What would happen if GNE kept loyal to Wrights and bought Streetdecks and they ended up with loads of problems but weren't even three year old?

(18 Jul 2015, 7:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote What would happen if GNE kept loyal to Wrights and bought Streetdecks and they ended up with loads of problems but weren't even three year old?

We will cross that bridge if/when we come to it...

(18 Jul 2015, 7:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote What would happen if GNE kept loyal to Wrights and bought Streetdecks and they ended up with loads of problems but weren't even three year old?

I'd hope lessons were learnt from the order Tridents back in 2000. They clearly weren't fit for purpose at the time, but when they were starting to become goosed after 5 or 6 years in service, GNE were still stuck with them for another 10 years. They used to be on the 50 quite regularly circa. 2006, and they could barely manage the hills on the route then.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote What would happen if GNE kept loyal to Wrights and bought Streetdecks and they ended up with loads of problems but weren't even three year old?

The man that makes the final decision on orders needs to be sacked.......................Simple  
The man bought Streetshites then he buys Streetdecks and all hell brakes loss in 3 years time cuase the curse of the Streetshite came upon us

SORRY FOR TELLING A LITTLE NURSERY STRORY THERE.

All in all, I agree with most people here by thinking that the StreetDeck is no where near as good as the Enviro 400. The Streetdeck was not very fast on the highway and I was suprised when I went on it today it shocked me at the speed, whereas the Enviro was much faster and more enjoyable all in all. I heard a few people saying when the entered the Enviro that they loved the tables and that it was such a clever idea and I somewhat agree. The rattle free ride made it much more enjoyable than an Omnicity for example and with the comfy leather seats it was just perfect, best bus I've ever been on from Go North East for a reason. This with wifi, tables and sockets would be just like a train and would make me want to ride it every day!

Why have Volvo chosen to use a 5 litre engine as opposed to a 9 litre like ADL? They're losing customer (the bus operators) interest right there when it comes to long distance routes - i'd chose the bigger engine any day of the week.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:20 pm)S813 FVK wrote Why have Volvo chosen to use a 5 litre engine as opposed to a 9 litre like ADL? They're losing customer (the bus operators) interest right there when it comes to long distance routes - i'd chose the bigger engine any day of the week.

ADL is not a 9-litre - it is a 6.7 litre if I recall correctly. Scania (on ADL bodywork) is the only manufacturer offering a 9-litre.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:20 pm)S813 FVK wrote Why have Volvo chosen to use a 5 litre engine as opposed to a 9 litre like ADL? They're losing customer (the bus operators) interest right there when it comes to long distance routes - i'd chose the bigger engine any day of the week.

ADL do not make engines.

The Enviro has a Cummins 6.7 litre and Scania do a 9 litre.

As for your question...pass!

(18 Jul 2015, 7:20 pm)S813 FVK wrote Why have Volvo chosen to use a 5 litre engine as opposed to a 9 litre like ADL? They're losing customer (the bus operators) interest right there when it comes to long distance routes - i'd chose the bigger engine any day of the week.

I was devastated when they chose 5 litres for Euro 6 as im always a big fan of Volvo Products.  B8TL would have been good then GNE wouldn't have to waste there time getting the Streetdeck in, Just order the B8 which would have had a 8 litre engine.

The E400 has a 6.7 litre Cummins Engine in it , The 9 litre engine is in the Scania E400

EDIT SORRY DAN AND CITARO FOR WRITING EXACTLY THE SAME, IT TOOK ME 5 MINS TO WRITE THIS FOR SOME REASON AND SO I DIDNT SEE YOUR COMMENTS  

(18 Jul 2015, 7:21 pm)Dan wrote ADL is not a 9-litre - it is a 6.7 litre if I recall correctly. Scania (on ADL bodywork) is the only manufacturer offering a 9-litre.

Ah. Blame citaro for my confusion! Just remember him posting something about a 9 litre engine.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:29 pm)S813 FVK wrote Ah. Blame citaro for my confusion! Just remember him posting something about a 9 litre engine.

No worries - 'blame citaro' is what I usually do when all else fails...

The reason Volvo went with a 5 litre rather than an 8 litre for Euro 6 was the following:

- A bigger engine would make the bus too heavy for London. Euro 6 engines are heavier and more advanced.

- Operators like First and Arriva wanted more fuel efficient vehicles particularly the former who weren't willing to pay the expensive fuel costs for a B9TL and switched to ADL.

If GNE were to order this vehicle and it went wrong, the only possible route that I could see the Streetdeck handling would be the 310 (not the 309)

The e400mmc is a 6.7 litre Cummins unit

The StreetDecker is a 5.1 litre Merc/Daimler unit

Therefore the streetdecker has to be pushed much harder than the E400 therefore the engine would wear out much faster.

Would flogging a small engine be more economical than cruising with a big engine, I doubt it. And in the long term the e400mmc would surely more financially viable

(18 Jul 2015, 7:29 pm)S813 FVK wrote Ah. Blame citaro for my confusion! Just remember him posting something about a 9 litre engine.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:30 pm)Dan wrote No worries - 'blame citaro' is what I usually do when all else fails...

Dont blame me for your incompetence you's 2........

(18 Jul 2015, 7:32 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote The reason Volvo went with a 5 litre rather than an 8 litre for Euro 6 was the following:

- A bigger engine would make the bus too heavy for London. Euro 6 engines are heavier and more advanced.

- Operators like First and Arriva wanted more fuel efficient vehicles particularly the former who weren't willing to pay the expensive fuel costs for a B9TL and switched to ADL.

If GNE were to order this vehicle and it went wrong, the only possible route that I could see the Streetdeck handling would be the 310 (not the 309)

The StreetDecker would be ideal for city work, not good for long distance work like the X21.

In an ideal world you would get the scania 9ltr e400 for the X21.

But if 100 people had to choose between the demos I'd bet 99percent would go for the E400.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:37 pm)pdiddy wrote The StreetDecker would be ideal for city work, not good for long distance work like the X21.

In an ideal world you would get the scania 9ltr e400 for the X21.

But if 100 people had to choose between the demos I'd bet 99percent would go for the E400.

I would have thought the mpg for the Scania would be a lot lower than the 6.7 litre Cummins variant, which over the course of a bus life would put a lot of extra cost onto the vehicle with the amount of fuel it would use extra compared to the Cummins.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:33 pm)pdiddy wrote The e400mmc  is a 6.7 litre Cummins unit

The StreetDecker is a 5.1 litre Merc/Daimler unit

Therefore the streetdecker has to be pushed much harder than the E400 therefore the engine would wear out much faster.

Would flogging a small engine be more economical than  cruising with a big engine, I doubt it. And in the long term the e400mmc would surely more financially viable

It's not that simple.

You would have to look at the torque and the gearing (including the number of ratios) to compare performance.
Similar calculations for fuel consumption.

As long as a vehicle has the 'power' to meet the schedules it doesn't need extra - though it is useful to have some in reserve for delays and performance fall-off between services/repairs.

A more powerful engine needn't mean greater fuel consumption.

(18 Jul 2015, 7:43 pm)G-CPTN wrote It's not that simple.

You would have to look at the torque and the gearing (including the number of ratios) to compare performance.
Similar calculations for fuel consumption.

As long as a vehicle has the 'power' to meet the schedules it doesn't need extra - though it is useful to have some in reserve for delays and performance fall-off between services/repairs.

A more powerful engine needn't mean greater fuel consumption.

I disagree. The engine isn't going to have that level of performance over it's lifespan, and will lose power each year. So if it's struggling as new, then it's likely to run into real difficulties in a couple of years. Asking an engine to do something that it wasn't designed for, and you might as well be smashing your head against a brick wall.

Close to getting myself papped today. Good job it went past a few seconds earlier! https://www.flickr.com/photos/bazza90/19186164293/

I walked out of the interchange building when 9119 was sitting at the lights just after the mini-roundabout with 6007 behind it.

I would compare the Streetdeck to the VDL Gemini DL.....

With the Streetdeck only having a 5.1 Litre Daimler with a 4 speed Voith the bus will need a very big turbo to get enough power to move a Double Deck same as the Gemini 2DL and once the massive turbo tires out, You end up with a blown,gutless wreck that can barely go 20mph.

The E400 having a 6.7 Litre Cummins with a 6 speed ZF Ecolife will need a relatively smaller Turbo compared to the Daimler to get it moving. But will take a lot longer to run out due to having a bigger engine and a bigger gearbox with smaller RPMs which results in a longer life.

On Fuel Consumption, Operators are getting deceived by the Streetdeck, With its claimed lower fuel consumption and quicker gear changes.
If GNE buy Streetdecks for the X21, By 3 to 4 years there turbo will have completely gone like most VDL Geminis which results in higher revs and higher RPMs which added to losing Horsepower will result in the bus being only fit for Alphas.
So put it this way, In 4 years and if GNE bought Streetdecks there fuel consumption and MPGs will be higher than the Volvo B9TLs which are 1-5 years older than them
and have a engine nearly twice the size of the Streetdecks.
They could also be withdrawn before the B9s aswell if no new laws come in place in 10 years time.

(18 Jul 2015, 8:01 pm)S813 FVK wrote Close to getting myself papped today. Good job it went past a few seconds earlier! https://www.flickr.com/photos/bazza90/19186164293/

I walked out of the interchange building when 9119 was sitting at the lights just after the mini-roundabout with 6007 behind it.

didn't realise you was there on another note 8315 is now branded although it was a rear shot i will be getting shots of the full set not this Thursday but next photo for evidence https://www.flickr.com/photos/bazza90/19...ed-public/

Looking over the technical specifications doesn't suggest that there would be much difference between 'performance'.
Power and torque are within 10% (with the benefit being cancelled by the transmission efficiency).
One has an angle-drive and the other an in-line drive and automated manual gearbox and both seem to be similar unladen weights (as far as I can tell). 

http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/daimler-...-growth/2/

http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/operators-bus/

I'd like to see comparative acceleration figures (as well as fuel consumption) - that will be what the engineers, the managers and the accountants will be studying.

(18 Jul 2015, 8:02 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote I would compare the Streetdeck to the VDL Gemini DL.....

With the Streetdeck only having a 5.1 Litre Daimler with a 4 speed Voith the bus will need a very big turbo to get enough power to move a Double Deck same as the Gemini 2DL and once the massive turbo tires out, You end up with a blown,gutless wreck that can barely go 20mph.

The E400 having a 6.7 Litre Cummins with a 6 speed ZF Ecolife will need a relatively smaller Turbo compared to the Daimler to get it moving. But will take a lot longer to run out due to having a bigger engine and a bigger gearbox with smaller RPMs which results in a longer life.

The difference in performance (and fuel consumption) might just be due to the 4-speed Voith versus the six-speed ZF gearbox.

Think of riding a bicycle with fewer gears . . . (or, perhaps the converse - having more gear ratios available . . . )

much prefer a Enviro 400 it felt smooth as anything although the Streetdeck is a nice vehicle i can see these being a future order knowing GNE they may order it a possible suggestion X21 and of course 27 would love to see a Streetdeck in Hebburn it does get packed on a morning and late rush even during the day but i think also 20/20A/X20 and the night bus N20 could do with deckers

(18 Jul 2015, 8:43 pm)Diamond One wrote much prefer a Enviro 400 it felt smooth as anything although the Streetdeck is a nice vehicle i can see these being a future order knowing GNE they may order it a possible suggestion X21 and of course 27 would love to see a Streetdeck in Hebburn it does get packed on a morning and late rush even during the day but i think also 20/20A/X20 and the night bus N20 could do with deckers

The N20 already has deckers. It interworks with the N21 using the angel hybrids.

(18 Jul 2015, 12:49 pm)S813 FVK wrote Apparently it has been confirmed that the X21 will be rebranded 'Angel' when they get new buses...
The crap some enthusiasts can come out with is absolutely ridiculous.

Using Chester-le-Street OmniDekkas too... 

(19 Jul 2015, 8:37 am)GX03 SVC wrote Using Chester-le-Street OmniDekkas too... 

Or the B9s off the X1...

Wanna bet after the demo buses are finished with and if GNE decide to buy new buses for the X21, they'll go for the Streetdeck... although everyone seems to like the E400 more.......

Cost will as ever play a massive part in amy order......streetlites v citaro springs to mind and streetlite rattles v scania rattles.....not much difference already!!!

(19 Jul 2015, 9:53 am)Michael wrote Wanna bet after the demo buses are finished with and if GNE decide to buy new buses for the X21, they'll go for the Streetdeck... although everyone seems to like the E400 more.......

knowing them they probs would although that E400 is a canny ride would love to see that but one route that will more than likely to get it is X21 other routes that probs need them would be 27 it does get busy on that route alot