(11 Jan 2015, 7:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Doesn't that sort of contradict what you said in this post?

If you read the post I linked to above, I included the last paragraph for a reason (as I had a good feeling someone would say that I'd contradicted myself, even though it's a completely different situation).

If the journey time was six minutes difference Bishop Auckland - Newcastle, Go North East could definitely consider it a threat... But when it's 25? Can you see commuters forking out an extra £4.70 to have an increased journey time of 25 minutes - just so they can use power sockets and Wi-Fi - especially when it involves a connection in Durham?

(11 Jan 2015, 6:53 pm)tyresmoke wrote I did indeed, and I would hazard a guess that you'll be correct as end to end passengers are always going to go with a direct service, passengers between Bishop Auckland & Durham may think about switching though if a superior service is offered.
Of course for regular commuters, the service which offers the most flexibility (and more importantly, price) will always win.

It's interesting to find there is a £5 difference between similar offerings between the Wear Valley area & Newcastle though, with the weekly Pronto saver priced at £22.50 as opposed to Arriva's offering at £17.40. GNE will always win the battle between Durham & Newcastle based on frequency alone, never mind the numerous connections available such as Metrocentre's regular shuttle buses. However the prices are fairly competitive with the Arriva weekly at £17.40 and GNE's Angel saver just £17.00. The connections required at each end of the region would depend on which one the passengers would purchase I would suggest as nobody (or not many) would realistically just travel from Durham Bus Station to Eldon Square and back each day.

See, I completely agree with what you're saying about GNE always winning the battle between Durham and Newcastle on frequency alone, but it beggars the question of why the X2 is kept in it's present form? I'd say it would make more sense to keep the X12 as a standalone service, with added layover at either end to improve reliability. To replace the X2, run two of the 6's through to Newcastle as an X6, providing the same limited stop service between Durham & Chester le Street, but then non-stop to Gateshead (or even Newcastle) via the A1? It would probably even result in a reduction in PVR?

(11 Jan 2015, 7:15 pm)Dan wrote If the journey time was six minutes difference Bishop Auckland - Newcastle, Go North East could definitely consider it a threat... But when it's 25? Can you see commuters forking out an extra £4.70 to have an increased journey time of 25 minutes - just so they can use power sockets and Wi-Fi - especially when it involves a connection in Durham?

Just to query the price, as I think I missed your reply the other night when we were discussing. The comparison was the North East all zones ticket, but the Durham District is valid on the 6 to Bishop, and the X2 to Newcastle, priced at £17.40? I hadn't realised it was valid on the 6 until I checked mind.

But to answer the question, perhaps commuters are willing to pay more for a considerably quicker service? X21 has needed an increase in peak time frequency recently, which tells it's own story, and a flip of the coin - the X2 is pretty much bare between Durham and Newcastle. I can't believe for one minute that nobody commutes from Durham to Newcastle...

(11 Jan 2015, 9:13 pm)aureolin wrote See, I completely agree with what you're saying about GNE always winning the battle between Durham and Newcastle on frequency alone, but it beggars the question of why the X2 is kept in it's present form? I'd say it would make more sense to keep the X12 as a standalone service, with added layover at either end to improve reliability. To replace the X2, run two of the 6's through to Newcastle as an X6, providing the same limited stop service between Durham & Chester le Street, but then non-stop to Gateshead (or even Newcastle) via the A1? It would probably even result in a reduction in PVR?

I think something should be done to improve the reliability of service X12 as at times it can be running late especially seems to be late arriving in Sedgefield.

Problem with extending the 6 to Newcastle is the 6 operates every 12 minutes so having two journeys an hour would not be 30 minutes apart so this could be confusing to some people. I do think that the 6 should be extended to Framwellgate Moor as this could steal New College students from the X21.

I personally would like to see service 7 extended to Newcastle instead as this would be following a different route to the X21 south of Durham after Croxdale as I think it could maybe pick up people from Aycliffe, Chilton and Ferryhill as when I've used the X2 at times a few passengers have jumped on the 7 and this will replicate the old service 723 but the journey time from Darlington to Durham would be longer and a round trip would probably take 4 and a half hours.

(11 Jan 2015, 9:13 pm)aureolin wrote See, I completely agree with what you're saying about GNE always winning the battle between Durham and Newcastle on frequency alone, but it beggars the question of why the X2 is kept in it's present form? I'd say it would make more sense to keep the X12 as a standalone service, with added layover at either end to improve reliability. To replace the X2, run two of the 6's through to Newcastle as an X6, providing the same limited stop service between Durham & Chester le Street, but then non-stop to Gateshead (or even Newcastle) via the A1? It would probably even result in a reduction in PVR?



Just to query the price, as I think I missed your reply the other night when we were discussing. The comparison was the North East all zones ticket, but the Durham District is valid on the 6 to Bishop, and the X2 to Newcastle, priced at £17.40? I hadn't realised it was valid on the 6 until I checked mind.

But to answer the question, perhaps commuters are willing to pay more for a considerably quicker service? X21 has needed an increase in peak time frequency recently, which tells it's own story, and a flip of the coin - the X2 is pretty much bare between Durham and Newcastle. I can't believe for one minute that nobody commutes from Durham to Newcastle...

The northbound trains are heaving on a morning. The 072x EC is often crowded to the point standees are down the carriage.

It begs the question as to how they get in to Durham in the first place.

Maybe the 6 could be reduced to every 15 minutes?

This would then allow for a more consistent service to Hollymoor and Cockfield. As at present you have a service at 35 and 00 which isn't very consistent.
So you could have a service every 30 minutes to Cockfield, and a service every 15 minutes to Bishop Auckland. Then you would have the Cockfield ones extended to Newcastle, serving University Hospital, Chester-le-Street and then non-stop to Newcastle. For example:

Cockfield                -- 15 --  45
West Auckland:      13 28 43 58
Bishop Auckland:    36 51 06 21
Spennymoor:         50 05 20 35
New Inn:               06 21 36 51
Durham:               11 31 41 01
Chester-le-St:        -- 50  --  20
Newcastle:            -- 17  --  47 (via A1)

(11 Jan 2015, 9:52 pm)Tom wrote Maybe the 6 could be reduced to every 15 minutes?

This would then allow for a more consistent service to Hollymoor and Cockfield. As at present you have a service at 35 and 00 which isn't very consistent.
So you could have a service every 30 minutes to Cockfield, and a service every 15 minutes to Bishop Auckland. Then you would have the Cockfield ones extended to Newcastle, serving University Hospital, Chester-le-Street and then non-stop to Newcastle. For example:

Cockfield                -- 15 --  45
West Auckland:      13 28 43 58
Bishop Auckland:    36 51 06 21
Spennymoor:         50 05 20 35
New Inn:               06 21 36 51
Durham:               11 31 41 01
Chester-le-St:        -- 50  --  20
Newcastle:            -- 17  --  47 (via A1)

I don't think you could reduce the 6 judging by what I've seen. The loadings are still rather high for the current 12 minute frequency, and that's with Pulsars allocated. 

(11 Jan 2015, 9:54 pm)aureolin wrote I don't think you could reduce the 6 judging by what I've seen. The loadings are still rather high for the current 12 minute frequency, and that's with Pulsars allocated. 

Well every 10 minutes possibly then?

(11 Jan 2015, 9:54 pm)aureolin wrote I don't think you could reduce the 6 judging by what I've seen. The loadings are still rather high for the current 12 minute frequency, and that's with Pulsars allocated. 

I got on the 6 from New Inn to Croxdale last week on 7464 and there was no seats downstairs and was a fair few on upstairs too.

(11 Jan 2015, 9:58 pm)Jimmi wrote I got on the 6 from New Inn to Croxdale last week on 7464 and there was no seats downstairs and was a fair few on upstairs too.

I seem to recall it being reduced from 10 to 12 minutes, for the same reason as GNE are doing with the 56. If they had the vehicle resource from the X2 as an interworking pattern, they could probably up it to 10 minutes again, with two an hour continuing to Newcastle as a new X6 service. I'd say it would have to work to allow for X12 passengers to still connect on to it at Durham Bus Station though, with through-fares being available. 

(11 Jan 2015, 9:58 pm)Jimmi wrote I got on the 6 from New Inn to Croxdale last week on 7464 and there was no seats downstairs and was a fair few on upstairs too.

I'd love to see the 6 grow to a 10 min frequency which would allow the timetable to be tidied up at the western end, which in turn may even tidy the diagrams up - at present the deckers have to drop out half way through the day to get them in the right place for the afternoon!
Hopefully the upgrade to Sapphire will provide enough growth to allow this.

(11 Jan 2015, 10:04 pm)aureolin wrote I seem to recall it being reduced from 10 to 12 minutes, for the same reason as GNE are doing with the 56. If they had the vehicle resource from the X2 as an interworking pattern, they could probably up it to 10 minutes again, with two an hour continuing to Newcastle as a new X6 service. I'd say it would have to work to allow for X12 passengers to still connect on to it at Durham Bus Station though, with through-fares being available. 

No, the 6 went from an every 30 minutes 6 to Cockfield and every 30 minutes 6a to Ramshaw to an every 12 minutes 6 to West Auckland with 2 an hour to Cockfield. However, should Sapphire increase loadings and income, not beyond the imagination for it to go to every 10 minutes to West Auckland and every 30 minutes to Cockfield.

(11 Jan 2015, 10:04 pm)aureolin wrote I seem to recall it being reduced from 10 to 12 minutes, for the same reason as GNE are doing with the 56. If they had the vehicle resource from the X2 as an interworking pattern, they could probably up it to 10 minutes again, with two an hour continuing to Newcastle as a new X6 service. I'd say it would have to work to allow for X12 passengers to still connect on to it at Durham Bus Station though, with through-fares being available. 

For years it was 15 minutes between Durham and Bishop Auckland then at some point I think it ran to Cockfield every 30 minutes and Ramshaw as the 6A every 30 minutes combined every 15 minutes between Durham and Bishop Auckland. Then I think it became the 6 from Durham to West Auckland every 12 minutes with a revised 50/50A replacing the 6A to Ramshaw.

I think that's right but I may be wrong as Arriva have changed their services in Bishop Auckland quite a few times over the last 10 years so I forget but I don't believe the 6 was ever every 10 minutes.

(11 Jan 2015, 9:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote The northbound trains are heaving on a morning. The 072x EC is often crowded to the point standees are down the carriage.

It begs the question as to how they get in to Durham in the first place.

As I used to get that train from Darlington regularly, quite a lot of passengers walked to the station (20 mins for me), a few cycle,though I have to say Victoria Road would be busy with cars sometimes queuing to get into the portico to drop people off.

Although this was very much a peak time thing as the trains from Newcastle to Darlo during the day were quite quiet (excluding Fridays and Trans Pennine), even the 16:30 EC from Newcastle was dead (I once had a whole carriage to myself), but the trains after 5 were always busy from Newcastle.

Stockton Depot have received the first Pulsar refurbished for MAX services X12/X2 - 1443 (NK10CFF) is back out in service on the 17A between Middlesbrough & Stockton this afternoon.
As posted in rare workings thread it should work the 1510 from Middlesbrough, 1556 return from Stockton and then the 1650 X17 Middlesbrough to Kingsmead.


Arriva North East 1443 NK10CFF


Arriva North East - MAX Pulsar Interior

That is nice!!! When and where is the launch???

(12 Jan 2015, 3:22 pm)ArrivaNE_7522 wrote That is nice!!! When and where is the launch???

Not sure on that one but I will let you know when I find out! Likely to be one in Stockton with the joint launch of the X66 (delayed after the incident in the High Street the previous day a month or so ago). Probably one in Durham also for the university students & commuters. Durham are still using the Geminis or were until the weekend, so who knows how long it will take!

Whats the difference between MAX spec and Sapphire spec? except the livery.

(12 Jan 2015, 3:41 pm)cbma06 wrote Whats the difference between MAX spec and Sapphire spec? except the livery.

Max doesn't have power sockets and next stop announcements. Doesn't have drivers in special uniform either.

(12 Jan 2015, 3:44 pm)ArrivaNE_7522 wrote Max doesn't have power sockets and next stop announcements. Doesn't have drivers in special uniform either.

Apart from Darlington where the next stop announcements are starting to appear, just to muddy the waters a little!

(12 Jan 2015, 3:01 pm)tyresmoke wrote Stockton Depot have received the first Pulsar refurbished for MAX services X12/X2 - 1443 (NK10CFF) is back out in service on the 17A between Middlesbrough & Stockton this afternoon.
As posted in rare workings thread it should work the 1510 from Middlesbrough, 1556 return from Stockton and then the 1650 X17 Middlesbrough to Kingsmead.


Arriva North East 1443 NK10CFF


Arriva North East - MAX Pulsar Interior

That looks absolutely brilliant.

(12 Jan 2015, 3:50 pm)tyresmoke wrote Apart from Darlington where the next stop announcements are starting to appear, just to muddy the waters a little!

The X1 Streetlite's will have next stop announcements too I think, to go with the announcements on the 1.

Why can't Arriva just make a 'standard' across their buses...

New inviting livery
E-Leather seats
Free Wifi
Power Sockets
Next-stop announcements

Not having Max and Sapphire on selected services getting more customers and also the E200s in Durham will be more or less providing Sapphire when the Wi-Fi is fitted minus the announcements!

(12 Jan 2015, 3:52 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote That looks absolutely brilliant.

Must say that the Pulsars suit the MAX base livery much more than the OmniCitys. The interior looks a lot better than the ghastly green (as per the OmniCitys), too.

(12 Jan 2015, 4:13 pm)Dan wrote Must say that the Pulsars suit the MAX base livery much more than the OmniCitys. The interior looks a lot better than the ghastly green (as per the OmniCitys), too.

Agreed. I'm looking forward to seeing them out and about!

(12 Jan 2015, 4:13 pm)Dan wrote Must say that the Pulsars suit the MAX base livery much more than the OmniCitys. The interior looks a lot better than the ghastly green (as per the OmniCitys), too.

The Pulsars do look great in MAX base livery.

I think the interior on the Omnicitys doesn't look too bad, it's not great but it could be worse.

(12 Jan 2015, 3:44 pm)ArrivaNE_7522 wrote Max doesn't have power sockets and next stop announcements. Doesn't have drivers in special uniform either.

Uniforms are on order!

(12 Jan 2015, 4:43 pm)MrPottski wrote Uniforms are on order!

What do the Max uniforms look like?

(12 Jan 2015, 4:49 pm)ArrivaNE_7522 wrote What do the Max uniforms look like?

I'll let Mr Pottski confirm but I believe its a white shirt and MAX tie.

I don't know if I've picked this up correctly, so can someone please correct this if it's wrong
Are most Arriva services going to be under some kind of brand from now on, be it MAX Sapphire or high frequency route branded? It just seems like a large majority of services are seeing upgrades or branding.

(12 Jan 2015, 4:57 pm)mb134 wrote I don't know if I've picked this up correctly, so can someone please correct this if it's wrong
Are most Arriva services going to be under some kind of brand from now on, be it MAX Sapphire or high frequency route branded? It just seems like a large majority of services are seeing upgrades or branding.

As I said early last year, I think only town services will remain Arriva with out of town services becoming Sapphire or MAX. That's my prediction anyways. Except for the Eco services using gas busses or 'special' Streetlites. That's my prediction