(15 Apr 2016, 3:21 pm)RobinHood wrote The fact that Arriva are bothering to trial vehicles instead of blindly assuming either would be okay is commendable in my eyes.

Well, it seems they blindly assumed the 750x would be ok as they went to the trouble of branding them. Then they blindly assumed the 748x would be ok, bothering to fit coach seating.....

It's beyond a joke.

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And if they were going to trial them why not do it during the winter so they would be prepared by the summer season started.

(15 Apr 2016, 4:46 pm)Cock Robin wrote Well, it seems they blindly assumed the 750x would be ok as they went to the trouble of branding them. Then they blindly assumed the 748x would be ok, bothering to fit coach seating.....

It's beyond a joke.

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And if they were going to trial them why not do it during the winter so they would be prepared by the summer season started.

To be fair the 748x B7TL's have done alright over the 3 years they've been used, not forgetting they were used full time for their first season, before being relegated to the summer extras only. They still do ok although I'm not sure whether they'd expect to get another year out of them in 2017, hence the reason for trialling some extra summer vehicles in the shape of lower cost B9TL's or freshly refurbished B7TL's again. Hopefully a decision will be made that will allow a fleet to be put into place before the summer really kicks off properly in June.

When did NK10CEO start working for Jesmond. I've just seen it on the 54 to Whitley Bay

(16 Apr 2016, 7:40 am)neilwatson wrote When did NK10CEO start working for Jesmond. I've just seen it on the 54 to Whitley Bay

Where did you see 1435 so I can work out the timings of it

(15 Apr 2016, 5:03 pm)tyresmoke wrote To be fair the 748x B7TL's have done alright over the 3 years they've been used, not forgetting they were used full time for their first season, before being relegated to the summer extras only. They still do ok although I'm not sure whether they'd expect to get another year out of them in 2017, hence the reason for trialling some extra summer vehicles in the shape of lower cost B9TL's or freshly refurbished B7TL's again. Hopefully a decision will be made that will allow a fleet to be put into place before the summer really kicks off properly in June.

With any amount of luck the weather we're getting presently will continue through the summer and the expected crowds/demand won't materialise and we can continue with ex London/Yorkshire filling the gaps; and don't forget Redcar/Dormanstown have 25 Temsa's at their disposal. This sort of thing wouldn't happen if an operator like Transdev/Coastliner had the route. Simple as !  And then just how is it "fair" to give any praise to the 748x series BTL7's? Obviously you've never experienced the "pleasure" of them climbing in and out of Robin Hoods Bay et al or waiting at the roadside as a replacement vehicle is summoned. It's an embarrassment !

(16 Apr 2016, 9:16 am)scania driver wrote With any amount of luck the weather we're getting presently will continue through the summer and the expected crowds/demand won't materialise and we can continue with ex London/Yorkshire filling the gaps; and don't forget Redcar/Dormanstown have 25 Temsa's at their disposal. This sort of thing wouldn't happen if an operator like Transdev/Coastliner had the route. Simple as !  And then just how is it "fair" to give any praise to the 748x series BTL7's? Obviously you've never experienced the "pleasure" of them climbing in and out of Robin Hoods Bay et al or waiting at the roadside as a replacement vehicle is summoned. It's an embarrassment !

Will never forget the experience of one of them falling back down the bank as it wouldn't go into first gear after we stopped half way through... Scary stuff.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:33 am)Dan wrote Will never forget the experience of one of them falling back down the bank as it wouldn't go into first gear after we stopped half way through... Scary stuff.

I rest my case ! Could write a book on the horror stories from this route. Arriva aren't interested though, just give people a free ticket to try the "experience" again.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:45 am)scania driver wrote I rest my case ! Could write a book on the horror stories from this route. Arriva aren't interested though, just give people a free ticket to try the "experience" again.

Tried to email you that fleetlist but system would not accept your email addy

(16 Apr 2016, 9:45 am)scania driver wrote I rest my case ! Could write a book on the horror stories from this route. Arriva aren't interested though, just give people a free ticket to try the "experience" again.

Do agree with RobinHood's sentiments, though, in all fairness. It's good that Arriva can see that the Volvo B7TLs aren't suitable for the extra runs for the summer season, and are trialling other vehicle types. They could, if they so wished, leave things as they are at present (as they have done in the past), seemingly ignoring the issue.

I think that Cock Robin is correct though - they should have done these trials during the winter season, so that everything would be prepared before the summer season started.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:45 am)scania driver wrote I rest my case ! Could write a book on the horror stories from this route. Arriva aren't interested though, just give people a free ticket to try the "experience" again.

If Arriva weren't interested, 7401-6 wouldn't have been purchased. I ask how would it be financially viable to buy 3 or 4 extra B9TLs back in 2014 when they only see use on the route from Easter to Halloween? So, for 5 months of the year you have 4 nearly new buses doing nothing. Hence the use of second hand stock on those boards. If they weren't interested, do you think they would be trying to find a better fit now?

As for common sense and not using some of 1808-15 from Selby, the issue is more Redcar not sorting the issue out early on than it not being suitable for the route. Those that have actually travelled on it will testify that it is as good as 7401-6 despite being 6 and a bit years older. I'd love to see them move up here for use in the summer on the X93.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:48 am)Dan wrote Do agree with RobinHood's sentiments, though, in all fairness. It's good that Arriva can see that the Volvo B7TLs aren't suitable for the extra runs for the summer season, and are trialling other vehicle types. They could, if they so wished, leave things as they are at present (as they have done in the past), seemingly ignoring the issue.

I think that Cock Robin is correct though - they should have done these trials during the winter season, so that everything would be prepared before the summer season started.

I think the issue with the trial happening now is more due to the fact that, during the winter season, Castleford depot were expecting 8 new double deckers ahead of the 'MAX' upgrade of their 189. Of course since then it has become clear that DB have ordered all new vehicle orders to be cancelled leaving holes and gaps to fill.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:48 am)Coppercap40 wrote Tried to email you that fleetlist but system would not accept your email addy

can you try direct to my e-mail on Outlook please ? 'robisdave@live.co.uk'

(16 Apr 2016, 10:03 am)Kuyoyo wrote I think the issue with the trial happening now is more due to the fact that, during the winter season, Castleford depot were expecting 8 new double deckers ahead of the 'MAX' upgrade of their 189. Of course since then it has become clear that DB have ordered all new vehicle orders to be cancelled leaving holes and gaps to fill.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. The new orders for Castleford were only a deduction and not ever confirmed. The North East certainly are not receiving any new vehicles this year but they haven't had any orders cancelled. The budgets set by DB are much tighter this year certainly (hence the NE relying on cascades and refurbishments) but they've not ordered any new orders to be cancelled.

(16 Apr 2016, 10:43 am)tyresmoke wrote I'm not sure that's entirely true. The new orders for Castleford were only a deduction and not ever confirmed. The North East certainly are not receiving any new vehicles this year but they haven't had any orders cancelled. The budgets set by DB are much tighter this year certainly (hence the NE relying on cascades and refurbishments) but they've not ordered any new orders to be cancelled.

That's not really good news is it ?

(16 Apr 2016, 7:57 am)biglugs@yahoo.com wrote Where did you see 1435 so I can work out the timings of it

Killingworth at about 08.40 going to Whitley Bay

(16 Apr 2016, 7:40 am)neilwatson wrote When did NK10CEO start working for Jesmond. I've just seen it on the 54 to Whitley Bay

Got it a week or so ago in exchange for 7416.

(16 Apr 2016, 9:57 am)Kuyoyo wrote If Arriva weren't interested, 7401-6 wouldn't have been purchased. I ask how would it be financially viable to buy 3 or 4 extra B9TLs back in 2014 when they only see use on the route from Easter to Halloween? So, for 5 months of the year you have 4 nearly new buses doing nothing. Hence the use of second hand stock on those boards. If they weren't interested, do you think they would be trying to find a better fit now?

As for common sense and not using some of 1808-15 from Selby, the issue is more Redcar not sorting the issue out early on than it not being suitable for the route. Those that have actually travelled on it will testify that it is as good as 7401-6 despite being 6 and a bit years older. I'd love to see them move up here for use in the summer on the X93.

They only got them 'cos they were dealer stock going cheap.

Why would they be doing nothing - could use them on other Redcar routes (or elsewhere even) freeing up older stuff to reserve.

(16 Apr 2016, 1:10 pm)Cock Robin wrote They only got them 'cos they were dealer stock going cheap.

Why would they be doing nothing - could use them on other Redcar routes (or elsewhere even) freeing up older stuff to reserve.

Even if they were 'going cheap', they'd still cost quite a bit of money, you're never going to buy a brand new B9TL for the price of a Vauxhall Corsa. I think it needs to be accepted that Arriva, especially in this case, didn't do anything 'cheap'.

(16 Apr 2016, 3:49 pm)BusLoverMum wrote 1412 on the 24.
Is this on loan from jesmond?

(16 Apr 2016, 4:23 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com wrote 1413 is onloan to

Following on from the above comments in the Rare & Odd Workings thread, the following allocation amendments came into force from 10th April:

Jesmond
7468 and 7470 transfer in from Ashington, allowing 1412 and 1413 to transfer to Durham
4512 and 7416* temporarily remain in the fleet at Jesmond, allowing 1408 and 1411 to go for MAX refurb.

Durham
1412 and 1413 transfer in from Jesmond, for use on services 56/57

Stockton
1906 in from reserve, retained while vehicles undergo repaint.


* It has since been established, of course, that this vehicle has transferred to Redcar for trials on the X93 while the Volvo B9TL from Yorkshire is VOR.

(16 Apr 2016, 4:29 pm)Dan wrote Following on from the above comments in the Rare & Odd Workings thread, the following allocation amendments came into force from 10th April:

Jesmond
7468 and 7470 transfer in from Ashington, allowing 1412 and 1413 to transfer to Durham
4512 and 7416* temporarily remain in the fleet at Jesmond, allowing 1408 and 1411 to go for MAX refurb.

Durham
1412 and 1413 transfer in from Jesmond, for use on services 56/57

Stockton
1906 in from reserve, retained while vehicles undergo repaint.


* It has since been established, of course, that this vehicle has transferred to Redcar for trials on the X93 while the Volvo B9TL from Yorkshire is VOR.

Why has 1435 not been included ?

(16 Apr 2016, 4:36 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com wrote Why has 1435 not been included ?

I'd imagine it's just a loan? These aren't usually included within Arriva's allocation documents.

1461 likewise wasn't noted on the allocation sheet - but I've heard that this is on loan to Belmont from Darlington at the moment.

(07 Apr 2016, 4:58 pm)Jimmi wrote 1326 has yet to be repainted.

Anyone know if 1326 has gone for repaint yet?

(16 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm)Dan wrote Anyone know if 1326 has gone for repaint yet?

It's in Frequenta base livery now.


Arriva North East - 1326 - YX10EBU by aureolindn, on Flickr

(16 Apr 2016, 4:40 pm)Dan wrote I'd imagine it's just a loan? These aren't usually included within Arriva's allocation documents.

1461 likewise wasn't noted on the allocation sheet - but I've heard that this is on loan to Belmont from Darlington at the moment.

1461 was definitely at Faverdale in the last week. Over the pits most of it, looking like extensive work being carried out

(17 Apr 2016, 8:01 am)MrPottski wrote 1461 was definitely at Faverdale in the last week. Over the pits most of it, looking like extensive work being carried out

It was being used on the 48 yesterday morning.

I may have been a little critical with my comments regarding Arriva and it's X93. Ineed Kuyoko does have a poiint in that it is difficult to justify bringing in additional new BTL9's for just the summer period when revenue is, to a certain degree, dependant on the weather; a simple calculation of the earning potential for the route would demonstrate that it isn't exactlly a high earner and thus justification has to made in terms of what vehicles can be acquired and used. On the flip side, as Cock Robin says, any new vehicles purchased could be transferred in and out of the X93 route as is prevelant with the use of the likes of the 748x series BTL7's. It is a difficult call. Hopefully they are going to get 1808 back of VOR to continue the trials.

(18 Apr 2016, 9:44 am)scania driver wrote I may have been a little critical with my comments regarding Arriva and it's X93. Ineed Kuyoko does have a poiint in that it is difficult to justify bringing in additional new BTL9's for just the summer period when revenue is, to a certain degree, dependant on the weather; a simple calculation of the earning potential for the route would demonstrate that it isn't exactlly a high earner and thus justification has to made in terms of what vehicles can be acquired and used. On the flip side, as Cock Robin says, any new vehicles purchased could be transferred in and out of the X93 route as is prevelant with the use of the likes of the 748x series BTL7's. It is a difficult call. Hopefully they are going to get 1808 back of VOR to continue the trials.

Comparing the the X93 to the X4/4, one has had new vehicles purchased and the other is constantly recieving second hand ones.
However the revenue generated on the slower X4, by virtue of it going around the doors possibly justifies the newer vehicles.
The question could be how the X93 can increase its revenue, whilst maintaining the express element - which is the attraction for door to door punters.

The Gateshead X66 has lost its non-stop attraction and maybe it will suffer as a result.

(18 Apr 2016, 10:13 am)Andreos1 wrote Comparing the the X93 to the X4/4, one has had new vehicles purchased and the other is constantly recieving second hand ones.
However the revenue generated on the slower X4, by virtue of it going around the doors possibly justifies the newer vehicles.
The question could be how the X93 can increase its revenue, whilst maintaining the express element - which is the attraction for door to door punters.

The Gateshead X66 has lost its non-stop attraction and maybe it will suffer as a result.

Comparing the X4/4 and the X93 isn't a great comparison as the trade is different.
The X93 is one of the few routes in the Tees Valley area that is very much the same as it was 10 years ago prior to Viba Tees Valley (and to think that was indeed 10 years ago this year). The X4 is in-fact very different. What is now the X4/4 has been through many different formats in the last decade - pre-Viva the only section of the current X4 that matches that X4 is Middlesbrough to Saltburn and even that took a different route within Middlesbrough. The Saltburn to Loftus section was the 62 and Loftus-Whitby was the X56.
The other factor is that the X4/4 has all year round trade while the X93 can be very quiet in the winter (and so if required, single deckers are more than able to handle the loadings then as they can at present during the week while the schools are in).

However, trade on the X93 especially from Middlesbrough has started to pick up throughout the day now which does suggest that the recent investment and MAX improvements has began to see the route grow. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't see a half hourly Middlesbrough-Scarborough frequency in future years (and maybe every 15 Whitby-Scarborough).

It is a fact that our X93 has grown and grown over the past decade, and dare I say decades? I show my age when I remember it being something like a twice a day extension of the Middlesbrough - Lingdale service operated by United and crewed from the late Loftus depot. Now it appears as one of Arriva's flagship services but how it will develop from here is a difficult call as matching revenue against investment should yield an answer; but then as we know, revenue on the route is very seasonal and to an extent, dependant on the weather.
The X4/4, again an Arriva success, is so different, encompassing not only the seasonal trade but also the communting/shopping revenue gleaned from its Middlesbrough-Redcar-Loftus section. I've not heard what loadings are like on these services lately but wasn't there once talk of increasing the frequency.

I'm slightly surprised that the X93 reverted to its summer timetable so early again this year, I've done the 17:25 journey from Scarborough through to Middlesbrough twice in the last month and the passenger numbers only just exceed 10 passengers for my journey on 1808 on March 31st and my journey on 7416 the other night on the same run only picked up around 6 passengers on the entire route! Mind it possibly didn't help that the all year round journey that should be timetabled to depart 30 minutes in front left around 15 minutes late.