(20 Mar 2014, 10:35 pm)robisdave wrote Regarding "prosperity" I did get it wrong! Should be posterity. To 'tyresmoke', sorry if I speak with a touch of scepticism and why will no pick up on what I say about the issue of connections between the 4 and 5 ? People have lost employment arising from this and Arriva won't respond.

I can't see much problem with the connections in Loftus to be honest, the only very long wait would be on a Sunday towards Whitby, which at 40-odd minutes is terrible.
The daytime connections are 15 mins towards Whitby and just 5 towards Guisborough (with the potential to 'chase' the 5 to Brotton of course, with the 5A just 15 behind).
Have to say having driven the 5 many times, the majority of passengers in Whitby were only travelling as far as Loftus and Brotton. I can fully understand the scepticism over the X93 though, but I am confident it will get sorted before the peak summer kicks in at end of May.
Can I ask what the problem with employment and connections are? Is it connections going wrong or just the length of journey time meaning you can't get to somewhere early enough??

The "problem" is, in my eyes, as I'm sure others, is in the time having to wait for a "connection", and to a certain degree the reliability of same with issues like late running services and what happens when services, particularlying those operating in the Whitby direction are full. I can understand, to a point that not many people were making the full through journey and one has to question just how many will make it when travelling on the new arrangements? We can only wait and see.
With regard to the employment issues, in part you answer this yourself in the length of journey time given what I say above; connect this into the issues I mention above, it may suit some, but not me.
Moving on to the X93 the scepticism will remain as it has for some years. Arriva have never truly addressed the issues and I doubt never will, it is a prime long distance service and should be operated / marketed as such, AKA the Yorkshire Coastliner, this has seen money invested over the years and no doubt the operator is reaping the rewards. To give Arriva some credit, it is difficult to see how they can invest in the service as it cannot, until something is done regarding the concessionary travel scheme; someone commented previously about the reimbursement operators receive in respect of this? I think it was in the region of 80p which kinda says it all!

(21 Mar 2014, 7:20 am)robisdave wrote The "problem" is, in my eyes, as I'm sure others, is in the time having to wait for a "connection", and to a certain degree the reliability of same with issues like late running services and what happens when services, particularlying those operating in the Whitby direction are full. I can understand, to a point that not many people were making the full through journey and one has to question just how many will make it when travelling on the new arrangements? We can only wait and see.

At a Public Transport forum in Skelton in February, a representative for Arriva told the audience that the demand received through feedback from passengers was higher than the current demand. So I guess there are a lot more people who want it to go via Redcar and Saltburn than currently use it from Skelton?

I for one can see the attraction of a coastal service and I bet it is well used come the summer, in both traffic to and from Whitby.

So the minority have to suffer at the hands (demands) of the majority? How does that work? I'm sure the service along the coast will be popular and hope the investment in new fleet justified Can't see how though when it'll be full of concessionary fares!

(21 Mar 2014, 11:03 am)robisdave wrote So the minority have to suffer at the hands (demands) of the majority? How does that work?

Without meaning to be facetious, I believe it's called 'democracy'. Example, x amount of people voted Labour at the last election. The majority of people didn't, so Labour aren't in power.

(21 Mar 2014, 12:55 pm)Chris wrote Without meanto to be facetious, I believe it's called 'democracy'. Example, x amount of people voted Labour at the last election. The majority of people didn't, so Labour aren't in power.

It's not democracy in the slightest.

One group of people have lobbied harder than another, and the powers that be have decided that they should rob Peter to pay Paul.

Capitalism in action.

(21 Mar 2014, 12:55 pm)Chris wrote Without meanto to be facetious, I believe it's called 'democracy'. Example, x amount of people voted Labour at the last election. The majority of people didn't, so Labour aren't in power.

Chris you are quite right. Decisions are generally made on the demand of the majority and its exactly the same principle in this case.

If the company can make more revenue running full length of the coast instead of the old arrangements, then i'm sure that will have swayed the decision quite a bit.

(21 Mar 2014, 1:13 pm)aureolin wrote It's not democracy in the slightest.

One group of people have lobbied harder than another, and the powers that be have decided that they should rob Peter to pay Paul.

Capitalism in action.

Is that not the way the world works though? I would say more economic sense tha 'capitalism in action' like. You have a resource, and you use that resource to benefit the majority?

(21 Mar 2014, 1:20 pm)Chris wrote Is that not the way the world works though? I would say more economic sense that 'campital in action'. You have a resource, and you use that resource to benefit the majority?

I wasn't arguing that. Just that it's not a democracy.

(20 Mar 2014, 9:33 pm)aureolin wrote I'm interested to see how long these B7TLs last up in the North East. Some of the examples I've used in London (Arriva or otherwise) are quite hammered already, and that's with their less 'demanding' routes.

I saw a video of either GNE 3941 or 42 on the TEN and between Dunston and Newcastle, rather than use the flyover, it had to go down and up the slip road to join the Redheugh Bridge. A B9TL or even E400 wouldn't have had to do that! I think it's likely that a move of 4 Gemini's from Blyth to Redcar will be on the cards or if they get a good going over and the new buses for the X18 get delivered, it could well be the 4 57 reg DB250's ending up on it because despite them being hammered of the X18, the powerful engine may make up for the age of them. Or on that note, 4 DB300's might get transferred from Blyth to Redcar and in turn, 4 DB250's from Ashington will go to Blyth.

The complete list of Vehicle identities for the Volvo B7TL's

7484 LJ51DHP Volvo B7TL
7485 LJ51DJD Volvo B7TL
7486 LJ51DGZ Volvo B7TL
7487 LJ51DHZ Volvo B7TL
7488 LJ51DGX Volvo B7TL
7489 LJ51OSK Volvo B7TL
7490 LF02PKU Volvo B7TL
7491 LF02PKV Volvo B7TL
7492 LF02PKX Volvo B7TL
7493 LF02PRZ Volvo B7TL
7494 LF02PLJ Volvo B7TL

(20 Mar 2014, 9:52 pm)robisdave wrote Doesn't that strike fear into your heart? The Geminis are beat up before they hit the hills of the 93 route and Redcar are "hopeful" of getting one on the road by the weekend. A long term solution? How's that? Another operator taking over?

I agree Robisdave - that seems the best solution!

(21 Mar 2014, 12:55 pm)Chris wrote Without meaning to be facetious, I believe it's called 'democracy'. Example, x amount of people voted Labour at the last election. The majority of people didn't, so Labour aren't in power.

The majority of people didn't vote for the Lib Dems either. Or even the Tories come to that.

(21 Mar 2014, 1:13 pm)aureolin wrote It's not democracy in the slightest.

One group of people have lobbied harder than another, and the powers that be have decided that they should rob Peter to pay Paul.

Capitalism in action.

And where is the democracy in the vociferous DDA lobby dictating that we should have low floor spartan buses rather than coaches, and many people losing their bus services due to the increased costs resulting from caving in to this lobby group.

(21 Mar 2014, 5:48 pm)Roland Pratt wrote And whee is the democracy in the vociferous DDA lobby dictating that we should have low floor spartan buses rather than coaches, and many people losing their bus services due to the increased costs resulting from caving in to this lobby group.

Your elected representatives debated and voted on this in the commons, it was further debated in the (undemocratic) house of Lords. Did you lobby your MP with your opposition?

The DDA was actually repealed in 2010...

(21 Mar 2014, 4:39 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I saw a video of either GNE 3941 or 42 on the TEN and between Dunston and Newcastle, rather than use the flyover, it had to go down and up the slip road to join the Redheugh Bridge. A B9TL or even E400 wouldn't have had to do that! I think it's likely that a move of 4 Gemini's from Blyth to Redcar will be on the cards or if they get a good going over and the new buses for the X18 get delivered, it could well be the 4 57 reg DB250's ending up on it because despite them being hammered of the X18, the powerful engine may make up for the age of them. Or on that note, 4 DB300's might get transferred from Blyth to Redcar and in turn, 4 DB250's from Ashington will go to Blyth.

The flyover approaching the Redheugh Bridge has a 10' 6" height restriction northbound (presumably because of winds, I'm not sure, and it doesn't seem to be signed southbound) so technically the TEN should use the left-hand lane via the roundabout, the route you saw on the video.

(21 Mar 2014, 5:30 pm)Richard Smiles wrote The complete list of Vehicle identities for the Volvo B7TL's

7484 LJ51DHP Volvo B7TL
7485 LJ51DJD Volvo B7TL
7486 LJ51DGZ Volvo B7TL
7487 LJ51DHZ Volvo B7TL
7488 LJ51DGX Volvo B7TL
7489 LJ51OSK Volvo B7TL
7490 LF02PKU Volvo B7TL
7491 LF02PKV Volvo B7TL
7492 LF02PKX Volvo B7TL
7493 LF02PRZ Volvo B7TL
7494 LF02PLJ Volvo B7TL

Thanks Richard - I've updated the site's fleet list accordingly. In this update I've also included the updated allocations for 23/03/14 too.

For the former Classic Coaches vehicles, I've left the registrations as TBA - once the speculated vehicles are spotted at Arriva for definite, I'll update the registrations accordingly.
Likewise for the homes of the Volvo B7s. Is 7485 still at Redcar or has it gone to Ashington yet?

(21 Mar 2014, 7:05 pm)Dan wrote Thanks Richard - I've updated the site's fleet list accordingly. In this update I've also included the updated allocations for 23/03/14 too.

For the former Classic Coaches vehicles, I've left the registrations as TBA - once the speculated vehicles are spotted at Arriva for definite, I'll update the registrations accordingly.
Likewise for the homes of the Volvo B7s. Is 7485 still at Redcar or has it gone to Ashington yet?

On the list received Dan 7458 is confirmed as T313FGN & 2503 is YJ51YWW

(21 Mar 2014, 7:05 pm)Dan wrote Thanks Richard - I've updated the site's fleet list accordingly. In this update I've also included the updated allocations for 23/03/14 too.

For the former Classic Coaches vehicles, I've left the registrations as TBA - once the speculated vehicles are spotted at Arriva for definite, I'll update the registrations accordingly.
Likewise for the homes of the Volvo B7s. Is 7485 still at Redcar or has it gone to Ashington yet?

7485 is at Redcar still, but is due to head to Whitby over the weekend.

As for the ex-Classic duo, they have possibly already transferred across today - they are now the only 2 vehicles moving across as only 1 school board and the NHS service is moving across.

(21 Mar 2014, 7:05 pm)Dan wrote Thanks Richard - I've updated the site's fleet list accordingly. In this update I've also included the updated allocations for 23/03/14 too.

For the former Classic Coaches vehicles, I've left the registrations as TBA - once the speculated vehicles are spotted at Arriva for definite, I'll update the registrations accordingly.
Likewise for the homes of the Volvo B7s. Is 7485 still at Redcar or has it gone to Ashington yet?

Dan, you need to amend the Reg No. for 7487 as it shows the same as 7486

(21 Mar 2014, 7:12 pm)Richard Smiles wrote On the list received Dan 7458 is confirmed as T313FGN & 2503 is YJ51YWW

Have updated the records accordingly, but with 2503's registration as YJ51JWW. Ta.

(21 Mar 2014, 7:15 pm)Kuyoyo wrote 7485 is at Redcar still, but is due to head to Whitby over the weekend.

So I'm up-to-date for now!

(21 Mar 2014, 7:17 pm)Richard Smiles wrote Dan, you need to amend the Reg No. for 7487 as it shows the same as 7486

My copying and pasting skills showing..! Amended 7487's reg to show LJ51DHZ.

(21 Mar 2014, 7:21 pm)Dan wrote Have updated the records accordingly, but with 2503's registration as YJ51JWW. Ta.


So I'm up-to-date for now!


My copying and pasting skills showing..! Amended 7487's reg to show LJ51DHZ.

We are ALL getting tired, too many Z's

(21 Mar 2014, 5:53 pm)aureolin wrote Your elected representatives debated and voted on this in the commons, it was further debated in the (undemocratic) house of Lords. Did you lobby your MP with your opposition?

The DDA was actually repealed in 2010...

Do you want my solution to DDA? Buy a couple of drivers to get to the Gym, buy a couple of Palatine 2's and when a wheelchair wants to board, they'll know the drill! Result would be very happy punters with very few breakdowns and better reliability!

(21 Mar 2014, 7:55 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Do you want my solution to DDA? Buy a couple of drivers to get to the Gym, buy a couple of Palatine 2's and when a wheelchair wants to board, they'll know the drill! Result would be very happy punters with very few breakdowns and better reliability!

I'm concious about going off topic here, but I couldn't let this comment pass.

Very happy punters? Are you actually being serious? I can't think of anything more demeaning to a wheelchair user than being carried on and off a bus. To improve reliability of all things.

Going back to the days of institutionalised oppression is NOT the way forward, and I for one am glad that as a country, we fought against it.

I agree with aureolin! And besides, good luck getting a wheelchair between the pole separating the stairs!

(21 Mar 2014, 7:55 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Do you want my solution to DDA? Buy a couple of drivers to get to the Gym, buy a couple of Palatine 2's and when a wheelchair wants to board, they'll know the drill! Result would be very happy punters with very few breakdowns and better reliability!

Totally agree Davey.

(21 Mar 2014, 8:02 pm)aureolin wrote I'm concious about going off topic here, but I couldn't let this comment pass.

Very happy punters? Are you actually being serious? I can't think of anything more demeaning to a wheelchair user than being carried on and off a bus. To improve reliability of all things.

Going back to the days of institutionalised oppression is NOT the way forward, and I for one am glad that as a country, we fought against it.

Institutionalised oppression? What garbage.

(21 Mar 2014, 8:08 pm)BJ10VUS wrote I agree with aureolin! And besides, good luck getting a wheelchair between the pole separating the stairs!

Well it was the disability lobby which first demanded poles in the middle of the entrance, and then did a total about turn.

I honestly can't imagine a 12 stone driver lifting a 15 stone person on a 60kg mini mobility scooter (which are allowed on GNE) on to the bus!

(21 Mar 2014, 8:11 pm)Roland Pratt wrote Well it was the disability lobby which first demanded poles in the middle of the entrance, and then did a total about turn.

I did not know this.

Do you care to point me in the direction of where this information is published so I can view it for myself?