(27 Sep 2022, 11:09 pm)toward6931 wrote to be honest im just trying to be realistic, i know for a fact that SNE are not going to end up with 40 plus midi MMCs to see of vast swathes of unreliable E200s and old darts (which are better for hartlepool as more fuel efficient) unless done over a period of years. i sincerely doubt that in the next few years that SNE will end up with enough long MMCs to oust ALX300s, GEN1 E300s, the 08 plate E300s which one or two i think are in worse condition than ALX300s to put on the Es. and i would be surprised if MMCs double decks turn up to replace 2007/2008 E400s, i think if anything it will be cascades from other divisions that will see them off. i would love to see it happen but unless they manage to get a grant or something similar i cant see it happening

I honestly don't think it's being unrealistic.

Stagecoach North East is one of their top operating areas. If they don't start investing asap then they'll turn out like First with hundreds and hundreds of buses which are past their sell by date. On paper everything 58 plate and below should be withdrawn next year or put into secondary roles and it's not happening.

Why should we be getting cascades up here when it's a better operating area than a lot of other areas, it should be the other way round.

Every year they fail to invest is another year that they fall into that trap. Then they start flogging everything off as they on the edge of going bust. It's already starting to become a problem in some areas ie. here: https://bustimes.org/operators/stagecoac...t/vehicles or here https://bustimes.org/operators/stagecoac...h/vehicles (an ideal place to dump the 58 Enviro's they already have some).

(28 Sep 2022, 7:54 am)Storx wrote I honestly don't think it's being unrealistic.

Stagecoach North East is one of their top operating areas. If they don't start investing asap then they'll turn out like First with hundreds and hundreds of buses which are past their sell by date. On paper everything 58 plate and below should be withdrawn next year or put into secondary roles and it's not happening.

Why should we be getting cascades up here when it's a better operating area than a lot of other areas, it should be the other way round.

Every year they fail to invest is another year that they fall into that trap. Then they start flogging everything off as they on the edge of going bust. It's already starting to become a problem in some areas ie. here: https://bustimes.org/operators/stagecoac...t/vehicles or here https://bustimes.org/operators/stagecoac...h/vehicles (an ideal place to dump the 58 Enviro's they already have some).

I know they are one of the top operating areas, and yes, they should be getting newer vehicles regularly and then cascading the older stuff, but they don't treat it like such. for example, the 2018 MMC 400s that Cumbria received (18 or 19 i think it was in the end) ten of those I think should have come to northeast first as passenger numbers are higher releasing the older E400s to Cumbria.

look at what came down to us for the commonwealth games, 2018 single deck MMCs from ST Andrews I think it was while we are still using 2004 ALX300s. Portsmouth has 2017 MMCs even though the route they are on (23 to leigh park if I'm correct) had newer buses in 2012 and again in 2014.

Guildford got a massive investment in electric buses in the last few years 2020? I think it was, you've got areas in the highlands (inverness) which at times are virtually empty apart from when cruise ships come in, but regularly get decent vehicles like electrics and the MMCs like the one that got written off come back from the commonwealth.

unfortunately, because we have got very good engineering staff throughout the division, we get allocated the crap that no one wants because we make it work like the kinetics that should have been scrapped on day one, the 08 E300s, the handful of MOT failures and rebuilds we managed to get sorted for other (Scottish) divisions

(28 Sep 2022, 11:34 am)toward6931 wrote I know they are one of the top operating areas, and yes, they should be getting newer vehicles regularly and then cascading the older stuff, but they don't treat it like such. for example, the 2018 MMC 400s that Cumbria received (18 or 19 i think it was in the end) ten of those I think should have come to northeast first as passenger numbers are higher releasing the older E400s to Cumbria.

look at what came down to us for the commonwealth games, 2018 single deck MMCs from ST Andrews I think it was while we are still using 2004 ALX300s. Portsmouth has 2017 MMCs even though the route they are on (23 to leigh park if I'm correct) had newer buses in 2012 and again in 2014.

Guildford got a massive investment in electric buses in the last few years 2020? I think it was, you've got areas in the highlands (inverness) which at times are virtually empty apart from when cruise ships come in, but regularly get decent vehicles like electrics and the MMCs like the one that got written off come back from the commonwealth.

unfortunately, because we have got very good engineering staff throughout the division, we get allocated the crap that no one wants because we make it work like the kinetics that should have been scrapped on day one, the 08 E300s, the handful of MOT failures and rebuilds we managed to get sorted for other (Scottish) divisions

Aye no arguments there mind to be fair but they badly need to invest otherwise things are going to go out of control. I've just worked it out there and if they don't make any investment before the end of the 2024 there's going to be 140 buses life expired (on paper) using 15 years (so anything older than 59 Plate). That's some serious catching up.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a serious investment up here soon enough. Similar to back in 2007, 2008 and 2009 when we got all sorts of Enviro's. Stagecoach are quite similar to Arriva where they seem to get everything at once with tit bits in between and the times coming back round for the big investments. I know we got some stuff but there wasn't too much around 2005/6 either really.

(28 Sep 2022, 12:48 pm)Storx wrote Aye no arguments there mind to be fair but they badly need to invest otherwise things are going to go out of control. I've just worked it out there and if they don't make any investment before the end of the 2024 there's going to be 140 buses life expired (on paper) using 15 years (so anything older than 59 Plate). That's some serious catching up.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a serious investment up here soon enough. Similar to back in 2007, 2008 and 2009 when we got all sorts of Enviro's. Stagecoach are quite similar to Arriva where they seem to get everything at once with tit bits in between and the times coming back round for the big investments. I know we got some stuff but there wasn't too much around 2005/6 either really.

exactly, I think if they ordered 30 Midi MMCs over 2 years to oust MANviros ,   60 long MMCs over 3 years, using 10 of the first batch to increase capacity over various depots, removing maybe 2 or 3 E200s each at slatyford and Sunderland and 4 at hartlepool to see of more of the MANviros

I think slatyford, Sunderland and hartlepool would really benefit doing this, then oust ALXs, GEN1 E300s over a period of time gradually looking at GEN 2 E300s. 

as for Deckers i would say 75 over 3 years, putting them in service at walkergate  maybe the first 25 creating a cascade to see off the 2007/2008 E400s, the 2nd batch of 25 cascading ten Deckers each to slatyford and Sunderland building up capacity and 5 to tees area. and then the next 25 cascading the next oldest Deckers elsewhere

I think SNE should look at purchasing some Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora's for the E1/E2/E6 and Express Services X47/X77/X78/X82/X87 & X88 as this would release a good number of MAN/ADL E300's to replace older vehicles within the fleet including ALX300's/MAN E200's.

I'd also nab a handful of Optare Solo SR's from other Stagecoach Ops if any are free to operate services 32/32A & 35 releasing some E200's to replace some of MAN E200's across the fleet.

As for Double Deckers I would say services 1, 22 & 38 would be the best candidates whilst also purchasing a handful of Gas examples for the 20 in Sunderland, this would enable release of a large number E400/E400H's to be allocated evenly across other depots such as Stockton which could do with some for their busier boards during peak times.

(28 Sep 2022, 10:43 pm)Malarkey wrote I think SNE should look at purchasing some Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora's for the E1/E2/E6 and Express Services X47/X77/X78/X82/X87 & X88 as this would release a good number of MAN/ADL E300's to replace older vehicles within the fleet including ALX300's/MAN E200's.

I'd also nab a handful of Optare Solo SR's from other Stagecoach Ops if any are free to operate services 32/32A & 35 releasing some E200's to replace some of MAN E200's across the fleet.

As for Double Deckers I would say services 1, 22 & 38 would be the best candidates whilst also purchasing a handful of Gas examples for the 20 in Sunderland, this would enable release of a large number E400/E400H's to be allocated evenly across other depots such as Stockton which could do with some for their busier boards during peak times.

see I'm not a fan of using minibuses as for northeast they are too limited on what you can use them for. plus, especially now the winter months are approaching.

cold and flu season are approaching and COVID is likely to become yearly thing, the punters are already going back to the old ways with windows being closed on busy services, no social distancing and people coughing and spluttering without covering mouths etc. after last time I would say makes sense where possible to go with bigger vehicles instead of smaller. i know other divisions are actively trying to increase their capacity in case of another outbreak and social distancing comes into force again.

I thought these deckers in Sunderland were brought in for school services yet now seem regularly appearing on the 20. The Durham schools now seem to just get single decks now.

(29 Sep 2022, 4:12 pm)Acky81 wrote I thought these deckers in Sunderland were brought in for school services yet now seem regularly appearing on the 20. The Durham schools now seem to just get single decks now.

Didn’t Sunderland inherit the deckers when they took over running of the X34 etc?  Besides, no reason why they can’t run on normal services.

I get the impression they get allocated to the 20 when they have mechanical problems. 19641 seems to have been allocated almost daily for weeks now. 19444 and 19642 have been VOR for a while now too which won't be helping allocations. Probably explains why the 7.21 X34 from Horsley Hill is duped now.

(29 Sep 2022, 4:29 pm)Economic505 wrote Didn’t Sunderland inherit the deckers when they took over running of the X34 etc?  Besides, no reason why they can’t run on normal services.

Aw yes forgot the x34

I think the deckers came for the X34, and possibly a few extra for scholars but tbh allocations sometimes are all over the place at Sunderland - there were at least 2 MAN E200s on the Ecos today (one of which was possibly because an E300 appeared to have broken down), I've often seen gas buses and deckers on the 23 too.

NK55AJY/NK06LUW on bsutimes?

(29 Sep 2022, 8:22 pm)Lollist wrote NK55AJY/NK06LUW on bsutimes?

Could you use fleet numbers please  as opposed to reg. Most of us instantly recognise fleet numbers 
Thank you.

Alr buses that have been withdrawn yet tracked last night were: 22082, 22346, 22410

26071 and 36979 have now returned to Slatyford and Sunderland respectively, with 26285/6 both now back in service at Stockton as of today.

22064’s withdrawal is down to its MOT expiring - with both 22026 and 22080 having longer MOTs, makes financial sense to retain those rather than park them up and MOT 22064.

(30 Sep 2022, 9:59 am)Kuyoyo wrote 26071 and 36979 have now returned to Slatyford and Sunderland respectively, with 26285/6 both now back in service at Stockton as of today.

22064’s withdrawal is down to its MOT expiring - with both 22026 and 22080 having longer MOTs, makes financial sense to retain those rather than park them up and MOT 22064.

Am just wondering would it actually cost much to do Mot for 22064 and 39666 if they was a shortage to get them back into service

(30 Sep 2022, 12:25 pm)col87 wrote Am just wondering would it actually cost much to do Mot for 22064 and 39666 if they was a shortage to get them back into service

With the cascade of MANs from Carlisle as ALX Replacements, no point spending money on 22064 if replacements can be sourced to assist.
The short MANs will not be revived - they were withdrawn when their MOT expired as parts are hard to obtain and expensive. They’ll be stripped for parts to keep the others going but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the remaining examples will still be here come this time next year.

(12 Sep 2022, 8:16 am)Kuyoyo wrote As confirmed by Lee Wardle on Buses Northeast Facebook group, further MAN E300s due to transfer from Carlisle are 22885 (SP09 DSE), 24122 (PX59 AZL) and 24169 (PO59 MXC).

And the same source has confirmed the transfer of 24116/20 (PX59 AZB/G) is pencilled in for next weekend, with further examples due to cascade during November.

Are all enviro 300 other feet to replace all alx 300 then?

No alx300s going to Stockton

Thanks for info mate

Why are alx 300 coming up to Stockton depot for.

(02 Oct 2022, 4:20 pm)glen wrote Why are alx 300 coming up to Stockton depot for.

so SCNE isnt needlessly wasting money having non compliant vehicles in a CAZ zone

Thanks for info mate

its a shame with the Carlisle cascade that there doesn't sound like there is going to be an effort to increase carrying capacity across the region. i think the six that have arrived so far you could have easily done a 50/50 split between removing 3 ALX300 from service at slatyford and putting 2 in service at hartlepool, 3 E200s at slatyford cascading them to hartlepool.

5MANviros out of service and 1 ALX300 to be used for component recovery doesn't sound too bad especially now more E300s seem to be slated for here

Personally I think the Enviro 300's should be going to Stockton, whatever this week going to Newcastle and the ALX 300's replacing the MAN Enviro 200's

An Enviro 200 MMC to an ALX 300 is a serious downgrade whatever way you want to paint it. It's literally going from the best bus in the fleet to the worst bus in the fleet from a passenger point of view. If I was a regular passenger on those routes I wouldn't be happy.

(02 Oct 2022, 7:45 pm)Storx wrote Personally I think the Enviro 300's should be going to Stockton, whatever this week going to Newcastle and the ALX 300's replacing the MAN Enviro 200's

An Enviro 200 MMC to an ALX 300 is a serious downgrade whatever way you want to paint it. It's literally going from the best bus in the fleet to the worst bus in the fleet from a passenger point of view. If I was a regular passenger on those routes I wouldn't be happy.

most punters as long as a bus turns up on time and it gets them to where they need to go don't really care what type of bus it is

Yes but a lot of the drivers will be sick of driving them, bur from my point of view I'd be dead happy to see them come down!

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Personally I think our E200MMCS should stay and instead a batch of our Enviro 300s should go up

(02 Oct 2022, 8:40 pm)Lollist wrote Yes but a lot of the drivers will be sick of driving them, bur from my point of view I'd be dead happy to see them come down!

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Personally I think our E200MMCS should stay and instead a batch of our Enviro 300s should go up

but as stated before that would incur needless fines/tolls for no gain whatsoever apart from keeping slightly newer buses at the depot they were delivered to

(02 Oct 2022, 7:59 pm)toward6931 wrote most punters as long as a bus turns up on time and it gets them to where they need to go don't really care what type of bus it is

I disagree, most punters don't care if the same old bus turns up every day but to get a pile of crap turning up after a nice shiny bus has been in place for the past couple of years is a big difference.

The ALX300's are horrible buses whatever way you want to paint it from a passenger point of view with horrific leg room.

There's a BIG difference between an ALX 400 from 2005 and an Enviro 200 MMC from 2019. This isn't comparing a Versa versus a Streetlite which are similar and are both relatively modern interior wise or a Gemini 1/2 and a Streetdeck.