Does anyone know of Scania's euro 6 offering as of yet?

(13 Apr 2014, 10:17 am)Davey Bowyer wrote I'd say that if the Crusader is going to be upgraded that it could well potenitally be E400's. I know GNE haven't purchased any Alexander Dennis double decks since 2001 but by looking at Volvo's offering at the moment, the E400 looks to be the right choice. They may not be good for any rural, high speed or long distance routes like the X1, TTX and TEN (Full 10 to Hexham); but they'd quite happily cope with the 27. However, if Volvo don't come up with a suitable heavyweight euro 6 chassis, then it could well be that GNE may forgive Scania for the trouble that they created for GNE with regards to the fleet at Stanley Depot depending upon whether or not Scania offer a heavyweight euro 6 chassis on any bodywork (most likely ADL E400) and whether or not the offering is the same or very similar to the euro 5 offering. If the above was to happen, then it could well be that the Red Arrows might receive an upgrade with 6001 to 6007 being the oldest B9TL's in the fleet next year allowing something like the following to happen:

- 6049 to 6051 making up PVR on ANGEL.
- 6052 being fitted with Tacho, power sockets fitted and allocated to TTX to make up PVR.
- 6001 to 6005 and 6053 to 6055 allocated to PRONTO.
- 6006 acting as a spare for the above potential order.
- 6007 relieving 3941 on light duties or a last resort spare for the TEN. 6007 would fitted with a Tacho and act as a spare for the TEN and TTX.

I think I've tried to suggest that Pronto idea in the past . To be honest though, I don't think it's a case of increasing PVR, I've always thought they've wanted to give better buses to the better services. New Gemini's on the Red Arrows would allow 6001 - 6007 to go onto the Prince Bishops and allow those Scanias to be displaced to various depots that desperately require extra buses and a couple of withdrawals perhaps, 6049 - 6055 on the Pronto would mean more sturdy well built vehicles for the long, enduring route (it's destroyed the Pronto Presidents). Fair enough the TTX needs new buses fast before those Gemini's are just driven into the ground (I saw 2 of them not in service in Riverside a few days ago). As the Angel is one of my local services and I use it literaly each day (hence my avatar courtesy of Dan), it sometimes feels like Chester just throw extra buses on to keep the frequency in case of bad traffic (I know that sounds ludicrous, but the amount of red Presidents that find their way on, as well as 3965 and 3962 (which people think are just spares in case a hybrid breaks down, they are actually put on each day to increase the amount of buses), ON TOP of then having all 15 hybrids out in service, you sometimes look at about 18/19/20 buses on a busy Saturday (sometimes it's just the 17 angels, but when there's been an accident a few vehicles normally get taken out of the depot to keep up with the lateness, they don't have to worry on a Saturday because there are no scholars to run). I can tell people will disagree with what I've just said in regards to the 21, but somebody else must have noticed a strange amount of vehicles on it.

(13 Apr 2014, 10:33 am)Marcus wrote I think I've tried to suggest that Pronto idea in the past . To be honest though, I don't think it's a case of increasing PVR, I've always thought they've wanted to give better buses to the better services. New Gemini's on the Red Arrows would allow 6001 - 6007 to go onto the Prince Bishops and allow those Scanias to be displaced to various depots that desperately require extra buses and a couple of withdrawals perhaps, 6049 - 6055 on the Pronto would mean more sturdy well built vehicles for the long, enduring route (it's destroyed the Pronto Presidents). Fair enough the TTX needs new buses fast before those Gemini's are just driven into the ground (I saw 2 of them not in service in Riverside a few days ago). As the Angel is one of my local services and I use it literaly each day (hence my avatar courtesy of Dan), it sometimes feels like Chester just throw extra buses on to keep the frequency in case of bad traffic (I know that sounds ludicrous, but the amount of red Presidents that find their way on, as well as 3965 and 3962 (which people think are just spares in case a hybrid breaks down, they are actually put on each day to increase the amount of buses), ON TOP of then having all 15 hybrids out in service, you sometimes look at about 18/19/20 buses on a busy Saturday (sometimes it's just the 17 angels, but when there's been an accident a few vehicles normally get taken out of the depot to keep up with the lateness, they don't have to worry on a Saturday because there are no scholars to run). I can tell people will disagree with what I've just said in regards to the 21, but somebody else must have noticed a strange amount of vehicles on it.

Not sure about the X9/X10 getting new buses already, its a long route and demanding but don't see them getting anything.

(13 Apr 2014, 10:30 am)Michael wrote not sure if the X1 would get new buses, although orders can change and new orders haven't being confirmed yet so you never know

A bit of a bugger when you know what potential vehicles are coming in the next year and cannot say and also having a laugh at all the different combinations you all come up with knowing what is going to happen.....

(13 Apr 2014, 10:42 am)citaro5284 wrote A bit of a bugger when you know what potential vehicles are coming in the next year and cannot say and also having a laugh at all the different combinations you all come up with knowing what is going to happen.....

, i bet

Why don't u share that info :p

(13 Apr 2014, 10:45 am)Michael wrote Why don't u share that info :p

And spoil all the fun......

(13 Apr 2014, 10:48 am)citaro5284 wrote And spoil all the fun......

It's not as fun when we're all repeating ourselves!

I'd actually say that Astromegas would be a great replacement for the TTX. Low floor, double deck, built for endurance routes and euro 6. They'd have to be on it for at least 15 year with a midlife refurbishment but it could certainly be justified if they were to be well looked after and it would certainly give the train a good run for it's money.

(13 Apr 2014, 11:04 am)Davey Bowyer wrote I'd actually say that Astromegas would be a great replacement for the TTX. Low floor, double deck, built for endurance routes and euro 6. They'd have to be on it for at least 15 year with a midlife refurbishment but it could certainly be justified if they were to be well looked after and it would certainly give the train a good run for it's money.

Just a shame they're so expensive!

(13 Apr 2014, 11:09 am)Dan wrote Just a shame they're so expensive!

They may be expensive, but you're paying for quality.

(13 Apr 2014, 11:17 am)Kuyoyo wrote They may be expensive, but you're paying for quality.

You think it's a good idea for 'quality' to be maintained by Riverside engineering?! Hahah!

In all seriousness, I really don't think the Tyne Tees Xpress could justify seven Euro 6 Astromegas. It's a good performer, but not that good.

(13 Apr 2014, 11:23 am)Dan wrote You think it's a good idea for 'quality' to be maintained by Riverside engineering?! Hahah!

In all seriousness, I really don't think the Tyne Tees Xpress could justify seven Euro 6 Astromegas. It's a good performer, but not that good.

I'd say that if no suitable euro 6 double decker is on the market when 6043 to 6048 come to be replaced,, then the TTX would actually justify Astromegas:

- Life span of 15 years.
- Initial outlay would be higher and midlife refurb would be needed but the above point would mittigate it.
- VERY FEW breakdowns and improved reliability.
- Appropriate gearing ratios.
- Easy Access.
- Good Capacity.
- Very Comfortable and would give train a good run for money.
- Vehicle built for long distance purposes.
- Fuel consumption not much more than a Palatine 2.

(13 Apr 2014, 12:01 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I'd say that if no suitable euro 6 double decker is on the market when 6043 to 6048 come to be replaced,, then the TTX would actually justify Astromegas:

- Life span of 15 years.
- Initial outlay would be higher and midlife refurb would be needed but the above point would mittigate it.
- VERY FEW breakdowns and improved reliability.
- Appropriate gearing ratios.
- Easy Access.
- Good Capacity.
- Very Comfortable and would give train a good run for money.
- Vehicle built for long distance purposes.
- Fuel consumption not much more than a Palatine 2.

Not sure on the "very few" breakdowns and good reliability. Megabus have been suffering from low availability over the last few months (just see how many times the M12 has been covered from Newcastle!) and that's on a far less intensive service than the X9/X10 are!
I reckon we're just going to have to live with the fact that nothing sustainable is available and they're going to have to make the best of what they've got. Buying new double decks every few years may turn out to be the best idea but that is expensive over time.

(13 Apr 2014, 12:46 pm)tyresmoke wrote Not sure on the "very few" breakdowns and good reliability. Megabus have been suffering from low availability over the last few months (just see how many times the M12 has been covered from Newcastle!) and that's on a far less intensive service than the X9/X10 are!
I reckon we're just going to have to live with the fact that nothing sustainable is available and they're going to have to make the best of what they've got. Buying new double decks every few years may turn out to be the best idea but that is expensive over time.

Or Volvo could simply tell Brussels to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and stick a D10-245 lump with a high gearing ratio ZF gearbox in a Gemini 3. Now that would be a bus and a half. I could just imagine a D10-245 in a Gemini 3 screaming and thundering away up and down the A19. The sound and feeling would be immense.

I'm not really sure if GNE would purchase a few Astromegas for the TTX, I mean I've been on them before and they are indeed very comfortable and pretty luxurious (alright, that may be a bit of an exaggeration), but the Astromegas are classified as coaches, and I don't think GNE are likely to purchase a bunch of massive double deck coaches. When you think about it, it's not gonna look very good if that's soaring into Gateshead Interchange after coming off the motorway. Also, I don't believe they've ever purchased from Van Hool, and that would break their recent 'Wright, Scania, Mercedes and Optare' policy of only buying from them (that's excluding the Olympians and Tridents etc, I mean like recent purchases in the past few years). If they go for a double decker, I think they'll pick this;

http://www.wrightbus.com/site/default.asp?CATID=31
(I know it's just all different variants of the Gemini 2, but I was thinking about the Tri-Axel one)

And if they decide to go for the coach option, one of these;

http://www.wrightbus.com/site/default.asp?CATID=48
(I know it's a school bus, but it certainly does seem to be quite sturdy and powerful)

http://www.wrightbus.com/site/default.asp?CATID=47
(The Eclipse Commuter can have standees when compared to the SchoolRun)

OR, they could just follow David Bowyer's suggestion, I must say that would be quite exhilerating to ride

Here is what Services I think will get New Buses in 2014, Remember there is 80 New Buses due This Year, and This Totals 80.
(Crusader/Fab 57/Lime/Red Arrows/Red Kite/Toon Link/M2/M3)

I then think the following cascades will occur.

Crusader Citaros > Prince Bishops
Prince Bishops Solars > GNE Corporate Livery

FAB 57 Renown's > Withdrawn

Lime Renown's > Withdrawn

Red Arrows B9TL's 6001-6007 > Pronto
Red Arrows B9TL's 6049-6055 > Angel/TTX/TEN

Volvo B7TL Geminis > GNE Corporate Livery - (4 for DFDS)

Red Kite Omnicities > GNE Corporate Livery (9/17)

Toon Link Volvo B7RLE's > GNE Corporate Livery (67/69)
Toon Link Renown's > Withdrawn

Former Centurion Renown's > Withdrawn

Wright Cadet's 8242-8252 > Withdrawn
Wright Cadet's 8253-8255/60 > Spare Role Elsewhere in GNE Fleet

What do you think Citaro5284, Surely not that far off am I?

(13 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Here is what Services I think will get New Buses in 2014, Remember there is 80 New Buses due This Year, and This Totals 80.
(Crusader/Fab 57/Lime/Red Arrows/Red Kite/Toon Link/M2/M3)

I then think the following cascades will occur.

Crusader Citaros > Prince Bishops
Prince Bishops Solars > GNE Corporate Livery

FAB 57 Renown's > Withdrawn

Lime Renown's > Withdrawn

Red Arrows B9TL's 6001-6007 > Pronto
Red Arrows B9TL's 6049-6055 > Angel/TTX/TEN

Volvo B7TL Geminis > GNE Corporate Livery - (4 for DFDS)

Red Kite Omnicities > GNE Corporate Livery (9/17)

Toon Link Volvo B7RLE's > GNE Corporate Livery (67/69)
Toon Link Renown's > Withdrawn

Former Centurion Renown's > Withdrawn

Wright Cadet's 8242-8252 > Withdrawn
Wright Cadet's 8253-8255/60 > Spare Role Elsewhere in GNE Fleet

What do you think Citaro5284, Surely not that far off am I?

Do you not think we will start to see the withdrawal of some of the older, non dda deckers too?

(13 Apr 2014, 9:12 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Do you not think we will start to see the withdrawal of some of the older, non dda deckers too?

I think this year's orders will see more direct withdrawals than cascades. I don't think we'll see the withdrawal of any Volvo B7s this year - just the remaining Olympians.

(13 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Here is what Services I think will get New Buses in 2014, Remember there is 80 New Buses due This Year, and This Totals 80.
(Crusader/Fab 57/Lime/Red Arrows/Red Kite/Toon Link/M2/M3)

I then think the following cascades will occur.

Crusader Citaros > Prince Bishops
Prince Bishops Solars > GNE Corporate Livery

FAB 57 Renown's > Withdrawn

Lime Renown's > Withdrawn

Red Arrows B9TL's 6001-6007 > Pronto
Red Arrows B9TL's 6049-6055 > Angel/TTX/TEN

Volvo B7TL Geminis > GNE Corporate Livery - (4 for DFDS)

Red Kite Omnicities > GNE Corporate Livery (9/17)

Toon Link Volvo B7RLE's > GNE Corporate Livery (67/69)
Toon Link Renown's > Withdrawn

Former Centurion Renown's > Withdrawn

Wright Cadet's 8242-8252 > Withdrawn
Wright Cadet's 8253-8255/60 > Spare Role Elsewhere in GNE Fleet

What do you think Citaro5284, Surely not that far off am I?

You've just withdrawn a load of buses in your suggestion, but not said what are you replacing them with?

(13 Apr 2014, 9:12 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Do you not think we will start to see the withdrawal of some of the older, non dda deckers too?

I can see the Remaining Olympians going obviously, Perhaps we may see the first few ELC Lolynes Withdrawn as Result of the Pronto/B7TL Gemini Cascades if the Red Arrows plan was to go ahead as we have discussed quite a lot by the looks of it.

(13 Apr 2014, 9:19 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote I can see the Remaining Olympians going obviously, Perhaps we may see the first few ELC Lolynes Withdrawn as Result of the Pronto/B7TL Gemini Cascades if the Red Arrows plan was to go ahead as we have discussed quite a lot by the looks of it.

No idea on the Red Arrows, but can see the Loylnes slowly heading off, if not completely this year, pretty certain they will be by the end of 2015.

(13 Apr 2014, 9:18 pm)aureolin wrote You've just withdrawn a load of buses in your suggestion, but not said what are you replacing them with?

Well no I haven't as I have stated in my Post what I think will get New Buses, And then Cascades Below, But I have noted Lime/Toonlink and Fab 57 to get New Buses, then obviously the Renowns on those Services will be Withdrawn.

Then the Volvo B7RLE's would go onto 67/69 to then Withdraw the Renowns on there, and as a Result of the Red Kite getting New Buses, that would allow for the Former Centurion Renowns to also be Withdrawn.

With the Crusader getting New Buses, that would then allow the Citaros to go onto the Prince Bishops, which would Result in the Solars on the 20 being Cascaded to other Depots, to further aid Withdrawals of Older Buses i.e. Renowns.

Then 10 New Buses for the M2/M3 would allow the 52 Reg Cadets to be Withdrawn also, And the Red Arrows Plan would also allow for Various Cascades/Withdrawals to occur.

(13 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Here is what Services I think will get New Buses in 2014, Remember there is 80 New Buses due This Year, and This Totals 80.
(Crusader/Fab 57/Lime/Red Arrows/Red Kite/Toon Link/M2/M3)

You appear to have missed off order which has been established on this forum for the longest period of time: service X66.

As we've already discussed, the operating costs of the articulated Citaros is massive - they have poor fuel efficiency compared to a light-weight single decker, increased driver costs compared to a standard single decker vehicle, and maintenance costs are high. This is the reasoning for investing in service X66; although the service was recently re-branded, the articulated Citaros were appalling previously. They needed the deep clean which they received, and it was a good opportunity to re-brand the service too - there were many vinyl marks (including some from London) left behind off previous liveries and the former livery had lost its touch.

This is common with all articulated vehicles. Although seemingly missed by most, Rob said in this post that 'the same could be said about the Solar Fusion on the X40 too'. Was this a hint? Maybe... You could argue that Go North East won the X40 contract on the basis that it was going to be allocated articulated vehicles - but most days we see that they aren't allocated, and when they are, vehicle breakdowns occur... Would Great Park really complain if they were receiving brand new vehicles for service X40 as Rob seemingly alludes to in his post?

In addition to the aforementioned post, this post by Rob also suggests that Go North East have something up their sleeve for service X21. We've not yet established whether this will be through direct investment or by cascades, but replacing the "Red Arrows" stock so soon does seem a little irrational to me - especially when the replacement stock perhaps won't manage the job quite as well.

Let's just remove services M2/M3 from your list too. Go North East typically invest in their most profitable services, unless there is a reason behind investing in a less profitable service...
I've previously said that they're the likely candidate for the "QuayLink" Versa cascades in 2015 - that is of course assuming Go North East don't retain the contract, and Nexus do not specify that new vehicles have to be purchased..!

The only way the Red Arrows would be upgraded is if Scania come up with a suitable euro 6 chassis and powerful engine on the E400 body and GNE forgive them for the parts trouble that they had a few year back.

(13 Apr 2014, 9:37 pm)Dan wrote This is common with all articulated vehicles. Although seemingly missed by most, Rob said in this post that 'the same could be said about the Solar Fusion on the X40 too'. Was this a hint? Maybe...

(13 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Here is what Services I think will get New Buses in 2014, Remember there is 80 New Buses due This Year, and This Totals 80.
(Crusader/Fab 57/Lime/Red Arrows/Red Kite/Toon Link/M2/M3)

Try again

I've just had a look at GNE's FB page and the TTX has brokek down again. They're becoming more common now and despite the D9B being a powerful lump, it's down to the ECU, gearing and general electrics determining the reliability of them on a very demaning route. I think they'll need replacing in 2016 like what people have suggested previously. I wonder what they will go for next. I think it could be the following:

- Double Deck Coaches (Unlikely)
- High capacity single deck coaches (Likely)
- Volvo B8RLE Eclipse 2 with the following changes for Monday to Saturday daytime journeys:

- Services X7, X9 and X10 would combine and form an upto every 20 minute frequency between Middlesborough and Peterlee.

- Service X35 would be reduced to hourly between Peterlee and Hartlepool. New hourly service X8 would be introduced operating between Hartlepool and Newcastle hourly. A 30 minute frequency would still remain between Hartlepoolband Peterlee.

- Services X7, X9 and X10 would combine and form an upto every 20 minute frequency between Peterlee and Newcastle.

I think the X9/X10 do 3 Full Journey's a Day, which in Mileage is 186 Miles in 3 Round Trips, 150 Miles of that a Day must be Motorway Work from Heworth to Middlesbrough and back, with a Few Minutes Stop at Peterlee and Stockton also, is it no wonder the B9TL's are Breaking Down so often, same with the B7TL's when they were on the X9/X10, no wonder with such a Demand Route like that.

B9TL Engine

D9B-260; D9B-310
Output: 260hp = 1100Nm - 310hp = 1400Nm

B9R Engine
Rear-mounted, 6-cylinder, 9-litre diesel
D9B 380HP 286kW (at 1900 r/m) 1740Nm

Maybe Go North East should fit the TTX with B9R Engines rather than the B9TL Engine, could be Quick Fix Solution to Reliability of the Service, rather than shelling out shed loads of Money on Coaches or Something.

Could the Toon Link B7s be cascaded to the fab 57?.

I think the following services To recieve new buses.

Crusader...14+2 spare Volvo B8 wright gemini (if available).
6 cascaded Mercedes Citaro to deptford for Laser, displacing similar number of solars into spare roll, displacing 6 B10s from active service.
8 cascaded to Crook for upgraded Pronto X21.
X66 & X40...5+4 & 1 spare Optare versa.
All remaining Bendies withdrawn.
Lime.....13 Mercedes Citaro.
All R reg B10s withdrawn & maybe V reg withdrawn.
Toon Link....13+2 spare Mercedes Citaro
5x Volvo B7RLE cascaded to fab57
All Toon Link & fab 57 B10s withdrawn.
Red Kite 9+1 spare Mercedes Citaro
All Scania Omnicity to Percy Main for 9/17.
Diamond.....14+2 spare Optare Versa
3 Cascaded Mercedes citaro to Crook for upgraded Pronto X21, which would operate every 20mins across the route (10 service 1 spare), B7s released would replace Volvo Olympians or Dennis Tridents.
1 cascaded Mercedes Citaro to chester le street for Lime spare
1 spare for Stanley based Lime service
9 for services 15, 15a, X30, X31, X70 & X71
All remaining Omnicity transfered to Percy Main
3885-3889 used to withdraw Volvo Olympians.

Total new buses 80.

The Lime will get 2 extra buses on the order because of its PVR.

(25 Apr 2014, 9:44 pm)Michael wrote The Lime will get 2 extra buses on the order because of its PVR.

I've included 2 spares from the diamond batch, 1 at chester & 1 at stanley. Thats why the new vehicle order has been left at 13.