(03 Aug 2014, 8:37 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'll second that! The 308 on paper is quicker but by the time it gets hammered beyond capacity (warrants a 10 min frequency but can't with needing to combine with the 306), it's only marginally quicker than the 309 if not, the same time and on some occasions, the 309 has been quicker than the 308. The 309 is pretty much spot on and only 2-3 minutes slower on most occasions with the only exception where the 309 takes more than 5 mins more is the peak journeys that arrive in Newcastle after 08:11 and just after 9am.

In the middle of the day it should be alright though surely?

(03 Aug 2014, 8:44 pm)mb134 wrote In the middle of the day it should be alright though surely?

To most people on here GNE is the be all and end all... therefore it would automatically be better... The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

(03 Aug 2014, 8:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote To most people on here GNE is the be all and end all... therefore it would automatically be better... The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

I'm not against Arriva or anything - but the 308 service is shocking. On Sundays it's always 15 minutes late, leaving 30 minute gaps in services between Billy Mill and Newcastle, and weekdays its usually 10 or so minutes late. So it's pointless having the combined frequency with the 306.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:44 pm)mb134 wrote In the middle of the day it should be alright though surely?

Should be ok but can be unreliable particularly during PM peaks and can run late on Saturdays during the middle of the day and a big problem towards Newcastle is that between Billy Mill and Willington, it runs 10 minutes behind the 306 due to the 306 going through Battle Hill causing a further influx. I know the 309 runs 9 mins behind the 310 towards Newcastle through Cobalt South and Battle Hill due to the 310 going via High Farm and Mullen Road but there's also the 58 giving another bus.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote To most people on here GNE is the be all and end all... therefore it would automatically be better... The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

But not all! I try and consistently give all operators the same amount of (constructive) criticism.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote I'm guessing its not economically possible to just have X21/X22 duties... even with our 5's we've got odd bits on 17s, 27s and 9s for example, plus a few duties with no 5's at all including Saturday duties in Stockton.

Aye I know what you mean. I just think it's one of those things that should be thought about prior to making a decision to convert a service to be part of a brand. OCD kicks in when I see a bus with a list of stops on the side/rear, and going no where near those places.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote To most people on here GNE is the be all and end all... therefore it would automatically be better... The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

Since I'll be using it from Blyth I should be fine then (As long as I don't miss my initial bus to Blyth...)

I'm not saying GNE is an end to an all. Look at the 21 when you get buses running in 3's sometimes and the CLS runs can be unreliable. What put's the 309 at another advantage is this:

Driver: 61xx to control, my bus has broken down or / there's a massive jam and I'm running late.

Control: No problem, can let passengers know and see if there's any spares (Percy Main or at an extreme if a 309 and 310 was running late, could try and get a bus with a driver who wants some overtime from Riverside 15 mins from Newcastle).

(03 Aug 2014, 8:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

Really.....Most things that operate out of Blyth, the changeovers depart on time.

Don't think it is down to Blyth being good, as long as you have a spare bus, you can do it providing you are not bothered with right bus, right brand (which clearly Blyth are not)

(03 Aug 2014, 8:54 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'm not saying GNE is an end to an all. Look at the 21 when you get buses running in 3's sometimes and the CLS runs can be unreliable. What put's the 309 at another advantage is this:

Driver: 61xx to control, my bus has broken down or / there's a massive jam and I'm running late.

Control: No problem, can let passengers know and see if there's any spares (Percy Main or at an extreme if a 309 and 310 was running late, could try and get a bus with a driver who wants some overtime from Riverside 15 mins from Newcastle).

Does that in you example actually happen? Most GNE rota's are pretty much done to get the maximum hours out of the driver, but of course taking in to any contractual requirements or flexible working agreements. I'd be surprised if they sent a bus from Riverside over too, as the driver wouldn't have had route training on that route...?

(03 Aug 2014, 8:54 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I'm not saying GNE is an end to an all. Look at the 21 when you get buses running in 3's sometimes and the CLS runs can be unreliable. What put's the 309 at another advantage is this:

Driver: 61xx to control, my bus has broken down or / there's a massive jam and I'm running late.

Control: No problem, can let passengers know and see if there's any spares (Percy Main or at an extreme if a 309 and 310 was running late, could try and get a bus with a driver who wants some overtime from Riverside 15 mins from Newcastle).

Blyth do a very good job of keeping buses on-time from the Blyth end, so I'm guessing if the 308 didn't arrive in on time, they'd get whichever bus is in the depot and put it on the 308 stand so that it can depart on time - even if this does mean a branded vehicle is going to go out on a service which it shouldn't, causing customer confusion, etc etc...

Clearly, the issue lies at the Newcastle end. Drivers are faced with an awful predicament whereby they have to get out of the cab to ring control, alerting them that they're late, and seek guidance as to whether they should be regulated or not (making customers even more annoyed in the process - with a telephone call taking more time than something over the radio would) - or be put under pressure to try and make up time. I'd hope that drivers wouldn't self-regulate.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:58 pm)citaro5284 wrote Really.....Most things that operate out of Blyth, the changeovers depart on time.

Don't think it is down to Blyth being good, as long as you have a spare bus, you can do it providing you are not bothered with right bus, right brand (which clearly Blyth are not)

I'd take having a normal bus turn up on time over a branded bus turning up late any day of the week, as would most customers

(03 Aug 2014, 8:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote To most people on here GNE is the be all and end all... therefore it would automatically be better... The 308 runs at a 15 min frequency and Blyth being so good with changeovers usually ensure everything departs on time, thats why they're our top depot for on time performance...

I think a lot of people discuss GNE because of the nature of their services and the demographics of the group - the majority of regular posters seemingly live within the GNE patch or have experience of them, whilst travelling into the area from say Teesside.

However, I am not sure GNE would be assumed to be automatically better in everyone's eyes.
They're all as bad as each other in mine

(03 Aug 2014, 8:59 pm)Dan wrote Blyth do a very good job of keeping buses on-time from the Blyth end, so I'm guessing if the 308 didn't arrive in on time, they'd get whichever bus is in the depot and put it on the 308 stand so that it can depart on time - even if this does mean a branded vehicle is going to go out on a service which it shouldn't, causing customer confusion, etc etc...

Clearly, the issue lies at the Newcastle end. Drivers are faced with an awful predicament whereby they have to get out of the cab to ring control, alerting them that they're late, and seek guidance as to whether they should be regulated or not (making customers even more annoyed in the process - with a telephone call taking more time than something over the radio would) - or be put under pressure to try and make up time. I'd hope that drivers wouldn't self-regulate.

Despite them getting a seven minute layover at Haymarket, they still can't depart on time! The issue is they sometimes have to wait until the stand frees up, and the traffic around Haymarket is quite bad.
A lot of passengers seem to use the 309/310 as opposed to the 306/308 - not sure if this is due to the added perks, or cheaper day/weekly prices. I just use whatever bus comes on Battle Hill Drive, and for some reason it's always the 58! And that never seems to stop as much (oddly passengers let it go) so suits me fine!

(03 Aug 2014, 8:58 pm)aureolin wrote Most GNE rota's are pretty much done to get the maximum hours out of the driver

You are wrong there. There is not many daily duties within GNE that go close to the 10 hours maximum daily driving.

(03 Aug 2014, 8:59 pm)Dan wrote Blyth do a very good job of keeping buses on-time from the Blyth end, so I'm guessing if the 308 didn't arrive in on time, they'd get whichever bus is in the depot and put it on the 308 stand so that it can depart on time - even if this does mean a branded vehicle is going to go out on a service which it shouldn't, causing customer confusion, etc etc...

Clearly, the issue lies at the Newcastle end. Drivers are faced with an awful predicament whereby they have to get out of the cab to ring control, alerting them that they're late, and seek guidance as to whether they should be regulated or not (making customers even more annoyed in the process - with a telephone call taking more time than something over the radio would) - or be put under pressure to try and make up time. I'd hope that drivers wouldn't self-regulate.

I just don't see why they don't bring back the 44 but via Billy Mill after Norham Road / Coast Road then all 308 stops to just before Foxhunters then via Marden to Whitley Bay. It got a good load at peak times and particularly on Saturdays!

(03 Aug 2014, 9:02 pm)mb134 wrote I'd take having a normal bus turn up on time over a branded bus turning up late any day of the week, as would most customers

Goes against the whole point of branding buses for specific services though.

If Blyth wish to continue to be the best performing depot by always sending out buses on-time from Blyth, then management should re-consider adding more brands into the mix - including brands which see additional customer perks (such as MAX or Sapphire). Having what is almost an entire depot with branded services just isn't ideal in the slightest.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:08 pm)Dan wrote Goes against the whole point of branding buses for specific services though.

If Blyth wish to continue to be the best performing depot by always sending out buses on-time from Blyth, then management should re-consider adding more brands into the mix - including brands which see additional customer perks (such as MAX or Sapphire). Having what is almost an entire depot with branded services just isn't ideal in the slightest.

Exactly. Maybe they could do with an additional Pulsar?

(03 Aug 2014, 9:05 pm)citaro5284 wrote You are wrong there. There is not many daily duties within GNE that go close to the 10 hours maximum daily driving.

I stand corrected, but I find it quite surprising. I would have thought that logistically it would make sense to do that? I know that we maximise working hours for our shift workers, otherwise we would need more staff to cover the same roles.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:08 pm)Dan wrote Goes against the whole point of branding buses for specific services though.

If Blyth wish to continue to be the best performing depot by always sending out buses on-time from Blyth, then management should re-consider adding more brands into the mix - including brands which see additional customer perks (such as MAX or Sapphire). Having what is almost an entire depot with branded services just isn't ideal in the slightest.

Yeah I know, but then they could quite easily put the branded bus back on the route when the other one arrives back? Or instead add a few more minutes layover time...?

(03 Aug 2014, 9:10 pm)mb134 wrote Yeah I know, but then they could quite easily put the branded bus back on the route when the other one arrives back? Or instead add a few more minutes layover time...?

But Blyth doesn't do that...

If, let's say, a 308 doesn't come in on-time, they'll put one of their spare corporate liveried double deckers out to make sure it departs on time. When the 308 comes in, they'll take the Hybrid off and put it in the depot.

The next X4 hasn't come in on-time, so the Hybrid is taken straight back out and put on the X4. The "Quorum Express" branded Gemini then does the same as above.

That just can't happen with branded vehicles. In my opinion, some brands need to be chopped to give the depot extra leniency, or Blyth can't keep hold of this top spot. It's certainly something which needs management intervention, and should have done long before now.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:16 pm)Dan wrote But Blyth doesn't do that...

If, let's say, a 308 doesn't come in on-time, they'll put one of their spare corporate liveried double deckers out to make sure it departs on time. When the 308 comes in, they'll take the Hybrid off and put it in the depot.

The next X4 hasn't come in on-time, so the Hybrid is taken straight back out and put on the X4. The "Quorum Express" branded Gemini then does the same as above.

That just can't happen with branded vehicles. In my opinion, some brands need to be chopped to give the depot extra leniency, or Blyth can't keep hold of this top spot. It's certainly something which needs management intervention, and should have done long before now.

But Dan, the Hybrid deckers are never off route...

(03 Aug 2014, 9:17 pm)aureolin wrote But Dan, the Hybrid deckers are never off route...

Silly me... The Chronicle didn't ever get back to me on that one.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:18 pm)Dan wrote Silly me... The Chronicle didn't ever get back to me on that one.

Well put it this way, do you see 6056 to 6070 straying off route? No becuase they were subsidised by the Govt to be on that route! If Cobalt Park still sponsored the 309 and partly invested in the double deckers, would they be happy at GNE if they decided to run them on the 9, Coaster and 17?

(03 Aug 2014, 9:23 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Well put it this way, do you see 6056 to 6070 straying off route? No becuase they were subsidised by the Govt to be on that route! If Cobalt Park still sponsored the 309 and partly invested in the double deckers, would they be happy at GNE if they decided to run them on the 9, Coaster and 17?

..and management would be having stern words with Chester-le-Street, if they did!

Branded vehicles appearing off-route is one thing, but government-funded vehicles appearing off-route is a completely different kettle of fish - and GNE wouldn't tolerate it.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:26 pm)Dan wrote ..and management would be having stern words with Chester-le-Street, if they did!

Branded vehicles appearing off-route is one thing, but government-funded vehicles appearing off-route is a completely different kettle of fish - and GNE wouldn't tolerate it.

I can't recall a Angel Hybrid ever being off route!
3962/3965 did appear on the X22 now and then, but not anymore!

(03 Aug 2014, 9:28 pm)Tom wrote I can't recall a Angel Hybrid ever being off route!
3962/3965 did appear on the X22 now and then, but not anymore!

Apart from that one time just last week when one appeared on the X21?
I have no doubt it would have been taken off at Chester though.

I believe two have been on the X21 (on an unscheduled journey), but other than scholars, I don't think any have been off-route.

(03 Aug 2014, 9:29 pm)Dan wrote Apart from that one time just last week when one appeared on the X21?
I have no doubt it would have been taken off at Chester though.

I believe two have been on the X21 (on an unscheduled journey), but other than scholars, I don't think any have been off-route.

I wonder how Chester compares to Blyth for performance?

Granted, they are different companies - but it will be interesting to compare lost mileage, delays etc for two routes of a similar type/duration.

Then you have Blyth, who keep the routes running, with whatever they have spare and Chester running light.

There is always a downside to the standards set by Blyth in performance, and we all know what that is...

(03 Aug 2014, 9:38 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote I wonder how Chester compares to Blyth for performance?

Granted, they are different companies - but it will be interesting to compare lost mileage, delays etc for two routes of a similar type/duration.

Then you have Blyth, who keep the routes running, with whatever they have spare and Chester running light.

There is always a downside to the standards set by Blyth in performance, and we all know what that is...

I believe Chester-le-Street has a higher spare vehicle percentage than Blyth; as such, one would expect that Chester-le-Street would be more capable of sending out buses to replace late running examples, before automatically regulating services. That of course is ultimately dependent on the availability of drivers too, I must add. Given the sheer amount of red spares we see on the Angel, I must say I do think this will be partly down to the depot providing late running replacements. I really can't see so many being VOR on a regular basis.

Even if we did have access to the lost mileage figures, I don't think we could compare the two hand in hand simply because of how different the routes are. They may be of a similar length, but the traffic patterns would be completely different I'd imagine.

And on the new 309 timetable from 31st August, there's no longer any 20 minute gaps for PM outbound journeys from Newcastle and they've managed to keep it at every 15 mins without causing any reliability issues.

309 from 31/08 between 16:00 and 17:00 from Newcastle to Blyth:
- 10, 25, 40 and 56

308 between 16:00 and 17:00 from Newcastle to Blyth:
- 08, 28 and 48.

And then look at the combined services from GNE opposed to Arriva ensuring that all services are equal to ensure that one or the other doesn't get a massive influx:

Arriva: 00 (306), 08 (308), 15 (306) then 13 minutes later, 28 (308), 35 (306) then 13 minutes later 48 (308), 55 (306).

GNE: 02 (310), 10 (309), 17 (310), 25 (309), 32 (310), 40 (309), 48 (310), 56 (309).

(03 Aug 2014, 10:27 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote And on the new 309 timetable from 31st August, there's no longer any 20 minute gaps for PM outbound journeys from Newcastle and they've managed to keep it at every 15 mins without causing any reliability issues.

309 from 31/08 between 16:00 and 17:00 from Newcastle to Blyth:
- 10, 25, 40 and 46

308 between 16:00 and 17:00 from Newcastle to Blyth:
- 08, 28 and 48.

And then look at the combined services from GNE opposed to Arriva ensuring that all services are equal to ensure that one or the other doesn't get a massive influx:

Arriva: 00 (306), 08 (308), 15 (306) then 13 minutes later, 28 (308), 35 (306) then 13 minutes later 48 (308), 55 (306).

GNE: 02 (310), 10 (309), 17 (310), 25 (309), 32 (310), 40 (309), 48 (310), 56 (309).

And between 1645-1800 when the majority of people are going home there is 308s at 1648, 1703, 1718, 1733 and 1748, every 15 minutes. While the 309s are at 1656, 1711, 1726, 1742, 1758 (WBay only)
I don't think there is much of a point to be proven.