Does anyone know how the X21 does overall?
Just that I have never seen many passengers on it at all.

(04 May 2015, 8:42 pm)mb134 wrote Did you get the chance to drive 7534? 

Of course I drove it from Washington services to Metrocentre, then 4814 from the services back to Darlington. Managed drives of the 2 Streetlites while at the rally too, only fair that we each get a turn in each other's buses! lol

(05 May 2015, 4:49 pm)Tom wrote Does anyone know how the X21 does overall?
Just that I have never seen many passengers on it at all.

Doing ok I'm told, though the extra peak ones are being withdrawn which probably tells us about the usage of those particular journeys. I know this will enable the PVR at Stockton to drop by one.

(05 May 2015, 4:51 pm)tyresmoke wrote Doing ok I'm told, though the extra peak ones are being withdrawn which probably tells us about the usage of those particular journeys. I know this will enable the PVR at Stockton to drop by one.

Cheers, it's a shame the Triple Ticket isn't advertised more though as I think it would increase usage. 

Speaking of X21's (Ashington one this time), I got off a 7504 that, once I alighted, would have had 3 passengers to take to Newcastle... 

(05 May 2015, 5:03 pm)mb134 wrote Speaking of X21's (Ashington one this time), I got off a 7504 that, once I alighted, would have had 3 passengers to take to Newcastle... 

What time was that?

(05 May 2015, 6:34 pm)tyresmoke wrote What time was that?

Usually around 1-2pm when I see lower passenger numbers on X21 into Newcastle om sundays

(05 May 2015, 6:34 pm)tyresmoke wrote What time was that?

Was going through Bedlington around 5.45 (towards Newcastle).

(Should've pointed out that this was today)

(05 May 2015, 6:40 pm)mb134 wrote Was going through Bedlington around 5.45 (towards Newcastle).

(Should've pointed out that this was today)

Imagine the flow will be out of Newcastle towards Ashington at that time? Likewise in the opposite direction on the morning peak.

You'll find that the majority of services have one-way traffic at peak times.

(05 May 2015, 6:53 pm)Dan wrote Imagine the flow will be out of Newcastle towards Ashington at that time? Likewise in the opposite direction on the morning peak.

You'll find that the majority of services have one-way traffic at peak times.

I understand that, however I recall when I used to get that particular run (and the one earlier),  and it carried more than 3 passengers. If I remember correctly, the lower deck always used to be at least half full, and there were always passengers upstairs as well (when the service was Olympian operated in 2012)

Edit: Just realised that it was never this run that I got, as prior to the service changes last year, this one terminated at Bedlington Red Lion, I always got the one beforehand, which I also saw tonight incidentally but missed by seconds, and that was carrying about 10-15 passengers 

(05 May 2015, 6:55 pm)mb134 wrote I understand that, however I recall when I used to get that particular run (and the one earlier),  and it carried more than 3 passengers. If I remember correctly, the lower deck always used to be at least half full, and there were always passengers upstairs as well (when the service was Olympian operated in 2012)

Perhaps the one in front was late and got the majority of the passengers, then? I obviously don't know - just providing suggestions.

It's unlikely that converting the service to "Sapphire" specification has actually seen a decrease in passenger numbers.  

(05 May 2015, 6:57 pm)Dan wrote Perhaps the one in front was late and got the majority of the passengers, then? I obviously don't know - just providing suggestions.

It's unlikely that converting the service to "Sapphire" specification has actually seen a decrease in passenger numbers.  

No the one in front was on time, had it been late I would have caught it!!

I think, ironically, on certain runs it has (see my edit). 

At the same time, I know that my one in the morning has seen slightly increased usage, I remember I used to have the upstairs to myself when I first used it!

(05 May 2015, 4:50 pm)tyresmoke wrote Of course I drove it from Washington services to Metrocentre, then 4814 from the services back to Darlington. Managed drives of the 2 Streetlites while at the rally too, only fair that we each get a turn in each other's buses! lol

Forgot to reply to this earlier on! 

How was it to drive?  

(05 May 2015, 7:51 pm)mb134 wrote Forgot to reply to this earlier on! 

How was it to drive?  

It was really nice, bit slow taking off due to Econospeed but it was otherwise decent. Very smooth but then you'd expect that with only 900 miles on the clock lol! Was nice to drive an ADL product again, wish we could have had something along the lines of the Perrymans E300 there yesterday for our Sapphires rather than Streetlites.

(05 May 2015, 8:33 pm)tyresmoke wrote It was really nice, bit slow taking off due to Econospeed but it was otherwise decent. Very smooth but then you'd expect that with only 900 miles on the clock lol! Was nice to drive an ADL product again, wish we could have had something along the lines of the Perrymans E300 there yesterday for our Sapphires rather than Streetlites.

Is Econospeed installed on all E400's? 

Not liking the Streetlite's like?

(05 May 2015, 8:36 pm)mb134 wrote Is Econospeed installed on all E400's? 

Not liking the Streetlite's like?

Yes I believe the ADL range were the first to be fitted, followed next by the VDL Pulsars - although we have suffered problems with getting it fitted to those, this is currently being worked on and a re-worked setting tested on a single Pulsar (Stockton's 1458)

I'm not a huge fan of the Streetlites, yes they do the job and cheaply but Sapphire was designed to be a premium brand and I think they've slipped up by buying low quality stock for it. They appear to be very reliable, though, and obviously the micro-hybrid setup produces fuel savings but I just feel they're not fit for purpose on a high spec bus route. The ride quality isn't great and they're very low to the ground, which means if you're in the front half of the bus it feels like you're riding on the road.

(05 May 2015, 8:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes I believe the ADL range were the first to be fitted, followed next by the VDL Pulsars - although we have suffered problems with getting it fitted to those, this is currently being worked on and a re-worked setting tested on a single Pulsar (Stockton's 1458)

I'm not a huge fan of the Streetlites, yes they do the job and cheaply but Sapphire was designed to be a premium brand and I think they've slipped up by buying low quality stock for it. They appear to be very reliable, though, and obviously the micro-hybrid setup produces fuel savings but I just feel they're not fit for purpose on a high spec bus route. The ride quality isn't great and they're very low to the ground, which means if you're in the front half of the bus it feels like you're riding on the road.

Ah okay, wonder if this might have something to do with the timekeeping issues on Ashington's Sapphire route? Although 7529-33 absolutely fly?

This may sound like I'm being a bit picky, but one thing that turns me against the Streetlite is the front wheels, they look very small and the wheel cap looks very cheap indeed. The bus looks more like an elongated mini than it does a full size single decker as well, in my opinion (which to some extent is true is it not?). Think they need to get some B8RLE'S in the future if the one on demonstration is good enough 

Must say though, that the MAX livery does as good a job as I've seen anywhere at making the Streetlite look like a premium vehicle

Why are Arriva fitting Ecnospeed on already fuel efficient vehicles? If it was B9s or N230s for most routes, I'd understand but the ideal environment for the Cummins ISBe is for a setup to give plenty of power and torque across all speed ranges thus reducing stress and labouring on the engine. If setup correctly and maintained correctly, then they're cracking little buses but I can only help notice that Arriva are going a step too far with all this eco nonsense.

(05 May 2015, 8:54 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Why are Arriva fitting Ecnospeed on already fuel efficient vehicles? If it was B9s or N230s for most routes, I'd understand but the ideal environment for the Cummins ISBe is for a setup to give plenty of power and torque across all speed ranges thus reducing stress and labouring on the engine. If setup correctly and maintained correctly, then they're cracking little buses but I can only help notice that Arriva are going  a step too far with all this eco nonsense.

How exactly do they work, taking what I can from Tyresmokes earlier post, does it only affect pulling away? That's the only time I've ever noticed a 14/64 reg Enviro being a tad sluggish, they do fly when they get going 

According to their website, Econospeed can be anything that the customer (ie the operator) wants it to be:-

Econospeed is a dynamic throttle controller that allows a vehicle's maximum road speed, engine speed, and maximum rate of acceleration to be limited by any customer defined criteria.

By electronically restricting the vehicles maximum rate of acceleration and forcing earlier gear changes by limiting maximum revs Econospeed encourages economical and careful driving. It is a fit and forget system with no training or management required.
It simply means that over-revving a vehicle will not be possible but full power will still be available.

EconoSpeed is connected between the accelerator pedal and the Engine Control Unit (ECU). It constantly monitors acceleration demand from the driver, with the throttle pedal, as well as monitoring the engine and road speed of the vehicle via a Controller Area Network (CAN).


When acceleration is at an optimum level, EconoSpeed allows output to the ECU, as much throttle as the driver requests. However, if EconoSpeed detects that acceleration demand is (or is about to become) too high, it restricts acceleration to a pre-determined level. This level is based on the speed the vehicle is travelling at the time.

1406 has lost its X1 "The Best One" branding and looking in rather poor condition

(05 May 2015, 8:59 pm)mb134 wrote How exactly do they work, taking what I can from Tyresmokes earlier post, does it only affect pulling away? That's the only time I've ever noticed a 14/64 reg Enviro being a tad sluggish, they do fly when they get going 

It electronically limits the amount of power you can have which can make things a lot slower pulling away compared to without it. No kickdown either
Pulsars were terrible, and limited to 50mph at first, but we had issues with buses dropping to 10-15mph for no reason so it was removed from use as it was deemed unsafe... a re-worked setting is under testing with 1458 at present.

Redcar's B7TL 7485 has now followed sister 7486 in gaining Civic V3 seats.

Looks like there's been a M-Ticket 2 event at the bottom of Northumberland Street today, with a MAX Gemini in attendance. 

(06 May 2015, 2:49 pm)mb134 wrote Looks like there's been a M-Ticket 2 event at the bottom of Northumberland Street today, with a MAX Gemini in attendance. 

Yes, I walked past - there was a 'mascot' of some sort.

In relation to the passenger numbers on X21/X22 - my usual 0900 X21 from Ashington-Newcastle is very busy by Bedlington heading into Newcastle.

However, a stereotype has been set. From day one, vehicles were breaking down, complaints came streaming through about breakdowns, use of 57-reg buses, the power sockets not working etc. Potential passengers have been put off by the fact that Sapphire E400s are being towed.

In all honest opinion, as a daily user of X21, I've seen passengers giving up on the bus when it fails somewhere and continuing their journey on foot/different service.

People expect and say that Sapphire will get passenger numbers on the X21/X22, because of the likes of the 7.

If Arriva bought an entirely new fleet of Enviro400s for the X21/X22, I don't think that I'll be sat here typing this, but commending Arriva on their investment.

(06 May 2015, 3:19 pm)G-CPTN wrote Yes, I walked past - there was a 'mascot' of some sort.

Looks like there's Ashington drivers there, the one in the photo is wearing a Sapphire tie.

(06 May 2015, 3:52 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote In relation to the passenger numbers on X21/X22 - my usual 0900 X21 from Ashington-Newcastle is very busy by Bedlington heading into Newcastle.

However, a stereotype has been set. From day one, vehicles were breaking down, complaints came streaming through about breakdowns, use of 57-reg buses, the power sockets not working etc. Potential passengers have been put off by the fact that Sapphire E400s are being towed.

In all honest opinion, as a daily user of X21, I've seen passengers giving up on the bus when it fails somewhere and continuing their journey on foot/different service.

People expect and say that Sapphire will get passenger numbers on the X21/X22, because of the likes of the 7.

If Arriva bought an entirely new fleet of Enviro400s for the X21/X22, I don't think that I'll be sat here typing this, but commending Arriva on their investment.

Would agree with this point here, I think it was 7504(?) that wasn't in service for ages after Sapphire was launched, and as one other (saw lot's of complaints regarding 7501 on the ANE Facebook Page) was seemingly out of service on a daily basis, standard specification buses were used seemingly daily during the first month of operation. 

Indeed, I was in Bedlington quite a bit last summer so saw what was being used, as a result of being there I used the service frequently as well, and on one journey one of 7511-3 turned up, with passengers asking  where  the "nice" buses were...


However, as has been stated previously, us talking about it on here isn't going to help, so until someone at Arriva figures it out, people will just have to deal with it unfortunately 

(06 May 2015, 4:07 pm)mb134 wrote However, as has been stated previously, us talking about it on here isn't going to help, so until someone at Arriva figures it out, people will just have to deal with it unfortunately 

Its not like me to say things like this, but here goes, the damage has been done, buying new buses to replace the 57-reg E400s wont bring passengers back. A stereotype has been set, members of my family used to use the X31/X32/X33 and X21/X22 very frequently, but due to the reliability of the service they dont bother and just use their cars and catch the Metro into Newcastle from a P&R site.

The service is not well advertised, the only advertisement that I have seen is free tickets through the door, even people redeem them on a X21/X22 bus then get off and use the X20.

Some members of my family received free tickets, but just passed them down to me or their friends as they've gave up with the service.

(06 May 2015, 3:52 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote In relation to the passenger numbers on X21/X22 - my usual 0900 X21 from Ashington-Newcastle is very busy by Bedlington heading into Newcastle.

However, a stereotype has been set. From day one, vehicles were breaking down, complaints came streaming through about breakdowns, use of 57-reg buses, the power sockets not working etc. Potential passengers have been put off by the fact that Sapphire E400s are being towed.

In all honest opinion, as a daily user of X21, I've seen passengers giving up on the bus when it fails somewhere and continuing their journey on foot/different service.

People expect and say that Sapphire will get passenger numbers on the X21/X22, because of the likes of the 7.

If Arriva bought an entirely new fleet of Enviro400s for the X21/X22, I don't think that I'll be sat here typing this, but commending Arriva on their investment.

I think the problem with the X21 is this:

- Lack of suitable vehicles (e.g 7501 - 7509)
- De-Tour via Neddderton adding time onto the journey.
- Far more incentive to either get a 35 to North Seaton then jump on the X20 straight to Newcastle if living in Newbiggin.
- X20 can complete the journey from Ashington to Newcastle much quicker.
- X22 is more reliable and faster on the section between Bedlington and Newcastle improving punctuality and reliability.
- Too much focus on 'eco nonsense' rather than setting up the vehicles to ensure enough power is maintained for all speeds. 
- Small number of drivers making no safe or legal effort to keep as close to time as possible.
- Lack of consistency.


Arriva need to do the following:
- Get rid of 7501 - 7509 and buy new buses (either more ADL E400s setup correctly with no ecnospeed or alternatively, Scania N230UD E400s with ecnospeed and setup for economy and efficiency).
- Either re-route the X21 via the X22 route between Bedlington and Newcastle (making the combined frequency every 9-11 minutes from Ashington and between Bedlington and Newcastle with small timing adjustments on both services) with another route serving Nedderton OR, bring back the X31 / X32 under the Sapphire brand with 11x ADL E400s and X33 under MAX brand with 5 VDL Pulsars.
- Enforce high standards of driving ensuring that all drivers drive safely and as quickly as possible according to the road, traffic and weather conditions.