£2 Price Cap, Jan - March' 23
£2 Price Cap, Jan - March' 23
(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have
It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.
Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)
They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable
(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have
It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.
Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)
They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable
(05 Sep 2022, 7:12 pm)Unber43 For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have
(05 Sep 2022, 7:12 pm)Unber43 For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have
(05 Sep 2022, 5:29 pm)54APhotography BBC reported the £1 as the flat single fare throughout Somerset this morning, not surprised if they didn't confirm that before whacking it on their web upload.
I can't see it working, cap initiatives rarely do, and for three months it may prove popular, but if the bus you go for is cancelled, immediately it loses the attraction. A quick look over the plethora of cancellations today offers little hope of any stability during the promotional period.
As you say, a clear and permanent strategy is needed, however with this cabal in power, there are no long term policies towards public transport...
(05 Sep 2022, 5:51 pm)Rob44 I disagree with this like. Those OAPs who put there hand out for the bus, it sops. Engine ideating, they get on sit down then immediately ring the bell to get off at the next stop...... they would all of a sudden find the ability to walk to 100 metres i bet if they had to pay. Nowt should be free
(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.
It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.
Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)
They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable.
(05 Sep 2022, 5:29 pm)54APhotography BBC reported the £1 as the flat single fare throughout Somerset this morning, not surprised if they didn't confirm that before whacking it on their web upload.
I can't see it working, cap initiatives rarely do, and for three months it may prove popular, but if the bus you go for is cancelled, immediately it loses the attraction. A quick look over the plethora of cancellations today offers little hope of any stability during the promotional period.
As you say, a clear and permanent strategy is needed, however with this cabal in power, there are no long term policies towards public transport...
(05 Sep 2022, 5:51 pm)Rob44 I disagree with this like. Those OAPs who put there hand out for the bus, it sops. Engine ideating, they get on sit down then immediately ring the bell to get off at the next stop...... they would all of a sudden find the ability to walk to 100 metres i bet if they had to pay. Nowt should be free
(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.
It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.
Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)
They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable.
(05 Sep 2022, 7:50 pm)Storx Wouldn't be a bad idea. Using Pop at first would probably be better / easier though. It can pretty much do everything already bar the capping (you can pay using it) so arguably would be easier to implement. Not sure how hard it would be to implement caps though.
Whereas the Ticketer system would take awhile to implement and it caps should be multi operator imo. Not to mention Stagecoach don't use them at all.
(05 Sep 2022, 7:50 pm)Storx Wouldn't be a bad idea. Using Pop at first would probably be better / easier though. It can pretty much do everything already bar the capping (you can pay using it) so arguably would be easier to implement. Not sure how hard it would be to implement caps though.
Whereas the Ticketer system would take awhile to implement and it caps should be multi operator imo. Not to mention Stagecoach don't use them at all.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian Single journey caps are useless with a hub and spoke model too. What should have been introduced here, if anything, is a £2 hopper fare. Because if I wanted to go from say Low Fell to the Metrocentre, it's still going to be £4 (or £8 return). By which point I'd have been daft not to use the £4.20 day ticket.
I largely agree with a mileage-based system too, because it also resolves the lack of short-hop fares that are available.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:41 pm)Adrian It wouldn't take a while to implement with Ticketer. The technology already exists; you have mentioned Pop, which is recognised and can be used on all buses to pay for single, return or day tickets. Despite Stagecoach using Vix ETMs against the tide of everyone else moving to Ticketer.
I may be wrong here, but I'd say the barrier is the governance of any scheme. If the operators can't agree on a basis to implement it, then it'll never happen. Obviously the BSIP had visions of that becoming a reality, but we'll have to see what TNE have submitted to the Government in terms of how they're going to spend the pittance received.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian Single journey caps are useless with a hub and spoke model too. What should have been introduced here, if anything, is a £2 hopper fare. Because if I wanted to go from say Low Fell to the Metrocentre, it's still going to be £4 (or £8 return). By which point I'd have been daft not to use the £4.20 day ticket.
I largely agree with a mileage-based system too, because it also resolves the lack of short-hop fares that are available.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:41 pm)Adrian It wouldn't take a while to implement with Ticketer. The technology already exists; you have mentioned Pop, which is recognised and can be used on all buses to pay for single, return or day tickets. Despite Stagecoach using Vix ETMs against the tide of everyone else moving to Ticketer.
I may be wrong here, but I'd say the barrier is the governance of any scheme. If the operators can't agree on a basis to implement it, then it'll never happen. Obviously the BSIP had visions of that becoming a reality, but we'll have to see what TNE have submitted to the Government in terms of how they're going to spend the pittance received.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian Yeah, and that's the big problem at the minute. GNE were running really (and some say too) cheap fares last Summer and into this year, but it was against a backdrop of the most horrendous reliability issues that most of us have ever seen outside of industrial action.I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)
The fares could be 20p, 50p, whatever... but if people turn up to use a service and are inconvenienced by it, then it'll be a long time before they ever try again, if they have other options available.
(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian Yeah, and that's the big problem at the minute. GNE were running really (and some say too) cheap fares last Summer and into this year, but it was against a backdrop of the most horrendous reliability issues that most of us have ever seen outside of industrial action.I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)
The fares could be 20p, 50p, whatever... but if people turn up to use a service and are inconvenienced by it, then it'll be a long time before they ever try again, if they have other options available.
i WAS getting the bus as it worked out cheaper even though i had a 50 minute wait between buses on the way home meaning i would have been back at 715 or earlier in the car but not till 830 on the bus, but now with the changes it wont be cheaper using the bus so back to the car i go
(05 Sep 2022, 4:47 pm)Adrian The cap in Somerset isn't/won't be £1. It'll be the same £2 as everyone else.
The County Council are funding the £1 fare for the Taunton Park & Ride initially and looking at introducing it on some other routes. It's likely coming from the £11.9m they were awarded for their Bus Service Improvement Plan, as one of their proposals was a 'Reduced flat fare ‘£1 around town’ trials across Somerset town networks'
It's really not sustainable. Neither is the £2 cap. Not unless the Govt have a huge change of heart and properly fund buses. If they and others are going to burn money like this, they may as well start swinging that axe now.
(05 Sep 2022, 4:47 pm)Adrian The cap in Somerset isn't/won't be £1. It'll be the same £2 as everyone else.
The County Council are funding the £1 fare for the Taunton Park & Ride initially and looking at introducing it on some other routes. It's likely coming from the £11.9m they were awarded for their Bus Service Improvement Plan, as one of their proposals was a 'Reduced flat fare ‘£1 around town’ trials across Somerset town networks'
It's really not sustainable. Neither is the £2 cap. Not unless the Govt have a huge change of heart and properly fund buses. If they and others are going to burn money like this, they may as well start swinging that axe now.
(06 Sep 2022, 3:04 pm)F114TML I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)My friend goes to Sunderland College and lives in South Hetton, he has to be there an hour early because of the inconvenient times. And not to mention how busy the 61 is now with the 30 minute frequency and the cancellations. If you ask me that and the 65 should both be deckers.
(06 Sep 2022, 3:04 pm)F114TML I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)My friend goes to Sunderland College and lives in South Hetton, he has to be there an hour early because of the inconvenient times. And not to mention how busy the 61 is now with the 30 minute frequency and the cancellations. If you ask me that and the 65 should both be deckers.
(27 Nov 2022, 12:50 pm)Rob44 At least dick turpin wor a mask. SIX POUND FOURTY PENXE for a tyne and wear day tickets from GNE!! Yet I paid just over a quid more for a day rover on friday.
Stagecoach have released details about this:
Bus Fare Cap Scheme Exclusions in Tyne and Wear
From 1 January until 31 March 2023, single fares will be £2 or less.
The £2 Bus Fare Cap scheme has been launched by Department for Transport and the government’s Help for Households initiative.
Almost all local Stagecoach North East bus routes will take part in this initiative, service numbers:
Newcastle: 1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 18, 22, 22X, 30, 31, 32, 32A, 35, 36, 38, 38A, 39, 40, 54, 62, 63, 68, 71, 72, 87, 100, 317, 685, 991, 995, X47, X63, X77, X78, X79, X82, X87, X88.
South Shields: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 30, 516, 575, X20, X34.
Sunderland: 3, 4, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 18A, 20, 23, 99, 939, X1, X24, X24A, E1, E2, E6.
There are some exclusions to the scheme in Tyne and Wear, where usual fares will continue to apply. These are the following infrequent services: 457, 510, 525, 542, 552, 556, 558, 801, 802, 803, 804, 807, 812, 815, 816, 819, 820, 821, 826, 827, 900, 901.
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:51:44:914
The full list of participating operators is avaliable here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/2-bus-fare-c...the-scheme
For the North East (and surrounding areas), the following are taking part:
Abbotts of Leeming
Arriva Durham County
Arriva Northumbria
Connexionsbuses
Cumbria Classic Coaches
East Yorkshire
Go North East
Reliance Motor Services
Stagecoach North East
Transdev (all North West & Yorkshire divisions)
Weardale Motor Services
(19 Dec 2022, 5:47 pm)Michael Stagecoach have released details about this:685 Newcastle to Carlisle £2. Bargain.
Bus Fare Cap Scheme Exclusions in Tyne and Wear
From 1 January until 31 March 2023, single fares will be £2 or less.
The £2 Bus Fare Cap scheme has been launched by Department for Transport and the government’s Help for Households initiative.
Almost all local Stagecoach North East bus routes will take part in this initiative, service numbers:
Newcastle: 1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 18, 22, 22X, 30, 31, 32, 32A, 35, 36, 38, 38A, 39, 40, 54, 62, 63, 68, 71, 72, 87, 100, 317, 685, 991, 995, X47, X63, X77, X78, X79, X82, X87, X88.
South Shields: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 30, 516, 575, X20, X34.
Sunderland: 3, 4, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 18A, 20, 23, 99, 939, X1, X24, X24A, E1, E2, E6.
There are some exclusions to the scheme in Tyne and Wear, where usual fares will continue to apply. These are the following infrequent services: 457, 510, 525, 542, 552, 556, 558, 801, 802, 803, 804, 807, 812, 815, 816, 819, 820, 821, 826, 827, 900, 901.
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:51:44:914
(19 Dec 2022, 5:47 pm)Michael Stagecoach have released details about this:685 Newcastle to Carlisle £2. Bargain.
Bus Fare Cap Scheme Exclusions in Tyne and Wear
From 1 January until 31 March 2023, single fares will be £2 or less.
The £2 Bus Fare Cap scheme has been launched by Department for Transport and the government’s Help for Households initiative.
Almost all local Stagecoach North East bus routes will take part in this initiative, service numbers:
Newcastle: 1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 18, 22, 22X, 30, 31, 32, 32A, 35, 36, 38, 38A, 39, 40, 54, 62, 63, 68, 71, 72, 87, 100, 317, 685, 991, 995, X47, X63, X77, X78, X79, X82, X87, X88.
South Shields: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, 30, 516, 575, X20, X34.
Sunderland: 3, 4, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18, 18A, 20, 23, 99, 939, X1, X24, X24A, E1, E2, E6.
There are some exclusions to the scheme in Tyne and Wear, where usual fares will continue to apply. These are the following infrequent services: 457, 510, 525, 542, 552, 556, 558, 801, 802, 803, 804, 807, 812, 815, 816, 819, 820, 821, 826, 827, 900, 901.
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:51:44:914
Do we know which Arriva/Go North East services are included as part of the scheme?
(21 Dec 2022, 6:54 pm)ifm001 685 Newcastle to Carlisle £2. Bargain.
(21 Dec 2022, 6:54 pm)ifm001 685 Newcastle to Carlisle £2. Bargain.
(21 Dec 2022, 6:54 pm)ifm001 685 Newcastle to Carlisle £2. Bargain.
(22 Dec 2022, 12:12 pm)Adrian Absolutely, but it also highlights why the scheme is unworkable in the long-term.
Someone commuting from Carlisle to Newcastle is absolutely quids in, as is say someone from Durham to Newcastle on the 21/X21. If you live on one of the spokes of the network though, you don't benefit at all.
I could do Sunderland and back for £4, as I have a direct route on the 2A, but Newcastle and back would be £8 (as I have to change buses). By that time I might as well have bought a £6.40 Tyne & Wear day ticket. There's several other examples of this.
(22 Dec 2022, 12:12 pm)Adrian Absolutely, but it also highlights why the scheme is unworkable in the long-term.
Someone commuting from Carlisle to Newcastle is absolutely quids in, as is say someone from Durham to Newcastle on the 21/X21. If you live on one of the spokes of the network though, you don't benefit at all.
I could do Sunderland and back for £4, as I have a direct route on the 2A, but Newcastle and back would be £8 (as I have to change buses). By that time I might as well have bought a £6.40 Tyne & Wear day ticket. There's several other examples of this.
It's a fare cap though gne are already close to that for singles that have just gone up to £1.50 on arriva, here in Durham City.
