(13 Apr 2024, 3:13 pm)Storx wrote It wouldn't be an express bus though if it stopped everywhere though. If you wanted to serve North Hartlepool, you'd be better doing a bus that links Horden station and Hartlepool and have the buses connecting with the trains, with through fares etc.

You could even make the case for a station at Hart / West View really. The railway line needs investment is the answer imo, it's shockingly poor for the amount of places it serves.

A bus from Hartlepool to Newcastle / Sunderland would be just too long and unattractive and would just duplicate other services ie. 23/24 beyond that. The fact the 22/24, between Sunderland and Peterlee is already dead suggests the demand isn't there.

I have already suggested what route it could do and it not duplication  any other services.  The X5 and 231 both ran between Hartlepool and Newcastle fit decades.  The X10 is always packed so I think the demand is there if it was tried.

(13 Apr 2024, 12:35 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas I have been thinking for Country Durham and Teesside / North Yorkshire network. ( Yes I know it’s unlikely before any says it ) but it is surprising they have not made more use of East Yorkshire especially when Arriva is struggling in the Whitby area. 

X1, X2, X3 X4
X1 extended to Hartlepool.  Current route to Easington Lane then via Dalton Park and A19 to Hart Village and Throston Grange Estate to University Hospital of Hartlepool. Then limited stop to Hartlepool Town Centre and Interchange.
Every 60 minutes to Hartlepool and every 30 to Easington Lane and Dalton Park.

X2 Newcastle to Peterlee every 30 minutes limited stop via X1 route to Easington Lane then via Murton, Easington Village and Hordon to Peterlee Bus Station. 

X3 Newcastle to Darlington via Nissan, Concord, Washington, Framwellgate, Bishop Auckland, Darlington.  Every 60 minutes
X4 Newcastle to Seaham.  As above to Washington then limited stop to Seaham via Chester le Street via 71 route. 

X6 X7.
X6 Every 30 as now to Peterlee every 60 to Hartlepool.  Peterlee to Hartlepool via Hordon, Castle Eden and Hart Village. 

X7 Stockton - Sunderland via North Tees Hospital, Stillington, Sedgefield, Wingate, Peterlee then direct to Seaham. Seaham then limited stop to Sunderland.  Every 60 minutes.

East Durham network as now

Teesside new services. 

19 Middlesbrough Bus Station, Middlesbrough Railway Station, Riverside Stadium, South Bank, Grangetown, Eston Square. 

20 Riverside Park, Middlesbrough Railway station, Middlesbrough Bus Station, A66, Stockton, Yarm, Teesside Airport

21 Stillington, North Tees Hospital, Stockton, Teesside Park, Middlesbrough

22 North Tees Hospital, Stockton, Preston Park, Yarm

25, Transporter Bridge/ Port Clarence, Billingham Town Centre, Billingham Green, Norton, North Tees Hospital, Roseworth, Stockton.

33 Middlesbrough Bus Station, Newport Bridge, Billingham Stores, Billingham Town Centre, Wolviston, Wynyard Amazon. 

East Cleveland

3 Loftus, Saltburn, Redcar, Redcar Morrisons
4 Saltburn, New Marske, Redcar, Kirleathem

82 Redcar, Guisbrough, Great Ayton, Coulby Newham Parkway Centre.


Hartlepool Services

H1 Hartlepool University Hospital, Town Centre, Greatham, Wolviston, North Tees Hospital,

12 Headland, West View, Raby Road, Town Centre, Tesco, Seaton Carew

16 Tesco, Church Street/Interchange, Town Centre, Ward Jackson Park, Elwick, Dalton Piecey

17 Asda/Marina, Town Centre, Westbroke Avenue, Catcote Road, Greatham

32 Interchange, Town Centre, Ward Jackson Park, High Tunstall, Bishop Cuthbert, Trimdons, Sedgefield, Ferryhill, Bishop Auckland. 

Open Top seasonal Services

101 Seaton Carew - Navigating Point
102 Seaton Carew - Maritime Museum
103 Seaton Carew - Town Centre / Ward Jackson Park

Seasonal Express Services

x95 Hartlepool, Billingham, Stockton, Yarm, then direct to Whitby then limited stop to Scarborough via Robin Hoods Bay.

The East Yorkshire thing was a missed opportunity imo. 
Whether that was extending the EY stuff further in to N Yorks and Cleveland (such as the 128) OR allowing the GNE network, to expand south (X9 or X10 - the summer service that occasionally ran was pointless). 
I do believe integration of the two networks would have seen sustained growth.

However, I don't think we will see any GNE forays in to Hartlepool anytime soon. 
That ship has sailed.

(13 Apr 2024, 4:03 pm)deanmachine wrote You really think there's no demand between Sunderland and Peterlee by bus?

Not for more, not really, being honest. The 22/23 are already pretty much dead. These plans are increasing it partally by an extra 3 buses, 2 X1's from Dalton Park to Peterlee/Hartlepool going directly against them through Easington and another on the X7 which has already been attempted and died.

Complete overkill imo. Personally I'd rather see 2 TPH on the Durham Coast Line.

Arriva has already cut back massively on the corridor, in recent years.

This is going into right maybe territory but the only potential express I could see working down there is an

X9: Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Limited Stop (Blackhall Co-op / Crimdon Dene /  Verner Road / Miller Crescent / University Hospital / Hartlepool Marina) - Hartlepool

So you'd have a 30 minute service between Peterlee and Newcastle as it's probably a worthwhile move.

(13 Apr 2024, 4:53 pm)Storx wrote Not for more, not really, being honest. The 22/23 are already pretty much dead. These plans are increasing it partally by an extra 3 buses, 2 X1's from Dalton Park to Peterlee/Hartlepool going directly against them through Easington and another on the X7 which has already been attempted and died.

Complete overkill imo. Personally I'd rather see 2 TPH on the Durham Coast Line.

Arriva has already cut back massively on the corridor, in recent years.

This is going into right maybe territory but the only potential express I could see working down there is an

X9: Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Limited Stop (Blackhall Co-op / Crimdon Dene /  Verner Road / Miller Crescent / University Hospital / Hartlepool Marina) - Hartlepool

So you'd have a 30 minute service between Peterlee and Newcastle as it's probably a worthwhile move.

I don’t know what bus your but every time I get the 23 it’s always quite busy.  

You didn’t read my suggestion properly either as I put the X1 would go directly down the A19 to Hart Village to get to Hartlepool and would not serve Peterlee at all.  I suggested the X2 which would miss out Dalton Park and go the 61 does as a limited stop express to Peterlee.

(12 Apr 2024, 5:08 pm)GrahamD83 wrote Just been looking at the 2 / 2A route and wondering would it make more sense if this route was a circular service? It could continue from Silksworth to Washington via East Herrington and Shiney Row, and maybe call at Doxford business park.

The 42 (and later the X90) covered this route for a number of years in the 1990s/2000s.

Apologies if this has been suggested before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a driver who regularly does the 2/2A it definitely needs looking at one way or another lets just say its not the nicest route to be stuck behind the wheel for 5 hours, the circular does sound interesting though i would have the have the 2 going clockwise and 2A anti clockwise, you could scrap the 39 to Washington and have the 2s serve biddick woods then serve harraton going towards the Galleries from Shiney Row and serve biddick and penshaw towards Sunderland (Chester Rd) , believe it or not there is actually quite a few passengers who do travel the full route and would probably benefit from a quicker journey from the Galleries to Silksworth, i would also scrap the 2s from going down black road towards hollycarrside as it can be an absolute nightmare to make the turn in heavy traffic and i would send the 39A/B through as it keeps the connection from tunstall bank est to ASDA in leechmere as the only 38/38C use to. It also means Silksworth has a connection with East and New Herrington throughout the day rather than early morning and evenings with the 35A.


Excuse the badly drawn map but below is how i would have it 2 in the red (clockwise) serving biddick and penshaw (Avondale Rd)

2A in the purple (anticlockwise) serving biddick wood, harraton and lambton.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

I dont live in the area but could the 2 not be reverted to the way it was and split it into the 2 and 42/42A, and have the 42/42A do the Clockwise/Anti-Clockwise route you's have been talking about and the 2 then being the quicker direct service to Washington

(13 Apr 2024, 9:01 pm)col87 wrote I don’t know what bus your but every time I get the 23 it’s always quite busy.  

You didn’t read my suggestion properly either as I put the X1 would go directly down the A19 to Hart Village to get to Hartlepool and would not serve Peterlee at all.  I suggested the X2 which would miss out Dalton Park and go the 61 does as a limited stop express to Peterlee.

I did, it'll only be really useful for a Dalton Park to Hartlepool service. Omitting Peterlee would make even less sense. The service would just be too slow to realistically sensible for anyone to use, you'd be talking 2 hours from end to end, the train takes 51 minutes. It's just not competitive, driving takes 40 minutes.

There's not really any worthwhile points on the way which might pick up people either. The delays on it would be a nightmare aswell.

This is assuming that there's now some form of franchising going on here but I'd personally do

60: Sunderland to Seaham (Every 15 Minutes)
61: Sunderland to Murton (Every 30 Minutes)
62: Sunderland to Durham via Easington Colliery - Current 22 (Every 30 Minutes) 

60/61/62: Every 7.5 Minutes, Sunderland to Eastlea

X60: Sunderland <> NON STOP <> Seaham <> NON STOP <> Peterlee - Blackhall - Hart - Hartlepool (Every 30 Minutes)
63: Current 24 (Every 30 Minutes)
64: Sunderland - Houghton - Hetton Downs (Replace 35) - Easington Lane - South Hetton - Peterlee - Blackhall - Hart - Hartlepool (Every 30 Minutes)

X60/63/64: Every 10 Minutes, Peterlee to Hartlepool
62/63: Every 15 Minutes, Peterlee to Durham
20/X20/64: Every 15 Minutes, Houghton to Sunderland

X1: Every 30 Minutes: Peterlee to Newcastle via South Hetton
X2: Every 30 Minutes: Peterlee to Newcastle via Murton
X3: Every 30 Minutes: Low Moorsley to Newcastle (35 route from Low Moorsley to Hetton)

X1/X2/X3: Every 10 Minutes Hetton to Newcastle

35: 35A route all day, between Houghton and Boldon only.

Be much tidier than the jumped up buses between Seaham and Sunderland which there are currently and removed the need for the silly 61 extension.

(14 Apr 2024, 12:32 am)Theboyle92 wrote As a driver who regularly does the 2/2A it definitely needs looking at one way or another lets just say its not the nicest route to be stuck behind the wheel for 5 hours, the circular does sound interesting though i would have the have the 2 going clockwise and 2A anti clockwise, you could scrap the 39 to Washington and have the 2s serve biddick woods then serve harraton  going towards the Galleries from Shiney Row and serve biddick and penshaw towards Sunderland (Chester Rd) , believe it or not there is actually quite a few passengers who do travel the full route and would probably benefit from a quicker journey from the Galleries to Silksworth, i would also scrap the 2s from going down black road towards hollycarrside as it can be an absolute nightmare to make the turn in heavy traffic and i would send the 39A/B through as it keeps the connection from tunstall bank est to ASDA in leechmere as the only 38/38C use to. It also means Silksworth has a connection with East and New Herrington throughout the day rather than early morning and evenings with the 35A.


Excuse the badly drawn map but below is how i would have it 2 in the red (clockwise) serving biddick and penshaw (Avondale Rd)

2A in the purple (anticlockwise) serving biddick wood, harraton and lambton. 

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

You're removing the section between Harraton and Shiney Row via Fatfield Club and Station Lane doing it that way. 

Surely there's enough time to double back from Biddick Woods via the Washington Highway to maintain that link? The locals would be kicking off if you removed their connection to 2 social clubs and 3 pubs.

(14 Apr 2024, 11:35 am)Andreos1 wrote You're removing the section between Harraton and Shiney Row via Fatfield Club and Station Lane doing it that way. 

Surely there's enough time to double back from Biddick Woods via the Washington Highway to maintain that link? The locals would be kicking off if you removed their connection to 2 social clubs and 3 pubs.

I would change the 4 route to turn left at fatfield bridge along bowmill lane past the clubs then right onto biddick lane then right onto fallowfield way back on normal route then have the 8 go straight on towards fatfield bridge turn left onto worm hill terrace then left like current 2A and back onto normal route at biddick lane no stops would be missed.

4 in Pink
8 in Green

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

(14 Apr 2024, 9:46 am)Storx wrote I did, it'll only be really useful for a Dalton Park to Hartlepool service. Omitting Peterlee would make even less sense. The service would just be too slow to realistically sensible for anyone to use, you'd be talking 2 hours from end to end, the train takes 51 minutes. It's just not competitive, driving takes 40 minutes.

There's not really any worthwhile points on the way which might pick up people either. The delays on it would be a nightmare aswell.

This is assuming that there's now some form of franchising going on here but I'd personally do

60: Sunderland to Seaham (Every 15 Minutes)
61: Sunderland to Murton (Every 30 Minutes)
62: Sunderland to Durham via Easington Colliery - Current 22 (Every 30 Minutes) 

60/61/62: Every 7.5 Minutes, Sunderland to Eastlea

X60: Sunderland <> NON STOP <> Seaham <> NON STOP <> Peterlee - Blackhall - Hart - Hartlepool (Every 30 Minutes)
63: Current 24 (Every 30 Minutes)
64: Sunderland - Houghton - Hetton Downs (Replace 35) - Easington Lane - South Hetton - Peterlee - Blackhall - Hart - Hartlepool (Every 30 Minutes)

X60/63/64: Every 10 Minutes, Peterlee to Hartlepool
62/63: Every 15 Minutes, Peterlee to Durham
20/X20/64: Every 15 Minutes, Houghton to Sunderland

X1: Every 30 Minutes: Peterlee to Newcastle via South Hetton
X2: Every 30 Minutes: Peterlee to Newcastle via Murton
X3: Every 30 Minutes: Low Moorsley to Newcastle (35 route from Low Moorsley to Hetton)

X1/X2/X3: Every 10 Minutes Hetton to Newcastle

35: 35A route all day, between Houghton and Boldon only.

Be much tidier than the jumped up buses between Seaham and Sunderland which there are currently and removed the need for the silly 61 extension.

Ok the X10 takes longer than the train but it’s still always packed end to end so that’s not really an excuse. The X5 used to work as did the 231 before Go North East got rid of them so am fairly confident it would work now.  My X1 idea would be limited stop so really it would only be. Hartlepool Interchange, Hartlepool Victoria Road, Mill House, Dyke House School, University Hospital, All stops Throston Grange and all stops Hart Village, Dalton Park, Easington Lane clock, Houghton Le Spring, then whatever stop it is to Washington then more or less direct to Newcastle so am fairly sure it would work.

(14 Apr 2024, 11:44 am)col87 wrote Ok the X10 takes longer than the train but it’s still always packed end to end so that’s not really an excuse. The X5 used to work as did the 231 before Go North East got rid of them so am fairly confident it would work now.  My X1 idea would be limited stop so really it would only be. Hartlepool Interchange, Hartlepool Victoria Road, Mill House, Dyke House School, University Hospital, All stops Throston Grange and all stops Hart Village, Dalton Park, Easington Lane clock, Houghton Le Spring, then whatever stop it is to Washington then more or less direct to Newcastle so am fairly sure it would work.

The X10 takes an hour from Peterlee, the X1 from Dalton Park would 90 mins+ though.

That's the big problem, also the slow part of the train is between Hartlepool and Middlesbrough as it goes on a magical detour around Stockton, Hartlepool to Newcastle is much more competitive on the train. Remember the X10, serves Peterlee, Billingham and Stockton which aren't really on the railway line at all aswell and it has had it's frequency cut in half recently aswell.

Been watching these 2/2A ideas but imo you'd be better making a Sunderland super loop which combines the 2/8 together instead, with expresses running inbetween resulting in this.

1/1A (Sunderland Loop): Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Penshaw - Rickleton - Ayton - Washington - HMRC - Castletown - Southwark - Sunderland
X2: Washington - Fatfield - Penshaw - [LIMITED STOP] - Royal Hospital - [LIMITED STOP] - Sunderland - Silksworth
X2A: Pennywell - [NON STOP] - Royal Hospital - [LIMITED STOP] - Sunderland - Silksworth
39A/B: All terminate at Sunderland

The Washington side as a result would look like this

(1/1A - Purple, 8 - Green, X2 - Pink, 50 - Blue)

and the Sunderland side looking like this:

(1/1A - Purple, X2/X2A - Pink, 35/35A - Yellow, 16 - Green, Combined - Black)

It would clean up both sides imo, with the 1/1A/16/35 all working together to give a 7.5 minute service (16 dropped in frequency) at the Sunderland side and a much much cleaner service in Washington with the 50 sped up and no real lost links on the 8 as they're mostly covered by the 78 anyway. We might aswell assume it's all franchising soon pretty much.

It's bonkers there's no bus service between Washington and the Stadium of Light, this would now cover it and a new express service with the X2 between Washington and Sunderland. There's way too many stopping buses along Chester Road currently. 7.5 mins is more than enough, with the 78 and 8 (SNE) running there aswell.

(14 Apr 2024, 1:21 pm)Storx wrote Been watching these 2/2A ideas but imo you'd be better making a Sunderland super loop which combines the 2/8 together instead, with expresses running inbetween resulting in this.

1/1A (Sunderland Loop): Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Penshaw - Rickleton - Ayton - Washington - HMRC - Castletown - Southwark - Sunderland 
X2: Washington - Fatfield - Penshaw - [LIMITED STOP] - Royal Hospital - [LIMITED STOP] - Sunderland - Silksworth
X2A: Pennywell - [NON STOP] - Royal Hospital - [LIMITED STOP] - Sunderland - Silksworth
39A/B: All terminate at Sunderland

The Washington side as a result would look like this

(1/1A - Purple, 8 - Green, X2 - Pink, 50 - Blue)

and the Sunderland side looking like this:

(1/1A - Purple, X2/X2A - Pink, 35/35A - Yellow, 16 - Green, Combined - Black)

It would clean up both sides imo, with the 1/1A/16/35 all working together to give a 7.5 minute service (16 dropped in frequency) at the Sunderland side and a much much cleaner service in Washington with the 50 sped up and no real lost links on the 8 as they're mostly covered by the 78 anyway. We might aswell assume it's all franchising soon pretty much.

It's bonkers there's no bus service between Washington and the Stadium of Light, this would now cover it and a new express service with the X2 between Washington and Sunderland. There's way too many stopping buses along Chester Road currently. 7.5 mins is more than enough, with the 78 and 8 (SNE) running there aswell.

They did something similar between getting rid of the X4, 185, 186 & 638 and introducing the 2.
Was only short lived mind. I think it was numbered something like the 773 and 774.

(14 Apr 2024, 2:24 pm)Andreos1 wrote They did something similar between getting rid of the X4, 185, 186 & 638 and introducing the 2.
Was only short lived mind. I think it was numbered something like the 773 and 774.

It was. The 773/774 was later shortened to the 73/74 of which the 73 remained until its withdrawal reletively recently.

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(14 Apr 2024, 2:24 pm)Andreos1 wrote They did something similar between getting rid of the X4, 185, 186 & 638 and introducing the 2.
Was only short lived mind. I think it was numbered something like the 773 and 774.

Must admit, can't remember that one. Remember the 8 going along Chester Road though, and the 73 I believe which covered that before as mentioned after.

The 8 is just a bizarre route to me, just a long route with arguably very little people wanting to cross Washington as there's alternative services doing the same areas (50 or 78) and not an awful lot along the route. It might've been decent service to get the ship workers to the docks but that boat last sailed over 30 year ago. 

Feels like it's a service which is being ran for reasons beyond money at the Eastern side, ie GNE don't want competition between Washington / Castletown and Sunderland.

(14 Apr 2024, 7:01 pm)Storx wrote Must admit, can't remember that one. Remember the 8 going along Chester Road though, and the 73 I believe which covered that before as mentioned after.

The 8 is just a bizarre route to me, just a long route with arguably very little people wanting to cross Washington as there's alternative services doing the same areas (50 or 78) and not an awful lot along the route. It might've been decent service to get the ship workers to the docks but that boat last sailed over 30 year ago. 

Feels like it's a service which is being ran for reasons beyond money at the Eastern side, ie GNE don't want competition between Washington / Castletown and Sunderland.

Yeah, they renumbered it after a year or so to the 73 and 74.
Then not long after that, it became the 2 and they axed the northern part of the route.
The original numbering presumably designed to work alongside the 775, 777 etc. 

One of my biggest issues with the 8 and 50, is that they're timed to basically follow each other from Chester towards Washington AND from Washington towards Chester.
An entire hour to play with and they decide to run them together.

It's been like that for years and I can't see them changing it now.

(14 Apr 2024, 7:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote Yeah, they renumbered it after a year or so to the 73 and 74.
Then not long after that, it became the 2 and they axed the northern part of the route.
The original numbering presumably designed to work alongside the 775, 777 etc. 

One of my biggest issues with the 8 and 50, is that they're timed to basically follow each other from Chester towards Washington AND from Washington towards Chester.
An entire hour to play with and they decide to run them together.

It's been like that for years and I can't see them changing it now.

Ah fairs, interesting.

The whole of East Birtley / SW Washington is just a complete mess if you ask me, got the 8 going express doing arguably nothing, the 50 going on magical mystery tour around every door it can when people actually want to travel through then the 25 and 81/82/82A/83/37 or whatever number we're going for this week existing in some different form every week.

Compete mess, as an understatement and arguably the worst part of the network in the whole of Tyne and Wear other than parts of North Tyneside which is much the same. Hopefully it's the sort of place they get a grip of if franchising comes in rather than doing more of the same.

See how I would change the Gateshead services to actually connect to places other than just Newcastle or Gateshead Interchange...
(if a service is not mentioned then it has not been touched - such as 21 & 27 etc...)

*My apologies for the photo quality, I have no idea how it became blurry...and when I try to remove the photos from the post it crashes*

1 Metrocentre → Whitley Bay Map

• Quicker Cross-Tyne journeys to the Metrocentre
  

5/5A Newcastle → Annfield Plain/Fines Park Map Map

• New Connections from Annfield Plain to Metrocentre
  
• Combined frequencies 5/5A every 30 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

6 Newcastle → Durham Map

• New Connections from Whickham to Durham & Sacriston to Newcastle
  
• Combined frequencies with 6/16 to every 15 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

10/A/B Newcastle → Hexham/Prudhoe Map & Map 

• New Connections from Rockwood Hill & Prudhoe
  
• New through travel on 10A/10B allowing one journey to/from Tyne Retail Park
  

28/A/29 Newcastle → Chester-Le-St [20] Map Map  Map

• New Connections from Birtley, Increased combined freq.
  
• Combined Frequency of 10 mins with 56, until QE Hospital
  

X30/X31 Newcastle → Stanley [30] 
45/46 Newcastle → Consett Delves [20]

• New Connections from Delves to Newcastle & Metrocentre (45-46-45)
  

47 Newcastle → Blackhall Mill/Consett [30]

• New Connections Consett to Blaydon/Winlaton
  

48/49 Heworth → Blackhall Mill/Winlaton [20]

• New connections West/East Gateshead to Metrocentre & Team Valley (49-48-49)
  

51 Gateshead | Heworth | Amazon | Wrekenton | Low Fell | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

52 Gateshead | Low Fell | Wrekenton | Amazon | Heworth | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

53 Newcastle | Quayside | Gateshead | Saltwell Park | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

54 Newcastle | Saltwell Park | Gateshead | Quayside | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

55 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] Map (Interworks with 56)

• New Connections from Sunderland, Concord & Gateshead to Team Valley
  

56 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] (Interworks with 55)

• Reduced freq to enable increased combined freq [every 10 mins] Newcastle to Wrekenton (28/28A/29/56) & Wrekenton to Sunderland (55/56) 
  

57 Winlaton → Wardley [20] Map A | Map B 

• New cross city connections between East/West Gateshead & Newcastle Business Park
  
• Increased Frequency to accommodate route changes.
  

58 Newcastle → Heworth [20]

• Reduction in frequency to enable increased combined freq and route changes
  

X71 Newcastle → Castleside (Interworks with X5/X15)
97 Newcastle → Metrocentre Asda [20] (as it was for years)

Withdrawn/Changed Routes;
X72 - 5/5A/48 route replacement
16A - now 6 extension
686 - would need significantly changing (10A/10B)
34 - northern section of route either cut or changed
X45/47 - Changed into 45/46 & 47 extended once an hour to Consett
49/49A - new 47/48/49 routes encompass this route. 
93/94 - rerouted 51/52 covers northern part of route. New 48/49 routes cover southern part.
96 - covered by new 48/49
51/52 - route changes now covered by rerouted 57/58
29/25 - route variation for 29 and new 55 covers northern section of route
12/57 - 12 now numbered 57 and connects to gateshead. 57 rerouted.
58 - new route
1 - route changed to run via Dunston, Western part of route covered by 97.

(26 Apr 2024, 12:44 am)logidoodah wrote See how I would change the Gateshead services to actually connect to places other than just Newcastle or Gateshead Interchange...
(if a service is not mentioned then it has not been touched - such as 21 & 27 etc...)

*My apologies for the photo quality, I have no idea how it became blurry...and when I try to remove the photos from the post it crashes*

1 Metrocentre → Whitley Bay Map

• Quicker Cross-Tyne journeys to the Metrocentre
  

5/5A Newcastle → Annfield Plain/Fines Park Map Map

• New Connections from Annfield Plain to Metrocentre
  
• Combined frequencies 5/5A every 30 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

6 Newcastle → Durham Map

• New Connections from Whickham to Durham & Sacriston to Newcastle
  
• Combined frequencies with 6/16 to every 15 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

10/A/B Newcastle → Hexham/Prudhoe Map & Map 

• New Connections from Rockwood Hill & Prudhoe
  
• New through travel on 10A/10B allowing one journey to/from Tyne Retail Park
  

28/A/29 Newcastle → Chester-Le-St [20] Map Map  Map

• New Connections from Birtley, Increased combined freq.
  
• Combined Frequency of 10 mins with 56, until QE Hospital
  

X30/X31 Newcastle → Stanley [30] 
45/46 Newcastle → Consett Delves [20]

• New Connections from Delves to Newcastle & Metrocentre (45-46-45)
  

47 Newcastle → Blackhall Mill/Consett [30]

• New Connections Consett to Blaydon/Winlaton
  

48/49 Heworth → Blackhall Mill/Winlaton [20]

• New connections West/East Gateshead to Metrocentre & Team Valley (49-48-49)
  

51 Gateshead | Heworth | Amazon | Wrekenton | Low Fell | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

52 Gateshead | Low Fell | Wrekenton | Amazon | Heworth | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

53 Newcastle | Quayside | Gateshead | Saltwell Park | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

54 Newcastle | Saltwell Park | Gateshead | Quayside | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

55 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] Map (Interworks with 56)

• New Connections from Sunderland, Concord & Gateshead to Team Valley
  

56 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] (Interworks with 55)

• Reduced freq to enable increased combined freq [every 10 mins] Newcastle to Wrekenton (28/28A/29/56) & Wrekenton to Sunderland (55/56) 
  

57 Winlaton → Wardley [20] Map A | Map B 

• New cross city connections between East/West Gateshead & Newcastle Business Park
  
• Increased Frequency to accommodate route changes.
  

58 Newcastle → Heworth [20]

• Reduction in frequency to enable increased combined freq and route changes
  

X71 Newcastle → Castleside (Interworks with X5/X15)
97 Newcastle → Metrocentre Asda [20] (as it was for years)

Withdrawn/Changed Routes;
X72 - 5/5A/48 route replacement
16A - now 6 extension
686 - would need significantly changing (10A/10B)
34 - northern section of route either cut or changed
X45/47 - Changed into 45/46 & 47 extended once an hour to Consett
49/49A - new 47/48/49 routes encompass this route. 
93/94 - rerouted 51/52 covers northern part of route. New 48/49 routes cover southern part.
96 - covered by new 48/49
51/52 - route changes now covered by rerouted 57/58
29/25 - route variation for 29 and new 55 covers northern section of route
12/57 - 12 now numbered 57 and connects to gateshead. 57 rerouted.
58 - new route
1 - route changed to run via Dunston, Western part of route covered by 97.

What about the South Shields 5/5A?, suppose it could be renumbered 14/14A, and renumber the 26 to 15, and would your 6 effectively be reinstating the 43/44?

(26 Apr 2024, 12:44 am)logidoodah wrote See how I would change the Gateshead services to actually connect to places other than just Newcastle or Gateshead Interchange...
(if a service is not mentioned then it has not been touched - such as 21 & 27 etc...)

*My apologies for the photo quality, I have no idea how it became blurry...and when I try to remove the photos from the post it crashes*

1 Metrocentre → Whitley Bay Map

• Quicker Cross-Tyne journeys to the Metrocentre
  

5/5A Newcastle → Annfield Plain/Fines Park Map Map

• New Connections from Annfield Plain to Metrocentre
  
• Combined frequencies 5/5A every 30 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

6 Newcastle → Durham Map

• New Connections from Whickham to Durham & Sacriston to Newcastle
  
• Combined frequencies with 6/16 to every 15 mins & 5/5A/6 every 15 mins
  

10/A/B Newcastle → Hexham/Prudhoe Map & Map 

• New Connections from Rockwood Hill & Prudhoe
  
• New through travel on 10A/10B allowing one journey to/from Tyne Retail Park
  

28/A/29 Newcastle → Chester-Le-St [20] Map Map  Map

• New Connections from Birtley, Increased combined freq.
  
• Combined Frequency of 10 mins with 56, until QE Hospital
  

X30/X31 Newcastle → Stanley [30] 
45/46 Newcastle → Consett Delves [20]

• New Connections from Delves to Newcastle & Metrocentre (45-46-45)
  

47 Newcastle → Blackhall Mill/Consett [30]

• New Connections Consett to Blaydon/Winlaton
  

48/49 Heworth → Blackhall Mill/Winlaton [20]

• New connections West/East Gateshead to Metrocentre & Team Valley (49-48-49)
  

51 Gateshead | Heworth | Amazon | Wrekenton | Low Fell | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

52 Gateshead | Low Fell | Wrekenton | Amazon | Heworth | Gateshead [20]

• New Connections from across Gateshead to Amazon
  

53 Newcastle | Quayside | Gateshead | Saltwell Park | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

54 Newcastle | Saltwell Park | Gateshead | Quayside | Newcastle [15]

• No Change just allocation of Q3 voltras instead
  

55 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] Map (Interworks with 56)

• New Connections from Sunderland, Concord & Gateshead to Team Valley
  

56 Newcastle → Sunderland [20] (Interworks with 55)

• Reduced freq to enable increased combined freq [every 10 mins] Newcastle to Wrekenton (28/28A/29/56) & Wrekenton to Sunderland (55/56) 
  

57 Winlaton → Wardley [20] Map A | Map B 

• New cross city connections between East/West Gateshead & Newcastle Business Park
  
• Increased Frequency to accommodate route changes.
  

58 Newcastle → Heworth [20]

• Reduction in frequency to enable increased combined freq and route changes
  

X71 Newcastle → Castleside (Interworks with X5/X15)
97 Newcastle → Metrocentre Asda [20] (as it was for years)

Withdrawn/Changed Routes;
X72 - 5/5A/48 route replacement
16A - now 6 extension
686 - would need significantly changing (10A/10B)
34 - northern section of route either cut or changed
X45/47 - Changed into 45/46 & 47 extended once an hour to Consett
49/49A - new 47/48/49 routes encompass this route. 
93/94 - rerouted 51/52 covers northern part of route. New 48/49 routes cover southern part.
96 - covered by new 48/49
51/52 - route changes now covered by rerouted 57/58
29/25 - route variation for 29 and new 55 covers northern section of route
12/57 - 12 now numbered 57 and connects to gateshead. 57 rerouted.
58 - new route
1 - route changed to run via Dunston, Western part of route covered by 97.

Some interesting ideas but the Stanley area is still much the same as now personally I'd go more radical and redo most of it so you'd end up with something like

5 (Dark Blue): Newcastle - Metrocentre - Whickham (Parts) - Burnopfield - Dipton - Stanley - 16 Route - Durham
6 (Light Blue): Newcastle - Metrocentre - Whickham (Parts) - Sunniside - Tanfield - Tanfield Lea - Stanley - 16A Route - Durham
7 (Red): Newcastle - Gateshead - Team Valley - Birtley - Ouston - Pelton - West Pelton - Beamish - Stanley
8 (Orange): Consett - `16 Route - Stanley - No Place - Beamish - High Handenhold - Pelton - Current Route - Sunderland
25 (Pink): Newcastle - QE Hospital - Wrekenton - Birtley - Portobello - Chester Le Street - Sacriston - Langley Park
26/26A (Purple): Washington - 82 Route - Birtley - Blackfell Way (26A) or Kibblesworth - Low Fell - Prince Concort Road - Gateshead - Newcastle (26)
71 (Dark Purple): Extended to Stanley via 28 Route, then direct
X70 (Green): Consett - Leadgate - Dipton - Tantobie - Burnopfield - Sunniside - Gateshead
X72: Withdrawn
X30/X31/X71: No Changes
96: Every 30 Minutes, Extended to Newcastle
97: Every 30 Minutes
7/96/97: Every 10 Minutes, Gateshead to Team Valley North

All these routes would be every 30 minutes excluding the X70 which interworks with the X71 for a 30 minute service Burnopfield <> Gateshead. It's much tidier than the mess currently around Birtley, why not actually make some connections people might want ie. Team Valley or Stanley, rather than another bus to Chester Le Street around everywhere.

The 16 from end to end is pretty useless as it is currently aswell as it does an express route on a detour, having a link to Washington or Newcastle / Metrocentre would be much more beneficial from places like Annfield Plain and it's the same number of buses running through as now pretty much taking the X72 away.



Map above

You could even make the case for merging the 1 and 7 together and giving North Tyne links to Team Valley.

If youre removing the 16/16A I would increase the X5/X15 to every 20 mins

(26 Apr 2024, 8:25 pm)Unber43 wrote If youre removing the 16/16A I would increase the X5/X15 to every 20 mins

Not sure you'd need to, there won't be many people travelling from Consett or Leadgate through to Durham using it, it just doesn't make sense. It always come across as a route for driver changeovers rather than being actually useful.

The rest of the route is just the same pretty much, bar you'd use the 5, 6 or 8 instead depending where you are.

And you see ladies and gentlemen

A classic example on why bus services fail

Too many changes instead of tweaks

Renumbered services is criminal

It doesn't benefit anyone except the office desk the infrequent passenger will be so confused you lose confidence

(26 Apr 2024, 10:04 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote And you see ladies and gentlemen

A classic example on why bus services fail

Too many changes instead of tweaks 

Renumbered services is criminal

It doesn't benefit anyone except the office desk the infrequent passenger will be so confused you lose confidence

See personally, I'd just argue it's just reverting things to before they decided to meddle with everything which have never really worked leading to gaps allover the place ie. Annfield Plain, South Stanley and Dipton to the Metrocentre, Burnopfield to Durham etc. Want to go to Consett, great there's tonnes of routes but who really wants to go there?

The 16 and 28/29 make absolute no sense going the route they do as both routes are extended doglegs from end to end and the bits inbetween have another services duplicating it anyway whether that's the 78 for the 16 or 8, 34 and 78 for the 28/29.

The 43/44 routes were much better than the crap that has come after them which is too many to count (basically 6/7 above). Sometimes it's better to just hold your hands up and admit the mistake . These routes used to be regularly nearly standing load leaving Newcastle which can't be said about the current 6 whenever I used them.

I know some will bang on about interchanging at Stanley but no-one in their right mind will interchange between 2 30 minute bus services. If one is 5 minutes late you could be waiting for 25 minutes+ which is no doubt the same time as the full journey end to end in a car and since the butchering of the X30/X31 and M6/M7/M8 being removed it's basically what's offered.

Complaint already sent into GNE, but daytime 309's need to be put back via Selby/Malton Gardens if another bus isn't added to the PVR. Timekeeping can't cope with High Farm given how built up it is and that's on top of ever increasing congestion around The Coast and Preston Grange.

At least any time saved could be re-invested along the spots mentioned above.

Sunday service is almost unpredictable too!

Question is would it be financially be better for GNE to pay for an extra bus & driver increasing the PVR to 9x (6x on Sundays) given the 10/15 minute frequency with the 307? Or would GNE be better missing High Farm and keeping a PVR of 8x, but losing potential revenue via High Farm and running 5 minutes behind the 306?

Personally I would introduce the X39 to operate through the day and make it an express route

Newcastle Haymarket - five Swans - corner House then express to bottom of station road (coast road stop of Wiltshire drive) then all stops in Battlehill Drive to Cobalt then change the service to 309 and all stops to Bylth

If a service is running late it can operate as a X39 to Battlehill and pick up time.

This would then stop the need to go up and down every ramp and get stuck at every light possible.

(21 May 2024, 2:03 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Personally I would introduce the X39 to operate through the day and make it an express route

Newcastle Haymarket - five Swans - corner House  then express to bottom of station road (coast road stop of Wiltshire drive) then all stops in Battlehill Drive to Cobalt then change the service to 309 and all stops to Bylth

If a service is running late it can operate as a X39 to Battlehill and pick up time.

This would then stop the need to go up and down every ramp and get stuck at every light possible.

Personally I'd up that X39 to every 15 minutes and extend it to Blyth splitting via the 308/309 route in Blyth both every 30 minutes, additionally serving The Silverlink to give Silverlink links and the two bus stops on the Coast Road (no real added time) but at the same time curtail the 308 at Whitley Bay with it going via Battle Hill, you could maybe even link it together with the 306 and create a loop - even maybe via Monkseaton and reinvent the 325/326 in some form which were popular routes at one point.

There's absolutely no need for 6 buses between Whitley Bay and Blyth, it's complete overkill and a waste of resources especially with the traffic issues around the Spanish City adding delays.

ie.
306/308 - Every 10 Minutes, Newcastle to Jolly Bowman, Every 20 Minutes NT Loop.
X38/X39 - Every 15 Minutes, Newcastle to Cobalt (Direct), Whitley Bay and Blyth
307 - Every 20 Minutes, Serving all the nooks and crannies, Hadrian Park; Mullen Road etc.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.01269...?entry=ttu - Visualisation of the loop for those who can't picture it (modified the 306 to do a bit of the 307).

It's basically how the 43/44/45/X10/X11 work between Newcastle and Cramlington via Gosforth.

Obviously it'll only work once franchising comes in though because of the operator differences.

(21 May 2024, 7:10 am)Storx wrote Personally I'd up that X39 to every 15 minutes and extend it to Blyth splitting via the 308/309 route in Blyth both every 30 minutes, additionally serving The Silverlink to give Silverlink links and the two bus stops on the Coast Road (no real added time) but at the same time curtail the 308 at Whitley Bay with it going via Battle Hill, you could maybe even link it together with the 306 and create a loop - even maybe via Monkseaton and reinvent the 325/326 in some form which were popular routes at one point.

There's absolutely no need for 6 buses between Whitley Bay and Blyth, it's complete overkill and a waste of resources especially with the traffic issues around the Spanish City adding delays.

ie.
306/308 - Every 10 Minutes, Newcastle to Jolly Bowman, Every 20 Minutes NT Loop.
X38/X39 - Every 15 Minutes, Newcastle to Cobalt (Direct), Whitley Bay and Blyth
307 - Every 20 Minutes, Serving all the nooks and crannies, Hadrian Park; Mullen Road etc.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.01269...?entry=ttu - Visualisation of the loop for those who can't picture it (modified the 306 to do a bit of the 307).

It's basically how the 43/44/45/X10/X11 work between Newcastle and Cramlington via Gosforth.

Obviously it'll only work once franchising comes in though because of the operator differences.

Keep the 308 out of battle hill. too many buses serve this tedious route anyway. bring back the 44 to Whitley Bay as it was until 2010

(21 May 2024, 8:44 am)ian foster wrote Keep the 308 out of battle hill. too many buses serve this tedious route anyway. bring back the 44 to Whitley Bay as it was until 2010

The 308 was more about swapping it so the 309 had the fast route instead, it arguably serves more places where people actually want to be, only really Lynn Road which would lose out, especially those wanting to go to Cobalt who don't want to go on a magical mystery tour. Never makes much sense imo the fast bus not serving it bar 'it's always done that'.

Agree Marden, Preston Village and Preston Grange need fast links to Newcastle though to be fair, unsure how though mind. Same with large areas of Monkseaton and the North of Whitley Bay which might aswell not have a bus service at all, it doesn't past 8pm anyway which regardless to it's high car usage (not wrong ofc) is shocking for an urban area imo.

The 308 doesnt go into Battle Hill, it go's along the Coast Road, pre 2010, the 309 used to go along the Coast Road aswell, as Battle Hill had the 75/76, but when they were ditched, the decision was made to have the 309 accompany the 310 through Battle Hill as replacements, personally i'd do something with the X39 since it only runs at peaks i would also revise the 309 to miss out Battle Hill