(23 Feb 2014, 8:10 pm)JoshP wrote I never knew this and I must admit I never saw the screens, I did use the X66 quite often too. Quite interesting this fact. Was this as soon as the coaches were refurbished or just recently before the Omnicites?

They were fitted not long after the refurbishment... fixed to the overhead luggage racks on the nearside just behind the door. Some of them may still carry them albeit they're up in Northumberland now.

(23 Feb 2014, 8:15 pm)tyresmoke wrote They were fitted not long after the refurbishment... fixed to the overhead luggage racks on the nearside just behind the door. Some of them may still carry them albeit they're up in Northumberland now.

I liked those coaches, cannot abide the omnicities. A lot of money was wasted refurbishing them then to be removed because of low floor regulations/OAP's complaining. At least they're still around in a cool driver training livery

(23 Feb 2014, 8:18 pm)JoshP wrote I liked those coaches, cannot abide the omnicities. A lot of money was wasted refurbishing them then to be removed because of low floor regulations/OAP's complaining. At least they're still around in a cool driver training livery

The refurbished ones are still plodding around Northumberland on service X15 and X18. 1207, 1208, 1209, 1213 and 1214.
The driver trainers are

1206 (V206DJR) - 9990 at Ashington
1210 (V210DJR) - 9991 still being converted
1211 (V211DJR) - 9992 still being converted
1212 (V212DJR) - 9993 at Stockton

(23 Feb 2014, 8:24 pm)tyresmoke wrote The refurbished ones are still plodding around Northumberland on service X15 and X18. 1207, 1208, 1209, 1213 and 1214.
The driver trainers are

1206 (V206DJR) - 9990 at Ashington
1210 (V210DJR) - 9991 still being converted
1211 (V211DJR) - 9992 still being converted
1212 (V212DJR) - 9993 at Stockton

Very rarely on X18, usually on X15 or X20. 1214 has been a regular on X20 recently.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:49 pm)JoshP wrote I should also add along with my last post, Darlington's Sapphire vehicles are only average. The seats/plug sockets are nice but the next stop announcements are useless. Some stops are not announced depending on which Pulsar you are on and the voice over announces each stop literally 2 seconds before the actual bus stop which is pointless because the bus flies past the stop as it is being announced. Yes sapphire Is an improvement but they need to update the signal/announcements and their computer systems as the screen seems glitchy. You're not missing out on much it's just a 'glorified' bus.

The next stop announcements works okay except there is no announcement for one of the stops in Woodham, Durham Gate is not announced on Darlington bound journeys and there is no announcements for all stops on the morning journeys to Framwellgate Moor.

The WiFi is okay but signal is a bit weak on parts of the route.

You now have to register your devices to use the WiFi.

(23 Feb 2014, 8:27 pm)Tom wrote Very rarely on X18, usually on X15 or X20. 1214 has been a regular on X20 recently.

To be fair X15 is where they should be. Should be getting retired soon anyway... X18 of course should be allocated double decks.
The spare coach should be allocated to service 100 I believe.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:27 pm)tyresmoke wrote I don't know a definite answer yet but they look likely to go to Durham.
Let's look back at what we know already

8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
6 Volvo B9TL -Ashington/Alnwick - Service X18
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec - along with 8 existing E400's refurbished, expected to be 7514-21)
5 VDL Pulsar - Durham - Service 23
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton - Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)

Along with 11 Volvo B7TL (ex London) which look likely to end up in Northumbria, though they want to try one on the X93 Middlesbrough - Scarborough to see how it handles the route, having spent all of their lives in London so far.

60 vehicles into the fleet will ultimately lead to 60 out, though this may change within a few each way depending on service changes or other contracts starting/finishing.
This will include all of the DAF SB220 vehicles, as well as any non DDA Dart MPD's. It will also see the end of the remaining high floor double deck vehicles (namely 7367, 7482, 7483).
There are more possible cascades rumoured, namely 5 Van Hool coaches from Green Line expected to go on service X15 to Berwick.

Did they manage to pull the order off before the Euro 5 deadline for the B9TL? Are they getting the full height or low height?

(23 Feb 2014, 8:38 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Did they manage to pull the order off before the Euro 5 deadline for the B9TL? Are they getting the full height or low height?

I don't have that info I'm afraid. They're to be used on X18 so I don't think there will be any reason why they couldn't be full height but Arriva generally order the low height version these days. I've been told they are B9TL rather than the Euro6 B5TL, though that could be subject to change - like a few other bits and pieces.

(23 Feb 2014, 8:48 pm)tyresmoke wrote I don't have that info I'm afraid. They're to be used on X18 so I don't think there will be any reason why they couldn't be full height but Arriva generally order the low height version these days. I've been told they are B9TL rather than the Euro6 B5TL, though that could be subject to change - like a few other bits and pieces.

I think the Gemini 3 should be a contender but the orders above are definite so I can't see Gemini 3's in the North East with Arriva any time soon.

(23 Feb 2014, 8:48 pm)tyresmoke wrote I don't have that info I'm afraid. They're to be used on X18 so I don't think there will be any reason why they couldn't be full height but Arriva generally order the low height version these days. I've been told they are B9TL rather than the Euro6 B5TL, though that could be subject to change - like a few other bits and pieces.

I think it might be low height due to side wind exposure and another well, very trivial reason. A rare and odd working on the X21 and X22 on Hartford Bridge section of Fisher Lane, "STOP LOW BRIDGE"!.

Hang on then, if 6 B9TL Gemini 2's are going onto the X18, then that'll either mean the 20/X20 gets allocated them on a cascaded spare basis for the X18 when required or, they get transferred to Redcar for the X93, Blyth get their DB300'S back and Ashington will have 4 E400's for the X20.

(23 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Hang on then, if 6 B9TL Gemini 2's are going onto the X18, then that'll either mean the 20/X20 gets allocated them on a cascaded spare basis for the X18 when required or, they get transferred to Redcar for the X93, Blyth get their DB300'S back and Ashington will have 4 E400's for the X20.

It all depends what comes - as tyresmoke said, things can change (look at the 5 Pulsars that are now Durham-bound rather than Darlington-bound). All we know for definite is the X18 is getting new stock, the DB250 and E400s will be allocated to work such as 30 33 34 35/35a and X14/14 (plus the Sapphire examples on X21/X22). X20/20 will get low floor vehicles in the near future. As for the X93, as stated even their allocation isn't know yet (current talk is that the E400s are definitely leaving Redcar to return to Ashington). As with everything, we have to wait and see..........

(23 Feb 2014, 9:12 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Hang on then, if 6 B9TL Gemini 2's are going onto the X18, then that'll either mean the 20/X20 gets allocated them on a cascaded spare basis for the X18 when required or, they get transferred to Redcar for the X93, Blyth get their DB300'S back and Ashington will have 4 E400's for the X20.

I reckon the X20 will end up with 7453-6 Lowlanders but that's just my thinking. It all depends on what management decide on for the X93. The B7TLs at North West are hardly setting the world alight with their reliability (by the looks of the threads on here and other forums) therefore I reckon we will end up with DB300s on the X93 this summer.

The E400s from Whitby certainly have been well ruined during their time down there and I can't see them being much good for an intense service up at Ashington. therefore I think they may get stuck out of the way on the 34 and similar stuff. They might decide to allocate them to the 35 but they'll need plenty of spares...

Certainly it looks like Volvo B10BLEs will be moving south to oust the remaining DAF Prestiges, which is how Redcar will lose majority of theirs alongside Temsas being moved out. The Temsas are a one off specific batch with all the tags that comes along with that, getting spares etc. Indeed I understand one of our Cadets at Stockton and been off the road for a few weeks whilst they try to source a specific part that isn't manufactured any more.

There are 27 DAF SB220 vehicles still in use (some in a reserve capacity), with 24 of those needing to be replaced (7 at Redcar, 14 at Stockton and 3 at Jesmond).
On top of this you have 9 old MPDs (3 at Blyth, 3 at Stockton, 3 at Redcar) needing replacement. This takes us to 32.
The 3 high floor deckers (7367, 7482, 7483) gives us 35.

That leaves 25 more vehicles to be replaced. Your guess is as good as mine on those. I have a feeling the 6 T-FGN DB250s will be going this year, maybe the rest will be found by making a start on the older full size Darts?

(23 Feb 2014, 8:29 pm)Jimmi wrote The next stop announcements works okay except there is no announcement for one of the stops in Woodham, Durham Gate is not announced on Darlington bound journeys and there is no announcements for all stops on the morning journeys to Framwellgate Moor.

The WiFi is okay but signal is a bit weak on parts of the route.

You now have to register your devices to use the WiFi.

Can't see the point in device registration. A quick redirect to accept the TOS would normally suffice. Depending what info is collected on registration, I suppose it could be collected as marketing data though.

Overall though device registration has to be better than 4 months without wifi and no light at the end of the tunnel.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:56 pm)Tom wrote I'd like Go North East to get the PR1/PR2. Out of interest, are the PR1/PR2 free to travel on?

Cost of Durham Park and Ride is £2 per person and that gives you car parking, unlimited travel on Durham PR buses and free use of The Cathedral Bus www.durham.gov.uk/parkandride

About service 23 Sunderland-Hartlepool:

Ive seen plenty of times at Peterlee bus station seeing the Arriva 23 pulling in and only a few people getting on it and then GNE X35 pulls in and a bus load of passengers boarding the X35, the 23 and X35 pulls into Peterlee bus station each way practically a few minutes apart, even though most passengers boarding the X35 have GNE ticket passes which are cheaper than Arriva tickets and the GNE passes can be used on other GNE buses in the areas and Arriva day tickets etc... can only be used on a select of services as Arriva does not have a large presence in East Durham no more (by local day tickets). Also waiting for the bus and you see a solo 23 and you let it passed just in case its packed and also the solos look abit compact but the X35 scanias are a lot better and when you board the bus you have more freedom. Only reason why the arriva 23 gets full sometimes between Sunderland and Peterlee is due to Arriva service 24 being over 30 minutes late on a 30 minute frequency, lately the Arriva service 22 from Hartlepool still has reliability issues still with the service being roughly 10 minutes later coming from Hartlepool to Peterlee.

Im more surprised that GNE hasn't took on this service between Hartlepool-Peterlee-Sunderland, also surprised that Stagecoach are still in content with their beehive of services in Sunderland and hasn't ran a service between Sunderland and Hartlepool as it would link up their services and give more better value for money if a Stagecoach pass holder wanting to travel between Sunderland areas to Stockton areas.

(24 Feb 2014, 2:41 pm)cbma06 wrote also surprised that Stagecoach are still in content with their beehive of services in Sunderland and hasn't ran a service between Sunderland and Hartlepool as it would link up their services and give more better value for money if a Stagecoach pass holder wanting to travel between Sunderland areas to Stockton areas.

I think thats the point though. The demand for that journey is pretty much non-existant. The X7 is evident of that. It is a tale of two services, with very little end to end traffic.

(24 Feb 2014, 2:53 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote I think thats the point though. The demand for that journey is pretty much non-existant. The X7 is evident of that. It is a tale of two services, with very little end to end traffic.

The X7 also provides evidence of a direct Sunderland - Peterlee/Middlesbrough express being rather profitable indeed and both Arriva North East and Stagecoach North East missing out on a trick.

Whether it's a popular decision between us enthusiasts and customers or not, service changes and new services being trialled can be extremely beneficial to bus operators (and hence customers in future - larger profits usually allow for greater investment back into the fleet) and most definitely separates the boys from the men in the industry.

(24 Feb 2014, 4:13 pm)Dan wrote The X7 also provides evidence of a direct Sunderland - Peterlee/Middlesbrough express being rather profitable indeed and both Arriva North East and Stagecoach North East missing out on a trick.

Whether it's a popular decision between us enthusiasts and customers or not, service changes and new services being trialled can be extremely beneficial to bus operators (and hence customers in future - larger profits usually allow for greater investment back into the fleet) and most definitely separates the boys from the men in the industry.

A increase in frequency between Sunderland and Peterlee would be good, as the last few times I've seen it it's normally been standing room only leaving Sunderland. Not sure about the Peterlee-Middlesbrough section though.

(24 Feb 2014, 4:27 pm)Tom wrote A increase in frequency between Sunderland and Peterlee would be good, as the last few times I've seen it it's normally been standing room only leaving Sunderland. Not sure about the Peterlee-Middlesbrough section though.

Peterlee - Middlesbrough is alright too from what I've seen and I suspect that's because of the gap between the X7 and X9 at Peterlee. Even though the X9 would get there faster, there's 20 minutes to wait.
I think the majority of fare paying customers wouldn't mind that 20 minute wait though as they can charge their devices etc whilst on the X9, whereas older passengers may just get on the X7 so they're not cold and they're safe in the knowledge they will get to Middlesbrough on time, as planned.

Middlesbrough - Peterlee is the disappointing bit, but that links in with the X9 departing 9 minutes before it...

(24 Feb 2014, 4:32 pm)Dan wrote Peterlee - Middlesbrough is alright too from what I've seen and I suspect that's because of the gap between the X7 and X9 at Peterlee. Even though the X9 would get there faster, there's 20 minutes to wait.
I think the majority of fare paying customers wouldn't mind that 20 minute wait though as they can charge their devices etc whilst on the X9, whereas older passengers may just get on the X7 so they're not cold and they're safe in the knowledge they will get to Middlesbrough on time, as planned.

Middlesbrough - Peterlee is the disappointing bit, but that links in with the X9 departing 9 minutes before it...

Possibly it could work if a new X8 service could be introduced from Sunderland to Hartlepool, an express service in competition with the X7 if/when Crusader Mercs come available?

(24 Feb 2014, 4:35 pm)Tom wrote Possibly it could work if a new X8 service could be introduced from Sunderland to Hartlepool, an express service in competition with the X7 if/when Crusader Mercs come available?

I think if the X8 was to be launched, it would have to be now (I mean, 4906-09 would be ideal given that they're already in a livery for an express service... despite their reliability). Give it a 6 month trial - if it works and passenger numbers are impressive like the X7, upgrade it to the Mercs. If not, then it's been a bit of a waste - but not pointless as you know the market doesn't want that kind of service.

'Nyway, back to Arriva....!

(24 Feb 2014, 4:39 pm)Dan wrote I think if the X8 was to be launched, it would have to be now (I mean, 4906-09 would be ideal given that they're already in a livery for an express service... despite their reliability). Give it a 6 month trial - if it works and passenger numbers are impressive like the X7, upgrade it to the Mercs. If not, then it's been a bit of a waste - but not pointless as you know the market doesn't want that kind of service.

'Nyway, back to Arriva....!

Anyway isn't there supposed to be some sort of GNE management who are members of NEB or something, would like to see their replies on the suggestions on here.

I thought Arriva services 22/23/24 are all supposed to be pulsars?, ive seen all types of buses getting used on service 24, and also deckers being used on service 22.

Maybe if Arriva stops withdrawling local bus services from local depots and using out of town bus services to go through estates which was previously used by local services and then deciding to close the depots down as out of town buses are being used, then the out of town buses are unreliable as their go through the estates, and all Arriva does is to start to pull the services out of these estates as its unreliable for the rest of the network.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:10 pm)cbma06 wrote Anyway isn't there supposed to be some sort of GNE management who are members of NEB or something, would like to see their replies on the suggestions on here.

I thought Arriva services 22/23/24 are all supposed to be pulsars?, ive seen all types of buses getting used on service 24, and also deckers being used on service 22.

Maybe if Arriva stops withdrawling local bus services from local depots and using out of town bus services to go through estates which was previously used by local services and then deciding to close the depots down as out of town buses are being used, then the out of town buses are unreliable as their go through the estates, and all Arriva does is to start to pull the services out of these estates as its unreliable for the rest of the network.

I don't think Arriva can really pull much else out of Durham - east or otherwise. Apart from the major corridors, the network is on the bones of its arse in my opinion.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:10 pm)cbma06 wrote Anyway isn't there supposed to be some sort of GNE management who are members of NEB or something, would like to see their replies on the suggestions on here.

I thought Arriva services 22/23/24 are all supposed to be pulsars?, ive seen all types of buses getting used on service 24, and also deckers being used on service 22.

Maybe if Arriva stops withdrawling local bus services from local depots and using out of town bus services to go through estates which was previously used by local services and then deciding to close the depots down as out of town buses are being used, then the out of town buses are unreliable as their go through the estates, and all Arriva does is to start to pull the services out of these estates as its unreliable for the rest of the network.

There are, but none of whom are involved in the creation/modifying of services, as far as I know.

22 - Pulsar
23 - Solo
24 - Pulsar/Omni

Those allocations aren't exactly stuck to though, with other vehicles being present on all three quite often.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:30 pm)aureolin wrote I don't think Arriva can really pull much else out of Durham - east or otherwise. Apart from the major corridors, the network is on the bones of its arse in my opinion.

It does kind of link in with what Andreos1 has said in the past. I agree and disagree with the point made, but if Arriva are withdrawing the local estate links and just sticking to the main roads (thereby cutting passengers off from their services), passenger numbers are going to fall.
Services 22, 23 and 24 may have been rather prosperous indeed at one point, but perhaps passenger numbers have fallen after these local estates have been cut out from their operation. I can't help but feel that since the X7's commencement, Arriva have tried to bring back passengers by new fare deals and the like...

Whether those new fare deals are working or not is a completely different story - let's not forget the tickets aimed at students were marketed a good few months later than they should have been, and seeing that passenger numbers still aren't excellent on services 23/24 (Sunderland - Peterlee more so) makes me think that it could have backfired and they're gaining even less revenue now than they previously did.

cbma06 lives in the Peterlee area and from his sightings, service 23 isn't a top performer.

Investment is the last crack at bringing back custom if you ask me, and of course the Solo cascades will help out with some of their withdrawals.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:30 pm)Dan wrote There are, but none of whom are involved in the creation/modifying of services, as far as I know.

22 - Pulsar
23 - Solo
24 - Pulsar/Omni

Those allocations aren't exactly stuck to though, with other vehicles being present on all three quite often.

24s are allocated DAF deckers too... One works the 24X too.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:36 pm)tyresmoke wrote 24s are allocated DAF deckers too... One works the 24X too.

You're right, but Lowlanders and ALX400s are common on the boards which do not require double decker operation despite this. Indeed the Geminis made a few appearances prior to gaining branding for services X1/X2 likewise...

Very much one of those services where 'anything goes'. Same goes for the other two as well.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:38 pm)Dan wrote You're right, but Lowlanders and ALX400s are common on the service despite this.

Very much one of those services where 'anything goes'. Same goes for the other two as well.

DAF deckers would encompass both Lowlanders and ALX400s so its not unusual. Same as specific boards on 56/57s are allocated them to do with college loadings.
The 24 is undoubtedly the strongest of the 3, the 22 is more of an express into Durham going direct from Thornley to Sherburn though. I don't have enough experience of the network out that way to say whether they're performing massively well or poorly and I suspect a lot of the people posting don't either. There's very much a GNE biased view coming across for obvious reasons,, obviously the network has been cut back but services have to be profitable to be able to run and therefore once you get a profitable network you can add to it, rather than constantly cutting like Sunderland has seen.

(24 Feb 2014, 5:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote DAF deckers would encompass both Lowlanders and ALX400s so its not unusual. Same as specific boards on 56/57s are allocated them to do with college loadings.
The 24 is undoubtedly the strongest of the 3, the 22 is more of an express into Durham going direct from Thornley to Sherburn though. I don't have enough experience of the network out that way to say whether they're performing massively well or poorly and I suspect a lot of the people posting don't either. There's very much a GNE biased view coming across for obvious reasons,, obviously the network has been cut back but services have to be profitable to be able to run and therefore once you get a profitable network you can add to it, rather than constantly cutting like Sunderland has seen.

See my edit - you got in there before I clarified it wasn't unusual for DAFs to appear on the boards which are usually operated by Pulsars/OmniCitys.

I think everyone involved in the discussion has said and will agree again that the 24 is the strongest of the three. I personally haven't had any issues with the 24 in regards to reliability (unlike cbma06), but the loadings are greater pulling out of Peterlee towards Durham than the 23's loadings are towards Hartlepool.

I don't think the views are biased towards a specific company at all, it's a mere debate on the performance of all three services but mainly the 23, given that it's currently said to be in-line for direct investment opposed to cascades (appearing most unusual to the fair majority of people who live in the areas service 23 operates in). I've certainly seen both sides of the debate in my posts...

In regards to Sunderland seeing cuts, Deptford's PVR hasn't reduced overall... It has been lost in some places, but gained elsewhere. Your argument for Arriva works in the exact same way as it does for Go North East, despite what you may think.