(05 Dec 2014, 11:42 am)Andreos1 wrote One thing I noticed, was that the 71 wasn't amongst the cancellations.

Not reading too much into it, as you say - more changes may be added.

VOSA are behind - service 71 has been cancelled and replaced by the new service.

So far,

Cancellations: 
20/20A
35/35A/35B/35C
29/29A
2A/2C
42
99

New Registrations: 
20: Durham-South Shields
2: Washington-Silksworth
35: Low Moorsley or Chester Le Street-Town End Farm/Boldon/Heworth
99: Castletown-Seaburn

Variations: 
Route and timetable amendments on 50/50A, X36. 
Timetable amendments on X35/835, 56/N56, 61, 39/RM2, 8/8A, S1. 
Route amendments on 21/N21

(05 Dec 2014, 12:42 pm)Drifter60 wrote So far,

Cancellations: 
20/20A
35/35A/35B/35C
29/29A
2A/2C
42
99

New Registrations: 
20: Durham-South Shields
2: Washington-Silksworth
35: Low Moorsley or Chester Le Street-Town End Farm/Boldon/Heworth
99: Castletown-Seaburn

Variations: 
Route and timetable amendments on 50/50A, X36. 
Timetable amendments on X35/835, 56/N56, 61, 39/RM2, 8/8A, S1. 
Route amendments on 21/N21

Would hope the 21/N21 route change is evenings via Blackett St, pilgrim st & market st to bigg market.

(05 Dec 2014, 12:42 pm)Drifter60 wrote So far,

Cancellations: 
20/20A
35/35A/35B/35C
29/29A
2A/2C
42
99

New Registrations: 
20: Durham-South Shields
2: Washington-Silksworth
35: Low Moorsley or Chester Le Street-Town End Farm/Boldon/Heworth
99: Castletown-Seaburn

Variations: 
Route and timetable amendments on 50/50A, X36. 
Timetable amendments on X35/835, 56/N56, 61, 39/RM2, 8/8A, S1. 
Route amendments on 21/N21

It looks like they're dropping the 56 to every 12 minutes. 

I'm glad with the 35 changes, wonder if we will see a 36 registration or will it just be all under one number, as the 35 has every location proposed on it, along with the new 2/2A, just under the service 2?

(05 Dec 2014, 5:41 pm)Michael wrote It looks like they're dropping the 56 to every 12 minutes. 

I'm glad with the 35 changes, wonder if we will see a 36 registration or will it just be all under one number, as the 35 has every location proposed on it, along with the new 2/2A, just under the service 2?

I think it is under the one registration.

(05 Dec 2014, 6:12 pm)citaro5284 wrote I think it is under the one registration.

Do you know when the full timetables will be online?

(05 Dec 2014, 6:37 pm)Michael wrote Do you know when the full timetables will be online?

Judging by the past changes i'd imagine 4 weeks, probably beginning of jan.

(05 Dec 2014, 7:12 pm)nk55 wrote Judging by the past changes i'd imagine 4 weeks, probably beginning of jan.

I don't see them being online much over the Christmas holidays, so i would of thought in the next couple of weeks. 

I've always wondered how the bus companies send the changes to VOSA with a timetable of the change and the local authorities and organisations can access these timetables, but the likes of "Joe blogs" a passenger cant access this information as these are the people who uses these bus services and generate revenue for the said bus company.

(05 Dec 2014, 11:58 am)Dan wrote VOSA are behind - service 71 has been cancelled and replaced by the new service.

Do you know if they're still changing the 38? 

(05 Dec 2014, 6:37 pm)Michael wrote Do you know when the full timetables will be online?

I imagine the timetables will appear some time in January.

Once granted, the registration is a matter of public record. The Traffic Commissioners office can then post you a copy out, for a fee.

Mind, individually they are rather confusing, so probably best to wait until they're online.

You can get the latest monthly Notice and Proceedings for Public Service Vehicle Operators in each area by email free of charge, but if you want paper copy sent then you pay a fee. Their should be an option to view the timetable as well that's been submitted.

(05 Dec 2014, 8:15 pm)cbma06 wrote You can get the latest monthly Notice and Proceedings for Public Service Vehicle Operators in each area by email free of charge, but if you want paper copy sent then you pay a fee. Their should be an option to view the timetable as well that's been submitted.

How would i sign up for these emails?

Thanks 

(05 Dec 2014, 8:38 pm)Michael wrote How would i sign up for these emails?

Thanks 

There should be an option on the VOSA website. Just make sure you sign up for N&P, otherwise you will get a stack of emails about trucks and trailers!

Just racking my brains and thought (for what they are worth), to outline my thoughts on some of the changes in Sunderland.

I will suggest alternatives in the route suggestions thread.

We have all been told, that the 35 in its current guise, is profitable.
Despite it having issues with reliability and the Houghton - Rainton Bridge - Houghton section often carrying nowt but fresh air out of the peaks.
It seems strange, to risk this profitability, gambling it in areas (in North Sunderland and the 71 route), which often struggle to justify smaller vehicles (assuming the Mercs stay on the 35) and are left at the whim of more frequent services.
I assume, they are hoping the newer vehicles, will stimulate growth in those areas.

The 20 struggles to keep time as it is.
Without getting into the debate about reliability again, vehicles have been seen broken down and one was off the road for a significant period of time.
To extend it to Shields, whilst possibly increasing the profitability of the route, can only lead to issues with its reliability - unless, a spare vehicle or two is left at say Park Lane.
Reliability and the location of stands for competing services in Park Lane and Shields, may lead to passengers choosing the competing service.

The X36 is being reduced in frequency on the Newcastle stretch - it hasn't taken off as anticipated.
Maybe it needs marketing as a through service?

The present "Laser" network is profitable as a whole, but the most profitable section of the route is the Sunderland - South Shields section. In terms of the route itself, this section remains unchanged, and it will be re-numbered to 20/20A only. The less profitable section is the Sunderland - Houghton-le-Spring (and beyond)  section, and I have to say that my belief is that this is due to the complexity of the lettered variations of the route (35, 35A, 35B and 35C). The North Sunderland section of the revised 35/36 isn't actually so much of a gamble as you'd think - service 29 delivers some very high passenger numbers compared to its former guise of service 26. This is why the revised network will see a combined frequency of 15 minutes opposed to the current 20 minutes. As you rightly point out; outside of peaks, the Houghton-le-Spring to Rainton Bridge section carries very few passengers during the day. Replacing this section of the 35 with a lower frequency service (38 - hourly) still provides a service, but it's more suited to the level of demand that 'corridor' needs.

Personally, I've had very few issues with timekeeping on service 20. When I do use the service (mainly Sunderland - Houghton), I often find drivers have time to wait at The Broadway. My experiences are limited to know whether or not there are issues beyond Houghton onto Durham, but lost mileage isn't particularly high, so I assume that drivers are able to make up this time quite easily. I shan't bite to the vehicle reliability - we all know my views on the matter - but what I will say is that the Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles cope very well across the network as a whole. They are found on interurban and express services - quite demanding work for vehicles of their age - and very few encounter difficulties. Vehicles, especially during peak periods, are currently on standby in Park Lane to time-correct services (primarily service 56 due to roadworks at Nissan). If running time is increased and the layover period at each end is increased to ensure that timekeeping issues are minimal, I cannot see why anyone would consider these changes to be anything other than good.

I'd say most of the reliability problems on the 20/20A are due to traffic between Gilesgate and Durham Bus Station, especially at peak times.

I would say that the current 20 timetable on Sundays is pretty tight, on August Bank Holiday Monday I saw two leave together.

Hopefully it is well timed there won't be many problems.

(06 Dec 2014, 4:22 pm)Jimmi wrote I'd say most of the reliability problems on the 20/20A are due to traffic between Gilesgate and Durham Bus Station, especially at peak times.

I would say that the current 20 timetable on Sundays is pretty tight, on August Bank Holiday Monday I saw two leave together.

Hopefully it is well timed there won't be many problems.

Yeah, they often leave or arrive in Durham together. 
Saw two 20a's following each other through Houghton towards Sunderland last night.
No idea where the 20 was!

When I was stuck in Durham the other afternoon, trying to get a bus (any bus), timetables were all out. Two came down into Durham following each other then too.

Had a chuckle when I saw your post about being stuck on the 24. Happens more or less daily on the 20's.
Hence why I (and others), often choose the X20, with it utilising the bus lane on the A690. It assists with the reliability much better than the one on Gilesgate.

You also have the A690/A19 interchange which is bad in peaks. Queues on a morning into Sunderland, can be back to Stoneygate and beyond.
Hopefully the road improvements, make a difference.

Gilesgate is terrible at times.

Shame the X20 only runs at peak times as Gilesgate can put me off the 20/20A especially since Arriva introduced the X21 to Sunderland.

The X20 from Park Lane at 1610 on weekday evenings is often late.

(06 Dec 2014, 4:34 pm)Jimmi wrote Gilesgate is terrible at times.

Shame the X20 only runs at peak times as Gilesgate can put me off the 20/20A especially since Arriva introduced the X21 to Sunderland.

The X20 from Park Lane at 1610 on weekday evenings is often late.

That's not to do with anything on the X20 route though - it's to do with the scholars that bus operates prior.
Despite it being timed to have more than enough time to get from Monkwearmouth to Park Lane, it often comes in late. Statements about timetabling on Nexus-secured services have been made in the past - I think it applies here too! Flip side of the coin is that Go North East should realise that it's a problem of the scholar service, but they haven't bothered to change the running boards so that X20 no longer interworks with that scholar service.

(06 Dec 2014, 4:34 pm)Jimmi wrote Gilesgate is terrible at times.

Shame the X20 only runs at peak times as Gilesgate can put me off the 20/20A especially since Arriva introduced the X21 to Sunderland.

The X20 from Park Lane at 1610 on weekday evenings is often late.

Aye, you are right it is.
It has taken me over half an hour to clear it in the car, on more than one occasion.

Think there was mention of that X20 being 20mins late out of Park Lane once.
The bus lane on the A690 and layover time in Durham, help it - with it often on time coming back out.


Not sure how it would be done, but maybe worth utilising that stretch of the A690 more often. There is only the few X20's and the P&R use it.

That's not to do with anything on the X20 route though - it's to do with the scholars that bus operates prior.

I know, it arrived at 1612 the last time I used it which meant that the 20 that was supposed to leave just behind it had to drop off the passengers arriving in Park Lane then had to pull round onto the layover stands until the X20 left which wasn't until around 1620 so the 20 then had to pull back onto the 20 stand to pick up the passengers so it ended up running late too because of the late arrival/departure of the X20.

(06 Dec 2014, 4:16 pm)Dan wrote The present "Laser" network is profitable as a whole, but the most profitable section of the route is the Sunderland - South Shields section. In terms of the route itself, this section remains unchanged, and it will be re-numbered to 20/20A only. The less profitable section is the Sunderland - Houghton-le-Spring (and beyond)  section, and I have to say that my belief is that this is due to the complexity of the lettered variations of the route (35, 35A, 35B and 35C). The North Sunderland section of the revised 35/36 isn't actually so much of a gamble as you'd think - service 29 delivers some very high passenger numbers compared to its former guise of service 26. This is why the revised network will see a combined frequency of 15 minutes opposed to the current 20 minutes. As you rightly point out; outside of peaks, the Houghton-le-Spring to Rainton Bridge section carries very few passengers during the day. Replacing this section of the 35 with a lower frequency service (38 - hourly) still provides a service, but it's more suited to the level of demand that 'corridor' needs.

Personally, I've had very few issues with timekeeping on service 20. When I do use the service (mainly Sunderland - Houghton), I often find drivers have time to wait at The Broadway. My experiences are limited to know whether or not there are issues beyond Houghton onto Durham, but lost mileage isn't particularly high, so I assume that drivers are able to make up this time quite easily. I shan't bite to the vehicle reliability - we all know my views on the matter - but what I will say is that the Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles cope very well across the network as a whole. They are found on interurban and express services - quite demanding work for vehicles of their age - and very few encounter difficulties. Vehicles, especially during peak periods, are currently on standby in Park Lane to time-correct services (primarily service 56 due to roadworks at Nissan). If running time is increased and the layover period at each end is increased to ensure that timekeeping issues are minimal, I cannot see why anyone would consider these changes to be anything other than good.

That's why i think we will see new buses on the 20/20A or 35/36 next time, if the changes work out....

I'm looking forward to seen how all the changes will look like after 6 months also i was gonna do repaints but then i remembered Dan's done it already - this can be found here: http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...p?tid=1030&page=39 

Edit: Spelling mistake! 

A quick question about the 33 being reinstated (I didn't attend the consultation - didn't know it was on). Will it be operating the same way as the 12 (past the Barnes, the up Silksworth Lane and down Blind Lane)? I imagine the competition would be a bit strong with the Stagecoach 12 and 13 - the only 'new' link I can think of would be Doxford Park (let's say Morrisons) to Blind Lane (where the old Rover dealership was) as you could get the 13 to the top of Blind Lane (Sportsmans arms).

My mam lives in Silksworth so I often travel there. I remember when going to Farra comp getting the 133 the Doxford International on a morning (think Redby did afternoon peak trips at some point). Also, where in Doxford Park would it terminate - Morrisons? There also used to be a 132 (George Bell and Wear buses at some point as well) which went round my mams estate and a 129 that went round the estate next to the library. Maybe these estates could be served again by bus (may also take away passengers from the 12 who need to walk to the main road to use them)?

With regards to the X36 (which I use daily) I don't know what to make of the changes. Bit miffed that to Newcastle it will be only every hour but reliability has never been the strong point of the X36 especially of late - there has been large gaps in service between Newcastle and Sunderland recently (one more than one occasion it has been over an hour between buses and on one day it was over 90 minutes). That said, at peak times, it is used by fare paying (well pass holding) passengers. I often use the first X36 (gets to my stop for 7am) heading to Newcastle. Picks up a large amount of passengers (often nearly full by Downhill). Quite a few passengers have the blue network one passes (do GNE get reimbursed for these?). I have noted also, a lot of people travel from the North Estates to Boldon Asda.

Thinking of the North Sunderland changes, would reintroduction of the 135/136 work and cancel out some of these changes and previous changes? Also, could serve the new Aldi store.

@Michael

The new vehicle types is an interesting one, but the removal of a strong brand between Shields and Sunderland and replacing it with another (remember, it isn't just about numbers these days - but brand names), will be one to bear in mind.

GNE have built the 35 up on a mix of historical services, frequency, modern vehicles and a brand name.
To replace it with a service number (and brand) that has no significance to passengers - possibly with an older vehicle type...
It's like renaming a chocolate bar or drink. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Unless they're replacing the Solars earlier than we thought?

(06 Dec 2014, 6:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote @Michael

The new vehicle types is an interesting one, but the removal of a strong brand between Shields and Sunderland and replacing it with another (remember, it isn't just about numbers these days - but brand names), will be one to bear in mind.

GNE have built the 35 up on a mix of historical services, frequency, modern vehicles and a brand name.
To replace it with a service number (and brand) that has no significance to passengers - possibly with an older vehicle type...
It's like renaming a chocolate bar or drink. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Unless they're replacing the Solars earlier than we thought?

I don't think the solars will be replaced this year, maybe next year but i agree, the South Shields - Sunderland part is going from Citaros/scania's to all scania's.... Even with the laser citaro's moving over to the 20/20A they're wont be enough and we have to remember the new 2/2A will need more citaro's, only place they can really get them from is the Laser, i don't think GNE will want a mixture of buses on the 2/2A.

Although iv'e just thought, the B7RLE's could be available for the 20/20A if the Toonlink get the new buses, that means they won't have to be repainted! 

(06 Dec 2014, 6:32 pm)Michael wrote I don't think the solars will be replaced this year, maybe next year but i agree, the South Shields - Sunderland part is going from Citaros/scania's to all scania's.... Even with the laser citaro's moving over to the 20/20A they're wont be enough and we have to remember the new 2/2A will need more citaro's, only place they can really get them from is the Laser, i don't think GNE will want a mixture of buses on the 2/2A.

Unless GNE source some Citaros from other Go-Ahead Companies, which I highly doubt, I do think this Years Orders (2014) which are yet to be Confirmed will arrive in Early 2015, furthermore I think the 20/20A will be part of that Investment.

(06 Dec 2014, 5:37 pm)Michael wrote That's why i think we will see new buses on the 20/20A or 35/36 next time, if the changes work out....

I'm looking forward to seen how all the changes will look like after 6 months also i was gonna do repaints but then i remembered Dan's done it already - this can be found here: http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...p?tid=1030&page=39 

Edit: Spelling mistake! 

Just remember that was very early speculation based on what I thought would happen - far from confirmation of any sort...