(14 Mar 2015, 7:57 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote The condensation worries me.

I'm surprised that a bus hasn't burned yet with power sockets and condensation. (57-reg ones)

Put it this way, I used to get 16 year old Olympians to school every day as part of my journey, and they were never cold, late, or wet... Even in the middle of winter and I couldn't care less about the lack of WiFi...

(14 Mar 2015, 6:53 pm)Dan wrote As someone who loves branding and the benefits to both customers (and to a degree, the bus operators themselves, if branding assists in increasing the amount of passengers who use a service), the downsides to "Sapphire" and "MAX" are beginning to show as more and more services are converted to this specification. The issue I have is the inconsistencies between each "MAX" service, for example. The half-hearted refurbishments mean that you can step off one "MAX" specification service and onto another and the specification is completely different. I completely understand the reason why they're not having a full refurbishment as, at the rate of these services being converted, the cost would be huge, but when the presentation of the fleet is improving vastly, it's a shame attention to detail is lacking. As "MAX" is set up primarily for interurban services, wouldn't you expect high backed seating as standard, providing customers with a more superior level of comfort than a standard specification service? Sadly, Arriva is not providing high backed seating on all "MAX" services.

Features of "Sapphire" and "MAX" are being cherry-picked and placed on to standard specification services. Power sockets (on Durham's ADL Enviro200s), Wi-Fi (on many standard specification services), Next Stop Announcements (on some of Darlington's Pulsars), leather seats (on a number of vehicles), etc. This is another of my gripes.

Perhaps it's just me being picky and maybe "ordinary" customers wouldn't give a toss, but I think there's room for improvement. It'd be good if Arriva could start learning from their mistakes.

I know we've discussed this before, and you know my feelings on it. If you're going to have a prestige group of services, i.e. 'Sapphire' or a brand you're going to promote separately, i.e. 'MAX', then attention to detail should always be key. As soon as you start cutting corners, then you lose the value of the brand. 

When I was down Darlington early on in the year, I used the X66 for the first time since the MAX refurbishment. I honestly can't believe that someone has let those Omnicities out of the workshop with that horrific green flooring and panelling. It doesn't go with the seats whatsoever, and stands out like a sore thumb. I even notice on the newly refurbed Pulsars for the X12/X2, that the plastics on the seat stand out a mile, because to me they're the wrong colour (Teal plastics, with a navy body and light blue headrest). I'd be surprised if it cost much more to respray the seat plastics, and that panel right at the back. Doing that the same colour as the headrest would make a huge difference in my opinion. I think there's a few GNE MPDs that had their seat fabrics replaced, but not the seat plastics? Stands out like a sore thumb, and a massive difference to the majority, which quite rightly had the plastics colour coordinated. 

On board features should be a standard across the brand. Similar to how GNE operated their 'Gold Standard' policy. For me, and for the brands to both stand out, I feel they should include the following as standard: White LED destinations (all round), Free WiFi and NSAs. Sapphire should retain the current high back eLeather seating, but I feel MAX should have something similar to Stagecoach's coach seating on the Carlisle-Newcastle E300s. If it's a long interurban route, then the comfort should be there. The standard high back seats don't provide that, and I wouldn't want to be sat on one longer than half an hour really. A criticism I initially had with the TTX B9s too.

(14 Mar 2015, 7:20 pm)mb134 wrote I've gave up with Arriva customer service to be honest, even if I did raise it I'm nearly 100% sure that I'd get a "we'll pass your comments on to the depot manager" and see nothing done about it. They don't care at all, and I can't wait until I can learn to drive so that I don't have to get their late, cold and disappointing buses every morning. 

The management of Ashington must be the worst (except maybe Redcar, although it seems that they've improved), the allocation is shocking, the drivers clearly don't care about being on time, and the presentation of the vehicles is terrible. Now I know there will be exceptions, some drivers seem to do everything to ensure they're on time for example. So even if customer services do pass on my comments, I highly doubt Ashington will do anything to rectify it, as it seems they just don't care. 

Email everything through rather than using the web form, and request a written response. Gives you a record of things. Keep doing it though.

aureolin- Is the email address the same as the one they use to reply (if they ever decide to) via the website complaint form?

(Sorry, didn't want to quote all of that!  ) 

(14 Mar 2015, 9:02 pm)mb134 wrote aureolin- Is the email address the same as the one they use to reply (if they ever decide to) via the website complaint form?

(Sorry, didn't want to quote all of that!  ) 

csnortheast@arriva.co.uk

(14 Mar 2015, 9:08 pm)aureolin wrote csnortheast@arriva.co.uk

Cheers, I've sent an email, will be interesting to see what they come back with... (If at all)

http://www.route-one.net/industry/orders...15-orders/

(14 Mar 2015, 10:02 pm)Racer_Experience wrote http://www.route-one.net/industry/orders...15-orders/

See the list compiled here

Was slightly surprised to see a fairly decent number of passengers on the 2215 7 from Durham - Darlington this evening when we were stuck behind it heading towards Woodham.

The same sadly can't be said for the one heading to Durham.

aureolin
I'm lad to believe to replace the green flooring in the Omnicities, it would have cost more than the whole refurb, just to do it. The problem is, the covering goes all the way up to the roof at the back of the bus, and up to the windscreens and windows and all over the drivers cab at the front. To replace it, all the seat frames and windows would have to come out and I don't think that would have been cost effective for 10 year old buses with nearly 1,000,000km on the clock. Admittedly the black covering on the CX05 reg ones is way better, but you can't have everything!

I don't see how Arriva could have just created a brand new corporate livery and have all the NSAs, wifi and power sockets in there. Of course with leather seats but black.

MAX and Sapphire just don't make sense. Why cherry pick routes to have so called "posh" and "sparkle" included in them. Sapphire, if it really wants to sparkle, should have staff who care if the wifi doesn't work and take the bus off when a change appears and replace it with a Sapphire spare. Seats which offer more comfort (of course 2x2 seating), no matter how much it costs.

(15 Mar 2015, 8:31 am)MrPottski wrote aureolin
I'm lad to believe to replace the green flooring in the Omnicities, it would have cost more than the whole refurb, just to do it. The problem is, the covering goes all the way up to the roof at the back of the bus, and up to the windscreens and windows and all over the drivers cab at the front. To replace it, all the seat frames and windows would have to come out and I don't think that would have been cost effective for 10 year old buses with nearly 1,000,000km on the clock. Admittedly the black covering on the CX05 reg ones is way better, but you can't have everything!

If that's the case, then no, not cost effective, but they shouldn't have been increased to MAX spec. Brand consistency is important, and these examples just look like a half arsed attempt.

(15 Mar 2015, 10:35 am)Tommy_1581 wrote I don't see how Arriva could have just created a brand new corporate livery and have all the NSAs, wifi and power sockets in there. Of course with leather seats but black.

MAX and Sapphire just don't make sense. Why cherry pick routes to have so called "posh" and "sparkle" included in them. Sapphire, if it really wants to sparkle, should have staff who care if the wifi doesn't work and take the bus off when a change appears and replace it with a Sapphire spare. Seats which offer more comfort (of course 2x2 seating), no matter how much it costs.

I think you do need a hierarchy of services, now especially, because you can't justify WiFi, power sockets, NSA's etc. on every service. WiFi I suppose is a given pretty much, but some council funded routes definitely don't deserve it.

The cost of having everything on every bus and to refurbish every vehicle to the same standard, would be extortionate. 

If you look at MAX and Sapphire, they are extremely similar, the only real difference is the lack of power and next stop announcements (on some), which you could probably live without. The difference then to the normal specification again isn't huge, no headrests and that's about it isn't it? So for all there is a much needed ranking the overall product between Sapphire and MAX, then between MAX and standard isn't huge.

(15 Mar 2015, 10:48 am)aureolin wrote If that's the case, then no, not cost effective, but they shouldn't have been increased to MAX spec. Brand consistency is important, and these examples just look like a half arsed attempt.

I'm sure that the 57-reg Enviro 400's had the same flooring, and that's all been replaced in the Sapphire examples, but not in the MAX one's. Surely if it can be done for Sapphire it can be for MAX, if they truly do want it to create MAXimum impact? 

(15 Mar 2015, 10:54 am)mb134 wrote I think you do need a hierarchy of services, now especially, because you can't justify WiFi, power sockets, NSA's etc. on every service. WiFi I suppose is a given pretty much, but some council funded routes definitely don't deserve it.

The cost of having everything on every bus and to refurbish every vehicle to the same standard, would be extortionate. 

If you look at MAX and Sapphire, they are extremely similar, the only real difference is the lack of power and next stop announcements (on some), which you could probably live without. The difference then to the normal specification again isn't huge, no headrests and that's about it isn't it? So for all there is a much needed ranking the overall product between Sapphire and MAX, then between MAX and standard isn't huge.

I see that all new buses are getting WiFi and leather seats - basically MAX - but why are routes being branded MAX, when the likes of the 35 get green StreetLites with the same "added extras".

If Arriva promise power and WiFi on my bus, and it's not provided, I'll certainly be getting my "no quibble money back guarantee".

(15 Mar 2015, 10:59 am)Tommy_1581 wrote I see that all new buses are getting WiFi and leather seats - basically MAX - but why are routes being branded MAX, when the likes of the 35 get green StreetLites with the same "added extras".

If Arriva promise power and WiFi on my bus, and it's not provided, I'll certainly be getting my "no quibble money back guarantee".

This is the problem I have, like I said yesterday.

As a brand, I associate "MAX" with buses fitted with e-leather seating that feature the provision of free Wi-Fi. Services which aren't even branded as "MAX", yet are to this specification, are presented in a better light than some "MAX" specification services / vehicles.

(15 Mar 2015, 10:59 am)Tommy_1581 wrote I see that all new buses are getting WiFi and leather seats - basically MAX - but why are routes being branded MAX, when the likes of the 35 get green StreetLites with the same "added extras".

If Arriva promise power and WiFi on my bus, and it's not provided, I'll certainly be getting my "no quibble money back guarantee".

eLeather seats aren't a luxury. They're more cost effective to operators, as they can be cleaned in seconds. For fabric seats, they should be shampooing them at least once a month, given the amount of use they get. I'd bet most haven't been shampooed since they've been in the fleet, as it'd take a good few hours to do a bus.

(15 Mar 2015, 11:04 am)aureolin wrote eLeather seats aren't a luxury. They're more cost effective to operators, as they can be cleaned in seconds. For fabric seats, they should be shampooing them at least once a month, given the amount of use they get. I'd bet most haven't been shampooed since they've been in the fleet, as it'd take a good few hours to do a bus.

Spot on - but they're marketed as a luxury. Leather is often perceived to be more luxurious and comfortable, and the operators (quite rightly) use this to their benefit.

I can understand some of the comments regarding the inconsistencies of the MAX and Sapphire but then again I fail to understand why some are making such a big deal about some things, how many regular passengers on say the 7 actually care what colour the LED screen is - I can't imagine anyone from Aycliffe going on a bus day out to Redcar using the 7 to Darlington then the X3/X4 Middlesbrough - Redcar, I imagine most people won't care that the X3/X4 StreetLite's have white LED screens while the 7 Pulsar's have orange screens I doubt that would cause people to suddenly think that the 7 doesn't get these fancy pants white screens. The Omnicity's is another one, I admit the colour scheme on them isn't brilliant but as I use the X66 a lot I ride them quite a lot and it isn't the prettiest but I don't think it is offensively hideous like some people on here are making them out to be and again I don't think most of the passengers care what colour the floor and panels are so long as they have a nice comfortable ride and there bus is on-time and when the X75/X76 becomes MAX do we really think most will make a big fuss about how the Pulsar looks different to the Omnicitys on the X26/X27, X66. I am sort of happy that the floor on the Omnicity's weren't done as lets face it they are 10 years old now and some of them having taken quite a battering especially the ones used on the X93 and I'd say they have 5 years left at most before they are withdrawn so to spend all that money making the floor a different colour would be such a waste of money in my opinion as most people don't care what colour the floor is and I don't know why some people on here are making such a big deal out of it, also no-one seems to be making the same deal about Go North East replacing the seats in their older vehicle's such as the MPDs and Lolynes - admittedly that is slightly different as they are mainly used on less demanding and spares work whereas Arriva are doing this on a service with enhanced features but again few people care what their bus looks like inside.

The thing with non MAX and Sapphire buses gaining some of the features from MAX and Sapphire buses is a weird one but in most cases it only gets one or in some cases two of the features like Darlington gaining next stop announcements I believe that this is happening because the council are wanting announcements on Arriva's buses in Darlington, not sure why charging points were fitted to the Enviro's on the 64 and was incredibly surprised to see that they had been fitted with them. Also it seems that many buses are starting to gain WiFi now and not just on Arriva as it seems to be a feature that many people seem to want (I know I do). I do sort of think when I'm sat on the 5/5A when are we getting WiFi on our buses and feel a bit left out with the 7 getting all the nice features and to a point the 21 too where all we've got from the Sapphire experience so far is next stop announcements and it's not the feature most would have wanted so I do feel a bit left out at times although at the moment I'm happy if a Solo doesn't pop up. 

(15 Mar 2015, 11:04 am)Dan wrote This is the problem I have, like I said yesterday.

As a brand, I associate "MAX" with buses fitted with e-leather seating that feature the provision of free Wi-Fi. Services which aren't even branded as "MAX", yet are to this specification, are presented in a better light than some "MAX" specification services / vehicles.

e-leather seating and wifi has become the standard spec on all new and refurbished buses in the Arriva fleet which is why the E200s at Durham got it. Why they got plug sockets I don't know but they're fitted now so I guess they'll stay like that.

MAX was designed (by North East/Yorkshire) give the interurban routes a bit of identity and upgrade the standard being offered to our passengers. However I agree that the Scanias don't look great with the green flooring etc but I can see why it wasn't done. I'm not sure it's as offensive when you're on them than what it looks on photos either, I travelled on a few the other day and barely noticed it... The seat backs not matching the fronts of the seats are much more visible in my opinion.

Sapphire was designed by Arriva UK (and DB) as an attempt to grow passenger numbers on a select number of services with the right credentials and this has been proven on all of the routes it has been implemented on so far... Some with more success than others it must be said, it will be interesting to see how the "class of 2015" do. There needs to be more of an effort made by several depots who were chosen to receive the upgrade and the implementation is poor to say the least. A lot of it is little things that can be improved with very little effort and the fact it is lacking just makes the product offering look poor.

I'm not going to quote Jimmi's post because my post would end up being humongous...

I was actually on service X66 yesterday, and, believe it or not, two old women were discussing the interior colour-scheme. Although they weren't comparing the colour-scheme to another "MAX" service, they were commenting on how ghastly the green interior is and how the light blue headrests stuck out like a sore thumb. It's no coincidence that this debate has started up again shortly after my ride on the X66 from Darlington to Stockton! I know from past experience of waiting for the X93, customers have discussed how they connect to the service at Middlesbrough by using the X66 service. This means that customers are using two "MAX" specification services to get to their destination. If a customer is travelling from Bishop Auckland, they could be using three "MAX" specification services to get to their eventual destination in this instance, and I'd imagine that the Streetlites destined for use on the X1 service will be of a higher standard than the Volvo B9TLs on the X93, for example! One offers high-backed e-leather seating (which is marketed as being "comfortable"), while the other offers sub-standard e-leather seating. This is why the problem is becoming more apparent, because a greater number of services have now been converted to this specification.

I've covered your Go North East related statement in a previous post. The older vehicles in the fleet are merely having their seats re-trimmed to increase book value prior to sale whilst increasing passenger comfort before this occurs. It adds a bit more value to the vehicle, as dealers or other operators don't necessarily have to bother doing it themselves. As you can imagine, Go North East can do this cheaper than a small independent operator! These vehicles are all in Go North East's corporate livery and are of a reserve capacity. They don't form part of a brand, so there's no inconsistency between each vehicle held in that brand. Imagine if half of the "Tyne Tees Xpress" branded vehicles had e-leather seating and had a complete interior overhaul compared to what the allocated vehicles have at the moment? Customers would instantly see the difference...

(15 Mar 2015, 11:30 am)Dan wrote I'm not going to quote Jimmi's post because my post would end up being humongous...

I was actually on service X66 yesterday, and, believe it or not, two old women were discussing the interior colour-scheme. Although they weren't comparing the colour-scheme to another "MAX" service, they were commenting on how ghastly the green interior is and how the light blue headrests stuck out like a sore thumb. It's no coincidence that this debate has started up again shortly after my ride on the X66 from Darlington to Stockton! I know from past experience of waiting for the X93, customers have discussed how they connect to the service at Middlesbrough by using the X66 service. This means that customers are using two "MAX" specification services to get to their destination. If a customer is travelling from Bishop Auckland, they could be using three "MAX" specification services to get to their eventual destination in this instance, and I'd imagine that the Streetlites destined for use on the X1 service will be of a higher standard than the Volvo B9TLs on the X93, for example! One offers high-backed e-leather seating (which is marketed as being "comfortable"), while the other offers sub-standard e-leather seating. This is why the problem is becoming more apparent, because a greater number of services have now been converted to this specification.

I've covered your Go North East related statement in a previous post. The older vehicles in the fleet are merely having their seats re-trimmed to increase book value prior to sale whilst increasing passenger comfort before this occurs. It adds a bit more value to the vehicle, as dealers or other operators don't necessarily have to bother doing it themselves. As you can imagine, Go North East can do this cheaper than a small independent operator! These vehicles are all in Go North East's corporate livery and are of a reserve capacity. They don't form part of a brand, so there's no inconsistency between each vehicle held in that brand. Imagine if half of the "Tyne Tees Xpress" branded vehicles had e-leather seating and had a complete interior overhaul compared to what the allocated vehicles have at the moment? Customers would instantly see the difference...

Don't some of the TTX B9TL's have fabric headrests and some have e-leather headrests?

Again I admit the Omnicity interior isn't pretty but don't think it's offensive although some people are more fussy than me about interiors, I'm just happy the seats are more comfortable than they were before referb, wasn't pleasant sitting on an Omnicity for up to 45 minutes with the metal holding the seats in place prodding your backside.

(15 Mar 2015, 11:38 am)Jimmi wrote Don't some of the TTX B9TL's have fabric headrests and some have e-leather headrests?

Again I admit the Omnicity interior isn't pretty but don't think it's offensive although some people are more fussy than me about interiors, I'm just happy the seats are more comfortable than they were before referb, wasn't pleasant sitting on an Omnicity for up to 45 minutes with the metal holding the seats in place prodding your backside.

One or two do. Think it was a trial and I'm not quite sure why they weren't put back as fabric or the entire batch wasn't replaced! Not keen on those red e-leather headrests myself.

Obviously, if they were refurbishing that batch of vehicles, you would find all would be done to the exact same spec. It doesn't matter whether this spec is better or worse than another batch of vehicles which have been refurbished, because they're a part of a different brand. There's no need for consistency like there should be with "Sapphire" or "MAX".

I can't find a picture on Flickr to prove it, but I'm sure that the new X18 Enviro's have different coloured seats to the rest of the MAX vehicles, I think the headrests might be blue?

I know this is a bit picky, but customers will notice if they get off one bus and go onto another that is duller etc.

(15 Mar 2015, 11:46 am)mb134 wrote I can't find a picture on Flickr to prove it, but I'm sure that the new X18 Enviro's have different coloured seats to the rest of the MAX vehicles, I think the headrests might be blue?

I know this is a bit picky, but customers will notice if they get off one bus and go onto another that is duller etc.

Exactly. It's not about being 'fussy'. It's about wanting consistency. 

There's be no end of complaints if GNE painted one of their Prince Bishops buses a different shade of purple, because it isn't consistent with the rest of the brand. 

My #1 was running 6 minutes late.

On the Sapphire E400 refurbs, the plastic seats have different amounts of cushion inside also the lack of the lighter blue on the side.

7518 has Traveline and Easy Access stickers still adorning its windows and also yellow legals, meanwhile 7525 has "Welcome aboard this Sapphire service X21 to XXX" once it leaves Ashington bus station. 7507 has yellow "EMERGENCY PULL/PUSH DOOR TO OPEN" lettering on its doors.

(15 Mar 2015, 11:49 am)aureolin wrote Exactly. It's not about being 'fussy'. It's about wanting consistency. 

There's be no end of complaints if GNE painted one of their Prince Bishops buses a different shade of purple, because it isn't consistent with the rest of the brand. 

I think they need to have a look at it, because the livery is applied differently on different vehicles as well.

---

(15 Mar 2015, 12:21 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote My #1 was running 6 minutes late.

On the Sapphire E400 refurbs, the plastic seats have different amounts of cushion inside also the lack of the lighter blue on the side.

7518 has Traveline and Easy Access stickers still adorning its windows and also yellow legals, meanwhile 7525 has "Welcome aboard this Sapphire service X21 to XXX" once it leaves Ashington bus station. 7507 has yellow "EMERGENCY PULL/PUSH DOOR TO OPEN" lettering on its doors.

Does it still smell of wine (think that's what it was) upstairs? 

(15 Mar 2015, 12:25 pm)mb134 wrote I think they need to have a look at it, because the livery is applied differently on different vehicles as well.

---

Does it still smell of wine (think that's what it was) upstairs? 

Don't know - was on 7525 today.

I'll find 7507 and I'll have a good smell of it lol

(15 Mar 2015, 12:30 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Don't know - was on 7525 today.

I'll find 7507 and I'll have a good smell of it lol

Ah okay, I was on it on Thursday (I think, can't completely remember!), and upstairs stunk of whatever it was, there had also been some quantity of it, as when I got off there was a dried stream.of it coming from the drainage hole. (So it had been there for a bit) 

Edit: Does 7525 still have that hideous replacement panel?

(15 Mar 2015, 12:33 pm)mb134 wrote Ah okay, I was on it on Thursday (I think, can't completely remember!), and upstairs stunk of whatever it was, there had also been some quantity of it, as when I got off there was a dried stream.of it coming from the drainage hole. (So it had been there for a bit) 

Edit: Does 7525 still have that hideous replacement panel?

Yep, 7525 still has the panel.

It must have been 7507 that had something reddy browny dried on the floor a few weeks back.

(15 Mar 2015, 12:21 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote My #1 was running 6 minutes late.

On the Sapphire E400 refurbs, the plastic seats have different amounts of cushion inside also the lack of the lighter blue on the side.

7518 has Traveline and Easy Access stickers still adorning its windows and also yellow legals, meanwhile 7525 has "Welcome aboard this Sapphire service X21 to XXX" once it leaves Ashington bus station. 7507 has yellow "EMERGENCY PULL/PUSH DOOR TO OPEN" lettering on its doors.

Do any of the 09 reg Enviro's still have the adverts for Lingfield Point inside from when they were based at Darlington depot? Remember they carried the advert on the exterior for ages!