(28 Oct 2014, 11:33 am)DaveyBowyer wrote Well the exact reason why I ignored Wrightbus for is becuase they don't have a suitable heavyweight double deck option on the market. I must say that I seem very impressed with the Metrodecker and the Merc engine combination. I don't know about the TTX but for other B9TL routes and routes like the Pronto, it would cope OK.

I still don't get why GNE didn't do a like for like comparison on the TEN with a B5TL and compare it with a B9TL.

Because they have no intentions of replacing the Volvo B9TLs on the "TEN" services.

But it would've gave a much more thorough comparisson between the two vehicle types though.

(28 Oct 2014, 12:52 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote But it would've gave a much more thorough comparisson between the two vehicle types though.

Why would operators compare between a Volvo B5TL and a Volvo B9TL, when they can no longer buy the latter vehicle? Operators don't trial demonstration vehicles to make a point to the manufacturers.

(28 Oct 2014, 12:52 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote But it would've gave a much more thorough comparisson between the two vehicle types though.

It's a bit like a business comparing Windows 8 and Windows 98 for their corporate network. Completely irrelevant, as the latter is end of life.

I'd say for this year, it'll be:
- Versas or B5TL's for the Crusader
- Versas or Mercs for X66
- Toonlink will get Mercs or Versas

And you all know what I think will happen next year but, lets just concentrate on this year!

(09 Nov 2014, 8:54 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'd say for this year, it'll be:
- Versas or B5TL's for the Crusader
- Versas or Mercs for X66
- Toonlink will get Mercs or Versas

And you all know what I think will happen next year but, lets just concentrate on this year!

The Lime is also getting new buses this year, same as the X66.. i think they'll be either versa or streetlites... not sure about the toonlink or crusader...

Moved above two posts to correct thread.

Now that the integral Wright StreetDeck is also available on the market, I wonder if GNE will get a demonstrator to compare it against the Volvo B5TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 3?

Whichever routes see investment, I think the company will opt for bulk buy savings and go for one manufacturer only: Wrightbus.

(09 Nov 2014, 8:54 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'd say for this year, it'll be:
- Versas or B5TL's for the Crusader
- Versas or Mercs for X66
- Toonlink will get Mercs or Versas

And you all know what I think will happen next year but, lets just concentrate on this year!

Reckon there is more chance of the Mercs getting a Repaint/Rebrand for the Crusader than there is of getting New Vehicles, take a look at the Blaydon Racers and Silver Arrows Mercs as an Example.

As for the X66/Toonlink i'd go with Versas to maintain Depot Standardisation as Dan likes to call it.

(09 Nov 2014, 9:20 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Reckon there is more chance of the Mercs getting a Repaint/Rebrand for the Crusader than there is of getting New Vehicles, take a look at the Blaydon Racers and Silver Arrows Mercs as an Example.

As for the X66/Toonlink i'd go with Versas to maintain Depot Standardisation as Dan likes to call it.

Or streetlites,

(09 Nov 2014, 9:20 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Reckon there is more chance of the Mercs getting a Repaint/Rebrand for the Crusader than there is of getting New Vehicles, take a look at the Blaydon Racers and Silver Arrows Mercs as an Example.

As for the X66/Toonlink i'd go with Versas to maintain Depot Standardisation as Dan likes to call it.

At Riverside, Go North East could invest in any of the 'mainstream' single deckers on the present market as they have Mercs, Versas and Streetlites there. If the Micro-Hybrid Streetlite delivers savings, might this be a good idea for GNE to look into?

Do also remember that, unlike Stagecoach, Go North East tends to invest into double deckers where it can be justified. There are a large number of journeys on the Red Arrows which perhaps don't justify the use of double deckers; however, there are quite a few that do. That is justification in the eyes of the company, providing the route in question yields enough profit to cover the extra costs.

(08 Oct 2014, 8:48 pm)Marcus wrote I found it easy to tell on my first ride of a B5 on the 21 (it was that Brighton & Hove demonstrator, could have been a B9 though) that they wouldn't be ideal. Fair enough it's a stop start route, but going backwards and forwards day in day out, pretty much every day of the year, bar a few at Christmas and the odd Sunday, I could just tell they weren't right for the route.....

The EYMS loan example they had was excellent. Can't recall what it was

(09 Nov 2014, 9:36 pm)gtom wrote The EYMS loan example they had was excellent. Can't recall what it was

The one they borrowed from EYMS was a B9TL. The Brighton & Hove example was a B5LH.

On the nemote of the Red Arrows and I know Service Suggestions would be more appropriate, but this is what GNE should've done for the CC last year with Citylink curtailed in Newcastle:

- 15 Mercs for a 10 min (30 eve Sun) Cobalt Clipper service 309 with X39's being provided every 30 mins from the board.
- 5 Versas for a 20 min (30 eve and Sun) Centurion 310 service.
- 4 Versas for a 20 min (30 eve and Sun) Centurion service 305 between Hadrian Park and Newcastle via Battle Hill then same route as 310 via High Farm. Evening and Sunday journeys via the Coast Road though like the 309.

- That would've formed a 4 - 6 min combined frequency between Battle Hill and Newcastle (10 mins eve and Sun).

*note

(09 Nov 2014, 9:25 pm)Dan wrote At Riverside, Go North East could invest in any of the 'mainstream' single deckers on the present market as they have Mercs, Versas and Streetlites there. If the Micro-Hybrid Streetlite delivers savings, might this be a good idea for GNE to look into?

Do also remember that, unlike Stagecoach, Go North East tends to invest into double deckers where it can be justified. There are a large number of journeys on the Red Arrows which perhaps don't justify the use of double deckers; however, there are quite a few that do. That is justification in the eyes of the company, providing the route in question yields enough profit to cover the extra costs.

The Streetlite was quite good on the Lime, so maybe a Micro-Hybrid version could be trailed.

I reckon the following could happen:
5 X Wright Streetlite Max for the X66 > Artics withdrawn.
15 X Wright Streetlite Max for the Lime, two spare > B10BLE's withdrawn.
9 X Wright Streetlite Micro Hybrid to the 82/83 > Cadets withdrawn.
4 X Wright Streetlite Wheel Forward versions to the 85/86 > MPD's withdrawn.
16 X B5LH for the Crusader, two spare > 9 X Citaros to Red Kite, 4 X Citaros to X70/X71, one spare > 10 X Omnicities to Percy Main for the 17, replacing B10BLEs, 3 X Omnicities for the 15/15A replacing B10BLEs.
15 X B5LH for the Toon Link, two spare > B10BLE's withdrawn, B7RLE's to 67/69.

I know GNE like Wrightbus but, they could do it like this with ADL:
- Cummins E300's for the X66
- Scania E300's for the Lime
- E200's for the 82 / 83 / 85 / 86
- Cummins E400 MMC's for the 27
- Scania E400 MMC's for the Toon Link and Pronto

(09 Nov 2014, 9:41 pm)Tom wrote 16 X B5LH for the Crusader, two spare > 9 X Citaros to Red Kite, 4 X Citaros to X70/X71, one spare > 10 X Omnicities to Percy Main for the 17, replacing B10BLEs, 3 x Omnicities for the 15/15A replacing B10BLEs.

The 15/15A is currently allocated Volvo B7TL Plaxton Presidents so in this case it would be:
3x omnicities replacing 3x presidents replacing 3 olympians which will be withdrawn.

(09 Nov 2014, 9:50 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I know GNE like Wrightbus but, they could do it like this with ADL:
- Cummins E300's for the X66
- Scania E300's for the Lime
- E200's for the 82 / 83 / 85 / 86
- Cummins E400 MMC's for the 27
- Scania E400 MMC's for the Toon Link and Pronto

Good plan, but I don't think Toon Link needs double deckers, and why have different chassis types, ads to engineering costs.

(10 Nov 2014, 11:31 am)Scott wrote Good plan, but I don't think Toon Link needs double deckers, and why have different chassis types, ads to engineering costs.

Because some runs of the Toon Link do require double deckers - this serves as justification for the company to try and go for double deckers, as they will expect growth on top of this.

I think GNE always seems to try and buy Deckers if they can justify it, as Dan said. Cobalt clipper, Fab56, Red Arrows are some examples of this happening. I'm confident if/when Prince Bishops is upgraded (I'm thinking 2015) the replacement vehicles will be deckers of some sort. Laser, Crusader, Toon Link could all justify deckers too in my opinion if/when new stock is bought. X66 is an exception due to such a short route.

For this years orders, I'd say they looking at a couple of priorities; Withdrawing of Olympian, B10BLE's & Ciatro Artics. Th
Therefore;
Lime Investment is pretty much guaranteed. An order may be already placed on this one? StreetLites?
X66 Investment is a likely order. Versas/StreetLites seem like obvious choices. I'd like to suggest the former although it could be the latter.
Pronto or ToonLink Investment could be possibility. Mainly for the reason of cascades. Deckers for both will be the vehicle choice I should think. Presidents from X21 could then replace just about all of the remaining Olympians, which can be withdrawn. While investment on the latter group of services would see the B10's withdrawn/cascaded to replace older vehicles and the B7RLE's onto another service such as Pulse services.
Fab57 may be an option, this could tie into the new brand and new vehicles on its sister service, Fab56. This will also free up the last remaining branded B10's.
This only accounts to approx. 50 vehicles.
So I can see scope for another service to be invested in.
I'm wondering if GNE will upgrade another minibus service? I'd say the Venture Solo's have went down very well with passengers. So I'm thinking could East Durham or North Tyne Links receive investment. Be roughly 18 vehicles or 12 vehicles.
This would then mean around 62/68 vehicles.

(10 Nov 2014, 4:21 pm)Drifter60 wrote I think GNE always seems to try and buy Deckers if they can justify it, as Dan said. Cobalt clipper, Fab56, Red Arrows are some examples of this happening. I'm confident if/when Prince Bishops is upgraded (I'm thinking 2015) the replacement vehicles will be deckers of some sort. Laser, Crusader, Toon Link could all justify deckers too in my opinion if/when new stock is bought. X66 is an exception due to such a short route.

For this years orders, I'd say they looking at a couple of priorities; Withdrawing of Olympian, B10BLE's & Ciatro Artics. Th
Therefore;
Lime Investment is pretty much guaranteed. An order may be already placed on this one? StreetLites?
X66 Investment is a likely order. Versas/StreetLites seem like obvious choices. I'd like to suggest the former although it could be the latter.
Pronto or ToonLink Investment could be possibility. Mainly for the reason of cascades. Deckers for both will be the vehicle choice I should think. Presidents from X21 could then replace just about all of the remaining Olympians, which can be withdrawn. While investment on the latter group of services would see the B10's withdrawn/cascaded to replace older vehicles and the B7RLE's onto another service such as Pulse services.
Fab57 may be an option, this could tie into the new brand and new vehicles on its sister service, Fab56. This will also free up the last remaining branded B10's.
This only accounts to approx. 50 vehicles.
So I can see scope for another service to be invested in.
I'm wondering if GNE will upgrade another minibus service? I'd say the Venture Solo's have went down very well with passengers. So I'm thinking could East Durham or North Tyne Links receive investment. Be roughly 18 vehicles or 12 vehicles.
This would then mean around 62/68 vehicles.

Let's not forget about the height restriction - I'm led to believe that even the "Loop" branded Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles cannot use the Centrelink due to the low bridge! This is the main reason why double deckers will never be ordered for the X66 service...

It has been suggested for quite a number of months now that all articulated vehicles should be removed from the fleet due to this financial year's planned investment, with all Volvo B10BLE/Wright Renowns new in 1998 being removed from the fleet too. I don't think it has been explicitly said that the Volvo Olympians will be withdrawn from the fleet, but I think it's somewhat obvious that their time in the fleet is limited now that they are supposed to be limited to scholars capacity.

I'll repeat what I already have done given that it has seemingly been missed... No orders have yet been placed for Go North East. Whilst I am doubtful that specific details of the company's will emerge on the public domain soon after they're ordered, I do think that there will be a confirmation of an order being made to give us a rough idea of when buses may start arriving.

With regards to the number of vehicles being ordered this year... Don't expect it to be high. The traditional timeframe for vehicles to arrive when only a low number had been ordered in that financial year is within the first four to five months of the year (January - May). When a higher number of vehicles have been ordered, they typically arrive from August onwards. August, September and October have now passed, and no orders have yet been made... What does this suggest?
Some of us may wish to cling on to the '80 new buses' prediction in the company's Quality Contracts Scheme response, but the fact that it's looking more Quality Contracts will be implemented in 2017, it could be argued that the company's financial plan may have had to be altered slightly.

(09 Nov 2014, 9:50 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I know GNE like Wrightbus but, they could do it like this with ADL:
- Cummins E300's for the X66
- Scania E300's for the Lime
- E200's for the 82 / 83 / 85 / 86
- Cummins E400 MMC's for the 27
- Scania E400 MMC's for the Toon Link and Pronto

I don't think that will happen.

To be honest with you, they could hold the X66 investment back for another year, as it probably isn't their main priority.

It's quite obvious that the Lime will receive investment, probably in the form of the 15 Wright Streetlite Max.  This would allow nearly 15 B10BLE's to be withdrawn, which is more than likely what GNE want.

The 82/83/85/86 will more than likely receive investment, but I'm not sure whether it will be new buses, or cascaded buses. I reckon the latter is more than likely. To allow this, I think 12 Streetlite MAX could be bought for the 42/61. This would allow 9 Versas to transfer to Washington for 82/83. In turn, Cadets could be withdrawn.

I think the North Tyne Links could also receive investment, with 11 Optare Solos being bought for the service, as I think this will go down well with the customers. The newer MPDs could go to Petelree to replace older ones.

I also think the Crusader and Toon Link will receive investment, in the form of B5LH's. The Citaros would go to the Red Kite and X70/X71, with the Omnicties going to the 15/15A and 17. In turn, three Olympians, and 10 B10BLE's could be withdrawn. The Toon Link B10BLE's would also be withdrawn, with the B7RLE's going to the 67/69.

I also think the 57 could receive some Wright Streetlite's and replace the dual door B10BLE's.

So in turn,
15 X Wright Streetlite Max for the Lime.
12 X Wright Streetlite Max for the 42/61.
6 X Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid for the 57.
11 X Optare Solos for North Tyne Links.
30 X B5LH for the Crusader and Toon Link. 
So 74 new buses. 

(10 Nov 2014, 4:55 pm)Dan wrote Let's not forget about the height restriction - I'm led to believe that even the "Loop" branded Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles cannot use the Centrelink due to the low bridge! This is the main reason why double deckers will never be ordered for the X66 service...

What is the Centrelink, is it a kind of Busway thing? Or just part of the route? Apologies if this is a really stupid question  

(10 Nov 2014, 5:15 pm)mb134 wrote What is the Centrelink, is it a kind of Busway thing? Or just part of the route? Apologies if this is a really stupid question

its that road that runs along the riverside.

(10 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm)Tom wrote So in turn,
15 X Wright Streetlite Max for the Lime.
12 X Wright Streetlite Max for the 42/61.
6 X Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid for the 57.
11 X Optare Solos for North Tyne Links.
30 X B5LH for the Crusader and Toon Link. 
So 74 new buses. 

Again, touching on one of my previous posts above, 74 buses seems irrational to me. I think it's more likely that the company will aim lower, after last year's huge investment.

Can I point out that the cost of one Volvo B5LH/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 comes in at a cost of approximately £275,000 opposed to £200,000 which was the cost of a Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (to Go North East's specification with high backed seating, Wi-Fi and power sockets fitted)? The only reason these vehicles were ordered for "Angel" service 21 was because the Green Bus Fund contributed to £1,000,000 of the cost in total... If they weren't ordered off the company's own back for the "Angel", you're sure as hell not going to see any other service receive these vehicles without government funding...

Surely the Micro-Hybrid version of the Streetlite would be more appropriate for all orders, allowing all services to benefit from more environmentally-friendly buses which see cost savings for the company, rather than some orders being the Streetlite Max and others being the Micro-Hybrid?

(10 Nov 2014, 5:15 pm)mb134 wrote What is the Centrelink, is it a kind of Busway thing? Or just part of the route? Apologies if this is a really stupid question  

The Centrelink; which if I remember rightly, opened in late 2006, and is an infrastructure project which runs on the south bank of the River Tyne, to provide an exclusive dedicated busway for bus services operated by Go North East.

(10 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm)Tom wrote I don't think that will happen.

To be honest with you, they could hold the X66 investment back for another year, as it probably isn't their main priority.

It's quite obvious that the Lime will receive investment, probably in the form of the 15 Wright Streetlite Max.  This would allow nearly 15 B10BLE's to be withdrawn, which is more than likely what GNE want.

The 82/83/85/86 will more than likely receive investment, but I'm not sure whether it will be new buses, or cascaded buses. I reckon the latter is more than likely. To allow this, I think 12 Streetlite MAX could be bought for the 42/61. This would allow 9 Versas to transfer to Washington for 82/83. In turn, Cadets could be withdrawn.

I think the North Tyne Links could also receive investment, with 11 Optare Solos being bought for the service, as I think this will go down well with the customers. The newer MPDs could go to Petelree to replace older ones.

I also think the Crusader and Toon Link will receive investment, in the form of B5LH's. The Citaros would go to the Red Kite and X70/X71, with the Omnicties going to the 15/15A and 17. In turn, three Olympians, and 10 B10BLE's could be withdrawn. The Toon Link B10BLE's would also be withdrawn, with the B7RLE's going to the 67/69.

I also think the 57 could receive some Wright Streetlite's and replace the dual door B10BLE's.

So in turn,
15 X Wright Streetlite Max for the Lime.
12 X Wright Streetlite Max for the 42/61.
6 X Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid for the 57.
11 X Optare Solos for North Tyne Links.
30 X B5LH for the Crusader and Toon Link. 
So 74 new buses. 

In regards to the 57, I can Versas being Ordered and the 57 joining the 58 under the Citylink Branding as discussed a few months back, as for the 27, I'll stick by what I said the other day and they'll get a Silver Repaint/Rebrand, Toon Link I personally don't think justifies the usage of Double Deckers, particularly on the 31/32, again i'd go with Versas.

(10 Nov 2014, 5:22 pm)Dan wrote Again, touching on one of my previous posts above, 74 buses seems irrational to me. I think it's more likely that the company will aim lower, after last year's huge investment.

Can I point out that the cost of one Volvo B5LH/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 comes in at a cost of approximately £275,000 opposed to £200,000 which was the cost of a Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (to Go North East's specification with high backed seating, Wi-Fi and power sockets fitted)? The only reason these vehicles were ordered for "Angel" service 21 was because the Green Bus Fund contributed to £1,000,000 of the cost in total... If they weren't ordered off the company's own back for the "Angel", you're sure as hell not going to see any other service receive these vehicles without government funding...

Surely the Micro-Hybrid version of the Streetlite would be more appropriate for all orders, allowing all services to benefit from more environmentally-friendly buses which see cost savings for the company, rather than some orders being the Streetlite Max and others being the Micro-Hybrid?

I didn't know the difference in price, could they get funding from the GBF?

And the Streetlite Max buses are bigger, and will cope better on the Lime?

(10 Nov 2014, 5:25 pm)Tom wrote I didn't know the difference in price, could they get funding from the GBF?

And the Streetlite Max buses are bigger, and will cope better on the Lime?

I don't think another round of the Green Bus Fund has yet been announced - whether this is linked to government funding cuts or something else, I don't know?

Go North East's "Drifter" branded Wright Streetlite Max vehicles seat 45 and allow 21 standees. Arriva's eco-friendly liveried Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid vehicles seat 44 and allow 23 standees. There is a single seat near to the front of Arriva's Streetlites on the offside. This accounts for the slight differences in capacity, but Go North East's capacity specification could remain the same as the current full-length Streetlites in the fleet.

What evidence is there to suggest that the Streetlite Max copes better than the Streetlite Micro-Hybrid? I'm not mechanically minded to know enough about this, but if the difference is all linked to the braking, then I can't imagine the Micro-Hybrid version to cope less well than the normal Max version...

(10 Nov 2014, 5:31 pm)Dan wrote I don't think another round of the Green Bus Fund has yet been announced - whether this is linked to government funding cuts or something else, I don't know?

Go North East's "Drifter" branded Wright Streetlite Max vehicles seat 45 and allow 21 standees. Arriva's eco-friendly liveried Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid vehicles seat 44 and allow 23 standees. There is a single seat near to the front of Arriva's Streetlites on the offside. This accounts for the slight differences in capacity, but Go North East's capacity specification could remain the same as the current full-length Streetlites in the fleet.

What evidence is there to suggest that the Streetlite Max copes better than the Streetlite Micro-Hybrid? I'm not mechanically minded to know enough about this, but if the difference is all linked to the braking, then I can't imagine the Micro-Hybrid version to cope less well than the normal Max version...

Are Streetlite Micro-Hybrid's not Hybrid?

(10 Nov 2014, 5:21 pm)Robert wrote its that road that runs along the riverside.

(10 Nov 2014, 5:22 pm)Dan wrote The Centrelink; which if I remember rightly, opened in late 2006, and is an infrastructure project which runs on the south bank of the River Tyne, to provide an exclusive dedicated busway for bus services operated by Go North East.

Cheers both!  Should be good for the speed and reliability of the X66 then