Given the collosal amount of engineering vacancies on the GNE website, I can't see things improving soon

5477 gave up the ghost as I was heading into work today. From what I heard the driver saying, it threw it belts off at the Westbound stop near Wallsend Forum / The Ritz around 0915.

(25 Oct 2024, 9:15 pm)PH - BQA wrote Noted both 6318 and 6325 broken down on the 21/X21 on my travels today. As well as these, 6326 looked to be taken off the X21, and the overwhelming majority of 21s I saw were ex-London B9s. My 21 was 6970, the less said about that the better. 

At this point these Streetdecks have to be up there as one of the worst batches of vehicles ever purchased by GNE. Constantly unavailable or simply unable to perform the route which they are branded for, resulting in GNE's flagship route being ran by ex-London vehicles which are incredibly spartan.

And the problem with the buses on instead is that they're knackered. I was. On 6156 on the X21 on Wednesday and it appeared to have got stuck in reverse, leaving Eldon Square. The driver did his best not to swear then adjusted his wing mirror. Sticky brakes, too.

(25 Oct 2024, 11:41 pm)BusLoverMum wrote And the problem with the buses on instead is that they're knackered. I was. On 6156 on the X21 on Wednesday and it appeared to have got stuck in reverse, leaving Eldon Square. The driver did his best not to swear then adjusted his wing mirror. Sticky brakes, too.

But how comes we don't hear anything about Washington's StreetDecks which are the same batch as 6356-63?

Also with the exception of the X21 which I've argued enough about in the past, the 21 is no harder than any of the Blyth work that Arriva uses DB300's on. The 21 and 308 also both had Volvo B5LH's allocated at one point too!

Must be an engineering issue, not necessarily the staff's fault though!

(26 Oct 2024, 6:25 am)L469 YVK wrote But how comes we don't hear anything about Washington's StreetDecks which are the same batch as 6356-63?

Also with the exception of the X21 which I've argued enough about in the past, the 21 is no harder than any of the Blyth work that Arriva uses DB300's on. The 21 and 308 also both had Volvo B5LH's allocated at one point too!

Must be an engineering issue, not necessarily the staff's fault though!

Not sure what the DB300 has to do with anything they're two completely different vehicles. 

It's like comparing a Volvo B9 and Volvo B5 and the second one is a pile of crap compared to the first aswell. 

Both of them imo went for a market which is absolutely hopeless outside pottering around cities and neither were interested by London operators either. Admit the Streetdeck done a bit better than the B5TL though. 

ADL were the real winner though their buses are everywhere nowadays. 5L engines with a turbos is hopeless for interurban work imo and the hybrids were absolutely useless on both aswell.

(26 Oct 2024, 7:17 am)Storx wrote Not sure what the DB300 has to do with anything they're two completely different vehicles. 

It's like comparing a Volvo B9 and Volvo B5 and the second one is a pile of crap compared to the first aswell. 

Both of them imo went for a market which is absolutely hopeless outside pottering around cities and neither were interested by London operators either. Admit the Streetdeck done a bit better than the B5TL though. 

ADL were the real winner though their buses are everywhere nowadays. 5L engines with a turbos is hopeless for interurban work imo and the hybrids were absolutely useless on both aswell.

I think I got my wires crossed haha. Was more comparing the 21 & 308. Obviously the 21 has had the Brandon extension added but in general is no harder than the 308. StreetDecks should be coping fine on the 21.

As for the X21, a joint allocation of Enviros with the X10 would go someway sorting issues out, but don't know how the StreetDecks would handle the Consett & Stanley routes in turn (with low height board changes). Not as many fast or sections as the X21, but at same time would have the hills to deal with! Operationally though, it would be a hell of a lot easier managing breakdowns with depots pretty much at either end of the routes and bar the hourly sections of the X70 & X73, other parts of the routes run on common sections of route with other services.

(26 Oct 2024, 8:02 am)L469 YVK wrote I think I got my wires crossed haha. Was more comparing the 21 & 308. Obviously the 21 has had the Brandon extension added but in general is no harder than the 308. StreetDecks should be coping fine on the 21.

As for the X21, a joint allocation of Enviros with the X10 would go someway sorting issues out, but don't know how the StreetDecks would handle the Consett & Stanley routes in turn (with low height board changes). Not as many fast or sections as the X21, but at same time would have the hills to deal with! Operationally though, it would be a hell of a lot easier managing breakdowns with depots pretty much at either end of the routes and bar the hourly sections of the X70 & X73, other parts of the routes run on common sections of route with other services.

In fairness, I don't think they are. Barely anyone uses them on interurban work as they're not good vehicles imo. The only route I can think of, off the top of my head was the Brighton Coaster service and they've been replaced already by surprise surprise E400MMC's already.

They're designed for stuff like the 39/40 in Newcastle where they potter around doing 10 mph all day imo and they'd actually be good for it aswell as you don't need a big engine for work like that.

The 21, X21 and 308 aren't those routes though. Thankfully Arriva saw sense and avoided them like the plague mostly after being pretty much 80% Wrightbus for years beforehand. Hopefully when they're replaced they get moved to the 51/52/57/93/94 where they'd actually be alright.

(26 Oct 2024, 8:33 am)Storx wrote In fairness, I don't think they are. Barely anyone uses them on interurban work as they're not good vehicles imo. The only route I can think of, off the top of my head was the Brighton Coaster service and they've been replaced already by surprise surprise E400MMC's already.

They're designed for stuff like the 39/40 in Newcastle where they potter around doing 10 mph all day imo and they'd actually be good for it aswell as you don't need a big engine for work like that.

The 21, X21 and 308 aren't those routes though. Thankfully Arriva saw sense and avoided them like the plague mostly after being pretty much 80% Wrightbus for years beforehand. Hopefully when they're replaced they get moved to the 51/52/57/93/94 where they'd actually be alright.

I agree with the X21, but the 21 and 308 aren't hard routes.

If anything, the B9TL's are complete overkill on the 307 & 309 and even an E400MMC would be overkill on such types of routes. The StreetDecks when eventually replaced on the 21, would be perfect for something such as the 307 & 309 with big fuel savings too! Not forgetting that GNE tried fitting GKN flywheel modifications to 6085-6117 back in 2014/15 as they were seen as overkill then. GNE only ordered B9TLs for the 56 & 309/310 as Arriva had their share in VDL and other than the B5LH which would've needed Govt funding, there was no other lightweight WrightBus bodied deckers on the market at the time when the order was made. And GNE would never have purchased any ADL products back then.

(26 Oct 2024, 8:33 am)Storx wrote In fairness, I don't think they are. Barely anyone uses them on interurban work as they're not good vehicles imo. The only route I can think of, off the top of my head was the Brighton Coaster service and they've been replaced already by surprise surprise E400MMC's already.

They're designed for stuff like the 39/40 in Newcastle where they potter around doing 10 mph all day imo and they'd actually be good for it aswell as you don't need a big engine for work like that.

The 21, X21 and 308 aren't those routes though. Thankfully Arriva saw sense and avoided them like the plague mostly after being pretty much 80% Wrightbus for years beforehand . Hopefully when they're replaced they get moved to the 51/52/57/93/94 where they'd actually be alright.

It's all this patter with fleet standardisation though isn't it? 

On one hand you've got a potential ready supply of parts and fitters who are type trained by virtue of everything being the same. 

The downside, is that you've got a fleet which isn't set up to meet the network requirements. 

It's like a taxi company having a fleet of Skoda vehicles. Common parts, easy for the mechanics to switch between one and the other etc. 
The Octavias will be great for distance stuff to the airport, but sticking a Fabia out on the same run isn't going to do it much good.

(26 Oct 2024, 9:21 am)Andreos1 wrote It's all this patter with fleet standardisation though isn't it? 

On one hand you've got a potential ready supply of parts and fitters who are type trained by virtue of everything being the same. 

The downside, is that you've got a fleet which isn't set up to meet the network requirements. 

It's like a taxi company having a fleet of Skoda vehicles. Common parts, easy for the mechanics to switch between one and the other etc. 
The Octavias will be great for distance stuff to the airport, but sticking a Fabia out on the same run isn't going to do it much good.

That's exactly what the problem is! GoNE were far too loyal with WrightBus & Volvo!

Made a massive mistake ordering B5TL's for the X9/X10 and should've ordered ADL E400MMC for the X21 back in 2016 (they did ironically trial now GoNE's 6337 on the X21 back in 2014).

Had this discussion on another thread, but Volvo should've engined the intended B5TL with a Cummins ISBe 6.7 (same as E400MMC) and had the chassis & engine combo designated as a B7TL2. They used the Cummins L10 as an option in the Volvo Olympian (as used Busway's N*** LTN and Northumbria's M*** FTY batch of Volvo Olympians). If anything, it would've been an easy win for Volvo. Operators wanting the same power & engine of the E400MMC, but with a Volvo chassis & MCV / WrightBus bodywork!

(26 Oct 2024, 9:21 am)Andreos1 wrote It's all this patter with fleet standardisation though isn't it? 

On one hand you've got a potential ready supply of parts and fitters who are type trained by virtue of everything being the same. 

The downside, is that you've got a fleet which isn't set up to meet the network requirements. 

It's like a taxi company having a fleet of Skoda vehicles. Common parts, easy for the mechanics to switch between one and the other etc. 
The Octavias will be great for distance stuff to the airport, but sticking a Fabia out on the same run isn't going to do it much good.

Exactly agreed. Personally I don't understand why the Streetdeck's were ever ordered up here. Like you said there, surely it's better to have a fleet of Octavias, if a fair chunk of the fleet actually needs them, rather than having a fleet of Fabia's running around doing Octavia work. Especially when in the future they need to displace the things to something else which pretty much all need Octavias as stuff like the X5/X15/47 and so on where displacements arguably should go would struggle with them.

Mind that said the fleet standardisation is a mystery with GoNE. There can't be an operator with more types of deckers on the road that they have right now; B5TL, B7TL, B9TL, Cummins 6.7L, Daimler 5L, Daimler 7L,  Scania N230UD, Scania N270UD all in numerous different bodies because why the hell not and that's only the Deckers because the singles is just as bad.

Anyone know what is up with the E400MMC’s for the X10? 6352/53/54/55 52/53 haven’t been seen in a while 54 has been on recently and they tend to just use 55 for scholar services putting streetdecks on that are normally on the X21 bar 6377.

(27 Oct 2024, 11:28 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote Anyone know what is up with the E400MMC’s for the X10? 6352/53/54/55 52/53 haven’t been seen in a while 54 has been on recently and they tend to just use 55 for scholar services putting streetdecks on that are normally on the X21 bar 6377.

Not enough decent spares and not enough vehicle rotation with the same 4x depended upon asides from also having 6377! 

All because of poor planning with the Derwentside changes, which are ironically more inefficient. I've already proven that GoNE could reduce the low height PVR to only 4x and have way more efficient interworking patterns with next to no remote reliefs in Stanley. A bus every 30 minutes through Whickham & Dunston is more than sufficient!

Apologies if it’s been mentioned elsewhere, but I’ve noticed on Facebook that GNE are allocating the Durham Diamond E400s on Metro replacement work this week.

17 year old ex-Manchester B9s seem to be taking their place on the 16. Yet another example of mental decision making, and annoying those actually paying for your service.

One of the E400s seemed to have been hit with graffiti

Basically, all GoNE need to do to sort the X10 & StreetDeck issues is implement something like the following timetable for the X30's/X70's and X45 with some fleet movements.

- X31 dropped and replaced by improved X32. X30 & X71 would still offer half-hourly service via Whickham & Dunston.
- X32 2ph and omits Lobley Hill Estate.
- X70 via Lobley Hill Estate in lieu of revised X32.
- Everything ends up back at Consett Monday to Saturday daytime = few if any remote reliefs needed and all within legal & company driving hours.

StreetDeck & B5TL
- 6308-14 - X32/X45/X70/X73*
- 6356-63 - X32/X45/X70/X73*
* Total PVR 13x with 2x spare
- 6377 - X10 & X21

E400MMC
- 6336-37 - Riverside spares but not to be used on X10
- 6338 - X10 & X21 spare
- 6339-44 - X30/X71**
** Total PVR 4x with 2x spare
- 6345-55 - X10 & X21

X20 ran using ex GAG / London stock although could get some ex 51/52/93/94 or Cobalt B9TLs down the line depending which routes end up with Angel StreetDecks when EV upgrade happens.

Not ideal having B5TLs & StreetDecks going up & down the hills in Derwentside. But there'd be a favourable spare vehicle ratio, not forgetting will be a hell of a lot less inconvenience needing to recover with a reasonable distance from Consett or Riverside, as opposed to the far end of Durham or Teesside, with a fair few of the Derwentside routes running on shared corridors with other services. Plus not forgetting that 4.5 litre Cummins engined StreetLites just about handled the 45/46/47 okay for the best part of 4-5 years.

The fleet rotation at Riverside, (1x day on X10 then 1x day on the X21) would conserve the life span of the E400MMCs and offer a massive upgrade on the X21 too over the StreetDecks.

(29 Oct 2024, 6:17 pm)F114TML wrote One of the E400s seemed to have been hit with graffiti

6237. Been like that for a couple of.weeks now.

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(29 Oct 2024, 7:58 pm)Tiger5105 wrote 6237. Been like that for a couple of.weeks now.

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How did it get sprayed with graffiti? Buses aren't usually graffitied. Why hasn't it been cleaned off?

6237 has been graffitied since the 9th September (that's the earliest photo I can find of it with the graffiti.)

Since it just looks like a standard tag, it could have been done anywhere, like waiting at a bus stop, traffic lights or it had broken down somewhere.

(30 Oct 2024, 1:16 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote How did it get sprayed with graffiti? Buses aren't usually graffitied. Why hasn't it been cleaned off?

It won't come off, the panels should be getting repainted next week

(02 Nov 2024, 1:20 pm)Liam Hall wrote It won't come off, the panels should be getting repainted next week

Why doesn't it come off? It's only the second time I've seen a bus with graffiti on. How did it happen?

(29 Oct 2024, 5:35 pm)PH - BQA wrote Apologies if it’s been mentioned elsewhere, but I’ve noticed on Facebook that GNE are allocating the Durham Diamond E400s on Metro replacement work this week.

17 year old ex-Manchester B9s seem to be taking their place on the 16. Yet another example of mental decision making, and annoying those actually paying for your service.

Not entirely sure I understand the logic of the swap either.

Presumably barring some early morning and late evening journeys, the Metro Replacement service was outside of the CAZ, and therefore didn’t need to be allocated Euro 6 buses.

So, with a bit of competent vehicle allocation, Riverside’s own Euro 6 buses could have been allocated to boards operating within the CAZ, and Consett’s Euro 4 buses (which were used on the 16 this week) could have been used on the Metro Replacement service during the daytime between South Hylton and Gateshead.

When such a big song and dance was made about the Durham Diamond vehicle upgrade just a couple of months ago, the temporary re-allocation of its fleet to a contracted service is questionable!

(02 Nov 2024, 3:39 pm)Dan wrote Not entirely sure I understand the logic of the swap either.

Presumably barring some early morning and late evening journeys, the Metro Replacement service was outside of the CAZ, and therefore didn’t need to be allocated Euro 6 buses.

So, with a bit of competent vehicle allocation, Riverside’s own Euro 6 buses could have been allocated to boards operating within the CAZ, and Consett’s Euro 4 buses (which were used on the 16 this week) could have been used on the Metro Replacement service during the daytime between South Hylton and Gateshead.

When such a big song and dance was made about the Durham Diamond vehicle upgrade just a couple of months ago, the temporary re-allocation of its fleet to a contracted service is questionable!

I haven't seen the tender for this one, so don't know, but aren't the ones which usually involve Newcastle tendered for Euro 6? I know the North Tyneside services all are which hit the ULEZ when looking in the past.

Most the vehicles which JH Coaches had out are saying that there's no charge so assume they're Euro 6, bar 2 but that's no doubt because of VOR issues. Mind why on earth a 03 Plate B7TL is Euro 6 is a bit bonkers.

(02 Nov 2024, 7:00 pm)Storx wrote I haven't seen the tender for this one, so don't know, but aren't the ones which usually involve Newcastle tendered for Euro 6? I know the North Tyneside services all are which hit the ULEZ when looking in the past.

Most the vehicles which JH Coaches had out are saying that there's no charge so assume they're Euro 6, bar 2 but that's no doubt because of VOR issues. Mind why on earth a 03 Plate B7TL is Euro 6 is a bit bonkers.

If your on about the 03 plate ALX400 Jh had out then it was sitting at Heworth on Tuesday & Wednesday and was put on for the extra rep on Wednesday evening. Not sure about it being out other days possible for cover of buses VOR. I noticed Jh now don't use the OmniDekka on metro replacement anymore

(02 Nov 2024, 9:45 pm)Aaron21 wrote If your on about the 03 plate ALX400 Jh had out then it was sitting at Heworth on Tuesday & Wednesday and was put on for the extra rep on Wednesday evening. Not sure about it being out other days possible for cover of buses VOR. I noticed Jh now don't use the OmniDekka on metro replacement anymore

Nah it's the B9's that aren't E6. Supposedly those ALX400's are according to the Gov checker anyway. Not sure why anyone would spend money on them though unless they were already done for some other zone years ago, seems to be a bit mad to do it on 21 year old B7's but then again I believe GNE done their 05 Plate B7's so say no more.

The Ex West Midlands ones would have been modified for the Birmingham low emission zone.

(03 Nov 2024, 1:35 am)Rapidsnap wrote The Ex West Midlands ones would have been modified for the Birmingham low emission zone.

Yeah had a feeling it might have been that. Wasn't too sure when they were withdrawn from there tbh.  

Bit bonkers from National Express giving 18 year old B7's E6 mods mind.

(03 Nov 2024, 10:39 am)Storx wrote Yeah had a feeling it might have been that. Wasn't too sure when they were withdrawn from there tbh.  

Bit bonkers from National Express giving 18 year old B7's E6 mods mind.

A Euro 6 mod is cheaper than replacing them

Is this the biggest white elephant in the Go North East fleet?
6337 last ran in service, i believe in May 2023 when it carried the Silver and Purple jubilee livery.
No sign of any progress as its sat at the front of Hownsgill for a while now.



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Seen 2 / possibly 3 broken down services out of Percy Main yesterday!