I have a KeyCard and a POP Card. I use the POP card more though. I use Go North East when heading into County Durham, Consett and Middlesbrough e.g. But when I am in Northumberland, I always use Arriva. For £1.35 more, I don't mind. For example, if I'm travelling from Ashington to Blyth it would be a total nightmare with Go North East. I would have to get a 19 from Ashington to Cobalt, then a 309 from Cobalt to Blyth. However, it would take me about 30 minutes on the 1!

I personally don't mind what company I use. I don't mind Arriva, but prefer Go North East!

Thats a bloody disgrace that. But when I lost my bus pass (POP Card and Key Card, along with £10) I got charged £2.60 from Battle Hill to Newcastle on the 58. For the rest of the week I just used the 306/308 if going to Newcastle because it was only 80p!

It's great isn't it. Not having a pop card or key card is an excuse for lack of common sense. Thankfully the QCS proposal () would apply a common sense approach. If you don't have a card for whatever reason, or have left it at home, you don't need to worry. A multi-modal single ticket is available for 80p, with a day ticket being priced at £1.50. Only 20p and 40p more expensive than if you were to use a pass.

Wonder what the uptake compared to usage of Key cars in Tyne & Wear is.
If living and travelling in Tyne & Wear, it makes no sense having anything but the Pop card.

However, having it 'just incase', does make sense.
One journey into Co Durham a year, would be worth applying for one.

Plenty of my mates who live in Tyne & Wear don't have Key Cards - they only have POP cards... I just don't understand why.
Let's say they make an off trip to Durham from Sunderland on the 20 once every two months. They're going to make a massive saving by using a Key Card! Christ, some of the posher ones could even afford a new shirt from Jack Wills or something with the savings if they had a Key Card!

Given that your first card is free, I really do not understand why people don't apply for one just in case.

It's great isn't it. Not having a pop card or key card is an excuse for lack of common sense. Thankfully the QCS proposal () would apply a common sense approach. If you don't have a card for whatever reason, or have left it at home, you don't need to worry. A multi-modal single ticket is available for 80p, with a day ticket being priced at £1.50. Only 20p and 40p more expensive than if you were to use a pass.

I cannot see the logic in charging Over 11's full fare.

I cannot see the logic in charging Over 11's full fare.

There is none. It's just a cop out. I don't have to show ID every time I want to go for a pint - a common sense approach is used to valid if I'm eligible to make that purchase.

I cannot see the logic in charging Over 11's full fare.

At what age would you start charging teens full fare, if they were not in possession of a POP or Key Card? I personally think 11 is too young, and that 14 would be more appropriate.
I know 14 year olds that look older than 16, so what's the proof that they are indeed under 16 and they deserve the concessionary travel rate? Simply put, there is none - unless they hold identification which tells the driver otherwise.

At what age would you start charging teens full fare, if they were not in possession of a POP or Key Card? I personally think 11 is too young, but 14 would be more suitable.
I know 14 year olds that look older than 16, so what's the proof that they are indeed under 16 and they deserve the concessionary travel rate? Simply put, there is none.

I do actually disagree with the POP card age being 16. It makes a lot more sense for it to be 18. By 2015 all young people will have to remain in education or training until the age of 18, so I'd imagine the age limit on the scheme would need to be raised anyway? (subject to Nexus raiding the piggy bank).

I understand what you're saying about people looking older, but I see on a daily basis, kids in a school uniform being turned away for not having a POP or Key card. To me the common sense approach would be to issue them an under 18 single, as there's justification behind it. That's the point I was making really. Application of common sense.

The rules should be the same all over though, not different rules in different places. For example in Teesside it's 16, as soon as you go into North Yorkshire or County Durham the limit is 14.

Plenty of my mates who live in Tyne & Wear don't have Key Cards - they only have POP cards... I just don't understand why.
Let's say they make an off trip to Durham from Sunderland on the 20 once every two months. They're going to make a massive saving by using a Key Card! Christ, some of the posher ones could even afford a new shirt from Jack Wills or something with the savings if they had a Key Card!

Given that your first card is free, I really do not understand why people don't apply for one just in case.

If making that odd journey into Co Durham, then it is worth it. I agree with you there.
If it never happens - then that is reason enough to not bother applying.

To order a card 'just incase', but not find it or forget where you left it a year earlier then defeats the object.

The one time me and my son needed a bus into Durham, was one Saturday over the summer and he was charged 90p each way.
It was only afterwards I realised the drivers had made a mistake...

Back in the day - the old T&W child pass was issued on reaching 14. Not 11 and not 16 or 18.

On a slightly different note, I agree with aureolin and the points he has made re the Key card.

Isn't it the 2014/15 academic year? I'm sure I have to stay in education now rather than going out to get a job immediately if that's what I wanted.
My mam keeps on mentioning the fact that surely 'the people who make the POP cards' must be going to bump the age up to 'Under 18' if everyone has to be in some form of education from next year, but I just don't see it happening. Haven't they already released something specific to the Metro for that purpose?

Isn't it the 2014/15 academic year? I'm sure I have to stay in education now rather than going out to get a job immediately if that's what I wanted.
My mam keeps on mentioning the fact that surely 'the people who make the POP cards' must be going to bump the age up to 'Under 18' if everyone has to be in some form of education from next year, but I just don't see it happening. Haven't they already released something specific to the Metro for that purpose?

As ever with the government, it's never simply put! Extract from their website below:

The government has increased the age to which all young people in England must continue in education or training, requiring them to continue until the end of the academic year in which they turn 17 from 2013 and until their 18th birthday from 2015.

This means that pupils who left year 11 in summer 2013 need to continue in education or training until at least the end of the academic year in which they turn 17. Pupils starting year 11 or below in September 2013 will need to continue until at least their 18th birthday.

http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandy...pation/rpa

That being said, you'd expect councils and ITAs to be forced to subsidise fares until such age. If a commercial operator turned round and decided to scrap such scheme, there'd be nothing stopping them do so. I don't know about other areas, but surely a case to raise POP to Under 18.

If the ITA oversee the scheme, who are the operators to decide to implement their own, adapting the age, rules and prices to suit?

The operators don't do it with regard to other types of concessions - so why kids?

These ones are a joke, and demonstrates how expensive Stagecoach in Cumbria fares (well, single fares anyway) are:

© Craig Yip

These ones are a joke, and demonstrates how expensive Stagecoach in Cumbria fares (well, single fares anyway) are:

© Craig Yip

Yes single fares in the Lakes are eye wateringly high, but it subsidises the winter season when hardly anyone wants to travel to Hawkshead or Windermere.

If making that odd journey into Co Durham, then it is worth it. I agree with you there.
If it never happens - then that is reason enough to not bother applying.

To order a card 'just incase', but not find it or forget where you left it a year earlier then defeats the object.

The one time me and my son needed a bus into Durham, was one Saturday over the summer and he was charged 90p each way.
It was only afterwards I realised the drivers had made a mistake...

Back in the day - the old T&W child pass was issued on reaching 14. Not 11 and not 16 or 18.

On a slightly different note, I agree with aureolin and the points he has made re the Key card.

You've hit the nail on the head about key cards, my brother who is few years younger than me is now in his last year of school, he gets a lift to and from school each day and should he meet friends he'll walk or get a lift, so he never uses buses really. Last December, he had to use a bus hime as my mother was working late so I thought with him getting older he may want/need to use buses a bit more so I ordered him a KeyCard from the internet. However, as he was only getting it just in case he uses a bus on the off chance, he soon misplaced the card and it is currently sitting unactivated lost somewhere. As he's now 15, he used the bus to the Sunderland cup game the other day and has to pay £3.15 (I think) Seaham-Sunderland.

You've hit the nail on the head about key cards, my brother who is few years younger than me is now in his last year of school, he gets a lift to and from school each day and should he meet friends he'll walk or get a lift, so he never uses buses really. Last December, he had to use a bus hime as my mother was working late so I thought with him getting older he may want/need to use buses a bit more so I ordered him a KeyCard from the internet. However, as he was only getting it just in case he uses a bus on the off chance, he soon misplaced the card and it is currently sitting unactivated lost somewhere. As he's now 15, he used the bus to the Sunderland cup game the other day and has to pay £3.15 (I think) Seaham-Sunderland.

Amazing isn't it.
Legally he isn't allowed to:
* smoke
* drink
* have sex
* vote
* buy a lottery ticket
* work
* leave full time education
* drive

But because he couldn't find a piece of plastic giving him an entitlement to members club 'reduced prices' (and I use reduced prices carefully), he is charged the same price as an adult who legally can do all of those things listed above.

I thought with him getting older he may want/need to use buses a bit more so I ordered him a KeyCard from the internet. However, as he was only getting it just in case he uses a bus on the off chance, he soon misplaced the card and it is currently sitting unactivated lost somewhere. As he's now 15, he used the bus to the Sunderland cup game the other day and has to pay £3.15 (I think) Seaham-Sunderland.

So, how is it the bus companies fault that he misplaced it and it is sitting somewhere unactivated. I do not complain to Barclays if I lose my debit card and it is my fault.

Also instead of just discussing GNE keycards on here.....what child fares do Arriva and Stagecoach operate to?

So, how is it the bus companies fault that he misplaced it and it is sitting somewhere unactivated. I do not complain to Barclays if I lose my debit card and it is my fault.

Also instead of just discussing GNE keycards on here.....what child fares do Arriva and Stagecoach operate to?

Not sure anyone did say it was GNE's fault if someone lost a Key Card.
It was a discussion revolving around having a card 'just incase' someone needed it.

Can't comment on SNE or ANE prices, as the excellent value £1.10 day ticket using a POP card covers any journeys on their vehicles.
Although Tom mentioned something along the lines of him specifically getting on Arriva bus along the Coast Road after losing his pass, because the journey was 80p rather than the couple of quid it cost him prior to that on a GNE bus

So, how is it the bus companies fault that he misplaced it and it is sitting somewhere unactivated. I do not complain to Barclays if I lose my debit card and it is my fault.

Also instead of just discussing GNE keycards on here.....what child fares do Arriva and Stagecoach operate to?

I believe the VIP card is the Stagecoach equivalent of Go North East's Key Card. If I lose that, I am no longer entitled to the reduced fares it provides.
If I did lose it, it would be my fault. I'm the type of person to have a spare card too, so this is unlikely to happen - but my point still stands.
I'm sure it will be the same story for Arriva too, but we like to focus on Go North East... don't we?

As for still paying child fare without these cards... I often find there isn't a rule for the operator, but it is indeed the driver who decides what to charge the customer.
Go North East drivers seem to always charge the adult fare, but Stagecoach and Arriva drivers seem to sometimes charge the adult fare but sometimes charge the child fare.

I believe the VIP card is the Stagecoach equivalent of Go North East's Key Card. If I lose that, I am no longer entitled to the reduced fares it provides.
If I did lose it, it would be my fault. I'm the type of person to have a spare card too, so this is unlikely to happen - but my point still stands.
I'm sure it will be the same story for Arriva too, but we like to focus on Go North East... don't we?

Arriva have a 80p flat fare in Tyne and Wear. They have a teencard which allows any Under18 (?) to travel for 90p anywhere in Northumberland/T&W.

So, how is it the bus companies fault that he misplaced it and it is sitting somewhere unactivated. I do not complain to Barclays if I lose my debit card and it is my fault.

Also instead of just discussing GNE keycards on here.....what child fares do Arriva and Stagecoach operate to?

You have a bank card which you will use on a daily basis. A key card just in case you need a bus is like paying for a card to go through the Tyne tunnel which I haven't been through in about 10 months (living in County Durham I don't need to all that often). The point is what do GNE get out of this use of key cards, what is the logic? Explain it to me?

Arriva have a 80p flat fare in Tyne and Wear. They have a teencard which allows any Under18 (?) to travel for 90p anywhere in Northumberland/T&W.

As a 16 year old who holds a POP card and is said to look between 16 and 18 years old, would I still be entitled to this flat fare of 80p within Tyne and Wear or would the driver argue that I was an adult as there is no proof that I am indeed a child?
Similarly, if I didn't hold a 'Teen Card', is there any proof I'm actually under 18 years of age and am entitled to this fare?

Like I say, the examples are common across all operators. Personally, I'm glad we have such a system which enables us to have various cards to prove our age. I think it's only right that if a teenager teenager doesn't look like s/he is entitled to the discounted fare and they do not hold ID which proves they are, that they have to pay the normal rate.
As I said earlier, perhaps 11 years of age is too young for these passes to be mandantory and 14 years of age would be more appropriate... It's a shame we don't get more of a say.

So, how is it the bus companies fault that he misplaced it and it is sitting somewhere unactivated. I do not complain to Barclays if I lose my debit card and it is my fault.

Also instead of just discussing GNE keycards on here.....what child fares do Arriva and Stagecoach operate to?

It's funny you should say that. I bank with NatWest and the time I lost my bank card, I gave them a quick call, and they gave me a code to allow me to withdraw some cash from my account. You know? The common sense approach.

Also I thought we were discussing both GNE Keycards and Nexus POP cards? To be honest though, I find Arriva drivers show a lot more leniency than GNE drivers do. The latter appear to quick to follow the rules to the latter. Something you simply can't do in customer services. I have no experience of Stagecoach up here so I can't comment on them.

You have a bank card which you will use on a daily basis. A key card just in case you need a bus is like paying for a card to go through the Tyne tunnel which I haven't been through in about 10 months (living in County Durham I don't need to all that often). The point is what do GNE get out of this use of key cards, what is the logic? Explain it to me?

First, I was meaning there is a system in place to get my money from the Bank, like there is a system to get cheaper rates. If my new card comes through the post and I just put it down and forget where I have put it, Barclays cannot be blamed, a bit like the example you gave. You got a key card and because you either did not activate it or not used it, it is now lost and GNE cannot be held responsible for that surely.

Second, if you read online things like route one, bus and coach most operators are going to smartcards......that will give you some indication what the logic is behind bus operators switching to smartcards.

Arriva have a 80p flat fare in Tyne and Wear. They have a teencard which allows any Under18 (?) to travel for 90p anywhere in Northumberland/T&W.

Teencard is valid across the Arriva North East network except the 93/X93 between Middlesbrough and Scarborough and the X24 between Durham and Metrocentre. Maximum fare is 90p if I remember right which is excellent value.

Teencard is valid across the Arriva North East network except the 93/X93 between Middlesbrough and Scarborough and the X24 between Durham and Metrocentre. Maximum fare is 90p if I remember right which is excellent value.

Ah right, cheers. I thought it was just Northumberland, but yeah, that is excellent value! Is it valid on the 685 too?

Teencard is valid across the Arriva North East network except the 93/X93 between Middlesbrough and Scarborough and the X24 between Durham and Metrocentre. Maximum fare is 90p if I remember right which is excellent value.

Is that 90p regardless of time of day? I.e. no peak/off peak fares?

Is that 90p regardless of time of day? I.e. no peak/off peak fares?

Just off peak.
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/teencard/

Is that 90p regardless of time of day? I.e. no peak/off peak fares?

Information regarding TeenCards can be seen here. It seems there is two separate Teen Cards. One for Northumberland and Tyne and Wear, one for County Durham, Darlington and Richmond.