(15 Sep 2015, 12:25 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Arriva are bad at this sort of thing. There was a serious accident on the road that I live on, which had buses diverting down another road for two hours. Go North East reported that the 19 has diverted, but when I contacted Arriva about it, they said that the road had reopened and there might be slight delays (delays- by going down an almost adjacent road 200m away). Sapphire service as always. 

If a Sapphire service passes Dalton Park refer them to their own Customer Charter available on arrivasapphire.co.uk.

I did point out that maybe the service wasn't living up to Sapphire standards, which is what prompted the "out of our control" reply from them.

You would think it would take less person minutes to put an explanation on their website and link to it via social media than it would to field customer complaints, but clearly that's too much like joined up thinking. Besides, if their first instinct is to downplay the extent of delays ten whoever is sitting in a nice warm office, possibly in another part of the country, isn't going to think about such courtesies as letting someone stood at an exposed bus stop in the middle of nowhere on a filthy day know why they're stood freezing, getting a soaking or whatever for 15-20 minutes longer than they should be for their half hourly (or less often) bus service.

(15 Sep 2015, 1:32 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I did point out that maybe the service wasn't living up to Sapphire standards, which is what prompted the "out of our control" reply from them.

You would think it would take less person minutes to put an explanation on their website and link to it via social media than it would to field customer complaints, but clearly that's too much like joined up thinking. Besides, if their first instinct is to downplay the extent of delays ten whoever is sitting in a nice warm office, possibly in another part of the country, isn't going to think about such courtesies as letting someone stood at an exposed bus stop in the middle of nowhere on a filthy day know why they're stood freezing, getting a soaking or whatever for 15-20 minutes longer than they should be for their half hourly (or less often) bus service.

http://www.arrivasapphire.co.uk/globalas...harter.pdf

Arriva Sapphire Customer Charter...

We’ve set ourselves a punctuality target, to ensure a minimum of 95% of scheduled journeys will run no more than five minutes late or one minute early. Where we have to change the service because of roadworks or other factors (such as special events), we will advertise the fact as soon as possible on board and/or via our website, Facebook and Twitter pages (assuming we ourselves are given sufficient notice). 

(15 Sep 2015, 1:32 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I did point out that maybe the service wasn't living up to Sapphire standards, which is what prompted the "out of our control" reply from them.

You would think it would take less person minutes to put an explanation on their website and link to it via social media than it would to field customer complaints, but clearly that's too much like joined up thinking. Besides, if their first instinct is to downplay the extent of delays ten whoever is sitting in a nice warm office, possibly in another part of the country, isn't going to think about such courtesies as letting someone stood at an exposed bus stop in the middle of nowhere on a filthy day know why they're stood freezing, getting a soaking or whatever for 15-20 minutes longer than they should be for their half hourly (or less often) bus service.

Surely it is just basic planning that the operators need to do? Someone putting 2 + 2 together, using their initiative and looking at the council website every so often? It beats waiting for a press release issued by the council!
The information is there (apart from last minute closures) and quite often road signs appear in advance, warning passing motorists of impending major delays - yet, the passenger isn't always informed.

Even if they aren't aware of the closure, until the last minute, as you say - it must be easier sticking out a quick all depots warning and putting a message on social media.

(15 Sep 2015, 10:11 am)GX03 SVC wrote You could claim a voucher... 

People claim them for anything, drivers not wearing the correct shirt/tie, how the floor isn't sparkly, how the bus was two minutes late etc etc etc...

Problem is though, is that the voucher is completely useless. It's supposed to be a money back guarantee, but it's going to cost you money to use the voucher, as it's a single journey. Though I had quite some back and forth about this with Arriva, and they now send me two vouchers every time. That should be a given for every customer.

(15 Sep 2015, 1:32 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I did point out that maybe the service wasn't living up to Sapphire standards, which is what prompted the "out of our control" reply from them.

You would think it would take less person minutes to put an explanation on their website and link to it via social media than it would to field customer complaints, but clearly that's too much like joined up thinking. Besides, if their first instinct is to downplay the extent of delays ten whoever is sitting in a nice warm office, possibly in another part of the country, isn't going to think about such courtesies as letting someone stood at an exposed bus stop in the middle of nowhere on a filthy day know why they're stood freezing, getting a soaking or whatever for 15-20 minutes longer than they should be for their half hourly (or less often) bus service.

On the first point, it's a "no quibble" money back guarantee. Quibble being defined as "argue or raise objections about a trivial matter.". I'd simply reply to them with that, and request that they issue you the refund as promised in their charter. There are no terms and conditions associated with it, as I established when I tried to obtain a copy myself.

You would think, yes, but it depends how quickly the message is passed on. If companies want to use social media to engage, then they need to be a lot more proactive, rather than the reactive approach that you get currently. I must note that Arriva seem to have added to human factor back to their social media engagement, but it obviously doesn't come close to the days of 'Arriva Bod'.

(15 Sep 2015, 5:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote Surely it is just basic planning that the operators need to do? Someone putting 2 + 2 together, using their initiative and looking at the council website every so often? It beats waiting for a press release issued by the council!
The information is there (apart from last minute closures) and quite often road signs appear in advance, warning passing motorists of impending major delays - yet, the passenger isn't always informed.

Even if they aren't aware of the closure, until the last minute, as you say - it must be easier sticking out a quick all depots warning and putting a message on social media.

I disagree. Councils should be required to engage with their key stakeholders prior to any work commencing. Time and time again we're told by operators that it was 'last minute' by councils. Councils should present their comms plans, and operators should present theirs back. That way the information is consistent and accurate.

They obviously knew about it, because they were ready with spare buses to cover for late arrivals from early on, yesterday. Even if they couldn't predict the extent of the problem, they had a whole day to say "oh dear, we have a problem here that we'll all need to be patient with, folks"

I've no bus ticket to have refunded. The point is, even without the poor communication, I'm a lot less likely to decide on a whim to fork out £7 for a return ticket to have a mooch around Durham market and M&S and maybe nurse a cappuccino, particularly as the weather gets colder. They have few enough passengers who pay full price for tickets on the day, as it is.

(15 Sep 2015, 5:53 pm)aureolin wrote Problem is though, is that the voucher is completely useless. It's supposed to be a money back guarantee, but it's going to cost you money to use the voucher, as it's a single journey. Though I had quite some back and forth about this with Arriva, and they now send me two vouchers every time. That should be a given for every customer.


On the first point, it's a "no quibble" money back guarantee. Quibble being defined as "argue or raise objections about a trivial matter.". I'd simply reply to them with that, and request that they issue you the refund as promised in their charter. There are no terms and conditions associated with it, as I established when I tried to obtain a copy myself.

You would think, yes, but it depends how quickly the message is passed on. If companies want to use social media to engage, then they need to be a lot more proactive, rather than the reactive approach that you get currently. I must note that Arriva seem to have added to human factor back to their social media engagement, but it obviously doesn't come close to the days of 'Arriva Bod'.


I disagree. Councils should be required to engage with their key stakeholders prior to any work commencing. Time and time again we're told by operators that it was 'last minute' by councils. Councils should present their comms plans, and operators should present theirs back. That way the information is consistent and accurate.

How feasible can presenting the plans be?
Can a financially (and resource) stretched LA, afford the time to consult stakeholders (imagine how many there are - excluding bus operators?), with every temp set of lights?
Quite often, there are 3rd parties involved, such as the utility providers and external contractors.
It would be a potential logistical nightmare to get everyone involved, taking far more time and effort, than was actually needed. Particularly for short-term stuff.

If you are talking about long term stuff, like the Milburngate Bridge - totally agree, there needs to be some discussion.

As for the 'last minute' works. It is interesting to see how long the plans are in the public domain and the signs are up on the roadside - well before the 'last minute' message put out by the operators.
The A19/A690 works I brought up elsewhere, are a perfect example of this.

(15 Sep 2015, 6:55 pm)Andreos1 wrote How feasible can presenting the plans be?
Can a financially (and resource) stretched LA, afford the time to consult stakeholders (imagine how many there are - excluding bus operators?), with every temp set of lights?
Quite often, there are 3rd parties involved, such as the utility providers and external contractors.
It would be a potential logistical nightmare to get everyone involved, taking far more time and effort, than was actually needed. Particularly for short-term stuff.

If you are talking about long term stuff, like the Milburngate Bridge - totally agree, there needs to be some discussion.

As for the 'last minute' works. It is interesting to see how long the plans are in the public domain and the signs are up on the roadside - well before the 'last minute' message put out by the operators.
The A19/A690 works I brought up elsewhere, are a perfect example of this.

The cost should be accounted for in any project budget. I appreciate that LA resources are stretched, but getting it right first time has got to be more cost effective than the reactive approach taken at present. If there are 3rd parties involved, such as utility providers, then they'd most likely be paying for that resource anyway.

(15 Sep 2015, 1:32 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I did point out that maybe the service wasn't living up to Sapphire standards, which is what prompted the "out of our control" reply from them.

You would think it would take less person minutes to put an explanation on their website and link to it via social media than it would to field customer complaints, but clearly that's too much like joined up thinking. Besides, if their first instinct is to downplay the extent of delays ten whoever is sitting in a nice warm office, possibly in another part of the country, isn't going to think about such courtesies as letting someone stood at an exposed bus stop in the middle of nowhere on a filthy day know why they're stood freezing, getting a soaking or whatever for 15-20 minutes longer than they should be for their half hourly (or less often) bus service.

For a return from Brunton Lane to Bedlington on the X22 highlights your point 
And also Arriva say they have dedicated drivers however I don't think so because the number of times I have seen Sapphire drivers on the X15 is quite shocking

(15 Sep 2015, 7:45 pm)NK53 TKT wrote For a return from Brunton Lane to Bedlington on the X22 highlights your point 
And also Arriva say they have dedicated drivers however I don't think so because the number of times I have seen Sapphire drivers on the X15 is quite shocking

I think it's more a case that (tyresmoke might correct me on this one) drivers on the premium Sapphire and Max services have a wee bit of extra training (because heck some need to be taught how to crack a smile and say please and thank you) but that doesn't prevent them from driving non-Sapphire services.

Do you think Arriva would be able to do something like this on their Sapphire services?

Quoted from the late Peter Huntley (ex MD of GNE)

"We will be piloting a money-back guarantee on four particular services - the x2, x10, x11 and x66, then hopefully expanded after that.

"If we fail to run on time, you simply go the driver of your bus and ask for your money back. It's an idea pinched from Trent Barton."

Though this sounds like there could be potential for conflict between driver and passenger, Huntley is convinced the idea will benefit both sides by resolving existing conflicts.

He says: "Drivers' frustration is that they get it in the neck over complaints from passengers. The 22 stone skinhead is not in my office complaining, he's on the bus.

"In nine out of 10 cases, I believe giving the money back will resolve the situation."

(15 Sep 2015, 8:52 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Do you think Arriva would be able to do something like this on their Sapphire services?

Quoted from the late Peter Huntley (ex MD of GNE)

"We will be piloting a money-back guarantee on four particular services - the x2, x10, x11 and x66, then hopefully expanded after that.

"If we fail to run on time, you simply go the driver of your bus and ask for your money back. It's an idea pinched from Trent Barton."

Though this sounds like there could be potential for conflict between driver and passenger, Huntley is convinced the idea will benefit both sides by resolving existing conflicts.

He says: "Drivers' frustration is that they get it in the neck over complaints from passengers. The 22 stone skinhead is not in my office complaining, he's on the bus.

"In nine out of 10 cases, I believe giving the money back will resolve the situation."

It was one of his more 'pie in the sky' ideas, hence why it never really took off in that format. If a bus is stopping to issue refunds as well as fares, then it's only going to get later and later isn't it....

Unless they're late because they've been pootling along or sitting at bus stops picking their nose, I don't think that is particularly fair on the driver. Issuing refunds because someone took exception to a bus already struggling to keep time, for whatever reason, being made let by some pillock trying to get on with a ticket by another operator, waffling on about it for a while, deciding that they'd find out how much it cost for the correct ticket and then changing their mind anyhow (this did happen a couple of weeks ago - took several minutes and did make the already busy bus a little late) is going to make the bus even more late.

I fear it would also subject a driver to penalties for issues outside of their control.

(15 Sep 2015, 8:58 pm)aureolin wrote It was one of his more 'pie in the sky' ideas, hence why it never really took off in that format. If a bus is stopping to issue refunds as well as fares, then it's only going to get later and later isn't it....

Hahaha, just wanted to see what people thought of it. Good idea in theory but you don't want somebody complaining over a bus running less than 5 minutes late though and getting a refund (unless the driver is toading). And for reasons like this, I don't think it would go down well with some drivers particularly some of the old school ones.

(15 Sep 2015, 7:45 pm)NK53 TKT wrote For a return from Brunton Lane to Bedlington on the X22 highlights your point 
And also Arriva say they have dedicated drivers however I don't think so because the number of times I have seen Sapphire drivers on the X15 is quite shocking

The dedicated drivers were Sapphire trained on the vehicles a couple of months before they entered service. It was in either May or June 2014.

The rotas are exactly the same as before (changes in May allowed conventional drivers on X15/X18), all Sapphire drivers are on the conventional rotas (saloons and deckers), hence why they are driving on 34/35/X14/X15/X18/X20/X21/X22 routes.

Certain Sapphire drivers are also on scholars rotas, so services 295/AM 44.

Forever being reminded why Sunday outings are a no-go...

Late-running buses make connections even more difficult.

(27 Sep 2015, 1:28 pm)Dan wrote Forever being reminded why Sunday outings are a no-go...

Late-running buses make connections even more difficult.

..and I still don't learn my lesson!

The Es are a shambles. Appreciate the Sunderland Illuminations are on but there's barely anyone down the beach.

Not seen a single one running on time this evening. The E1 is currently 20 mins late and still no sign of it.

(27 Sep 2015, 3:59 pm)Dan wrote ..and I still don't learn my lesson!

The Es are a shambles. Appreciate the Sunderland Illuminations are on but there's barely anyone down the beach.

Not seen a single one running on time this evening. The E1 is currently 20 mins late and still no sign of it.

This might not have helped matters
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/local...-1-7483276

(27 Sep 2015, 11:09 pm)BusLoverMum wrote This might not have helped matters
http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/local...-1-7483276

I passed through town earlier in the day on the bus and saw the Pride thing going on - it didn't really seem to be affecting road traffic!

Sundays are never usually great for reliability on the Es but it's never usually as bad as it was yesterday.

The E1 eventually turned up 25 minutes late - by which time I made a mad dash to another bus stop to catch the E2 which was only 5 minutes late.

Anyone intending to travel in the Sunderland area tonight: don't. Every single road is bumper to bumper traffic - Monkwearmouth, Southwick, Hylton Castle, Boldon, Seaburn...

I saw three Stagecoach 3s running in tandem earlier, and I noted a 56 being 50 minutes late. Driver of the X36 seemed to bail at Southwick; instead of going to Park Lane, he seemingly went straight to the depot.

(29 Sep 2015, 5:18 pm)Dan wrote Anyone intending to travel in the Sunderland area tonight: don't. Every single road is bumper to bumper traffic - Monkwearmouth, Southwick, Hylton Castle, Boldon, Seaburn...

I saw three Stagecoach 3s running in tandem earlier, and I noted a 56 being 50 minutes late. Driver of the X36 seemed to bail at Southwick; instead of going to Park Lane, he seemingly went straight to the depot.

Bloody hell, whats happened?

(29 Sep 2015, 5:19 pm)Michael wrote Bloody hell, whats happened?

I've no idea. It took me 35 minutes to get from the Stadium of Light to Southwick Green. That should take no more than five.

It wasn't like this at 15:00, but the traffic has come out of no where. Apparently the same over in Washington too, meaning that the 56 is picking up every delay possible.

Seems to be the A19, Stagecoach's last few tweets:

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  21m21 minutes ago
Sun ops: Servre delays to ser's in the S/wick, Washington area. Sorry for inconvenience.

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  43m43 minutes ago
Tees Ops - RTA on A19 (North) leading to additional traffic and delays in and around Middlesbrough especially Portrack/Newport

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  45m45 minutes ago
Sun ops: Beaumont St blocked by Go-ahead bus ser's  4,16 diverted. Sorry for inconvenience.

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  50m50 minutes ago
Sun ops: Heavy congestion S/wick Rd, Washington Rd area causing major delays to ser's 3,4,13. Sorry for inconvenience.

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  1h1 hour ago
Sun ops: Ser's 3,4 13 delays due to earlier RTA on the A19. Sorry for inconvenience.

Stagecoach NEast ‏@StagecoachNE  2h2 hours ago
Sun ops: RTA A19 traffic diverting via Durham Rd effecting ser's 3 and 4. Sorry for inconvenience.

Go North East:

Services are delayed in Sunderland due to heavy traffic around the Wheatsheaf and a broken down vehicle at Southwick.

(29 Sep 2015, 5:18 pm)Dan wrote Anyone intending to travel in the Sunderland area tonight: don't. Every single road is bumper to bumper traffic - Monkwearmouth, Southwick, Hylton Castle, Boldon, Seaburn...

I saw three Stagecoach 3s running in tandem earlier, and I noted a 56 being 50 minutes late. Driver of the X36 seemed to bail at Southwick; instead of going to Park Lane, he seemingly went straight to the depot.

That explains why I saw 2 Newcastle bound 56 following each other.

Seems the X36 broke down:

Sincere apologies *****, I have just contacted the control room who have advised the service has broken down and will be unable to operate. I'm deeply sorry for the inconvenience and frustration caused.

Not having a good night with all the delays and now the X36 breaking down.

(29 Sep 2015, 5:18 pm)Dan wrote Anyone intending to travel in the Sunderland area tonight: don't. Every single road is bumper to bumper traffic - Monkwearmouth, Southwick, Hylton Castle, Boldon, Seaburn...

I saw three Stagecoach 3s running in tandem earlier, and I noted a 56 being 50 minutes late. Driver of the X36 seemed to bail at Southwick; instead of going to Park Lane, he seemingly went straight to the depot.

In Newcastle the 1's run in 4's

(29 Sep 2015, 7:31 pm)NK53 TKT wrote In Newcastle the 1's run in 4's

Bit of an exaggeration...? I've never seen it running with more than two at once.

(29 Sep 2015, 7:44 pm)northern156 wrote Bit of an exaggeration...? I've never seen it running with more than two at once.

I agree however the 39/40 have ran in sixes once and the 62/3 in threes.

06:09am 82 from Lambton 3 Minutes Early this morning heading towards the galleries.

(12 Oct 2015, 5:17 am)Malarkey wrote 06:09am 82 from Lambton 3 Minutes Early this morning heading towards the galleries.

That bus was only 30 seconds early on Malvern Road, turning onto Cambrian Way just before 06:11am. Granted, this will be of no consolation if you missed the bus, but being 30 seconds early is within the '1 minute early to 5 minutes late' on-time guidelines.

Round the corner, over in Ayton, the bus was two minutes early on Fulmar Drive, though the driver was on-time again by the time he got to the end of Ayton Road.

On the topic:

Do Go North East still use those machines which tell the driver how late/early they are without having to do it manually via their running board? I loved the things.