(14 Sep 2015, 5:57 pm)aureolin wrote Where do you draw the line though? 

I think a corporate liveried vehicle is the better solution when a MAX spec vehicle is unavailable. The alternative would be to have a large pool of MAX spec vehicles spare, but then we'd have the problem of MAX spec vehicles on non-MAX spec routes, as they'll not let the buses sit and fester in the depot all day...

I also feel that this is a problem you get, when you start pushing features like WiFi and e-Leather seating as a 'luxury' or 'feature' of the service. WiFi should be standard on all new orders, with an attempt to retrospectively fit it to older vehicles in the fleet, if there's a business justification to do so. I've made my feelings on eLeather more than known in the past too...


Maybe we need velcro spec seats?

Perhaps I'm missing something, but there seems to be a discrepancy across eLeather seating, and I know I'm not the only enthusiast to notice this. The Sapphire spec provides the most comfortable example of eLeather in the North East in my opinion. I find MAX spec to be a bit too firm and slippy, and I find the ones in GNE's Sapphire to be like sitting on a wooden bench. It's got me a bit baffled to be honest, as I thought it was all exactly the same!

Belmont seem to have loads of Sapphire buses which are spare going round on different routes such as 1517 on the 46/48 on Saturday whilst this was on here two non Sapphire spec buses ended up out on the 22/24. Ideally there should be corporate liveried buses that have the same features as MAX and Sapphire buses so they can be used on different routes when they aren't required to fill in on a branded route such as the X12, doesn't help that each service has to require log in details and you have to register for every different service, even under the same brand.

(14 Sep 2015, 6:02 pm)aureolin wrote Sorted. 

Mind, I agree, try sitting on them for 4 or 5 hours - bloody painful is not the word.

(14 Sep 2015, 5:57 pm)aureolin wrote Perhaps I'm missing something, but there seems to be a discrepancy across eLeather seating, and I know I'm not the only enthusiast to notice this. The Sapphire spec provides the most comfortable example of eLeather in the North East in my opinion. I find MAX spec to be a bit too firm and slippy, and I find the ones in GNE's Streetlites to be like sitting on a wooden bench. It's got me a bit baffled to be honest, as I thought it was all exactly the same!

I agree with you on the Sapphire and GNE e-leather. The Sapphire type is the most comfortable and soft type (and was even when brand new) compared to the solid feel of the GNE one. However, I find MAX just as comfortable as the Sapphire ones. Haven't been on enough standard Arriva specification vehicles to know how well the e-leather is on those Streetlites.

(14 Sep 2015, 5:57 pm)aureolin wrote Perhaps I'm missing something, but there seems to be a discrepancy across eLeather seating, and I know I'm not the only enthusiast to notice this. The Sapphire spec provides the most comfortable example of eLeather in the North East in my opinion. I find MAX spec to be a bit too firm and slippy, and I find the ones in GNE's Streetlites to be like sitting on a wooden bench. It's got me a bit baffled to be honest, as I thought it was all exactly the same!

I've had this conversation with Marcus, and I still don't understand how some enthusiasts think that there's differences between e-leather seating on the same type of seats. When I had the conversation with Marcus, I honestly thought his judgement had been swayed by the colour of the seats, as the Sapphire colour-scheme is a lot more appealing than the darker colour-scheme of Go North East's Streetlites (they say the packaging of food can often sway opinion on the taste).

I think there's a tiny bit more padding on Civic V3 seats than Civic V2 seats (in addition to the headrests), which is why the seats in Sapphire vehicles are marginally more comfortable than those in the 'eco-green' livery for example. Go North East's e-leather seats are Civic V3 too though, and they feel exactly the same as Arriva's Sapphire seats to me.

If there is a difference, all I could put it down to is the fact that Go North East's vehicles are newer and the Sapphire ones aren't as firm given that they've been used more. When I compared the two when new, it did seem that Go North East's had more padding, and I think I noted this on the forum at the time.

Obviously it's an entirely different ball game when you throw different seating types into the mix: the e-leather seating on the ADL Enviro400MMC demonstrator (recently used on Go North East's X21 service) was incredibly comfortable.

Personally, the most comfiest e-leather seat I've been on is on the MAX X14 Omni's, about three hours and it felt like I was sat on a bed with headrests. The '57 X15 E400s aren't far behind.

There is a difference in the '57 and '14 Sapphire E400s though. The older, has firmer seats, not nice if traveling beyond Bedlington from Newcastle. The newer buses have softer seats, even on the first day of service, they're much better now (love the downstairs rear seats!).

The MAX X10/X11 Gemini seats are OK, not far behind '57 Sapphires, the MAX X12s were ok too.

The MAX X18 E400s are also nice to sit on, but e-leather on a long journey like this is not recommended.

(14 Sep 2015, 5:57 pm)aureolin wrote Perhaps I'm missing something, but there seems to be a discrepancy across eLeather seating, and I know I'm not the only enthusiast to notice this. The Sapphire spec provides the most comfortable example of eLeather in the North East in my opinion. I find MAX spec to be a bit too firm and slippy, and I find the ones in GNE's Streetlites to be like sitting on a wooden bench. It's got me a bit baffled to be honest, as I thought it was all exactly the same!

Yep, the Sapphire seating is nice and, if I'm not mistaken, the seating on the GNE Mauve Indigo Solos is the same. The Max seating isn't as nicely moulded, is a bit harder, and some of the headrests are already coming apart.

Moderation note: I've split the above posts into this new thread, as it's a frequently debated topic across the multiple operator threads on this forum, yet not really specific to an individual operator.

(14 Sep 2015, 6:49 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Yep, the Sapphire seating is nice and, if I'm not mistaken, the seating on the GNE Mauve Indigo Solos is the same. The Max seating isn't as nicely moulded, is a bit harder, and some of the headrests are already coming apart.

I have noticed the plastic base on the Streetlites doing the same.

The worst seats are on 4661...

I could say what my least favourite seats are but let us not go there again!

The actual most uncomfortable seats I've ever encounted was one of the Dart's Arriva acquired when they took over the Stagecoach Darlington operations, the whole seat was plastic, it was actually painful, thankfully I was only subjected to it once on a short journey.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:22 pm)Jimmi wrote I could say what my least favourite seats are but let us not go there again!

The actual most uncomfortable seats I've ever encounted was one of the Dart's Arriva acquired when they took over the Stagecoach Darlington operations, the whole seat was plastic, it was actually painful, thankfully I was only subjected to it once on a short journey.

Go North East's ex-London Presidents had plastics seats at the back upstairs I had to suffer sitting on these.

Who's fabric is on 1799's seats? It looks strange, just like what an independent company would have.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:24 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Who's fabric is on 1799's seats? It looks strange, just like what an independent company would have.

Maybe because it did come from an independent company? 
https://flic.kr/p/auwCPa

(14 Sep 2015, 7:24 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Who's fabric is on 1799's seats? It looks strange, just like what an independent company would have.

Think it's a dealer stock moquette, as I've seen this moquette in a few Enviro 200's and MPD's, mostly with independents. I think 1799 was with First Stop Travel before joining Arriva North East.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:26 pm)S813 FVK wrote Maybe because it did come from an independent company? 
https://flic.kr/p/auwCPa

Makes sense now!   That explains the 179x secondhand fleet number.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:22 pm)Jimmi wrote I could say what my least favourite seats are but let us not go there again!

The actual most uncomfortable seats I've ever encounted was one of the Dart's Arriva acquired when they took over the Stagecoach Darlington operations, the whole seat was plastic, it was actually painful, thankfully I was only subjected to it once on a short journey.

1658 if I remember right, former 32173. Used to run round my way in Stockton on the 3/4!

(14 Sep 2015, 7:29 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Makes sense now!   That explains the 179x secondhand fleet number.

1799 was one of a few buses acquired from First Stop Travel by Arriva North East and 1799 must have been the only one that wasn't treated to a refurbishment, as I can't imagine it will have been too old at the time Arriva acquired it.

The seat moquette in 1799 can be seen in a number of different buses, found an Enviro 200 on the Ensignbus website with it.
http://www.ensignbus.com/2008-enviro-200.html

(14 Sep 2015, 7:35 pm)tyresmoke wrote 1658 if I remember right, former 32173. Used to run round my way in Stockton on the 3/4!

was that ex stagecoach in sunderland 1773 fleet number?.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:35 pm)tyresmoke wrote 1658 if I remember right, former 32173. Used to run round my way in Stockton on the 3/4!

1657, had the registration K582MGT.

(14 Sep 2015, 7:42 pm)cbma06 wrote was that ex stagecoach in sunderland 1773 fleet number?.

No, 1773 became 32773. This is 32173/1657 which was new to London General as their DRL82 and came from Glenvale.

1658 was the late survivor at Redcar, exhibited at the Royal Rally.

(15 Sep 2015, 8:34 am)Cock Robin wrote 1658 was the late survivor at Redcar, exhibited at the Royal Rally.

K582MGT was 1657 and here's the awful seats after it was withdrawn in 2010.

(15 Sep 2015, 8:44 am)John_R wrote K582MGT was 1657 and here's the awful seats after it was withdrawn in 2010.

*shudders*

Don't think there was anything likeable about that bus.

(15 Sep 2015, 8:44 am)John_R wrote K582MGT was 1657 and here's the awful seats after it was withdrawn in 2010.

That is completely and utterly grim. It doesn't even have the style of the old fashioned vinyl bench seats.

The seats on 4653 are much better than 4661

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(14 Sep 2015, 7:24 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Who's fabric is on 1799's seats? It looks strange, just like what an independent company would have.

The seats on it are the best of any bus ever created

Where I am right now maybe the North East could introduce this idea of having bike racks on the front of the bus

(15 Sep 2015, 9:46 pm)Diamond One wrote Where I am right now maybe the North East could introduce this idea of having bike racks on the front of the bus

I'd love the bike shaped hole in the back of the vehicle in front in stop start traffic

The old limes (didn't they become toonlink?) have bike straps in the buggy space. Not sure I'd like to witness the stand off between an exhausted cyclist and a harrassed mother of very small kids, mind.

(15 Sep 2015, 10:58 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I'd love the bike shaped hole in the back of the vehicle in front in stop start traffic

The old limes (didn't they become toonlink?) have bike straps in the buggy space. Not sure I'd like to witness the stand off between an exhausted cyclist and a harrassed mother of very small kids, mind.

The old lime vehicles the old R reg ones were withdrawn direct while the V/W/X reg ones were repainted red to take a back seat role

One annoying thing about e-leather seating, when you move the seats make a noise, annoyingly someone on this 7 can't sit still and the noise is infuriating.

(16 Sep 2015, 12:58 pm)Jimmi wrote One annoying thing about e-leather seating, when you move the seats make a noise, annoyingly someone on this 7 can't sit still and the noise is infuriating.

The new '14 E400s at Ashington don't have the problem. But the '57s do.