turn up first. 

Happy to be corrected but Liverpool has a 15 year old restriction on vehicles so the Pulsars need to be out of there by the end of the year and the Greater Manchester depot is closing this year too.

(23 Sep 2024, 3:23 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure on the Evora dates but I wouldn't be surprised if the Pulsars turn up first. 

Happy to be corrected but Liverpool has a 15 year old restriction on vehicles so the Pulsars need to be out of there by the end of the year and the Greater Manchester depot is closing this year too.

Ahhh ok. Just would seem a shame to not keep Some of the good working Temsa's go to waste and get every single penny worth out of them and have the withdrawn ones keeping them going. I understand the fact that they're unique in the entire country and from a maintenance point of view its expensive. And are some 08 Plated Pulsars better than the Temsas? Arguably yes but at the same time they're gonna be gone soon too. No point bringing more near enough scrap ready vehicles to also replace near scrap ready vehicles.

The solo Sr was over the pits today in redcsr spotted a photo on Facebook

(23 Sep 2024, 3:23 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure on the Evora dates but I wouldn't be surprised if the Pulsars turn up first. 

Happy to be corrected but Liverpool has a 15 year old restriction on vehicles so the Pulsars need to be out of there by the end of the year and the Greater Manchester depot is closing this year too.

Thats why a bunch of 62 plate Yorkshire Pulsars went to Merseyside early this year, and why the 58 plate Pulsar 1s got sent to Wakefield depot.

Buses leaving Merseyside this time should be mainly 09/59 plate Pulsars, and maybe some of the older e400s to go as well. I imagine the Pulsar 1s still left in the North West will most likely end up in the scrapyard.

(23 Sep 2024, 9:16 pm)davao123 wrote Thats why a bunch of 62 plate Yorkshire Pulsars went to Merseyside early this year, and why the 58 plate Pulsar 1s got sent to Wakefield depot.

Buses leaving Merseyside this time should be mainly 09/59 plate Pulsars, and maybe some of the older e400s to go as well. I imagine the Pulsar 1s still left in the North West will most likely end up in the scrapyard.

Yeah thought it was. Just wasn't 100% sure, didn't want the knives thrown like some enjoy doing on here. 

Mind hope they get the Manchester ones instead though as they're quite a bit newer. Getting 09/59 Plate Pulsars really isn't the answer for anything especially if the electric order has been cancelled, especially for an arguably flagship route.

I believe Solo SR 3052 is the one at Redcar depot. 63 plate. this isn't an EX Tiger one so it shouldn't be as bad as the tiger ones Yorkshire have.

(24 Sep 2024, 11:02 am)davao123 wrote I believe Solo SR 3052 is the one at Redcar depot.  63 plate. this isn't an EX Tiger one so it shouldn't be as bad as the tiger ones Yorkshire have.

So is the Solo SR entering service at Redcar?

(24 Sep 2024, 11:27 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote So is the Solo SR entering service at Redcar?

I.bleve so yes  hope that helps with ur question