Probably worth mentioning that the Darlington Dalesbus will start from Middlesbrough this summer, in an attempt to attract would-be Moorsbus travellers onto the Dalesbus network instead as a replacement Sunday activity.

4653 NK05GXG is working the 1345 85/685 ex Newcastle.

Subtle Replacement by Northern156, on Flickr

(22 Feb 2014, 4:02 pm)northern156 wrote 4653 NK05GXG is working the 1345 85/685 ex Newcastle.
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[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/northern156/12698516514/]Subtle Replacement by Northern156, on Flickr

What's the inside like? (ie seat trim)

Not the rancid leather ones; the fabric ones in this vehicle.

Stockton MPD 1772 has gained a rear advert for Cooper Teesside

Why don't Arriva install radios on their buses for? It would massively help the reliability of some services and would stop bunching. I was going down the Coast Road yesterday and two 308's were bunching past Holy Cross towards Newcastle. If they had radios installed, the driver infront could've simply put an RTS through for the one behind to take all his passengers and he would've been able to run dry to Newcastle and leave almost on time.

(23 Feb 2014, 12:19 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Why don't Arriva install radios on their buses for? It would massively help the reliability of some services and would stop bunching. I was going down the Coast Road yesterday and two 308's were bunching past Holy Cross towards Newcastle. If they had radios installed, the driver infront could've simply put an RTS through for the one behind to take all his passengers and he would've been able to run dry to Newcastle and leave almost on time.

You seem to have an odd idea how radios work on buses - drivers can't contact other vehicles only a central control (Stagecoach's control is based at each depot) then any major information (road closure, accident etc) is passed by the control to the other vehicles (only messages from control can be heard on the other vehicles on the road). Arriva did have radios until last year when their central control at Jesmond was closed. Instead, drivers now simply contact their depot on the phone (obviously when safe to use the phone) to report late running or to report a breakdown.

(23 Feb 2014, 12:34 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Arriva did have radios until last year when their central control at Jesmond was closed. Instead, drivers now simply contact their depot on the phone (obviously when safe to use the phone) to report late running or to report a breakdown.

Northumbria have never had radio's. Does seem strange not to have them, how are drivers informed if there is a road closure due to an RTA for example?

(23 Feb 2014, 12:19 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Why don't Arriva install radios on their buses for? It would massively help the reliability of some services and would stop bunching. I was going down the Coast Road yesterday and two 308's were bunching past Holy Cross towards Newcastle. If they had radios installed, the driver infront could've simply put an RTS through for the one behind to take all his passengers and he would've been able to run dry to Newcastle and leave almost on time.

We used to have a radio system at Durham, but the vast majority of the time buses were out of range and therefore the radios wouldn't work, simply because of the amount of countryside and rural routes that we ran, so we were left to use phones anyway.

With regards to sending a bus empty after transferring passengers, this would increase lost mileage, something which the company is trying to crack down on as much as possible. All it takes is for buses to 'bunnyhop' each other and its amazing how much difference it makes to making up time.

Just a quick note to say the previously released list of new buses has changed slightly, with Durham's service 23 definitely getting investment now in lieu of Darlington getting additional single decks. Likely the cascaded Solo's will end up at either Darlington or Blyth.

(23 Feb 2014, 4:37 pm)tyresmoke wrote Just a quick note to say the previously released list of new buses has changed slightly, with Durham's service 23 definitely getting investment now in lieu of Darlington getting additional single decks. Likely the cascaded Solo's will end up at either Darlington or Blyth.

I guess they will go to Blyth? Possibly replacing the older MPD's for use on the 2?

(23 Feb 2014, 4:37 pm)Tom wrote I guess they will go to Blyth? Possibly replacing the older MPD's for use on the 2?

Let's not forget Darlington are having another 2 Solo's pinched for Whitby and being left with less than suitable replacements in the form of 1309 and 1737!

(23 Feb 2014, 4:37 pm)Tom wrote I guess they will go to Blyth? Possibly replacing the older MPD's for use on the 2?

I think Darlington are more likely for the first displaced Solos off the 23 - don't forget Durham Park & Ride is up for renewal later this year and, even if Arriva do retain it, chances are 2852-61 will be replaced by new vehicles anyway.

Anyone know what the loadings are actually like on service 23 between Peterlee and Hartlepool? I've never been startled by the loadings between Sunderland and Peterlee, myself... Tops of about 5 pensioners and 3 fare payers during peak periods, getting off at Sunderland.

(23 Feb 2014, 4:50 pm)Dan wrote Anyone know what the loadings are actually like on service 23 between Peterlee and Hartlepool? I've never been startled by the loadings between Sunderland and Peterlee, myself... Tops of about 5 pensioners and 3 fare payers during peak periods.

Whenever I've saw the 23 leaving Sunderland it's been the same story, very few passengers. Normally a few OAP's though. I know what services I'd be using between Hartlepool and Peterlee/Peterlee and Sunderland though

(23 Feb 2014, 4:50 pm)Dan wrote Anyone know what the loadings are actually like on service 23 between Peterlee and Hartlepool? I've never been startled by the loadings between Sunderland and Peterlee, myself... Tops of about 5 pensioners and 3 fare payers during peak periods, getting off at Sunderland.

A good money earner then

Really surprised it can justify the cost of brand new vehicles - I thought the Solos would be staying on there for a good few years yet...

(23 Feb 2014, 4:55 pm)Dan wrote Really surprised it can justify the cost of brand new vehicles - I thought the Solos would be staying on there for a good few years yet...

Is the X35 usually busy between Peterlee and Hartlepool?

(23 Feb 2014, 5:00 pm)Tom wrote Is the X35 usually busy between Peterlee and Hartlepool?

It's not great... I'd suggest it can justify the 30 minute frequency, but nothing more.
Certainly still a better performer than the 23 though.

(23 Feb 2014, 5:04 pm)Dan wrote It's not great... I'd suggest it can justify the 30 minute frequency, but nothing more.
Certainly still a better performer than the 23 though.

Yeah, I think the Peterlee to Sunderland section of the route is better. I don't think upgrading the 23 is a very good idea, the 24 maybe, but not the 23

(23 Feb 2014, 5:06 pm)Tom wrote Yeah, I think the Peterlee to Sunderland section of the route is better. I don't think upgrading the 23 is a very good idea, the 24 maybe, but not the 23

Would agree in regards to the 24 seemingly being a better performer than the 23, but I'm sure there are other services in the network which are even better than those.

23 must make money if Arriva are investing in it. They generally don't invest where the less profitable routes are. So with reported low usage, I suspect the overall picture shows better, which nobody on here would be able to comment on.

(23 Feb 2014, 5:06 pm)Tom wrote Yeah, I think the Peterlee to Sunderland section of the route is better. I don't think upgrading the 23 is a very good idea, the 24 maybe, but not the 23

Does really well from Blackhall area into Hartlepool. Let's not forget that the 22/24 saw investment in 2011 with the new Pulsar's introduced at Durham depot and the 23 has been struggling along with Solo's since.
The new East Durham triple tickets were introduced late last year to try and simplify the ticketing in those areas and push the price down in, lets face it, hardly a highly affluent area. They were basically an extension of the East Durham student tickets, which by the way are now valid across the whole Triple ticket area (so I believe!), to give an adult/child day/week version too.
Other routes in the East Durham area should see upgraded allocations as a result of the new arrivals this year, with the 21A and 56/57/57A in line for better stock thankfully!

(23 Feb 2014, 5:16 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote 23 must make money if Arriva are investing in it. They generally don't invest where the less profitable routes are. So with reported low usage, I suspect the overall picture shows better, which nobody on here would be able to comment on.

I get it.. The Solos must be filled with pensioners at half 9 - covers the costs for the rest of the day and makes a hefty profit.

In all seriousness, we've identified one good area of the route (Blackhall to Hartlepool, as suggested by tyresmoke above)... That must be picking up the pieces for the rest of the route though, and can't be making a great deal of profit overall...

(23 Feb 2014, 5:23 pm)Dan wrote I get it.. The Solos must be filled with pensioners at half 9 - covers the costs for the rest of the day and makes a hefty profit.

In all seriousness, we've identified one good area of the route (Blackhall to Hartlepool, as suggested by tyresmoke above)... That must be picking up the pieces for the rest of the route though, and can't be making a great deal of profit overall...

Being the quickest option between Sunderland and Hartlepool helps, and the upgrade to full size buses must be justified otherwise as VolvoMarkII says, Arriva wouldn't invest if the business case wasn't there (or indeed if it would extract revenue from another route dragging the whole house of cards down...).

There's no denying that certain routes don't generate a massive amount of profit but they are slowly being thinned out (see the recent changes on Teesside) but there are a few jewels in the crown which see repeated investment across the region.

Hopefully by 2015 we will have all of the poor quality vehicles left in the fleet ousted, certainly we are expecting to be completely low floor inside the next few months. What's left of the DAF Prestiges will be all gone, as will the older MPD's and hopefully a start can be made on the larger Darts too

(23 Feb 2014, 5:35 pm)tyresmoke wrote Being the quickest option between Sunderland and Hartlepool helps, and the upgrade to full size buses must be justified otherwise as VolvoMarkII says, Arriva wouldn't invest if the business case wasn't there (or indeed if it would extract revenue from another route dragging the whole house of cards down...).

There's no denying that certain routes don't generate a massive amount of profit but they are slowly being thinned out (see the recent changes on Teesside) but there are a few jewels in the crown which see repeated investment across the region.

Hopefully by 2015 we will have all of the poor quality vehicles left in the fleet ousted, certainly we are expecting to be completely low floor inside the next few months. What's left of the DAF Prestiges will be all gone, as will the older MPD's and hopefully a start can be made on the larger Darts too

It's only the quickest option by 8 minutes. Arriva's 23 takes 1hr 10m while GNE's X7/X35 takes 1hr 18m (with a connection at Peterlee). Despite this, I highly doubt many people actually use service 23 between Sunderland and Hartlepool. The competition blows Arriva's 23 out of the water on both sections of the route.

I don't know which company provides the cheapest fares, but if they are the same or Arriva's fares are more expensive, I can see why customers seemingly prefer Go North East's services. At Hartlepool in the past, I have heard customers complaining regarding the reliability of service 23. I personally can vouch for delays over 10 minutes during mid-afternoon periods towards Sunderland. I have also heard complaints regarding the reliability of service X35, but as we know, recent service changes enabled Go North East to provide a greater layover for that service in Sunderland. In the little experience I've had with the service post service changes, it has improved things.
Like the SimpliCity ticket for Go North East (recently discussed on that section of the forum), I think the introduction of saver tickets in the East Durham area would have been to attract custom from the competition. Whether this has worked or whether it has backfired and an even smaller amount of revenue is now being generated, I do not know.

I think if anything, Arriva have invested in a service allocated Solos for MPD replacement. Service 23 - albeit poor - must have been one of the better services allocated Solos... Quite like the Venture network for Go North East.

(22 Feb 2014, 9:28 am)tyresmoke wrote Probably worth mentioning that the Darlington Dalesbus will start from Middlesbrough this summer, in an attempt to attract would-be Moorsbus travellers onto the Dalesbus network instead as a replacement Sunday activity.

Timetable for the Darlington Dalesbus here - between Middlesbrough and Darlington it will operate as the 866.

(23 Feb 2014, 3:42 pm)palatine3833 wrote We used to have a radio system at Durham, but the vast majority of the time buses were out of range and therefore the radios wouldn't work, simply because of the amount of countryside and rural routes that we ran, so we were left to use phones anyway.

With regards to sending a bus empty after transferring passengers, this would increase lost mileage, something which the company is trying to crack down on as much as possible. All it takes is for buses to 'bunnyhop' each other and its amazing how much difference it makes to making up time.

Not really though. It's better to make up the lost time to get back on time and despite there being dead mileage, customer satisfaction would improve dramatically despite having to change onboard the on time bus if their particular bus was late. If you look at it like this, an on time 43 overtook the late one I was on and got into Newcastle on time BUT, the 1625 45 would've left Haymarket approximately 20 minutes late and that would have a major knock on effect on service 44 and make service 44 late due to a sharp increase in the number of passengers boarding the 1640 44 out of Newcastle and even worse, that journey runs to Morpeth meaning that it would struggle to keep to time as well as coping with the traffic through Gosforth and Wideopen.

(23 Feb 2014, 5:51 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Not really though. It's better to make up the lost time to get back on time and despite there being dead mileage, customer satisfaction would improve dramatically despite having to change onboard the on time bus if their particular bus was late. If you look at it like this, an on time 43 overtook the late one I was on and got into Newcastle on time BUT, the 1625 45 would've left Haymarket approximately 20 minutes late and that would have a major knock on effect on service 44 and make service 44 late due to a sharp increase in the number of passengers boarding the 1640 44 out of Newcastle and even worse, that journey runs to Morpeth meaning that it would struggle to keep to time as well as coping with the traffic through Gosforth and Wideopen.

Have to agree. Providing it's managed correctly and there isn't a 90 minute gap between services (I won't go there again...), I see no reason why running dead to make up time is something to be cracked down on.

(23 Feb 2014, 5:54 pm)Dan wrote Have to agree. Providing it's managed correctly and there isn't a 90 minute gap between services (I won't go there again...), I see no reason why running dead to make up time is something to be cracked down on.

I am only going off personal experience from running late. Take Friday as an example, a very unreliable 1310 kept overheating leading to me running between 10-15 minutes late at certain times, but by the other 64 behind me helping, I managed to get it back on time fairly quickly by using up standing time at each terminus. If a service doesn't have much stand at either end then sending them dead is sometimes necessary but most of the time a bit of tactful driving is all you need.