(05 Jan 2016, 4:49 pm)GX03 SVC wrote Many people have suggested that in the past 

Many people, or the same few people over and over again?

(05 Jan 2016, 5:42 pm)Jimmi wrote Many people, or the same few people over and over again?

I'll 'sort of' hold my hand up for the past suggestions BUT:

- 1 idea was an incarnation of the old X31 / X32 routes which went via Stakeford and Bedlington Stn rather than Guide Post as well as serving the Hartlands rather than wasting time serving Nedderton.

- The other was an incarnation of the old X33 route serving the exact same route as the current X22 to Glebe Road then the old X22 / X33 route via Nedderton to Newcastle.

Neither of the above made any mention of Dudley or Seaton Burn though

The 28s.

Operates Pelton - Lord Lawson and is a Chester run.
A lot of kids who travel Ouston - Lord Lawson are ex Ouston Primary and St Benets. Their catchment area extends beyond Pelton towards Hilda Park and Pelaw Estate.
Both of which are a excluded from the 28s, due to it starting a few miles up the road.

If coming directly from the depot, starting at The Falcon may make sense.
If coming from another service, such as a TVTE service, the works on the A693, should dictate it comes up Pelaw Bank anyway. 

Reroute one of the following journeys via South Stanley as opposed to South Moor:

- 16A departing Flint Hill at 07:34 (calling at South Moor at 07:57)
- 816 departing Burnopfield at 07:47 (calling at South Moor at 08:12)
- 16A departing Stanley at 08:15 (calling at South Moor at 08:19)

As you can see, on a school day, South Moor has 3 buses to Durham in a space of 22 minutes compared to the 16 which only has 1 bus in 30 minutes (07:01 departure from Castleside arriving at South Stanley at 08:07).

I have witnessed the 16 journey mentioned almost every school day since October and it is regularly full or almsot by the time it gets to South Stanley causing people who board at that stop to have to stand. This journey is only allocated a branded Citaro (and has been allocated Venture Solos in the past) while the first two of the above journeys are allocated double deckers. I just think it would be fairer if South Stanley could gain a second journey that would normally go via South Moor. I suppose my suggestion can be further backed up by saying that the extra 44 on a morning prior to October was allocated a double decker.

The 16 journey was standing room only again this morning. Hope the loadings are reviewed so they can make the relevant changes to the services.

A couple I've just thought of:

X21 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 20 minutes.

X7 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 30 minutes.

(16 Jan 2016, 2:39 am)Davie wrote A couple I've just thought of:

X21 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 20 minutes.

X7 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 30 minutes.

The latter might be possible but if they increased the X21 to every 20 minutes, where would they find the extra buses from on top of the Streetdecks which are coming?

(16 Jan 2016, 9:59 am)DaveyBowyer wrote The latter might be possible but if they increased the X21 to every 20 minutes, where would they find the extra buses from on top of the Streetdecks which are coming?

If a service which is B9 allocated recives investment, then a B9 cpuls be cascaded over.
I couldn't see them suggestions occuring though.

Yet again I know these won't work but:

A. A service between Morpeth and Metrocentre

B. Service 18 withdrawn and replaced by the X21.

C. Service 17 joins the North Tyne Links brand, but no changes to the route.

D. I'm not sure if this would work; but service X25 withdrawn and replaced by services 25 & 26 which would see them run from Newcastle - Durham, replacing the X25 from Newcastle - Langley Park then replacing services 13 & 14 between Langley Park & Durham.

(27 Jan 2016, 12:31 am)Davie wrote Yet again I know these won't work but:

A. A service between Morpeth and Metrocentre

B. Service 18 withdrawn and replaced by the X21.

C. Service 17 joins the North Tyne Links brand, but no changes to the route.

D. I'm not sure if this would work; but service X25 withdrawn and replaced by services 25 & 26 which would see them run from Newcastle - Durham, replacing the X25 from Newcastle - Langley Park then replacing services 13 & 14 between Langley Park & Durham.

I can't personally see a gap in the market that justifies a service between Morpeth and the Metrocentre. There are plenty of buses linking Newcastle with the Metrocentre, and then a fairly frequent service between Newcastle and Morpeth. Although, that said, I think Arriva could attempt to snatch some customers from Go North East and Stagecoach, by providing a service (possibly every 15 or 20 minutes) for connecting customers to use between Haymarket Bus Station and the Metrocentre, with customers having the option to use that as opposed to a service operated by a competitor.

The 18 is a local bus service while the X21 is an express passenger service, and I think it's best that they stay that way, the only thing I can think of would be to alter the times of the 18 so that services connect with inbound X21s and outbound X21s, to try and promote customer usage. 

I think having the X25, 13 and 14 amalgamated into one service wouldn't be a bad idea, but it would result in a big change of the driver duties, as a lot of 13/14 journeys interwork with the X22 at Durham.

(27 Jan 2016, 4:21 pm)R852 PRG wrote I can't personally see a gap in the market that justifies a service between Morpeth and the Metrocentre. There are plenty of buses linking Newcastle with the Metrocentre, and then a fairly frequent service between Newcastle and Morpeth. Although, that said, I think Arriva could attempt to snatch some customers from Go North East and Stagecoach, by providing a service (possibly every 15 or 20 minutes) for connecting customers to use between Haymarket Bus Station and the Metrocentre, with customers having the option to use that as opposed to a service operated by a competitor.

The 18 is a local bus service while the X21 is an express passenger service, and I think it's best that they stay that way, the only thing I can think of would be to alter the times of the 18 so that services connect with inbound X21s and outbound X21s, to try and promote customer usage. 

I think having the X25, 13 and 14 amalgamated into one service wouldn't be a bad idea, but it would result in a big change of the driver duties, as a lot of 13/14 journeys interwork with the X22 at Durham.

I also think Arriva should have a bus service between Newcastle and the Metrocentre, as all they have at the moment is the hourly Nexus supported service 84.

Don't know why people keep suggesting to merge the 18 and X21 as on the current 18 route it wouldn't really be possible to do much with the service running between Woodhouse Close to Coundon with Bishop Auckland Bus Station being slap bang in the middle of the route. I think changing the route may see a decrease in passenger numbers as I think part of the reason the 18 does so well is people from the Coundon end of the route can travel beyond the bus station to reach Morrisons/Asda and the general hospital plus Woodhouse Close Estate whilst the more unreliable Arriva 56 service terminates at the bus station so a change of bus is required, although one journey an hour interworks with the 86 to Toft Hill. The departure times for the 18 in both directions are timed to meet with the X21 in Bishop Auckland Bus Station, so providing the services are running to time you should be able to connect between the two services.

(27 Jan 2016, 4:21 pm)R852 PRG wrote I can't personally see a gap in the market that justifies a service between Morpeth and the Metrocentre. There are plenty of buses linking Newcastle with the Metrocentre, and then a fairly frequent service between Newcastle and Morpeth. Although, that said, I think Arriva could attempt to snatch some customers from Go North East and Stagecoach, by providing a service (possibly every 15 or 20 minutes) for connecting customers to use between Haymarket Bus Station and the Metrocentre, with customers having the option to use that as opposed to a service operated by a competitor.

The 18 is a local bus service while the X21 is an express passenger service, and I think it's best that they stay that way, the only thing I can think of would be to alter the times of the 18 so that services connect with inbound X21s and outbound X21s, to try and promote customer usage. 

I think having the X25, 13 and 14 amalgamated into one service wouldn't be a bad idea, but it would result in a big change of the driver duties, as a lot of 13/14 journeys interwork with the X22 at Durham.

I did say I know they would never happen...

(27 Jan 2016, 8:33 pm)Davie wrote I did say I know they would never happen...

Well why suggest it?

In my opinion, suggestion A is just stupendous, it would cost an awful lot of money in Dead Mileage unless the timetable was made so that the last trip ends at MetroCentre, meaning that people can't get back to Morpeth.

this might sound daft but it will work X8 from Metrocentre to Middlesbrough might work but you never know i've noticed there is not a direct bus from Middlesbrough to Metrocentre people would ether change at Gateshead or Newcastle for a connecting bus

(27 Jan 2016, 12:31 am)Davie wrote Yet again I know these won't work but:

A. A service between Morpeth and Metrocentre

B. Service 18 withdrawn and replaced by the X21.

C. Service 17 joins the North Tyne Links brand, but no changes to the route.

D. I'm not sure if this would work; but service X25 withdrawn and replaced by services 25 & 26 which would see them run from Newcastle - Durham, replacing the X25 from Newcastle - Langley Park then replacing services 13 & 14 between Langley Park & Durham.

No quite sure how having Deckers, already with a long route, bombing around Bishop is going to be an improvement on having a couple of smaller, more economical buses. Even if deckers on the 18 route could somehow be justified when it doesn't even fill a full size single decker at the moment, it would mean that people only needing to travel locally in Bishop would be at the mercy of the whims of traffic in 2 cities and a motorway and would no doubt be narked at having to wait for a bus that's 20 minutes late when they only wanted a few groceries and to pick up a prescription, in the first place.

(27 Jan 2016, 9:56 pm)Diamond One wrote this might sound daft but it will work X8 from Metrocentre to Middlesbrough might work but you never know i've noticed there is not a direct bus from Middlesbrough to Metrocentre people would ether change at Gateshead or Newcastle for a connecting bus

It's a quick connection, though, and I don't think having a single bus on the route would save any time. I could only see it working as an extension of the X88. I don't think GNE would want to extend the X22, as that would take them a long way off their usual territory. Following the X9/10 into the centre of Gateshead would be somewhat pointless.

(16 Jan 2016, 2:39 am)Davie wrote A couple I've just thought of:

X21 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 20 minutes.

X7 - No change to the route but the frequency increased to every 30 minutes.

Cant see the X7 increased to every 30 minutes, the X7 which is due into Sunderland at half 8 this morning is operated by an indigo solo with about 8 passengers on leaving peterlee bus station, passenger numbers have fallen dramatically, this run used to be full leaving peterlee bus station, I wonder if this run is affected due to Arriva X21 to Sunderland about 15 minutes before the X7 leaves.

(28 Jan 2016, 8:15 am)cbma06 wrote Cant see the X7 increased to every 30 minutes, the X7 which is due into Sunderland at half 8 this morning is operated by an indigo solo with about 8 passengers on leaving peterlee bus station, passenger numbers have fallen dramatically, this run used to be full leaving peterlee bus station, I wonder if this run is affected due to Arriva X21 to Sunderland about 15 minutes before the X7 leaves.

Whenever I've used the X7, I've always found it to carry good loads, and often get quite busy. I've never used it for early or late runs mind.

(28 Jan 2016, 9:25 am)Adrian wrote Whenever I've used the X7, I've always found it to carry good loads, and often get quite busy. I've never used it for early or late runs mind.

I imagine that the X7 gets busier later in the day, particularly after around 09:30 when concession passes can be used for free journeys, when I've used the X7 it has pretty busy everytime with of course many of the passengers being pass holders although there has still been a few fare paying passengers as well.

I have used the X7 every now and again...

It seems to have good loads between Sunderland and Seaham, most people who are going to Seaham will get on X7 instead of the 60 when it is in(think it is about 5/10 mins quicker than the 60 to Seaham) and there also quite a few between Seaham and Peterlee, not quite sure about Sunderland-Peterlee or how it does South of Peterlee

(28 Jan 2016, 11:50 am)MrFozz wrote I have used the X7 every now and again...

It seems to have good loads between Sunderland and Seaham, most people who are going to Seaham will get on X7 instead of the 60 when it is in(think it is about 5/10 mins quicker than the 60 to Seaham) and there also quite a few between Seaham and Peterlee, not quite sure about Sunderland-Peterlee or how it does South of Peterlee

Used it a number of times south of Peterlee.
It seems to be used just as a local service to/from the likes of Wingate and Station Town during the day.
There seem to be a few use it from Boro and Stockton as an alternative to the X9/10 too - commuters and student types, both for the full stretch from Peterlee and from Wingate/Station Town.
I used the circa 1515 (?) out of Boro once and was expecting it to be full of school kids from Wellfield as we got there about 30mins later.
Just a few kids with their parents got on.

(28 Jan 2016, 8:15 am)cbma06 wrote Cant see the X7 increased to every 30 minutes, the X7 which is due into Sunderland at half 8 this morning is operated by an indigo solo with about 8 passengers on leaving peterlee bus station, passenger numbers have fallen dramatically, this run used to be full leaving peterlee bus station, I wonder if this run is affected due to Arriva X21 to Sunderland about 15 minutes before the X7 leaves.

There's large parts of the day when there are an awful lot of buses running virtually empty between Sunderland and Peterlee. Sometimes, it seems that 6 buses an hour (X21, 22, 23, X7 - not even counting the X35, here) is too many, but then at peak times, they're all quite busy.

(28 Jan 2016, 1:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote Used it a number of times south of Peterlee.
It seems to be used just as a local service to/from the likes of Wingate and Station Town during the day.
There seem to be a few use it from Boro and Stockton as an alternative to the X9/10 too - commuters and student types, both for the full stretch from Peterlee and from Wingate/Station Town.
I used the circa 1515 (?) out of Boro once and was expecting it to be full of school kids from Wellfield as we got there about 30mins later.
Just a few kids with their parents got on.

Not many of the Wellfield kids are from Peterlee - it's quite a small school (only 3 form entry, I think) and mostly serves the surrounding villages.

(28 Jan 2016, 11:50 am)MrFozz wrote I have used the X7 every now and again...

It seems to have good loads between Sunderland and Seaham, most people who are going to Seaham will get on X7 instead of the 60 when it is in(think it is about 5/10 mins quicker than the 60 to Seaham) and there also quite a few between Seaham and Peterlee, not quite sure about Sunderland-Peterlee or how it does South of Peterlee

South of Peterlee is packed like sardines on a Saturday morning. Had one very uncomfortable journey, last summer, when the driver just kept filling the bus up more and more. Was quite ridiculous, if not dangerous and really bloody hot - I had to sit on a step before I passed out.

Unsure if this has been discussed before; do people here think Go North East would be a welcome change in Hartlepool?

Stagecoach have held the monopoly since purchasing Hartlepool Transport in the nineties and have slashed the network to simplified core routes, most with no evening or Sunday service. Arriva and Go North East only serve long distance, their routes to the town shuttle to the town centre without serving any real 'short-hop' customers.

Where it may be argued that if Stagecoach can't make it work, how could GNE? I would say the companies differ in their approach to planning services. In the North East, Stagecoach have treat their depots as isolated operations and stuck solidly to their PTE routes. GNE have a more broad minded, regional outlook, with 'pockets' of local routes (indigo, tynedale links etc). I think a Hartlepool operation could be made up of a cluster of local routes (eg H1, H2 H3 etc) and the depot used as a hub for new trans-Tees/Durham services

(29 Jan 2016, 10:39 pm)James101 wrote Unsure if this has been discussed before; do people here think Go North East would be a welcome change in Hartlepool?

Stagecoach have held the monopoly since purchasing Hartlepool Transport in the nineties and have slashed the network to simplified core routes, most with no evening or Sunday service. Arriva and Go North East only serve long distance, their routes to the town shuttle to the town centre without serving any real 'short-hop' customers.

Where it may be argued that if Stagecoach can't make it work, how could GNE? I would say the companies differ in their approach to planning services. In the North East, Stagecoach have treat their depots as isolated operations and stuck solidly to their PTE routes. GNE have a more broad minded, regional outlook, with 'pockets' of local routes (indigo, tynedale links etc). I think a Hartlepool operation could be made up of a cluster of local routes (eg H1, H2 H3 etc) and the depot used as a hub for new trans-Tees/Durham services

Can't see Go North East (or Arriva) really taking on any more services within the Hartlepool area when Stagecoach have the monopoly there with various different services on fairly high frequencies on many routes, don't think GNE could compete with that.

Wrong thread I know, but I wonder if Stagecoach could ever do a Hartlepool - Sunderland route to compete with the 23 and X35?

Here's a suggestion for a new Sunderland - Hartlepool route which would provide a half hourly Go North East service between Sunderland and Station Town linked with service X7.

It would be the same route as the X7 between Sunderland and Station Town where it will then head along to Hartlepool via the same route as the supported service 58 run by Scarlet Band although it wouldn't serve Hutton Henry.

Sadly I think the times would not really work.

Arriva did have a presence in Hartlepool local services around 2008 when Hartlepool Council ended a long relationship with Stagecoach and awarded them zero tenders. Arriva took up the 527, 3A and evening 7s. Indeed there was the bizarre situation where at around 6pm, a Stagecoach operated service 7 left the Headland. At York Road, passengers would have to leave the vehicle and board an Arriva one to complete their journey, with no through tickets allowed!

Though a new Stagecoach service could be a success, I think it would be against their business model, though I like the idea.

My thinking is GNE would replace Stagecoach. I think the service and PVR cuts at Hartlepool indicate the profitability of the depot. Stagecoach closing us in the NE isn't unheard of, see Stagecoach Darlington

(29 Jan 2016, 11:11 pm)Jimmi wrote Here's a suggestion for a new Sunderland - Hartlepool route which would provide a half hourly Go North East service between Sunderland and Station Town linked with service X7.

It would be the same route as the X7 between Sunderland and Station Town where it will then head along to Hartlepool via the same route as the supported service 58 run by Scarlet Band although it wouldn't serve Hutton Henry.

Sadly I think the times would not really work.

If a deal was struck with Durham County Council whereby they would help subsidise the route in return for not needing the 58 anymore this could be a good venture

(29 Jan 2016, 11:29 pm)James101 wrote If a deal was struck with Durham County Council whereby they would help subsidise the route in return for not needing the 58 anymore this could be a good venture

Parts of the 58 is still needed, although you could possibly change the 58 to run to Peterlee after Wheatley Hill which would save one bus on that service, although if this was to be done it would probably cost more for Durham County Council to subsidise two different services and Wingate and Station Town would lose their service to Durham.