(06 May 2015, 4:31 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Its not like me to say things like this, but here goes, the damage has been done, buying new buses to replace the 57-reg E400s wont bring passengers back. A stereotype has been set, members of my family used to use the X31/X32/X33 and X21/X22 very frequently, but due to the reliability of the service they dont bother and just use their cars and catch the Metro into Newcastle from a P&R site.

The service is not well advertised, the only advertisement that I have seen is free tickets through the door, even people redeem them on a X21/X22 bus then get off and use the X20.

Some members of my family received free tickets, but just passed them down to me or their friends as they've gave up with the service.

In my opinion, covering old ground here but, they would have been far better off using 7514-21, if they didn't want to buy new vehicles. 

I know, for example, that as soon as I pass my driving test and save enough for a car, I won't be using the service. Though that may seem obvious, prior to this academic year, I liked getting the bus to school, added an element of adventure, now it's adding an element of wondering when I'm going to get there.

The only time I get excited now is if an Omnicity is going to turn up, or if I get one of the two (7523/4) that actually have all the promised features working. 

(06 May 2015, 4:40 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I think the problem with the X21 is this:

- Lack of suitable vehicles (e.g 7501 - 7509)
- De-Tour via Neddderton adding time onto the journey.
- Far more incentive to either get a 35 to North Seaton then jump on the X20 straight to Newcastle if living in Newbiggin.
- X20 can complete the journey from Ashington to Newcastle much quicker.
- X22 is more reliable and faster on the section between Bedlington and Newcastle improving punctuality and reliability.
- Too much focus on 'eco nonsense' rather than setting up the vehicles to ensure enough power is maintained for all speeds. 
- Small number of drivers making no safe or legal effort to keep as close to time as possible.
- Lack of consistency.


Arriva need to do the following:
- Get rid of 7501 - 7509 and buy new buses (either more ADL E400s setup correctly with no ecnospeed or alternatively, Scania N230UD E400s with ecnospeed and setup for economy and efficiency).
- Either re-route the X21 via the X22 route between Bedlington and Newcastle (making the combined frequency every 9-11 minutes from Ashington and between Bedlington and Newcastle with small timing adjustments on both services) with another route serving Nedderton OR, bring back the X31 / X32 under the Sapphire brand with 11x ADL E400s and X33 under MAX brand with 5 VDL Pulsars.
- Enforce high standards of driving ensuring that all drivers drive safely and as quickly as possible according to the road, traffic and weather conditions.

I would just bin 7501-7509. I'd get rid of the EcoNOspeed system rubbish from all buses. Buy new buses.

OR I'd leave it as it is and let the X21/X22 die a death.

7501-7509 are not useless. They still have a few years left in them even if they aren't the most reliable vehicles in the world. Every bus breaks down, some more than others. Its something which passengers need to understand and because a bus breaks down, it is immediately the companies fault...i cant remember a standard arriva vehicle being allocated to the service for ages now so something must have improved...

One thing I would point out is that, for the services to become Sapphire, they would have had to be making a good amount of money for Arriva.

Therefore, I'm inclined to suggest that, although we look at it and it may appear bad, it does better than we think. Every peak time run I see is full, and quite a few others do carry good loads.

I also want to point out that, in the past 4 years, the bus on my morning and home time run has NEVER broken down.

(06 May 2015, 4:41 pm)mb134 wrote In my opinion, covering old ground here but, they would have been far better off using 7514-21, if they didn't want to buy new vehicles. 

I know, for example, that as soon as I pass my driving test and save enough for a car, I won't be using the service. Though that may seem obvious, prior to this academic year, I liked getting the bus to school, added an element of adventure, now it's adding an element of wondering when I'm going to get there.

The only time I get excited now is if an Omnicity is going to turn up, or if I get one of the two (7523/4) that actually have all the promised features working. 

I would have done the following to work around refurb and new buses on X21/X22 

• Refurbish 7514-21 for Sapphire work, buy 9 new buses.
  
• Refurbish 7501-7507 standard Arriva spec for 35/35A/100, cancel StreetLites.
  
• 7 new buses for X14/X15
  
• 5 new buses for X18
  
• Remaining E400s would displace the ALX400s
  

(06 May 2015, 4:47 pm)Robert wrote 7501-7509 are not useless. They still have a few years left in them even if they aren't the most reliable vehicles in the world. Every bus breaks down, some more than others. Its something which passengers need to understand and because a bus breaks down, it is immediately the companies fault...i cant remember a standard arriva vehicle being allocated to the service for ages now so something must have improved...

7519 was allocated on Friday - 7515 appeared too last week. 

And were these covering for 57 reg examples? I would also leave them right where they are. Can't see arriva spending all that money converting a bus to Sapphire just to convert it back to standard arriva spec.

(06 May 2015, 4:56 pm)Robert wrote And were these covering for 57 reg examples? I would also leave them right where they are. Can't see arriva spending all that money converting a bus to Sapphire just to convert it back to standard arriva spec.

How would I know? I dont allocate the things.

That was a suggestion based on before they refurbished vehicles. Clearly too late now?!

Exactly. You don't know. How can you blame the unreliability of the services all on the 57 reg enviros (which is essentially what you're all doing). The 14 reg examples can break down too. We all know the X93 killed the E400s but still...if we don't actually know what the problem is, we technically don't have an argument. As for time keeping issues, thats a different matter.

(06 May 2015, 5:04 pm)Robert wrote Exactly. You don't know. How can you blame the unreliability of the services all on the 57 reg enviros (which is essentially what you're all doing). The 14 reg examples can break down too. We all know the X93 killed the E400s but still...if we don't actually know what the problem is, we technically don't have an argument. As for time keeping issues, thats a different matter.

I'm blaming it on the 57 reg examples because of the fact that, every time my morning bus is more than 4/5 minutes late it is one of 7501-9, I've known of one broken down 14-reg example since the launch (obviously there will have been more, but in my experience), I've seen (and heard) of many more broken 57 plates. 

Buy new this... get rid of Econospeed that... etc, etc.

Only a small number of people on this forum seem to understand how a business works. If some of you were left to it, you would bankrupt a company within weeks buying new buses.

You cant just buy new buses for the sake of it. Services need to be able to justify new vehicles, which means that they probably need to proove that expenditure from a central directorship will deliver a good profit on investment. If someone from Arriva approaches the central team and asks for new buses, they likely need to show how the new buses will grow revenue to justify the initial cost, otherwise it will be refused.

It is highly likely that he X21/X22 couldnt justify a full fleet of brand new vehicles, so only part were bought new, the rest would have been a smaller upgrade budget.

Also, the single biggest cost in a bus company is fuel. Any % saving, even 1% is likely to be a huge amount of money. This is why bus companies go for fuel efficiency and fit these devices. No matter how much we sulk, its the way forward.

Whilst people may think that Arriva (or any other operator for that matter) have no clue, we actually have no clue as to what is happening behind closed doors.

(06 May 2015, 5:16 pm)RobinHood wrote Buy new this... get rid of Econospeed that... etc, etc.

Only a small number of people on this forum seem to understand how a business works. If some of you were left to it, you would bankrupt a company within weeks buying new buses.

You cant just buy new buses for the sake of it. Services need to be able to justify new vehicles, which means that they probably need to proove that expenditure from a central directorship will deliver a good profit on investment. If someone from Arriva approaches the central team and asks for new buses, they likely need to show how the new buses will grow revenue to justify the initial cost, otherwise it will be refused.

It is highly likely that he X21/X22 couldnt justify a full fleet of brand new vehicles, so only part were bought new, the rest would have been a smaller upgrade budget.

Also, the single biggest cost in a bus company is fuel. Any % saving, even 1% is likely to be a huge amount of money. This is why bus companies go for fuel efficiency and fit these devices. No matter how much we sulk, its the way forward.

Whilst people may think that Arriva (or any other operator for that matter) have no clue, we actually have no clue as to what is happening behind closed doors.

Thank you! 

Although I have a problem with the vehicles, and don't understand why they were chosen over others, I fully understand why it may not have been possible to buy a whole new fleet! 

I also agree with the Econospeed statement, as I've stated in a post yesterday some vehicles that have it fly, so I don't see how it can be that much different on others (obviously there will be some differences). 

(06 May 2015, 5:04 pm)Robert wrote Exactly. You don't know. How can you blame the unreliability of the services all on the 57 reg enviros (which is essentially what you're all doing). The 14 reg examples can break down too. We all know the X93 killed the E400s but still...if we don't actually know what the problem is, we technically don't have an argument. As for time keeping issues, thats a different matter.

Do you rely on the X21 service? No.

I found out that a taxi was the way forward this morning, couldn't be bothered to wait 5+ minutes at a cold bus stop as I checked the map for my bus.

(06 May 2015, 5:20 pm)mb134 wrote I also agree with the Econospeed statement, as I've stated in a post yesterday some vehicles that have it fly, so I don't see how it can be that much different on others (obviously there will be some differences). 

Which ones? A few of them don't have Econospeed enabled on them at the moment.

(06 May 2015, 5:25 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Do you rely on the X21 service? No.

I found out that a taxi was the way forward this morning, couldn't be bothered to wait 5+ minutes at a cold bus stop as I checked the map for my bus.

Compared to the fares offered on a bus, would this be a viable solution for the majority of people? 

I know I couldn't afford that every day!

(06 May 2015, 5:26 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Which ones? A few of them don't have Econospeed enabled on them at the moment.

7522-33, 7517 (not sure if that has it), a couple of others as well from the 09 batch, and maybe 7513 (can't remember if I'm honest, it was either brilliant or rubbish, was that long ago)

(and I imagine if 7522-33 are fine, 7534-40 will be)

What has relying on a bus service got to do with it? If you're going there though, i have to rely on service 825. It's hardly ever late and hardly ever breaks down and thats with it using vehicles a lot older than the 57 reg enviros. It unlikely that anybody is lucky enough to be on a service that breaks down more than once in a week.

(06 May 2015, 5:30 pm)Robert wrote What has relying on a bus service got to do with it? If you're going there though, i have to rely on service 825. It's hardly ever late and hardly ever breaks down and thats with it using vehicles a lot older than the 57 reg enviros. It unlikely that anybody is lucky enough to be on a service that breaks down more than once in a week.

Because if you use a service daily you can see the problems first hand...?

That could be it but i still think its not right that people are blaming the reliability issues on the services purely down to the 57 reg Enviros.

(06 May 2015, 5:34 pm)Robert wrote That could be it but i still think its not right that people are blaming the reliability issues on the services purely down to the 57 reg Enviros.

I agree with you too. I think it's more timekeeping issues, although the 57 reg Enviros are terrible.

If there's going to be oodles of brand new buses for very very cheap () please send them to Jesmond, cut out Throckley and the entrance to Corbridge (AFAIK the only thing restricting deckers on 85 except 185) and use them replacing 4660-4 on 85/685s.

(06 May 2015, 5:25 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote I found out that a taxi was the way forward this morning, couldn't be bothered to wait 5+ minutes at a cold bus stop as I checked the map for my bus.

Gosh! 5 minutes... for a bus?!?! :O
I can't comprehend that, really can't. You'd be waiting longer for a bloody taxi to arrive!!!

(06 May 2015, 5:34 pm)Robert wrote That could be it but i still think its not right that people are blaming the reliability issues on the services purely down to the 57 reg Enviros.

It's definitely not only down to them, I'll say that, there definitely are other factors. 

However, something about them, be it reliability, drivers not wanting (or not being able) to push them, or a combination, makes them a pretty big one. 

(When I say "not wanting to" I mean more incase anything goes wrong, not because they can't be bothered, although that could apply to some)

There will be other major factors as well, for example as most of my journeys occur prior to it reaching Ashington, it has hardly any slack in the timetable compared to the Newbiggin to Ashington section. 

(06 May 2015, 5:35 pm)northern156 wrote Gosh! 5 minutes... for a bus?!?! :O
I can't comprehend that, really can't. You'd be waiting longer for a bloody taxi to arrive!!!

Bet a five minute wait is a luxury for you out in the sticks..!  

(06 May 2015, 5:41 pm)Dan wrote Bet a five minute wait is a luxury for you out in the sticks..!  

I'd say 15 minutes is the 'expected'!

(06 May 2015, 5:53 pm)northern156 wrote I'd say 15 minutes is the 'expected'!

And 15 hours for the Metro!!

(06 May 2015, 5:53 pm)northern156 wrote I'd say 15 minutes is the 'expected'!

Jammy so and so :p
Try living in the urban sprawl of T&W and having to rely on the 4. 15 minutes sounds like a dream!

(06 May 2015, 5:55 pm)Andreos1 wrote Jammy so and so :p
Try living in the urban sprawl of T&W and having to rely on the 4. 15 minutes sounds like a dream!

Think you and your mates must just be rather unlucky...

Of the seven buses out on the 4 service at the moment, the maximum delay is three minutes late (ie within the one minute early to five minutes late guideline as 'on-time'.) The biggest problem right now is one bus running two minutes early!

(06 May 2015, 5:59 pm)Dan wrote Think you and your mates must just be rather unlucky...

Of the seven buses out on the 4 service at the moment, the maximum delay is three minutes late (ie within the one minute early to five minutes late guideline as 'on-time'.) The biggest problem right now is one bus running two minutes early!

You should check the 17 sometime!
One bus you'll see will be running four minutes early, the other 25 minutes late.

(06 May 2015, 6:01 pm)Tom wrote You should check the 17 sometime!
One bus you'll see will be running four minutes early, the other 25 minutes late.

I did last time you were complaining about it, and only one bus was outside of the 1 minute early to 5 minutes late guideline (of the ten or so allocated).

(06 May 2015, 6:03 pm)Dan wrote I did last time you were complaining about it, and only one bus was outside of the 1 minute early to 5 minutes late guideline (of the ten or so allocated).

Quite surprised! It's possibly the most unreliable service Percy Main operate.
The rest are fantastic, especially the Coaster considering the length of the route, and before the Middle Engine Lane works the Cobalt Clippers were fantastic compared to Arriva's 308.