(08 Nov 2015, 8:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Just the other day, I had been using the bus to the office and then jumping on another bus, to head off elsewhere after work.

I had debated getting an explorer, giving me some flexibility, but in the end plumped for a 2zone Buzzfare.

Anyway, apart from there being issues with the 21 and their blinds (and late running) and an Omni that had an engine that could cook a turkey from frozen in minutes - will save those stories for another day, the main observation of my trip, was at a stop on the outskirts of Durham.

It was an all stopper one, that had the expresses calling at it too.
After a wait for a bus, that took an age to arrive, I boarded a 21 and headed off.
What I had noticed during the wait, was the 7 people (who had just finished work for the day) who all let an X12 pass.
Being in Arriva country, that did surprise me.
Heck, there was even a punter who headed off and walked towards Durham out of sheer boredom and frustration.

What got me most of all, was the fact that out of all of the 7 waiting, each and everyone of us, must have had a ticket of some type issued by GNE - despite all heading south, into Durham and deeper into (as I said above) Arriva country.

Thinking of the various permutations and their ultimate destination, I wonder how many are loyal to GNE (and why) and how many don't have a choice on operators between Durham and home.
If they are loyal to GNE and there is the choice of two operators for their trip, is this based on price?

It has to be said, only 3 of the 7 got on the 21. So goodness knows where the other 4 were going. I can only assume they were waiting for an X21 and have a GNE ticket, rather than an ANE one.

It is likely that they did have a return or day ticket. I'm guessing you're talking about Pity Me or Framwellgate Moor, in which case there's 6 21/X21 per hour as opposed to just 2 X12. Buying a ticket that can be used on any of the services costs a lot more for little gain.

Where I live, we only have an GNE services on a Sunday, and that's only once every 2-3 hours. I've never used it. Just travelling between here and Durham, I've got the choice of a 20 minute £7 return journey on Arriva or a 40 minute journey, for about 3/4 of the price with Scarlet Band. I never choose the cheaper journey when I'm not with Big'un because it feels a lot more than twice as long on those buses!

I do buy an explorer rather than an Arriva day ticket for visiting Newcastle, though. It gives me a lot more options fr getting home again than just the X12. Those options extend beyong the 6 possible GNE buses. If there's a problem affecting the buses to Durham from NCL, then I can get the Metro to Sunderland or even the X9 to Peterlee. If i don't mind a slightly slower journey, I can get the X1 to Houghton le Spring and the 20/20A on to Durham - both frequent services that make up a bit for going round the houses. Travelling via stanley takes about the same time as that alternative or there's always the slower buses to CLS, like the 28 and X25.

None of those options would be available if I remained loyal to Arriva.

(Though the one time there was an accident closing the A1, which did make the journey through CLS to Durham impossible, the metro was off, too!)

(09 Nov 2015, 12:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote It is likely that they did have a return or day ticket. I'm guessing you're talking about Pity Me or Framwellgate Moor, in which case there's 6 21/X21 per hour as opposed to just 2 X12. Buying a ticket that can be used on any of the services costs a lot more for little gain.

Where I live, we only have an GNE services on a Sunday, and that's only once every 2-3 hours. I've never used it. Just travelling between here and Durham, I've got the choice of a 20 minute £7 return journey on Arriva or a 40 minute journey, for about 3/4 of the price with Scarlet Band. I never choose the cheaper journey when I'm not with Big'un because it feels a lot more than twice as long on those buses!

I do buy an explorer rather than an Arriva day ticket for visiting Newcastle, though. It gives me a lot more options fr getting home again than just the X12. Those options extend beyong the 6 possible GNE buses. If there's a problem affecting the buses to Durham from NCL, then I can get the Metro to Sunderland or even the X9 to Peterlee. If i don't mind a slightly slower journey, I can get the X1 to Houghton le Spring and the 20/20A on to Durham - both frequent services that make up a bit for going round the houses. Travelling via stanley takes about the same time as that alternative or there's always the slower buses to CLS, like the 28 and X25.

None of those options would be available if I remained loyal to Arriva.

(Though the one time there was an accident closing the A1, which did make the journey through CLS to Durham impossible, the metro was off, too!)

This is all guess work, but taking into account all of them (not including me) letting the X12 go and 4 not boarding a 21 - I can only guess they were waiting for an X21 and were travelling to a point on that route.
A route well shadowed by ANE.
I have no other reasoning as to why they would let two buses into Durham go and wait for a 3rd, after standing for a period of time already.

I have had a look at the prices for travel in that area.

ANE Durham District:   £6.40     £17.40    £58.10    £590.00
GNE Two Zone:            £6.30     £24.90    £86.54    £877.00

I get totally what you are saying about paying for convenience - but for anything more than a day, that is an awful lot more money to fork out for the guys in the example - who also have the choice of ANE services from the Arnison Centre (it was Pity Me I boarded and they all came up Abbey Road).
I often pay for convenience when staying within T&W, buying a Day Rover when travelling beyond the one zone. When travelling for a few days off the bounce, the Network Ticketing options is often the ticket of choice.  
The price gap is nowhere near as big as those listed above though.

Sources:
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/globalassets...es-map.pdf
https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/b...ek-annual/
https://www.simplygo.com/prices/

Fares listed: 1 day, 7 day, Month and annual.

Whether they specifically needed the X21 rather than the 21 or X12 or not would depend on where they were going on the other side of Durham.

They also might, mistakenly, have been under the impression that the 21 takes a lot longer to get into Durham. I hear a lot of misinformation given out, even by drivers. Online route planners are no better. They sometimes only tell you about one of several equally viable options.

Re: specific prices, it's only £3.10 for a GNE Durham City daysaver or £12 for the week - that allows travel between Pity Me and Durham city centre. The Arriva equivalent is £3.60/£13
https://www.simplygo.com/town-and-city-fare-zones/

http://www.transportfocus.org.uk/blog/20...elsewhere/
Kudos for the driver pointing out the cheaper fares, but his colleague may have got the operator mixed up.
Effective branding? Reckon that is for another thread though...

I keep coming back to the same point, but if it is £1.50 between the Ramside and Durham on a 15min/3.5m trip how on earth does it cost another £2.60 to travel a mere 15mins/4.5miles up the road?
It certainly doesn't cost £2.60 to travel between Houghton and the Ramside! It is a tad more expensive than that. If anyone can guess how much it is, you can have 50 #NEBpoints.

I wonder if Anthony Smiths colleague would have been as impressed if he/she had to pay the £4.10 fare?

(11 Nov 2015, 7:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote I keep coming back to the same point, but if it is £1.50 between the Ramside and Durham on a 15min/3.5m trip how on earth does it cost another £2.60 to travel a mere 15mins/4.5miles up the road?

Stop turning round then!

(12 Nov 2015, 5:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote Stop turning round then!

You could always have a word with the powers that be at GNE towers and convince them of the merits and benefits of lowering it and making it a reasonable, attractive fare, for what is a relatively short journey!

There would be loads of benefits, some of which include me never mentioning the £4.10 fare again (remember when I used to complain about the £4.00 fare, prior to the increase?) and drivers not having to apologise to those who pay it.

(13 Nov 2015, 9:42 am)Andreos1 wrote You could always have a word with the powers that be at GNE towers and convince them of the merits and benefits of lowering it and making it a reasonable, attractive fare, for what is a relatively short journey!

There would be loads of benefits, some of which include me never mentioning the £4.10 fare again (remember when I used to complain about the £4.00 fare, prior to the increase?) and drivers not having to apologise to those who pay it.

A lot of the fare difference would be accounted for by the difference between the high volume urban part of the journey and the round the houses rural/village part. The Ramside-Houton part of the journey may not be much longer, as the crow flies, but the bus doesn't travel as the crow flies. Serving the villages on that part of the route is a lot more expensive in terms of fuel and time than the short, direct and quick run from the bus station to Ramside with lots of houses and businesses along the entire route.

(13 Nov 2015, 9:54 am)BusLoverMum wrote A lot of the fare difference would be accounted for by the difference between the high volume urban part of the journey and the round the houses rural/village part. The Ramside-Houton part of the journey may not be much longer, as the crow flies, but the bus doesn't travel as the crow flies. Serving the villages on that part of the route is a lot more expensive in terms of fuel and time than the short, direct and quick run from the bus station to Ramside with lots of houses and businesses along the entire route.

You should check out the fare to Sunderland or as far as South Shields from Durham too .
They use even more fuel heading all that way.

However, seeing as the X20 doesn't go into The Raintons and won't burn the fuel the 20's do, surely it should be cheaper?

The Raintons are interesting in the fact East is in Tyne & Wear and West, Co Durham.
I don't know the West Rainton - Durham fare, but I am guessing it isn't as much as the £4.10 paid by those who live on the other side of the A690.
Obviously those in East Rainton pay a premium to go to Durham, but benefit from the lower T&W fares when travelling to the likes of Houghton or Sunderland.

Mind, for the amount of time those Purple Solars can be stuck in traffic in Durham or when trying to cross the A690 - there will be a canny amount of fuel burned when idling.

There is also competition in Durham on those local runs.

Tis the New Year and traditionally the period we see fares increasing.

With diesel falling in price massively, the fuel hedging planned a few years back looking like a bit of a mistake (granted not many people will have predicted such a fall in diesel prices) and inflation close to zero - I wonder what we will see over the next few weeks?

I had been doing some reading on the 1989 Caracazo protests.
Whilst not for one moment suggesting we will see anything like it would happen here, I wonder how long the push to increase fares will be accepted by the paying public?
Will we see the hedging continue, so that when fuel prices are higher in a few years time, fares will have been stabilised due to operators buying in bulk now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35244393

Bus passenger journeys have fallen in two-thirds of English council areas over the past six years. One reason cited, is prices.

Redcar & Cleveland and Darlington are amongst the areas to see biggest falls.

(09 Jan 2016, 9:25 pm)Andreos1 wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35244393

Bus passenger journeys have fallen in two-thirds of English council areas over the past six years. One reason cited, is prices.

Redcar & Cleveland and Darlington are amongst the areas to see biggest falls.

"the fare has gone from £1.80 to £2.30."

People should try being up here! For £2.30, I'd probably catch the bus every day!

'Martin Abrams, from the Campaign for Better Transport, said: "Across the country, we are seeing a very worrying trend of declining bus usage, a decline which correlates with the huge funding cuts to local authority supported buses we've seen over recent years."'

So, the fall is as much to do with LAs removing supported services/ lowering of CT schemes, etc. 

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to how much operation is directly secured in the Teesside/ Hartlepool areas these days?

(10 Jan 2016, 10:15 am)JakeSavage wrote 'Martin Abrams, from the Campaign for Better Transport, said: "Across the country, we are seeing a very worrying trend of declining bus usage, a decline which correlates with the huge funding cuts to local authority supported buses we've seen over recent years."'

So, the fall is as much to do with LAs removing supported services/ lowering of CT schemes, etc. 

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to how much operation is directly secured in the Teesside/ Hartlepool areas these days?

Very little in Teesside, Redcar still fund some early morning services eg 746/7/8 and 794.
Some councils operate some services themselves though which were previously ran by other companies... I wonder if these are included in the figures or not?

(09 Jan 2016, 11:41 pm)BusLoverMum wrote "the fare has gone from £1.80 to £2.30."

People should try being up here! For £2.30, I'd probably catch the bus every day!

Is it the equivalent of some of our town and city fares?
Either way, as a percentage - the increase is a canny bit

(10 Jan 2016, 10:15 am)JakeSavage wrote 'Martin Abrams, from the Campaign for Better Transport, said: "Across the country, we are seeing a very worrying trend of declining bus usage, a decline which correlates with the huge funding cuts to local authority supported buses we've seen over recent years."'

So, the fall is as much to do with LAs removing supported services/ lowering of CT schemes, etc. 

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to how much operation is directly secured in the Teesside/ Hartlepool areas these days?

Or the cuts from central government to private organisations, unwilling to pick up the slack?

There are probably a whole load of reasons, with things like pricing playing a part.

(10 Jan 2016, 10:20 am)tyresmoke wrote Very little in Teesside, Redcar still fund some early morning services eg 746/7/8 and 794.
Some councils operate some services themselves though which were previously ran by other companies... I wonder if these are included in the figures or not?

Hartlepool is basically zero if I remember correctly.
Even if the council run services such as the Redcar & Cleveland ones aren't included - it shouldn't make up that much difference to the overall figures.
Their loads are negligible, compared to the commercially ran services in the area.

Whilst not solely for bus services, it's worth mentioning that Labour's 'Cost of Public Transport' motion is being put and debated in Commons now. Live coverage on BBC Parliament for anyone interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03gtzgz

I didn't think that fare was too bad to be honest.
Wonder what he would think if he used the 20?

(28 Jan 2016, 4:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03gtzgz

I didn't think that fare was too bad to be honest.
Wonder what he would think if he used the 20?

Or an Arriva service from parts of Northumberland to Newcastle......lets not pretend it is just GNE

(28 Jan 2016, 4:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote Or an Arriva service from parts of Northumberland to Newcastle......lets not pretend it is just GNE

Or just an arriva service into Durham from 5 miles away!

(28 Jan 2016, 4:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote Or an Arriva service from parts of Northumberland to Newcastle......lets not pretend it is just GNE

Or Berwick to Seahouses.....£6.10 adult single

The driver actually apologised to the passenger for such a ridiculous fare.

(28 Jan 2016, 4:50 pm)citaro5284 wrote Or an Arriva service from parts of Northumberland to Newcastle......lets not pretend it is just GNE

It isn't just GNE is it?
I am sure there are loads of examples of fares being disproportionately high, but not too familiar on the fares of services I don't use without a day ticket of some sort.

Birtley Northdene to Birtley Library - £1.40 (not even a mile)

Birtley to Beamish Museum - £1.40

Inexplicable unless Beamish are funding it. That's 5 miles for the price off less than a mile. Was stunned that the X12 is also 60p cheaper than the Angel.

According to the GNE website, there's a £1.40 flat fare in a zone covering Chester-le-Street Town Centre, Birtley, Chester Moor, Waldridge Village, Ouston, Beamish Museum and Great Lumley. There are other town and city flat fare zones, too.

I think I've just explained the 'inexplicable'!

(29 Jan 2016, 8:47 am)eezypeazy wrote According to the GNE website, there's a £1.40 flat fare in a zone covering Chester-le-Street Town Centre, Birtley, Chester Moor, Waldridge Village, Ouston, Beamish Museum and Great Lumley. There are other town and city flat fare zones, too.

I think I've just explained the 'inexplicable'!

I was just looking at that and was wondering if there was a map, showing where the boundaries were for the zones.
According to the GNE site, there are two zones in the Chester area, with no indication as to where those two zones lie
https://www.simplygo.com/town-and-city-fare-zones/.

(29 Jan 2016, 12:28 pm)Andreos1 wrote I was just looking at that and was wondering if there was a map, showing where the boundaries were for the zones.
According to the GNE site, there are two zones in the Chester area, with no indication as to where those two zones lie
https://www.simplygo.com/town-and-city-fare-zones/.

The other zone is probably Barley Mow-Birtley
https://www.simplygo.com/buzzfare/

(29 Jan 2016, 2:31 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The other zone is probably Barley Mow-Birtley
https://www.simplygo.com/buzzfare/

If that is the case, it looks like we could be still waiting for eezypeazy to explain the inexplicable!

The £1.40 flat fare doesn't cover a zone covering Chester-le-Street Town Centre, Birtley, Chester Moor, Waldridge Village, Ouston, Beamish Museum and Great Lumley.
It would be two zones which cover that area and it can cost more than the £1.40 he/she indicated.

Call it an inevitable (or predictable) post, but passenger numbers in the NE has dropped for two consecutive years for GNE.

Last year, the economy and road conditions were given as a reason.
This year, economic conditions again.

Despite this drop, revenue has increased, profit has increased and investment in new vehicles has continued.

I wonder if attractive pricing could be introduced to areas lacking growth as opposed to reducing services?

Several services and their pricing structures have been mentioned in the past and I won't mention them specifically in this post.
I do wonder what a pricing promotion would do to passenger numbers mind.

Most appropriate thread for this:

From the 3rd April, there are some changes to the Explorer scheme:

• No discount for concessions
  
• The Child Explorer Age Limit raised from 13 to 15
  
• Family Tickets introduced for upto 2 Adults and 3 Children.
  

Prices however are frozen at their 2015 prices:

Adult £9.70
Child £8.50
Family £19.50

(02 Mar 2016, 2:21 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Most appropriate thread for this:

From the 3rd April, there are some changes to the Explorer scheme:

• No discount for concessions
  
• The Child Explorer Age Limit raised from 13 to 15
  
• Family Tickets introduced for upto 2 Adults and 3 Children.
  

Prices however are frozen at their 2015 prices:

Adult £9.70
Child £8.50
Family £19.50

Nice. The child ticket doesn't save much over the adult one and never has done, but it's nice that we'll be able to use it a little longer.

Is the family ticket only 2+2, at the moment? If so, that'll be a big improvement for a lot of people.

Strange pricing on the 1:

Howdon to Newcastle is £2.80 yet to Gateshead it's £2.70. Think there is a error with the ticket machines as it's less to travel a further distance.

I forgot to mention that I have found another Deptford based route has a £4.10 fare.

A journey that costs £3.30 on the 20A costs £4.10 on the 36.
The person asking for it looked shocked when the price was quoted and got off, stating how much it was on the 20 and how they would wait for that instead.