(16 Mar 2014, 3:07 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Considering the summer timetable is still TWO months away...

Hate to nitpick, but the Summer timetable will be in operation at Easter before the off-peak (winter) timetable resumes until the Spring Bank Holiday.

(16 Mar 2014, 3:10 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Hate to nitpick

Unusual for you to do that Tony, I must admit

Redcar fitters are busy getting 1743/4080 ready for the new season! If we're really "lucky" we might get an occasional Scania. Anything but those awful E400's!

(16 Mar 2014, 5:10 pm)robisdave wrote Redcar fitters are busy getting 1743/4080 ready for the new season! If we're really "lucky" we might get an occasional Scania. Anything but those awful E400's!

You mate have gone up in my estimation! The only thing the E400 is good for is your Wallsend to Chapel House or Killi to North Walbottle. GNE's B9TL's have had a bit of trouble with low gearing ratios on the TTX but other than that and one having to be sent back to Volvo out of 67 vehicles, they've been great. The only ANE route a B9TL would have slight trouble dealing with on a daily use basis due to constant high speeds would be the X15 but that could be reduced with the gear ratios being set higher. Any other route and they
would be a treat with very few reliability issues. The E400 with an ISBE is not a heavyweight powerful bus and it's only designed for town and city use. When it comes to endurance and trunk road routes, economy whilst important needs to be put aside to some extent in place of power and reliability. Could you imagine GNE using an E400 tearing up and down the A19 for up to 18 hours per day? They wouldn't even last 18 month.

(16 Mar 2014, 5:22 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote You mate have gone up in my estimation! The only thing the E400 is good for is your Wallsend to Chapel House or Killi to North Walbottle. GNE's B9TL's have had a bit of trouble with low gearing ratios on the TTX but other than that and one having to be sent back to Volvo out of 67 vehicles, they've been great. The only ANE route a B9TL would have slight trouble dealing with on a daily use basis due to constant high speeds would be the X15 but that could be reduced with the gear ratios being set higher. Any other route and they
would be a treat with very few reliability issues. The E400 with an ISBE is not a heavyweight powerful bus and it's only designed for town and city use. When it comes to endurance and trunk road routes, economy whilst important needs to be put aside to some extent in place of power and reliability. Could you imagine GNE using an E400 tearing up and down the A19 for up to 18 hours per day? They wouldn't even last 18 month.

That's how long the B9TLs lasted before showing signs of wear and tear... So you can probably suggest about 6 months instead.

(16 Mar 2014, 5:22 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote You mate have gone up in my estimation! The only thing the E400 is good for is your Wallsend to Chapel House or Killi to North Walbottle. GNE's B9TL's have had a bit of trouble with low gearing ratios on the TTX but other than that and one having to be sent back to Volvo out of 67 vehicles, they've been great. The only ANE route a B9TL would have slight trouble dealing with on a daily use basis due to constant high speeds would be the X15 but that could be reduced with the gear ratios being set higher. Any other route and they
would be a treat with very few reliability issues. The E400 with an ISBE is not a heavyweight powerful bus and it's only designed for town and city use. When it comes to endurance and trunk road routes, economy whilst important needs to be put aside to some extent in place of power and reliability. Could you imagine GNE using an E400 tearing up and down the A19 for up to 18 hours per day? They wouldn't even last 18 month.

Can you stop it with the constent 'E400s are c**p' bashing? The fact the original Ashington batch are going strong on the X18 as are 7505/6 (which were originally Blyth based) yet Redcar's 6 are knackered should point out where the issue lies - not in their engines more in the engineering department at Redcar depot.

These days, it's more economy that's the focus. Doesn't mean the more economic engines can't still have the power (Scania still offer a 320bhp engine for their range although all depends whether the UK opinions still have Scania engines rather than Cummins).

(16 Mar 2014, 5:28 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Can you stop it with the constent 'E400s are c**p' bashing? The fact the original Ashington batch are going strong on the X18 as are 7505/6 (which were originally Blyth based) yet Redcar's 6 are knackered should point out where the issue lies - not in their engines more in the engineering department at Redcar depot.

These days, it's more economy that's the focus. Doesn't mean the more economic engines can't still have the power (Scania still offer a 320bhp engine for their range although all depends whether the UK opinions still have Scania engines rather than Cummins).

I agree - I've used them on the X18 a few times up to Alnwick and they've been fine, even though the Lowlanders perform better, and I prefer 'em.

(16 Mar 2014, 3:10 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Hate to nitpick, but the Summer timetable will be in operation at Easter before the off-peak (winter) timetable resumes until the Spring Bank Holiday.

Don't know where you've got that from. The current timetable runs until May 25th.
Hence it being two months until the summer timetable starts.

Its true that 7494 has electrical problems but that's exactly why 7485 has been brought down to replace it. Things are being put in place slowly.

(16 Mar 2014, 5:51 pm)tyresmoke wrote Don't know where you've got that from. The current timetable runs until May 25th.
Hence it being two months until the summer timetable starts.

Its true that 7494 has electrical problems but that's exactly why 7485 has been brought down to replace it. Things are being put in place slowly.

The timetable that was released in March last year stated that it would run the "peak" timetable for two weeks at easter each year.

When the "peak" timetable ended a new leaflet was brought out with only the "off peak" timetable.

Arriva's website has a note under the 93/X93 timetable stating "This timetable runs from 6 October 2013 until 24 May 2014"

And that's true! The X93 will always be the same until Arriva wake up and address the issue. The E400's - wholly unsuitable for the demands of the route and ridiculous operating / timetable constraints - were brought down not to ease the overcrowding issues but because Arriva are too greedy to provide the logical solution of extra, and suitable, vehicles. Their record is frankly appalling and reliability has driven customers and consequently revenue away. It is difficult, given a similar situation, that this latest attempt will prove any different.
On a similar theme. What is the point in providing Sapphire spec service / vehicles on services 5/5a and what prompted the decision, after 50+ years to remove the M'boro-Guisborough-Loftus-Whitby services? At the expense of providing those living in Redcar and Saltburn with a direct link? More shortsighted, greedy thinking!

(16 Mar 2014, 5:28 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Can you stop it with the constent 'E400s are c**p' bashing? The fact the original Ashington batch are going strong on the X18 as are 7505/6 (which were originally Blyth based) yet Redcar's 6 are knackered should point out where the issue lies - not in their engines more in the engineering department at Redcar depot.

These days, it's more economy that's the focus. Doesn't mean the more economic engines can't still have the power (Scania still offer a 320bhp engine for their range although all depends whether the UK opinions still have Scania engines rather than Cummins).

I'm not saying that they're crap as a whole, it all depends on what they're used on. Every bus has it's limits as to what it can and can't do. The E400's are great of towjs and cities. Even the electrics are less tempermental than Volvo and Wrightbus. I once got on an E400 from Killi to the Coast Road on the 62 and it was a lovely ride. In fact, for town and city operations, they're lovely buses and the capacity and drive of them is beautiful for around the doors. The fuel economy is better around the doors than what the B9TL economy would be. However, I also got on an E400 from Brunton Park to Newcastle on the X22 and despite them having a surge of sudden power, they're not as smooth as the B9TL at high speeds and in terms of winding and progressive bends, they're not as smooth and freeflowing as the B9TL. The gear changes on all modern Volvo deckers are very comfortable and not easily noticeable. The B9TL betwesn Station Road and Benfield Road is smooth when it picks up pace progressively but smoothly at the same time. All Volvo Deckers from the Olympian right up to the state of the art B5TL have had that feel to them.

I like the E400 for town and city operations but for anything else, handling, power and good reliability is essential. A bus has to be taken for what it is. In fact, I agree with people on the GNE thread for Astromegas to be purchased as replacements for the B9TL's on the TTX.

(16 Mar 2014, 6:37 pm)robisdave wrote And that's true! The X93 will always be the same until Arriva wake up and address the issue. The E400's - wholly unsuitable for the demands of the route and ridiculous operating / timetable constraints - were brought down not to ease the overcrowding issues but because Arriva are too greedy to provide the logical solution of extra, and suitable, vehicles. Their record is frankly appalling and reliability has driven customers and consequently revenue away. It is difficult, given a similar situation, that this latest attempt will prove any different.
On a similar theme. What is the point in providing Sapphire spec service / vehicles on services 5/5a and what prompted the decision, after 50+ years to remove the M'boro-Guisborough-Loftus-Whitby services? At the expense of providing those living in Redcar and Saltburn with a direct link? More shortsighted, greedy thinking!

The 5/5A are heavily used services and therefore introducing the Sapphire brand to those is a reflection of their profitability and shows the potential for growth on that corridor.... There is very little cross-Loftus traffic to Whitby and the few that do originate mainly from Brotton. Nobody uses the coastal route from Middlesbrough, Ormesby and Guisborough because of the journey time, which is why the X93 offers a more direct route.

I can see the potential in a coastal link from Redcar and Saltburn to Whitby which explains why the Loftus-Whitby section was linked up with the X4. It will be interesting to see how that fares in the summer season, especially with the potential growth when Sapphire arrives on that service too.

There is a PowerPoint presentation on the web somewhere produced by North East (& Yorkshire) Managing Director Nick Knox which explains that the conversion of a route to Sapphire standard is expected to see 6% growth in year one, with an extra 3% in year two. I am told that the route here in the North East is achieving this, even with it being situated in more of a "challenging area" compared to the other 3 test routes, economically speaking.

The expansion of Sapphire in the North East this year will take it into new territory both physically and economically, however with the growth produced by the other test routes is encouraging. Other routes to gain the brand in 2014 include the 575 Bolton-Wigan, 110 Tamworth-Birmingham and the 12 between Rhyl and Llandudno, all different in their make up and areas in which they operate.

The X93 is a difficult service to solve with numerous issues, however the Enviro 400s came down to operate in summer 2012 with no major issues so nobody foresaw the major issues in 2013. They have spent a minor fortune on the route recently, not just with the engineering capacity for the E400s (one has had a brand new engine fitted recently for example) but also the spare buses to cover them on the X93 itself...

As we have seen though there is no buses specifically suitable for that route in the North East fleet, so its a case of finding the "best of the rest" so to speak. Which is why we've seen the trial of the VDL Gemini and now the Volvo B7TL Gemini. Hopefully in the future there will be a business case for investment in vehicles which are specified to handle the X93 and its unique challenges.

There are a number of "timetable constraints" which should hopefully be sorted for the 2014 season too, it will be interesting to see what the final timetable looks like. Everyone seems to think the heaviest loadings are out of Middlesbrough, and while this is true in part, there are some major issues between Whitby and Scarborough too. This saw at least one journey having to be duplicated last summer I understand because an E400 wasn't big enough to carry everyone! Obviously the issues with the E400s exacerbated the loading issues somewhat.

(16 Mar 2014, 6:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote There is a PowerPoint presentation on the web somewhere produced by North East (& Yorkshire) Managing Director Nick Knox which explains that the conversion of a route to Sapphire standard is expected to see 6% growth in year one, with an extra 3% in year two. I am told that the route here in the North East is achieving this, even with it being situated in more of a "challenging area" compared to the other 3 test routes, economically speaking.

Where is the 6% growth coming from? If I am right the Sapphire brand operates between Darlington and Durham with no competition from other bus companies, so the revenue cannot be coming from nicking passengers from someone else. If I am a car user, free wifi and power sockets would not get me out of my car on these 2 points alone.

Have Arriva done any marketing, reduced the fares or is there any bus priority on this route to make it more attractive, or are people choosing this service over other Arriva services in the area and have these seen a decline, and if not I am puzzled as to how 6% growth can be achieved.

I wish they would increase the waiting time in Scarborough because 8 minutes is not enough, as it can take longer than that just to load the passengers, also if the service is delayed en route to Scarborough it means the next journey will depart late and will run late throughout the whole journey.

Reliability really needs to be addressed as last year I had to wait for over an hour and a half for an X93 back to Middlesbrough, no buses turned up in this time until a Whitby bound 93 turned up which was closely followed by two Middlesbrough bound X93s!

(16 Mar 2014, 7:17 pm)citaro5284 wrote Where is the 6% growth coming from? If I am right the Sapphire brand operates between Darlington and Durham with no competition from other bus companies, so the revenue cannot be coming from nicking passengers from someone else. If I am a car user, free wifi and power sockets would not get me out of my car on these 2 points alone.

Have Arriva done any marketing, reduced the fares or is there any bus priority on this route to make it more attractive, or are people choosing this service over other Arriva services in the area and have these seen a decline, and if not I am puzzled as to how 6% growth can be achieved.

I believe its organic growth based on the increased reliability and premium product. I'm not aware of any fares incentives or anything like that though?

It's been marketed though as you would expect with an increased product. However you're correct in saying there's no competition on the route and the diversion into the DurhamGate development wouldn't account for that growth alone.

(16 Mar 2014, 7:25 pm)tyresmoke wrote It's been marketed though as you would expect with an increased product. However you're correct in saying there's no competition on the route and the diversion into the DurhamGate development wouldn't account for that growth alone.

Thanks, of course you could say there should be increased reliability with brand new buses on it without it been classed as a premium product. Just look at GNE's 58, lost mileage has decreased massively since the bendies were dropped and reliability has increased, but they do not market it as a premium service.

I may be wrong but I think Arriva offer something to businesses in DurhamGate to give employees cheaper fares.

Also the service now has decent new buses with Wi-Fi and plug sockets, where before the service had horrid old Darts that frequently broke down and the space between the seats were practically non existent.

(16 Mar 2014, 7:33 pm)citaro5284 wrote Thanks, of course you could say there should be increased reliability with brand new buses on it without it been classed as a premium product. Just look at GNE's 58, lost mileage has decreased massively since the bendies were dropped and reliability has increased, but they do not market it as a premium service.

It'd be interesting to see something like the X9/X10 marketed as a premium service though, when it comes the time to replace the B9TLs. With Arriva Sapphire and Stagecoach Gold brands expanding, it'd suggest that there's a market in providing a premium/business class service.

(16 Mar 2014, 7:53 pm)Jimmi wrote I may be wrong but I think Arriva offer something to businesses in DurhamGate to give employees cheaper fares.

Also the service now has decent new buses with Wi-Fi and plug sockets, where before the service had horrid old Darts that frequently broke down and the space between the seats were practically non existent.

Arriva (and Go North East) offer employee travel schemes to companies that set them up with the operators.

(16 Mar 2014, 7:59 pm)aureolin wrote It'd be interesting to see something like the X9/X10 marketed as a premium service though, when it comes the time to replace the B9TLs. With Arriva Sapphire and Stagecoach Gold brands expanding, it'd suggest that there's a market in providing a premium/business class service.

What extra would/could you offer?, the vehicles already have wifi and sockets as a standard service.

The only thing I can think off is better seating and increased legroom, but then I guess you then reduce the number of seats available.

(16 Mar 2014, 7:59 pm)aureolin wrote It'd be interesting to see something like the X9/X10 marketed as a premium service though, when it comes the time to replace the B9TLs. With Arriva Sapphire and Stagecoach Gold brands expanding, it'd suggest that there's a market in providing a premium/business class service.

What would make it a premium bus service though? Power sockets, free Wi-Fi and Next Stop Announcements are the make-up of the Sapphire, Gold and (partly) Platinum. Go North East are offering this as standard on most new purchases - the only thing they're short of is full leather spec seating.

EDIT: Oops - citaro5284 beat me to it!

(16 Mar 2014, 8:05 pm)citaro5284 wrote What extra would/could you offer?, the vehicles already have wifi and sockets as a standard service.

The only thing I can think off is better seating and increased legroom, but then I guess you then reduce the number of seats available.

Improved seating and a fresher interior is all I'd add. I find the legroom on the Geminis to be completely fine, despite finding it cramped on most buses.

My message to people moaning about the E400s:

As I have said on another thread, its not a fact that they are unreliable. Its just the buses aren't designed for the routes which is arrivas fault for putting them on there in the first place.

Everything has its limits. We can only run so far before getting tired. A bus that is more City designed would go onto City routes. Not long distance ones like the X93. The X93 is also quite hilly along the moors road which wont help either.

there's a market in providing a premium/business class service.

Arriva's introduction of leather seating on the 85/685 has backfired and they are committed to replacing these with moquette!

(16 Mar 2014, 8:13 pm)G-CPTN wrote Arriva's introduction of leather seating on the 85/685 has backfired and they are committed to replacing these with moquette!

If I'm honest, I was thinking more along the lines of Lothian's Airlink B9TLs. Proper leather.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27204054@N07/4907207255/

(16 Mar 2014, 8:15 pm)Dan wrote If I'm honest, I was thinking more along the lines of Lothian's Airlink B9TLs. Proper leather.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27204054@N07/4907207255/

E-leather, as used in the Sapphire vehicles and Stagecoach South Shields' 19194/6/7 and 27740 (and the cab seats of modern Stagecoach and Arriva vehicles).

(16 Mar 2014, 8:13 pm)G-CPTN wrote Arriva's introduction of leather seating on the 85/685 has backfired and they are committed to replacing these with moquette!

Those leather seats are proper leather, were very worn and slippery even when at Stockton 2 years ago.

(16 Mar 2014, 8:17 pm)Kuyoyo wrote E-leather, as used in the Sapphire vehicles and Stagecoach South Shields' 19194/6/7 and 27740 (and the cab seats of modern Stagecoach and Arriva vehicles).

Is that similar to Stagecoach Gold's seats too?

(16 Mar 2014, 8:13 pm)G-CPTN wrote Arriva's introduction of leather seating on the 85/685 has backfired and they are committed to replacing these with moquette!

The leather seats on them Omnicities are of a poor design though, very tightly covered and very slippy leather. Not the best idea for a service like the 685.
The Omnicities should all be refurbished this year anyway, including the 07 plate 4660-4.

As for comments on a 'premium' service, I was mainly meaning it is of a higher standard than the normal Arriva service. It is true to say GNE are providing the majority of these points as their standard product now though.

(16 Mar 2014, 8:18 pm)aureolin wrote Is that similar to Stagecoach Gold's seats too?

Yes, and on all new First vehicles as standard (and on their Platinum service as well). Very hard to slip off.

(16 Mar 2014, 8:18 pm)aureolin wrote Is that similar to Stagecoach Gold's seats too?

The leather seating on Lothian's Airlink 100 is far superior to the leather seating on the Stagecoach Gold seating in my opinion - though Stagecoach do a good job of marketing the leather as something special: 'Italian-designed Lazzarini Transito high back seats', 'Hand stitched Italian leather seats', etc. The old former Airlink Lothian Scanias with the luxurious leather seating are along the same lines as the Gold leather, if you ask me.

It just doesn't compare to the e-leather used on the E400s allocated to service X34 and 27740, and the leather seating on the 685 Omnis too.