(24 Nov 2014, 2:09 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote Hate to say "told you so", Dan, but it was a lousy consultation and perhaps you'll realise that the sun doesn't always shine out of GNE's exhaust pipe. Their consultations have been progressively worse over the years. When they did the full ones via internet and leaflets I really thought they did care about what people thought, but soon realised they didn't. And today's one was the most pathetic ever; one man at 8.45 am who asked my friend where he lived, thus when he said "North Sunderland" only told him about those changes and didn't mention 2a/c or 38, although he travels widely across the whole network, as many members of this forum do, so our views, more informed than the average passengers, are at least as important. So if anyone mentions sampling techniques again, this consultation was total bollocks.

Have to say that I feel your comments towards Dan are unfair. Moving consultation from a faceless method to face to face was a positive step, and I don't think anyone could have predicted how unorganised it appears to have turned out.

There's been a variety of comments, whether they be positive, negative or neutral, and that's not a bad thing. I'd hope GNE (and others) would take note of those points, and take them into account next time they consult.

Whilst I didn't agree with the setup personally, I do think that an 8am start would have made sense, and for the reasons Dan mentioned. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the average working day is a 9-5, which would have given commuters a chance to take part. No one would have predicted them not showing up on time.

Survey Monkey is no longer practical alone for consultation, when focusing on a specific area. People in Russia or Australia could theoretically take part, despite not ever being likely to use a Sunderland bus service. I'd guess this was an attempt of another alternative, having previously used paper forms on specific services. It may be another case of back to the drawing board after today. Who knows?

Key to remember is that consultation isn't statutory, but voluntary. The reality is that they aren't required to do anything, but at least appear to be trying to engage.

(24 Nov 2014, 3:03 pm)aureolin wrote Have to say that I feel your comments towards Dan are unfair. Moving consultation from a faceless method to face to face was a positive step, and I don't think anyone could have predicted how unorganised it appears to have turned out.

There's been a variety of comments, whether they be positive, negative or neutral, and that's not a bad thing. I'd hope GNE (and others) would take note of those points, and take them into account next time they consult.

Whilst I didn't agree with the setup personally, I do think that an 8am start would have made sense, and for the reasons Dan mentioned. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the average working day is a 9-5, which would have given commuters a chance to take part. No one would have predicted them not showing up on time.

Survey Monkey is no longer practical alone for consultation, when focusing on a specific area. People in Russia or Australia could theoretically take part, despite not ever being likely to use a Sunderland bus service. I'd guess this was an attempt of another alternative, having previously used paper forms on specific services. It may be another case of back to the drawing board after today. Who knows?

Key to remember is that consultation isn't statutory, but voluntary. The reality is that they aren't required to do anything, but at least appear to be trying to engage.

your making me think of that advert that was on tv a few years back where alexander orlov aka Alexander The Meerkat where his uncle shouts out the word RUSSIA!!! dead loud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YZ710CJ0hM&list=UUs2hm6tj0qQ_gFl6rFKO6gg&index=203

(24 Nov 2014, 11:00 am)Michael wrote Bloody knew it!

I had a feeling the 20 to south shields would crop up again!

35 - surprised tbh, i thought it was doing ok, i hope they dont swap the 20 and 35 around.

Hmm, i know the X36 isn't used as well but wasn't expecting them to put it hourly to Newcastle....

99 - why don't they just withdraw it... how many times has it changed in the last couple of years?

I've saw the 99 a couple of times and the loadings are actually quite good.
All in all the proposed changes are quite good, and I like the cross-city style services. 

(24 Nov 2014, 8:22 am)Michael wrote Even though GNE tried a bus between Sunderland and Bishop Auckland with the X20... i wonder if a re-route; like yours could work.

Yeah, the reason the X20 didn't work is because it was only hourly and most people travelling between Durham and Sunderland would just use the 20 because it isn't much slower, and it's a much more frequent service. With this one, it'd open a new link between Peterlee and Bishop Auckland, and pick up the 21 passengers. 

Yeah, the reason the X20 didn't work is because it was only hourly and most people travelling between Durham and Sunderland would just use the 20 because it isn't much slower, and it's a much more frequent service.

Also I don't think it picked up many passengers wanting to travel to Sunderland from the Bishop Auckland to Durham part of the route, that and I think they saw potential in a half hourly X21 to Newcastle from Bishop Auckland.

This ridiculous "consultation", and the fact that GNE are again messing around with services in Sunderland, is pushing me towards supporting the principle of Quality Contracts, although I still don't think it will work, as proposed, in practice and is unaffordable.

(24 Nov 2014, 1:31 pm)Dan wrote As someone who was previously less cynical about the consultation being held in Park Lane, I think it stands to reason that my negative opinions (having attended the consultation) are potentially less bias than what could have been expected from others...

For reasons unknown, Go North East did not turn up on time this morning. I'm not sure when the consultation team arrived, but it certainly wasn't before 08:10am, which is when I arrived travelling to school. The opinions of a large number of commuters were therefore potentially missed, and the audience of the consultation will be more limited now, I'd imagine...

I decided to attend the consultation during my lunch break instead. A vertical banner (not sure what they're called) was set up near Stand L in Park Lane, with two employees present. One employee (who is a regular face at publicity launches and such) was busy talking to someone, and another (Deptford-based) was at the table showing a Sunderland Councillor the proposed changes, ahead of a meeting next Thursday to make a final decision on the proposed route changes. It was good to have the employee from Sunderland present, as I'd guess he had a better local knowledge than the other employee possibly did.
Having arrived half way through the councillor's discussion with the Go North East employee, I managed to pick up a few things which I otherwise would not have done... After the councillor left, I was asked where I live, to which I responded 'Near the Stadium of Light', and I was told that there would be no changes to me other than the number of the service. The chat was all of 15-seconds in length, and I was extremely disappointed that there was no opportunity for me to go through the proposed route changes in full like the councillor did. I feel this was perhaps done to minimise the amount of irrelevant feedback which could have been gathered, though in the past (with printed leaflets), we've been able to see the full picture...
All in all, I was extremely disappointed with the consultation. I had no opportunity to give my feedback, despite there being forms on the table ready to be filled out... I shall be sending an e-mail to Customer Services tonight to voice my concerns with this method of consultation, as it really wasn't as good as I thought it potentially could have been.

• The 20/35 merge was expected, for the aforementioned suggestion of it increasing the likelihood of investment being viable (providing passenger numbers - and hence profit levels - increase). Reliability and lost mileage on these services isn't as bad as is being made out above, other than during peak times (when service 20 tends to struggle a little more). As I have already suggested, the Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles don't struggle at all, despite what is suggested on this forum, and the revised route shouldn't be too much more difficult to cope with, either...
  
  
• The 2A/2C / 42 merge wasn't as expected, though it's something I personally would like to see. Reliability is pretty solid during the day time and the majority of buses have time to lay over at either end of the route on services 2A/2C, so this would work well.
  
  
• Service 99 being curtailed - wasn't someone suggesting on Go North East's Facebook page that this service has full loads? Not impressed to see changes being made when very few customers from this route are going to be there to contribute.
  
  
• Service X36 having its frequency reduced comes as a surprise, as the loadings I have witnessed have been quite decent (albeit full of pensioners rather than fare-paying passengers).
  
  
• The 38 extending to Houghton-le-Spring / nPower replacing the 35A on an half-hourly frequency combined with the 238 (from what I could make out) isn't too bad...
  

I played it the clever way and stated that was a Bus Enthusiast representing a Local Forum known as NEB, I also stated that the Consultation was a Topic of Conversation on Forum at Present, and proceeded to show the GNE Employee this Thread, and as he was quite impressed by my Interest and Enthusiasm towards the Consultation, he kindly wrote every single proposed Service Change on the back of the Questionaire, and I can see that quite a few missing from the list which I have Highlighted in your Post Dan, so I will update below, I also provided him with a few Suggestions of my Own, which he politely took off me and said he would pass it on to Management.

The Changes are therefore as follows.

Old Service 33 (Magic Roundabout) will be Reinstated with an Extension to Doxford Park replacing the 29

20/20A will replace the Laser 35s between Sunderland and South Shields, Sunderland to Durham link has no Changes

Laser 35s will Operate from Low Moorsley to Boldon Asda replacing the 29, the other 35 will be Numbered 36 and will Operate from Town End Farm to Houghton le Spring via Sunderland and Extend down from Houghton to Chester le Street replacing Service 71

Silver Arrows 2A/2C will Extend from Sunderland to Silksworth replacing Service 42

Service 38 will Extend from Tunstall Village to Houghton le Spring replacing the 238

X36 will be Reduced to an Hourly Frequency between Sunderland and Newcastle, but will remain Half Hourly between Sunderland and Downhill

As for the 99, I wasnt told anything about that one I am afraid


#DoIGetSomeNEBBrownyPointsForMyHardWork
#HashtagsOnNEB

(24 Nov 2014, 6:53 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote I played it the clever way and stated that was a Bus Enthusiast representing a Local Forum known as NEB, I also stated that the Consultation was a Topic of Conversation on Forum at Present, and proceeded to show the GNE Employee this Thread, and as he was quite impressed by my Interest and Enthusiasm towards the Consultation, he kindly wrote every single proposed Service Change on the back of the Questionaire, and I can see that quite a few missing from the list which I have Highlighted in your Post Dan, so I will update below, I also provided him with a few Suggestions of my Own, which he politely took off me and said he would pass it on to Management.

The Changes are therefore as follows.

Old Service 33 (Magic Roundabout) will be Reinstated with an Extension to Doxford Park replacing the 29

20/20A will replace the Laser 35s between Sunderland and South Shields, Sunderland to Durham link has no Changes

Laser 35s will Operate from Low Moorsley to Boldon Asda replacing the 29, the other 35 will be Numbered 36 and will Operate from Town End Farm to Houghton le Spring via Sunderland and Extend down from Houghton to Chester le Street replacing Service 71

Silver Arrows 2A/2C will Extend from Sunderland to Silksworth replacing Service 42

Service 38 will Extend from Tunstall Village to Houghton le Spring replacing the 238

X36 will be Reduced to an Hourly Frequency between Sunderland and Newcastle, but will remain Half Hourly between Sunderland and Downhill

As for the 99, I wasnt told anything about that one I am afraid


#DoIGetSomeNEBBrownyPointsForMyHardWork
#HashtagsOnNEB

Oh god, i cursed the North Sunderland routes! hahaha!

I have to say i like that idea for the 35's.

So they replacing the 29 with the 35?... every 15 mins and Citaros.... RIGHTS! 

(24 Nov 2014, 6:53 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote I played it the clever way and stated that was a Bus Enthusiast representing a Local Forum known as NEB, I also stated that the Consultation was a Topic of Conversation on Forum at Present, and proceeded to show the GNE Employee this Thread, and as he was quite impressed by my Interest and Enthusiasm towards the Consultation, he kindly wrote every single proposed Service Change on the back of the Questionaire, and I can see that quite a few missing from the list which I have Highlighted in your Post Dan, so I will update below, I also provided him with a few Suggestions of my Own, which he politely took off me and said he would pass it on to Management.

The Changes are therefore as follows.

Old Service 33 (Magic Roundabout) will be Reinstated with an Extension to Doxford Park replacing the 29

20/20A will replace the Laser 35s between Sunderland and South Shields, Sunderland to Durham link has no Changes

Laser 35s will Operate from Low Moorsley to Boldon Asda replacing the 29, the other 35 will be Numbered 36 and will Operate from Town End Farm to Houghton le Spring via Sunderland and Extend down from Houghton to Chester le Street replacing Service 71

Silver Arrows 2A/2C will Extend from Sunderland to Silksworth replacing Service 42

Service 38 will Extend from Tunstall Village to Houghton le Spring replacing the 238

X36 will be Reduced to an Hourly Frequency between Sunderland and Newcastle, but will remain Half Hourly between Sunderland and Downhill

As for the 99, I wasnt told anything about that one I am afraid


#DoIGetSomeNEBBrownyPointsForMyHardWork
#HashtagsOnNEB

I would like to see a bit more variety in Chester-le-Street, and if Service 71 is warped into to the Laser brand, I reckon it'll make a nice touch.

Can't imagine the 71 lasting much longer by itself, to be fair.

(24 Nov 2014, 6:57 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote I would like to see a bit more variety in Chester-le-Street, and if Service 71 is warped into to the Laser brand, I reckon it'll make a nice touch.

Can't imagine the 71 lasting much longer by itself, to be fair.

To be honest with you, I can't see the 71 being warped into the laser brand. Maybe into the East Durham brand, yes, as I think it will be a huge benefit to the 71 if it was extended to Seaham, replacing the 238. 

(24 Nov 2014, 6:59 pm)Tom wrote To be honest with you, I can't see the 71 being warped into the laser brand. Maybe into the East Durham brand, yes, as I think it will be a huge benefit to the 71 if it was extended to Seaham, replacing the 238. 

Not sure whether to agree with you or not, as the two GNE Representatives were persistently saying "This will be Happening" or Words of a similar nature to describe what they had planned, rather than saying "We are planning these Changes to your Service", I would therefore think depending on others opinions from the Consultation these changes may go ahead with a few minor Alterations, did anyone else who attended the Consultation notice this, or was it just me.

(24 Nov 2014, 7:21 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Not sure whether to agree with you or not, as the two GNE Representatives were persistently saying "This will be Happening" or Words of a similar nature to describe what they had planned, rather than saying "We are planning these Changes to your Service", I would therefore think depending on others opinions from the Consultation these changes may go ahead with a few minor Alterations, did anyone else who attended the Consultation notice this, or was it just me.

Well i went at 8am and no one was there, i waited till about 8:15am but then had to get the bus.... =(

I can confirm there is a proposal for a new service 33 linking Doxford park and Silksworth to start in January. 
On the subject of these changes mentioned today I like the 29 and 42 in there present form. I'd be disappointed if we lose these

(24 Nov 2014, 7:27 pm)Acky81 wrote I can confirm there is a proposal for a new service 33 linking Doxford park and Silksworth to start in January. 
On the subject of these changes mentioned today I like the 29 and 42 in there present form. I'd be disappointed if we lose these

That's a bit quick if it's starting in January... here is the list of proposed changes: From NEBCD Malarkey 

I played it the clever way and stated that was a Bus Enthusiast representing a Local Forum known as NEB, I also stated that the Consultation was a Topic of Conversation on Forum at Present, and proceeded to show the GNE Employee this Thread, and as he was quite impressed by my Interest and Enthusiasm towards the Consultation, he kindly wrote every single proposed Service Change on the back of the Questionaire, and I can see that quite a few missing from the list which I have Highlighted in your Post Dan, so I will update below, I also provided him with a few Suggestions of my Own, which he politely took off me and said he would pass it on to Management.


The Changes are therefore as follows.

Old Service 33 (Magic Roundabout) will be Reinstated with an Extension to Doxford Park replacing the 29

20/20A will replace the Laser 35s between Sunderland and South Shields, Sunderland to Durham link has no Changes

Laser 35s will Operate from Low Moorsley to Boldon Asda replacing the 29, the other 35 will be Numbered 36 and will Operate from Town End Farm to Houghton le Spring via Sunderland and Extend down from Houghton to Chester le Street replacing Service 71

Silver Arrows 2A/2C will Extend from Sunderland to Silksworth replacing Service 42

Service 38 will Extend from Tunstall Village to Houghton le Spring replacing the 238

X36 will be Reduced to an Hourly Frequency between Sunderland and Newcastle, but will remain Half Hourly between Sunderland and Downhill

As for the 99, I wasnt told anything about that one I am afraid


#DoIGetSomeNEBBrownyPointsForMyHardWork
#HashtagsOnNEB

(24 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm)Michael wrote That's a bit quick if it's starting in January...

The service changes are due to be confirmed next week, operational from the end of January.

(24 Nov 2014, 7:32 pm)Dan wrote The service changes are due to be confirmed next week, operational from the end of January.

To me, it says... changes were confirmed before they even did it... 

U know this 35/36 service, will they both go through Castletown or will the 35 go one way and the 36 a different way?

Gonna try and work out the PVR's.... gave up... looks like some will shoot up and some will go down... frequency for the services hasn't being reveled. 

(24 Nov 2014, 7:33 pm)Michael wrote To me, it says... changes were confirmed before they even did it... 

U know this 35/36 service, will they both go through Castletown or will the 35 go one way and the 36 a different way?

Gonna try and work out the PVR's.... gave up... looks like some will shoot up and some will go down... frequency for the services hasn't being reveled. 

Id assume so Dan, Only the start/finishing points were mentioned by the GNE Reps.

(24 Nov 2014, 3:03 pm)aureolin wrote Have to say that I feel your comments towards Dan are unfair. Moving consultation from a faceless method to face to face was a positive step, and I don't think anyone could have predicted how unorganised it appears to have turned out.

There's been a variety of comments, whether they be positive, negative or neutral, and that's not a bad thing. I'd hope GNE (and others) would take note of those points, and take them into account next time they consult.

Whilst I didn't agree with the setup personally, I do think that an 8am start would have made sense, and for the reasons Dan mentioned. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the average working day is a 9-5, which would have given commuters a chance to take part. No one would have predicted them not showing up on time.

Survey Monkey is no longer practical alone for consultation, when focusing on a specific area. People in Russia or Australia could theoretically take part, despite not ever being likely to use a Sunderland bus service. I'd guess this was an attempt of another alternative, having previously used paper forms on specific services. It may be another case of back to the drawing board after today. Who knows?

Key to remember is that consultation isn't statutory, but voluntary. The reality is that they aren't required to do anything, but at least appear to be trying to engage.

Haven't you heard of the Vladivostock-Moscow-St Petersburg-Sunderland and Sydney-Perth-Sunderland services that run every 10 minutes and takes 1 week and 3 weeks respectively...Both very well used round Marley Pots, Carley Hill and Witherwack, the service was introduced on the back of a Malarkey Suggestion iirc...

Here is the proposal 

(24 Nov 2014, 7:33 pm)Michael wrote To me, it says... changes were confirmed before they even did it... 

U know this 35/36 service, will they both go through Castletown or will the 35 go one way and the 36 a different way?

Gonna try and work out the PVR's.... gave up... looks like some will shoot up and some will go down... frequency for the services hasn't being reveled. 

Trust me, they're far from confirmed.

Whilst this consultation has seemingly allowed for little feedback from customers (due to the way it has been carried out), the decider will lie with local councillors and Nexus next Thursday, I'd imagine.

Is it just me or service 33 doesn't exist anymore.

(24 Nov 2014, 7:56 pm)cbma06 wrote Is it just me or service 33 doesn't exist anymore.

It doesnt, but GNE want to reinstate it.

(24 Nov 2014, 7:50 pm)Dan wrote Trust me, they're far from confirmed.

Whilst this consultation has seemingly allowed for little feedback from customers (due to the way it has been carried out), the decider will lie with local councillors and Nexus next Thursday, I'd imagine.

Ah right so it might not be next week, if they're far from confirmed? 

Wonder if anyone can find out the frequency's for the proposed changes?

(24 Nov 2014, 8:00 pm)Michael wrote Ah right so it might not be next week, if they're far from confirmed? 

Wonder if anyone can find out the frequency's for the proposed changes?

They're 'far from confirmed' at present, though are due to be confirmed (from what I picked up today) next week after a meeting on Thursday with Sunderland's local councillors and Nexus...

Well on the facebook page of the doxford and tunstall residents page it says:

"There is a new bus route proposal to extend the 33 between Doxford and Silksworth. If it goes ahead the new service start in January and will help people needing to use public transport to get to the doctor's surgeries in Silksworth without having to change busses. Please let us know if you support the proposal."

extend the 33, how can you extend the 33 when it doesn't exist.

Not even sure who the operator from Doxford to Silksworth will be. Just seems funny how 33 has been mentioned today

Totally agree it doesn't exist I just noticed the post the other day mate. It's all bizarre

To be fair Michael I'd rather keep the 29 and 42

just wondering if its a typo and its supposed to say service 37 instead of service 33, the 37 could easily be extended from Doxford park to Silksworth?

That's a good shout cbma06