Sapphire Service 7 - Durham to Darlington

Having used the Service for the first time on Monday there are few changes I think could benefit the Service.

- Upgrade in Frequency to Every 10 Minutes
- Development at Durham Gate
- Several Housing Developments Across the Route

Think what is noted above would be enough to justify an Upgrade.

(28 Jan 2015, 2:45 pm)Malarkey wrote Sapphire Service 7 - Durham to Darlington

Having used the Service for the first time on Monday there are few changes I think could benefit the Service.

- Upgrade in Frequency to Every 10 Minutes
- Development at Durham Gate
- Several Housing Developments Across the Route

Think what is noted above would be enough to justify an Upgrade.

I would love to see the 7 be increased to every 10 minutes but I don't think this will happen because it would mess up the frequency of providing a bus from Darlington - Newton Aycliffe roughly every 7/8 minutes combined with the 5/5A, 8 and 21 so you'd end up with a complete mess of buses slotted in between 7's so it would end up being every 10 minutes for a bus at times, the only other you could do is increase the 8/21 to every 30 minutes so that they could slot in between the 7's which would mean a bus from Darlington - Newton Aycliffe roughly every 5 minutes.

I will say the 7 can be pretty busy during the daytime with very few seats can be left across various parts of the route especially Darlington Centre - Harrowgate Hill which often ends up leaving with standees.

One thing I'd love to see happen is the 7 be increased to every 30 minutes on Sunday daytimes as some journeys on a morning and afternoon can be pretty busy, the two I got around 11am on Sunday in both directions were pretty busy, although some journeys aren't as busy as Dan will probably tell you from his experiences of the 7 on a Sunday. This will probably never happen as the 7 used to run every 30 minutes on a Sunday before and didn't do quite well.

Some journeys at peak times can be absolutely rammed which will be why some Enviro 400's have been purchased for this route and a morning journey to Framwellgate Moor is currently duplicated on a morning.

(28 Jan 2015, 2:45 pm)Malarkey wrote Sapphire Service 7 - Durham to Darlington

Having used the Service for the first time on Monday there are few changes I think could benefit the Service.

- Upgrade in Frequency to Every 10 Minutes
- Development at Durham Gate
- Several Housing Developments Across the Route

Think what is noted above would be enough to justify an Upgrade.

(28 Jan 2015, 3:00 pm)Jimmi wrote I would love to see the 7 be increased to every 10 minutes but I don't think this will happen because it would mess up the frequency of providing a bus from Darlington - Newton Aycliffe roughly every 7/8 minutes combined with the 5/5A, 8 and 21 so you'd end up with a complete mess of buses slotted in between 7's so it would end up being every 10 minutes for a bus at times, the only other you could do is increase the 8/21 to every 30 minutes so that they could slot in between the 7's which would mean a bus from Darlington - Newton Aycliffe roughly every 5 minutes.

I will say the 7 can be pretty busy during the daytime with very few seats can be left across various parts of the route especially Darlington Centre - Harrowgate Hill which often ends up leaving with standees.

One thing I'd love to see happen is the 7 be increased to every 30 minutes on Sunday daytimes as some journeys on a morning and afternoon can be pretty busy, the two I got around 11am on Sunday in both directions were pretty busy, although some journeys aren't as busy as Dan will probably tell you from his experiences of the 7 on a Sunday. This will probably never happen as the 7 used to run every 30 minutes on a Sunday before and didn't do quite well.

Some journeys at peak times can be absolutely rammed which will be why some Enviro 400's have been purchased for this route and a morning journey to Framwellgate Moor is currently duplicated on a morning.

Taking those points into account, could a short version work?
Durham to Newton Aycliffe?

(28 Jan 2015, 3:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote Taking those points into account, could a short version work?

Durham to Newton Aycliffe?

Probably not.

If this was to happen Darlington - Newton Aycliffe (Woodham) would be better as this section is busier than Durham - Newton Aycliffe probably would be.

The biggest problem is still the other service that combine with the 7 between Darlo and Aycliffe.

(28 Jan 2015, 3:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote Taking those points into account, could a short version work?
Durham to Newton Aycliffe?

From looking at both the 7 and 8 Routes, it looks as though they pretty much follow each other between Darlington and Ferryhill, so therefore I have came up with the following.

7/7A/X7 - Darlington - Tudoe - Aycliffe Village - Newton Aycliffe - Chilton - Ferryhill - Spennymoor (7A) - Croxdale - Durham - Framwellgate Moor
Service 8 Withdrawn and merged into Sapphire Service 7
Operating Every 10 Minutes 

A New Peak Time Express will also be Introduced running on a Limited Stopping basis between Darlington and Framwellgate Moor.

(28 Jan 2015, 4:26 pm)Malarkey wrote From looking at both the 7 and 8 Routes, it looks as though they pretty much follow each other between Darlington and Ferryhill, so therefore I have came up with the following.



7/7A/X7 - Darlington - Tudoe - Aycliffe Village - Newton Aycliffe - Chilton - Ferryhill - Spennymoor (7A) - Croxdale - Durham - Framwellgate Moor

Service 8 Withdrawn and merged into Sapphire Service 7

Operating Every 10 Minutes 



A New Peak Time Express will also be Introduced running on a Limited Stopping basis between Darlington and Framwellgate Moor.

I don't think there is much call for a frequent service to Spennymoor from Darlington also don't add any extra places en route which would make the route longer. I think more buses should run to Framwellgate Moor on weekdays at least but I think it would be better to extend the 6 up to Fram as it could swipe the New College students as many choose GNE passes over Arriva on the basis that the X21 runs direct to New College throughout the daytime while the 6 only does on a morning and afternoon. Wouldn't mind an express version of the 7 between Darlington and Durham mind. I think just increasing the current 7 route to every 10 minutes would be best.

The differences between the 7/8 routes are that the 8 runs right through Aycliffe Village then from Aycliffe Town Centre runs via Central Avenue and the A167 to reach Chilton then after Chilton Wheatshaf it runs via Chilton Lane and Ferryhill Station. So still has some differences from the 7 route.

(24 Jan 2015, 11:29 am)Tommy_1581 wrote Arriva need to get rid of 'X' routes if their not expresses. It takes me 54 minutes to Newcastle on the X21, but a 5 minute walk away is the X20 express that'll get me there in 35 minutes.

I agree the Darlington X1 is not really an express and could have been renumbered 1C just as a route variation of the 1 diagram(there are frequent reports of X1 branded buses on 1/5 services which is over complicated for the customers to understand0 meaning there would have been no need to Max it and reduce the issue of branded buses ending up on the wrong service especially as the are keep in an outstation Also there would have been no need to change the original X1 to X12  Also X26/27 had no reason to be Max as the old quick X27 was dropped when the service reduced from a 15 min to 20 min service

X66 - Middlesbrough - Stockton - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook

Basically its the old GNE (OK1) which GNE withdrew as a result of Competition from the X1/X66, Never understood why Arriva decided to keep these Routes split to be honest as I think they should be merged.

X94 - Scarborough - Snainton - Pickering - Kirkbymoorside - Helmsley - Thirsk - A19 - Thornaby - Middlesbrough

(29 Jan 2015, 9:45 pm)Malarkey wrote X66 - Middlesbrough - Stockton - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook

Basically its the old GNE (OK1) which GNE withdrew as a result of Competition from the X1/X66, Never understood why Arriva decided to keep these Routes split to be honest as I think they should be merged.

It's basically more like the old X14 which ran from Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough except the X14 didn't used to serve Stockton and I think it connected to service X4 to Saltburn? The X14 was eventually cut to run between Darlington and Middlesbrough only and additionally serve Stockton then was renumbered to the X66 in 2008.

The route would probably have to be split somewhere to get round the use of tachnos, the morning / evening OK1's were split at Bishop Auckland.

(29 Jan 2015, 9:55 pm)Jimmi wrote It's basically more like the old X14 which ran from Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough except the X14 didn't used to serve Stockton and I think it connected to service X4 to Saltburn? The X14 was eventually cut to run between Darlington and Middlesbrough only and additionally serve Stockton then was renumbered to the X66 in 2008.

The route would probably have to be split somewhere to get round the use of tachnos, the morning / evening OK1's were split at Bishop Auckland.

Isnt there a Mileage Limit before needing a Tachograph, wouldnt think you need one between Crook and Middlesbrough.

(29 Jan 2015, 10:27 pm)Malarkey wrote Isnt there a Mileage Limit before needing a Tachograph, wouldnt think you need one between Crook and Middlesbrough.

Anything over 50km (roughly 34 miles) requires a tachograph.

(29 Jan 2015, 10:27 pm)Malarkey wrote Isnt there a Mileage Limit before needing a Tachograph, wouldnt think you need one between Crook and Middlesbrough.

I can't remember the distance for the need of a tachno but the GNE OK1 morning / evening runs to/from Crook were split at Bishop Auckland but I'm not 100% sure if it was to get round the use of tacho's or not.

Also one X1 continues beyond Crook to Tow Law.

(29 Jan 2015, 9:45 pm)Malarkey wrote X66 - Middlesbrough - Stockton - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook

Basically its the old GNE (OK1) which GNE withdrew as a result of Competition from the X1/X66, Never understood why Arriva decided to keep these Routes split to be honest as I think they should be merged.

X94 - Scarborough - Snainton - Pickering - Kirkbymoorside - Helmsley - Thirsk - A19 - Thornaby - Middlesbrough

Presumably going the long way between Helmsley and Thirsk, due to Sutton Bank?

There was discussion about Sutton Bank in the not too distant past and whether buses could use it or not.
Not sure what the consensus was to be honest.

(30 Jan 2015, 7:01 am)Andreos1 wrote Presumably going the long way between Helmsley and Thirsk, due to Sutton Bank?

There was discussion about Sutton Bank in the not too distant past and whether buses could use it or not.
Not sure what the consensus was to be honest.

I do vaguely remember reading that discussion somewhere on NEB a while back, Just been looking at Sutton Bank and I reckon the B9TL could go up that without any problems.

(30 Jan 2015, 2:55 pm)Malarkey wrote I do vaguely remember reading that discussion somewhere on NEB a while back, Just been looking at Sutton Bank and I reckon the B9TL could go up that without any problems.

Having ridden the new B9TL's on the X93 on Monday they could maybe get up Sutton Bank although you do have to account for the traffic following the bus up there.

Problem is though is where would Arriva get some B9TL's from for this service suggestion as sorry for sounding all DaveyBowyer but I think B9TL's may be the only low floor bus that could maybe handle Sutton Bank and if you can't get any it's not worth sending a bus up there as pretty much everything else would probably struggle.

(30 Jan 2015, 3:19 pm)Jimmi wrote Having ridden the new B9TL's on the X93 on Monday they could maybe get up Sutton Bank although you do have to account for the traffic following the bus up there.

Problem is though is where would Arriva get some B9TL's from for this service  suggestion as sorry for sounding all DaveyBowyer but I think B9TL's may be the only low floor bus that could maybe handle Sutton Bank and if you can't get any it's not worth sending a bus up there as pretty much everything else would probably struggle.

Well there was the Vosa Cancellation of the X93, So depending on what the crack is there then you could have 6 B9TLs Free.

In its current form is there any need for the X93 to be Hourly during the Winter/Early Spring, do many people use the Service during this time to travel to Whitby and Scarborough from Middlesbrough, and would it be worth reducing it to Every 2 Hours during this time of Year maybe, Never used the Service before so im thinking outside the box here.

Just thinking here, you could have the X93/X94 running Every 2 Hours, Maintaining the current Hourly Service between Middlesbrough and Scarborough, PVR would then be split to 3 Vehicles each.

(30 Jan 2015, 3:34 pm)Malarkey wrote Well there was the Vosa Cancellation of the X93, So depending on what the crack is there then you could have 6 B9TLs Free.

In its current form is there any need for the X93 to be Hourly during the Winter/Early Spring, do many people use the Service during this time to travel to Whitby and Scarborough from Middlesbrough, and would it be worth reducing it to Every 2 Hours during this time of Year maybe, Never used the Service before so im thinking outside the box here.

Just thinking here, you could have the X93/X94 running Every 2 Hours, Maintaining the current Hourly Service between Middlesbrough and Scarborough, PVR would then be split to 3 Vehicles each.

I'm not sure what exactly is going on with the X93, today there is a registration between Middlesbrough and Guisborough only.

I'm not entirely sure on the passenger numbers for the X93 in winter as I rarely use this service except usually the odd daytrip in the summer.

Although there probably is still a need for at least an hourly service between Whitby and Scarborough as this is the busier section of the route.

(30 Jan 2015, 2:55 pm)Malarkey wrote I do vaguely remember reading that discussion somewhere on NEB a while back, Just been looking at Sutton Bank and I reckon the B9TL could go up that without any problems.

Appreciate it is hardly the Swiss Alps and we're not likely to see a repeat of the end scene of The Italian Job, but could it handle some of the bends?

(30 Jan 2015, 3:40 pm)Jimmi wrote I'm not sure what exactly is going on with the X93, today there is a registration between Middlesbrough and Guisborough only.

I'm not entirely sure on the passenger numbers for the X93 in winter as I rarely use this service except usually the odd daytrip in the summer.

Although there probably is still a need for at least an hourly service between Whitby and Scarborough as this is the busier section of the route.

They are splitting the X93 up to save cost of fitting the summer extras with Tachographs.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:02 pm)Kuyoyo wrote They are splitting the X93 up to save cost of fitting the summer extras with Tachographs.

It will be re-registered in three separate parts. It allows the drivers to work on a more relaxed 5.5 hour spread, allowing for more flexibility during disruption.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:05 pm)tyresmoke wrote It will be re-registered in three separate parts. It allows the drivers to work on a more relaxed 5.5 hour spread, allowing for more flexibility during disruption.

So it will be like Stagecoach's 685 then. So I'm guessing it will be split at Guisborough and Whitby then.

Hope day-trippers don't find this confusing.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:13 pm)Jimmi wrote So it will be like Stagecoach's 685 then. So I'm guessing it will be split at Guisborough and Whitby then.

Hope day-trippers don't find this confusing.

It'll probably be set up in such a way that isn't confusing.

For example:
X93 Guisborough for Whitby and Scarborough
X93 Whitby for Scarborough
X93 Scarborough via x, y, z.

Of course, the route branding on the Volvo B9TLs (should) help, too.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:22 pm)Dan wrote It'll probably be set up in such a way that isn't confusing.

For example:
X93 Guisborough for Whitby and Scarborough
X93 Whitby for Scarborough
X93 Scarborough via x, y, z.

Of course, the route branding on the Volvo B9TLs (should) help, too.

Likely but Arriva's new annoying style for screens with through services such as the 21/X21 and X12/X2 looks awful as it says for (destination) then shows via points which annoys me.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:24 pm)Jimmi wrote Likely but Arriva's new annoying style for screens with through services such as the 21/X21 and X12/X2 looks awful as it says for (destination) then shows via points which annoys me.

I'd like to see us use "then" rather than "for" - I think this would work well on the X93 where there are very few notable via points...

(30 Jan 2015, 4:26 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'd like to see us use "then" rather than "for" - I think this would work well on the X93 where there are very few notable via points...

I think "then" sounds better as some people may see "for" and think that the destination at the top of the screen is the terminus and they have to get off there and get another bus.

Or, rather than 'for' or 'then', they fit the tachos and (however daft the rules may be), follow the EU legislation - rather than look for loopholes.

No confusion for passengers. Jobs a good un.

I appreciate why operators look for these loopholes, after all it gives them flexibility and saves money - but it won't be long before the beaurocrats in Brussells catch on to it and outlaw it.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:30 pm)Jimmi wrote I think "then" sounds better as some people may see "for" and think that the destination at the top of the screen is the terminus and they have to get off there and get another bus.

I think the issue with "then" would be that it could lead to the assumption that the service will be direct from Point A to Point B and Point C. Although the X93 is limited stop, it does serve a number of locations in between.

(30 Jan 2015, 4:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote Or, rather than 'for' or 'then', they fit the tachos and (however daft the rules may be), follow the EU legislation - rather than look for loopholes.

No confusion for passengers. Jobs a good un.

I appreciate why operators look for these loopholes, after all it gives them flexibility and saves money - but it won't be long before the beaurocrats in Brussells catch on to it and outlaw it.

You mean the loopholes that have been used for 6 or 7 years and haven't been outlawed yet  

The issues is - X93 arrives in Scarborough an hour and a half late at present with a tachograph, it means the driver will have to taken his or her 35 minutes legal break there as European Driving Hours are upto 4 hours 30 minutes before the meal break must be taken, meaning given the shift pattern he or she would have to take their break there and then. That also then screws up their second half as well.

Under domestic driving hours, the bus could set off straight back as the driver is only 2 hours 32 minutes into his legal 5 hours 30 minutes.

It also helps with covering runs - as a spare Stockton driver could theoretically be able to cover an X93 between Middlesbrough and Whitby using a Stockton vehicle if the need really did arise.

(30 Jan 2015, 3:19 pm)Jimmi wrote Having ridden the new B9TL's on the X93 on Monday they could maybe get up Sutton Bank although you do have to account for the traffic following the bus up there.

Problem is though is where would Arriva get some B9TL's from for this service  suggestion as sorry for sounding all DaveyBowyer but I think B9TL's may be the only low floor bus that could maybe handle Sutton Bank and if you can't get any it's not worth sending a bus up there as pretty much everything else would probably struggle.

I
With a bit of TLC, 7453 - 7456 could just about handle Sutton Bank. Will they be bringing Pulsar Gemini's down from Blyth as summer extras?

(30 Jan 2015, 6:09 pm)Kuyoyo wrote You mean the loopholes that have been used for 6 or 7 years and haven't been outlawed yet  

The issues is - X93 arrives in Scarborough an hour and a half late at present with a tachograph, it means the driver will have to taken his or her 35 minutes legal break there as European Driving Hours are upto 4 hours 30 minutes before the meal break must be taken, meaning given the shift pattern he or she would have to take their break there and then. That also then screws up their second half as well.

Under domestic driving hours, the bus could set off straight back as the driver is only 2 hours 32 minutes into his legal 5 hours 30 minutes.

It also helps with covering runs - as a spare Stockton driver could theoretically be able to cover an X93 between Middlesbrough and Whitby using a Stockton vehicle if the need really did arise.

I agree - certainly not all about saving money... Removing the need for tachographs on service X93 could improve reliability of the service (on paper at least!)