(02 Nov 2016, 11:32 am)GX03 SVC wrote I thought that it would be the Primo on the 15/16 and a Dart on the M1?

I thought it would be the Primo for the M1 because it's been doing the S1 a lot lately, but having looked more closely at the timetables, it could well be one Dart on the M1 and the other on the 15/16. We shall see!

Looking more closely at the timetables, I think it's possible that some of the M1 journeys could interwork with other services, the first weekday morning journey to Thropton looks to work onto the 15 and the last journey from Thropton looks to come off the 15, it also seems coincidental that the weekday (excluding Wednesday's) M1 that leaves Morpeth at 10:00 and return journey run during a gap in service on the S1 timetable, unsure what would work the 15:00 from Morpeth and return journey as both the 15/16 and S1 are in operation during these times.

(03 Nov 2016, 1:17 pm)Jimmi wrote Looking more closely at the timetables, I think it's possible that some of the M1 journeys could interwork with other services, the first weekday morning journey to Thropton looks to work onto the 15 and the last journey from Thropton looks to come off the 15, it also seems coincidental that the weekday (excluding Wednesday's) M1 that leaves Morpeth at 10:00 and return journey run during a gap in service on the S1 timetable, unsure what would work the 15:00 from Morpeth and return journey as both the 15/16 and S1 are in operation during these times.

I don't know if the bus could get from Stannington to Morpeth in 7 minutes though?

Wonder if the 15:00 will work off the Hexham services depending on times?

(03 Nov 2016, 3:52 pm)Tom wrote I don't know if the bus could get from Stannington to Morpeth in 7 minutes though?

Wonder if the 15:00 will work off the Hexham services depending on times?

Was looking at a old print out timetable to get these times for the S1. Bit confused how there is a journey from both Morpeth and Stannington at 09:30 and this is currently the case now, unsure where the second bus comes from.

I was thinking the 15:00 would be whatever does the 808 from Newcastle at 17:20 plus off whatever other services run during the day such as the 613 on a Tuesday, most likely be a van of some description I would imagine.

(03 Nov 2016, 4:13 pm)Jimmi wrote Was looking at a old print out timetable to get these times for the S1. Bit confused how there is a journey from both Morpeth and Stannington at 09:30 and this is currently the case now, unsure where the second bus comes from.

I was thinking the 15:00 would be whatever does the 808 from Newcastle at 17:20 plus off whatever other services run during the day such as the 613 on a Tuesday, most likely be a van of some description I would imagine.

Yeah they could have made things a lot easier by just having one bus on the M1/S1 and another on the 15/16. Quite strange how they've done it.

(03 Nov 2016, 4:23 pm)Tom wrote Yeah they could have made things a lot easier by just having one bus on the M1/S1 and another on the 15/16. Quite strange how they've done it.

would it be better to retime the S1 to fit in with the M1 because I know for certain that the a bus cannot get from stannington to morpeth in 7 minutes.

(03 Nov 2016, 5:18 pm)Buses98 wrote would it be better to retime the S1 to fit in with the M1 because I know for certain that the a bus cannot get from stannington to morpeth in 7 minutes.

Just looking at the timetable I see what Jimmi means now - a journey arrives into Morpeth as the S1 at 09:55 so i'm guessing it will work the M1 at 10:00. But on Wednesday it doesn't look like it can work the S1 on it's return? Really odd.

(03 Nov 2016, 5:18 pm)Buses98 wrote would it be better to retime the S1 to fit in with the M1 because I know for certain that the a bus cannot get from stannington to morpeth in 7 minutes.

According to the timetable on Bus Times, there is a journey which leaves Morpeth Bus Station at 08:40 that arrives at St Mary's adj Lodge Gates at 09:05 then leaves at 09:30 arriving back at Morpeth Bus Station at 09:55 which is 5 minutes before the M1 leaves Morpeth at 10:00, it arrives back in Morpeth at 11:30 (11:40 on Wednesday's, so presumably a different bus will be needed for Wednesday's) then the S1 departs Morpeth at 11:35. There is another journey on the S1 from Morpeth Bus Station at 09:30 arriving at St Mary's adj Lodge at 09:53 with no return journey, so presumably a different bus is used for this journey.

It's probably not possible to use the bus on the S1 for the 15:00 journey from Morpeth as there is a S1 that starts at Morpeth, Chantery School at 15:50 (starts at Morpeth Bus Station at 15:50 on non school days).

PCL Travel have acquired former The Eden Solo V470GBF. It has been repainted into a all green livery with "Rural Link" vinyls.

(04 Nov 2016, 12:01 pm)Jimmi wrote PCL Travel have acquired former The Eden Solo V470GBF. It has been repainted into a all green livery with "Rural Link" vinyls.

With a bit of luck it will show up on one of the Rothbury bound services.

Anyone been on the services today then? What was allocated?

(07 Nov 2016, 5:01 pm)Tom wrote Anyone been on the services today then? What was allocated?

One of the Dart's was allocated to service 15/16 I know that much, I caught a glimpse of it coming into Alnwick this morning.

(07 Nov 2016, 6:39 pm)Cobalt271 wrote One of the Dart's was allocated to service 15/16 I know that much, I caught a glimpse of it coming into Alnwick this morning.

Ah right thanks

It was LG02 FFR. At least it was on the 15 when I passed through Alnwick on an Arriva X15 earlier this afternoon.

Allocation for the new routes this morning is Primo MX07 LBG on the M1 / S1.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gpr_bus_ph...ed-public/

The Dart LG02 FFR on the 15.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gpr_bus_ph...ed-public/

My suggestions about the M1 workings were correct, the 10:00 from Morpeth and return interworks with the S1 and the afternoon run this afternoon was Dart LG02FFP.

---

I decided to sample PCL Travel's efforts on the 15/16 and M1 this afternoon, here's what happened.

I got the 14:15 service 15 from Alnwick with Dart LG02FFR being allocated for this journey, I decided to sit at the back for this journey, avoiding the Urban90's seats of course! first thing I noticed was one of the panels behind the seat was just layed along the ledge over the engine with a canister or something plus wiring being exposed as a result (see photo below). Dart as expected wasn't the greatest bus in the world especially being ex London, it was alright on the straights but the performance on hills wasn't great.

I stayed on-board to ride the circular service 16 with the nice views, just a shame that there is no guided tours anymore.

Upon return to Thropton I had intended to catch their commercial service M1 to Morpeth with Dart LG02FFP being allocated for this run, unfortunately after a driver changeover with the drivers between both services, LG02FFP wouldn't start, both drivers attempting to start the failed Dart but no joy, I was hoping that they would give up after about 10-15 minutes and just send the 16/15 which was working on it's way, but no, both drivers kept on attempting to start the stricken Dart, they left both buses and went to a nearby petrol station to get something to possibly help start the bus, but it was hopeless, so sometime after 16:30 they finally gave up and finally me and the Dart on the 16/15 were on the way to Alnwick, 45 minutes late with me spending that whole time loitering in Thropton wondering how I was going to get home and I had no mobile signal in Thropton so I couldn't alert anyone to the situation I was in (annoyingly just before leaving I discovered that I could have used the Three Wheat Heads' WiFi).

I am now currently on the X15 to Newcastle when I should be somewhere near Chester-le-Street and won't be getting home until around 9pm now. Needless to say, am not amused by this and I have zero desires to ever use one of their services again.

(08 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm)Jimmi wrote My suggestions about the M1 workings were correct, the 10:00 from Morpeth and return interworks with the S1 and the afternoon run this afternoon was Dart LG02FFP.

---

I decided to sample PCL Travel's efforts on the 15/16 and M1 this afternoon, here's what happened.

I got the 14:15 service 15 from Alnwick with Dart LG02FFR being allocated for this journey, I decided to sit at the back for this journey, avoiding the Urban90's seats of course! first thing I noticed was one of the panels behind the seat was just layed along the ledge over the engine with a canister or something plus wiring being exposed as a result (see photo below). Dart as expected wasn't the greatest bus in the world especially being ex London, it was alright on the straights but the performance on hills wasn't great.

I stayed on-board to ride the circular service 16 with the nice views, just a shame that there is no guided tours anymore.

Upon return to Thropton I had intended to catch their commercial service M1 to Morpeth with Dart LG02FFP being allocated for this run, unfortunately after a driver changeover with the drivers between both services, LG02FFP wouldn't start, both drivers attempting to start the failed Dart but no joy, I was hoping that they would give up after about 10-15 minutes and just send the 16/15 which was working on it's way, but no, both drivers kept on attempting to start the stricken Dart, they left both buses and went to a nearby petrol station to get something to possibly help start the bus, but it was hopeless, so sometime after 16:30 they finally gave up and finally me and the Dart on the 16/15 were on the way to Alnwick, 45 minutes late with me spending that whole time loitering in Thropton wondering how I was going to get home and I had no mobile signal in Thropton so I couldn't alert anyone to the situation I was in (annoyingly just before leaving I discovered that I could have used the Three Wheat Heads' WiFi).

I am now currently on the X15 to Newcastle when I should be somewhere near Chester-le-Street and won't be getting home until around 9pm now. Needless to say, am not amused by this and I have zero desires to ever use one of their services again.

Jesus that sounds like such a rough day, and you live a long way from these services too! I certainly won't be hopping aboard anytime soon after reading this.

(08 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm)Jimmi wrote My suggestions about the M1 workings were correct, the 10:00 from Morpeth and return interworks with the S1 and the afternoon run this afternoon was Dart LG02FFP.

---

I decided to sample PCL Travel's efforts on the 15/16 and M1 this afternoon, here's what happened.

I got the 14:15 service 15 from Alnwick with Dart LG02FFR being allocated for this journey, I decided to sit at the back for this journey, avoiding the Urban90's seats of course! first thing I noticed was one of the panels behind the seat was just layed along the ledge over the engine with a canister or something plus wiring being exposed as a result (see photo below). Dart as expected wasn't the greatest bus in the world especially being ex London, it was alright on the straights but the performance on hills wasn't great.

I stayed on-board to ride the circular service 16 with the nice views, just a shame that there is no guided tours anymore.

Upon return to Thropton I had intended to catch their commercial service M1 to Morpeth with Dart LG02FFP being allocated for this run, unfortunately after a driver changeover with the drivers between both services, LG02FFP wouldn't start, both drivers attempting to start the failed Dart but no joy, I was hoping that they would give up after about 10-15 minutes and just send the 16/15 which was working on it's way, but no, both drivers kept on attempting to start the stricken Dart, they left both buses and went to a nearby petrol station to get something to possibly help start the bus, but it was hopeless, so sometime after 16:30 they finally gave up and finally me and the Dart on the 16/15 were on the way to Alnwick, 45 minutes late with me spending that whole time loitering in Thropton wondering how I was going to get home and I had no mobile signal in Thropton so I couldn't alert anyone to the situation I was in (annoyingly just before leaving I discovered that I could have used the Three Wheat Heads' WiFi).

I am now currently on the X15 to Newcastle when I should be somewhere near Chester-le-Street and won't be getting home until around 9pm now. Needless to say, am not amused by this and I have zero desires to ever use one of their services again.

Not great at all then! Wonder how long it will be until they start allocating vans to the M1/S1 and 15/16...

Will still give their services a go sometime though.

(08 Nov 2016, 6:13 pm)Cobalt271 wrote Jesus that sounds like such a rough day, and you live a long way from these services too! I certainly won't be hopping aboard anytime soon after reading this.

Yeah, it could have gone smoother.

I can forgive them for the breakdown, that's something that is unavoidable at times and could have happened to any bus with any operator, the thing that got me was the fact we had two drivers attending to the stricken Dart, was that really necessary? If they just left the broken Dart, the 16/15 would have continued on as normal (maybe a few minutes late) and the M1 would have just not run but instead we had the M1 not running and the 16/15 running 45 minutes late as a result. I do wonder if any other passengers originally intended to catch the 15:50 15 from Rothbury as I was the only passenger all the way to Alnwick.

(08 Nov 2016, 6:20 pm)Tom wrote Not great at all then! Wonder how long it will be until they start allocating vans to the M1/S1 and 15/16...

Will still give their services a go sometime though.

The fact Spirit had a near 100% Reliability Rating while PCL have managed to fail on the second day is rather shocking id say.
As for VANs on the Service's, I wouldn't be surprised if one will be seen by the end of the week!

(08 Nov 2016, 7:34 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote The fact Spirit had a near 100% Reliability Rating while PCL have managed to fail on the second day is rather shocking id say.
As for VANs on the Service's, I wouldn't be surprised if one will be seen by the end of the week!

Yeah it's a joke. No wonder they are failing considering they are using some crap darts and Spirit Buses used a near new E200. Think they need some newer stock as the Darts are ok for the S1 but not for the 15/16/M1.

(08 Nov 2016, 7:34 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote The fact Spirit had a near 100% Reliability Rating while PCL have managed to fail on the second day is rather shocking id say.
As for VANs on the Service's, I wouldn't be surprised if one will be seen by the end of the week!

Is it bad that I've spent the last few days thinking that something would go with the connection between the 16 and M1?

Some communication between the drivers and me would have been nice, rather than 45 minutes of pacing up and down in Thropton not knowing how I was going to get home.

Me and ex London Darts are a bad omen, going back to the X---GGO examples that Arriva had.

(08 Nov 2016, 8:38 pm)Jimmi wrote Is it bad that I've spent the last few days thinking that something would go with the connection between the 16 and M1?

Some communication between the drivers and me would have been nice, rather than 45 minutes of pacing up and down in Thropton not knowing how I was going to get home.

Me and ex London Darts are a bad omen, going back to the X---GGO examples that Arriva had.

We've not heard about those Darts for a while!!

(08 Nov 2016, 7:34 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote The fact Spirit had a near 100% Reliability Rating while PCL have managed to fail on the second day is rather shocking id say.
As for VANs on the Service's, I wouldn't be surprised if one will be seen by the end of the week!

Didn't Sprit have issues with their vehicles when they first got them? I seem to remember buses going back to the leasing company after reliability issues. A quick check of the Spirit thread might confirm either way.

I do wonder if the higher costs incurred by using modern vehicles played a part in their downfall? Suppose it's like having older, cheaper vehicles and the potential for it to be a false economy once repairs and maintenance are paid for.

Do you go for the more expensive modern vehicle that should be more reliable, but costs a fortune to hire? Or do you buy a cheaper, older vehicle and gamble on its reliability?

(08 Nov 2016, 8:38 pm)Jimmi wrote Is it bad that I've spent the last few days thinking that something would go with the connection between the 16 and M1?

Some communication between the drivers and me would have been nice, rather than 45 minutes of pacing up and down in Thropton not knowing how I was going to get home.

Me and ex London Darts are a bad omen, going back to the X---GGO examples that Arriva had.

Did the drivers have the right intentions i.e having both services running? I get it was an inconvenience, there was no communicstion and it may have stressed you out, but I am pretty sure the drivers were doing their utmost to have a full service, even if they ended up running one so late.

Not having a go at either of you, just trying to offer some balance or perspective.

(08 Nov 2016, 8:02 pm)Tom wrote Yeah it's a joke. No wonder they are failing considering they are using some crap darts and Spirit Buses used a near new E200. Think they need some newer stock as the Darts are ok for the S1 but not for the 15/16/M1.

Aye, And Bad Maintenance by the look of things too, No pride in the fleet presentation either, With Paper Cards showing Fleetnumbers and panels lying on the back of the Dart Jimmi was on either.

I wouldn't be bothered if they had newer vehicles IMO, Just some TLC and a more appealing livery, Current Livery looks like Vomit to me haha

(08 Nov 2016, 8:38 pm)Jimmi wrote Is it bad that I've spent the last few days thinking that something would go with the connection between the 16 and M1?

Some communication between the drivers and me would have been nice, rather than 45 minutes of pacing up and down in Thropton not knowing how I was going to get home.

Me and ex London Darts are a bad omen, going back to the X---GGO examples that Arriva had.

45 mins does sound quite bad mind, Hopefully that was ironed out later in the day by the long layovers Spirit had at Cawledge Services ( if they still have them )

I remember them Darts, I don't think my Nana ( Who used to regularly come out on outings back then ) Would've said the same though!

(08 Nov 2016, 9:25 pm)Andreos1 wrote Didn't Sprit have issues with their vehicles when they first got them? I seem to remember buses going back to the leasing company after reliability issues. A quick check of the Spirit thread might confirm either way.

I do wonder if the higher costs incurred by using modern vehicles played a part in their downfall? Suppose it's like having older, cheaper vehicles and the potential for it to be a false economy once repairs and maintenance are paid for.

Do you go for the more expensive modern vehicle that should be more reliable, but costs a fortune to hire? Or do you buy a cheaper, older vehicle and gamble on its reliability?

Spirit had Ceatano bodied Darts which were new around the same time as PCLs ( 2002 ) but I didn't really take notice back then about Maintenance issues.

Moving from the fleet of Darts to the single E200 will have improved the economics of the company, But Steve kept everything Local, Including the Maintenance ( He used the local Mechanic I believe ) while PCL will no doubt have a few PLCs to deal with, Which will reduce the profit of the services.  ( Might be wrong with this )


Bit of a loose loose situation imo, Newer vehicle gets more attention and provides better service, Pushing up profits but cost's more to lease.
While a Older Vehicle will be better suited economically to a lesser demand route like this, So Id say PCL are right in taking the older Darts, But just a bit TLC would keep them running a bit more reliably, Pushing up profits?

Sorry if non of this makes sense, I'm typing on my phone.

Both Dart's pictured here in Thropton earlier this evening.
PCL Travel: 601 - LG02FFR & 600 - LG02FFP by Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr

(08 Nov 2016, 9:37 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote Spirit had Ceatano bodied Darts which were new around the same time as PCLs ( 2002 ) but I didn't really take notice back then about Maintenance issues.

Moving from the fleet of Darts to the single E200 will have improved the economics of the company, But Steve kept everything Local, Including the Maintenance ( He used the local Mechanic I believe ) while PCL will no doubt have a few PLCs to deal with, Which will reduce the profit of the services.  ( Might be wrong with this )


Bit of a loose loose situation imo, Newer vehicle gets more attention and provides better service, Pushing up profits but cost's more to lease.
While a Older Vehicle will be better suited economically to a lesser demand route like this, So Id say PCL are right in taking the older Darts, But just a bit TLC would keep them running a bit more reliably, Pushing up profits?

Sorry if non of this makes sense, I'm typing on my phone.

And all of that comes down to cash flow. 
It is OK having thousands of pounds tied up in assets, but you need cash to hand to finance the maintenance and titivating. 

To go back to your point about keeping it in-house. That in itself will have cost. You either have a multi-skilled driver/fitter/jack of all trades or a dedicated member of staff. That's without the costs involved in purchasing and maintaining equipment and tools. Or you pay someone to do it.

Just to tie this in with the big-boys. After de-reg in 86 (when assets were bought from the government/taxpayer), it was a good few years before the likes of United, Northumbria or Go-ahead were able to finance the purchase of new vehicles. Go-ahead's first purchase from memory was a handful of Lynx's, Alexander Olympians in and the G RTY Delta's circa 1990. That was despite having stock from the 70's on front line service. The last lot of deckers would have been the C OCN Metrobuses and C LJR Olympians 7/8 years previous.
If it takes a PLC 4 or 5 years to purchase new vehicles, you can see how difficult it is for an independent like PCL.

Edit: Completely forgot the MiniLink/bread vans! A clear example of trying to open up new revenue streams.

(08 Nov 2016, 9:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote And all of that comes down to cash flow. 
It is OK having thousands of pounds tied up in assets, but you need cash to hand to finance the maintenance and titivating. 

To go back to your point about keeping it in-house. That in itself will have cost. You either have a multi-skilled driver/fitter/jack of all trades or a dedicated member of staff. That's without the costs involved in purchasing and maintaining equipment and tools. Or you pay someone to do it.

Just to tie this in with the big-boys. After de-reg in 86 (when assets were bought from the government/taxpayer), it was a good few years before the likes of United, Northumbria or Go-ahead were able to finance the purchase of new vehicles. Go-ahead's first purchase from memory was a handful of Lynx's, Alexander Olympians in and the G RTY Delta's circa 1990. That was despite having stock from the 70's on front line service. The last lot of deckers would have been the C OCN Metrobuses and C LJR Olympians 7/8 years previous.
If it takes a PLC 4 or 5 years to purchase new vehicles, you can see how difficult it is for an independent like PCL.

I get what you are saying but the darts and that's horrible Primo they are operating make the company look so unprofessional. One of the darts with S1 sub branding looks terrible, the destinations are all over the place and looks like it has been done by themselves. And the maintenance seems really bad.

Is the use of vans an entirely bad thing? If one thing became clear throughout the 15/16 tendering saga it was the cost of running the routes needed to be reduced. Undoubtedly PCL could tidy up their presentation/branding to improve their public appeal, which wouldn't cost anything - but a well presented Mercedes Sprinter with a clear destination would be entirely agreeable.