(15 Jan 2017, 5:22 pm)S813 FVK wrote Pretty strong hint, but not confirmation as such:
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/fleet/item.php?operatorF=2&fleetnoF=5204

Ah right, haven't checked the news so didn't see it.

My bad.


Wonder if the Scania's from the X5 will go on the 9 so the Citaro's can go elsewhere? (as the Scania's are also Euro 5), hopefully the 61 replacing some of the older Versa's in the Simplicity brand.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:23 pm)Michael wrote Ah right, haven't checked the news so didn't see it.

My bad.

Still think the Blue/Green Arrow will get the Blaydon Racers ones and 5331-5338, with the Solars allocated to the 9.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:23 pm)Michael wrote Ah right, haven't checked the news so didn't see it.

My bad.

No no its fine, it has literally just been updated in the last 15 minutes or so. I wouldn't expect you to be straight there

Michael
Ah right, haven't checked the news so didn't see it.

My bad.


Wonder if the Scania's from the X5 will go on the 9 so the Citaro's can go elsewhere? (as the Scania's are also Euro 5), hopefully the 61 replacing some of the older Versa's in the Simplicity brand.

There was discussion a while back about certain buses recieving eminox mods and it being funded by various local authorities. At the time, the query was whether those vehicles were to spend time within the same LA. As an example :- DCC fund mods to 5216 - it stays on routes that go in to Co Durham. 20 and then X35/X5.


I have no idea if it was ever confirmed what rules applied to the funding and if the vehicles were obliged to work in a specific area.

(15 Jan 2017, 4:18 pm)Dan wrote Midnight Blue Streetlites 5445, 5446, 5447 and 5449, as well as red/blue Streetlites 5451 and 5452 were on last night's shipping from Belfast to Heysham.

5445
5446
5447
5449
5451
5452

(15 Jan 2017, 5:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote There was discussion a while back about certain buses recieving eminox mods and it being funded by various local authorities. At the time, the query was whether those vehicles were to spend time within the same LA. As an example :- DCC fund mods to 5216 - it stays on routes that go in to Co Durham. 20 and then X35/X5.


I have no idea if it was ever confirmed what rules applied to the funding and if the vehicles were obliged to work in a specific area.

Ah right, hopefully not.

Would like to see Citaro's back on the 61 though.

------------

Working it out, Deptford might end up with 3 overall spares, the one from the See it Do it brand and two from the 9, which would allow X5, 35/36 and 61 to have 3 spare Citaro's.

5337/5338 would go to Riverside.


------------

Citaro's from the Blaydon Racers would go to the Green Arrow 

Riverside would have 4 Citaro's spares for the Green Arrow, Citylink and Crusader.


Just speculation on the Blaydon Racers though. 

(15 Jan 2017, 5:37 pm)Dan wrote 5445
5446
5447
5449
5451
5452

Stanley now has 5254 and 5452? I can imagine some drivers making a mess of reading those two out 😛

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(15 Jan 2017, 5:45 pm)Jamie M wrote Stanley now has 5254 and 5452? I can imagine some drivers making a mess of reading those two out ?

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Nope.

Stanley's are 5442 - 5451 inclusive.
Riverside's will be 5452 and above.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:45 pm)Jamie M wrote Stanley now has 5254 and 5452? I can imagine some drivers making a mess of reading those two out ?

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I am going to guess that 5452 will be the Riverside spare? If it is for Stanley, that would leave 10 Streetlites - all of which would be branded for Blaydon Racers without a dedicated spare.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:46 pm)Dan wrote Nope.

Stanley's are 5442 - 5451 inclusive.
Riverside's will be 5452 and above.

Thanks.

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(15 Jan 2017, 5:41 pm)Michael wrote Ah right, hopefully not.

Would like to see Citaro's back on the 61 though.

------------

Working it out, Deptford might end up with 3 overall spares, the one from the See it Do it brand and two from the 9, which would allow X5, 35/36 and 61 to have 3 spare Citaro's.

5337/5338 would go to Riverside.


------------

Citaro's from the Blaydon Racers would go to the Green Arrow 

Riverside would have a overall 4 spares for the Green Arrow, Citylink and Crusader.


Just speculation on the Blaydon Racers though. 

I think it would be shortsighted for an LA to fund modifications that are meant to benefit the residents and taxpayers of the area, but not see the full benefits of the mods.

Whereas another LA could benefit, without paying a penny.

Suppose that's what happens when you mix public and private funds.

I am sure whatever was in any agreement will be adhered to.

Without checking news reports from the time and doing digging, I can't remember how long ago the mods were made.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:47 pm)S813 FVK wrote I am going to guess that 5452 will be the Riverside spare? If it is for Stanley, that would leave 10 Streetlites - all of which would be branded for Blaydon Racers without a dedicated spare.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking numbers!

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(15 Jan 2017, 5:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think it would be shortsighted for an LA to fund modifications that are meant to benefit the residents and taxpayers of the area, but not see the full benefits of the mods.

Whereas another LA could benefit, without paying a penny.

Suppose that's what happens when you mix public and private funds.

I am sure whatever was in any agreement will be adhered to.

Without checking news reports from the time and doing digging, I can't remember how long ago the mods were made.

Be about 3-4 years now at a guess, unless time has gone so fast, it's longer.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:58 pm)Michael wrote Be about 3-4 years now at a guess, unless time has gone so fast, it's longer.

Found the invitation to bid guidance documents.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy...idance.pdf

Paragraph 2.4, page 9.

(15 Jan 2017, 6:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote Found the invitation to bid guidance documents.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy...idance.pdf

Paragraph 2.4, page 9.

Wait it was only 2015? =0


"Buses should be expected to be operational on the specified routes for at least five years. Buses may be moved to other localities within England (but not to those out of scope i.e. areas not designated Air Quality Management Areas as designated by the local or transport authority". 


So it looks like it has to be 5 years... wonder where they'll go then?

(15 Jan 2017, 6:17 pm)Michael wrote Wait it was only 2015? =0


"Buses should be expected to be operational on the specified routes for at least five years. Buses may be moved to other localities within England (but not to those out of scope i.e. areas not designated Air Quality Management Areas as designated by the local or transport authority". 


So it looks like it has to be 5 years... wonder where they'll go then?

It only says 'should be' - much like the phrase in the DDA regulations, i would imagine that it is only a recommendation rather than a 'must do'.

(15 Jan 2017, 5:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think it would be shortsighted for an LA to fund modifications that are meant to benefit the residents and taxpayers of the area, but not see the full benefits of the mods.

Whereas another LA could benefit, without paying a penny.

Suppose that's what happens when you mix public and private funds.

I am sure whatever was in any agreement will be adhered to.

Without checking news reports from the time and doing digging, I can't remember how long ago the mods were made.

Given that those residents and taxpayers will be getting the benefit of a brand new Euro 6/LCEB bus (ie., presumably to a much better emissions standard), with any other quality improvements the Company adds, at no cost to the LA, I doubt very much if an LA would worry too much. The cascaded buses are almost bound to work on an Air Quality Corridor somewhere in our region.

(15 Jan 2017, 6:17 pm)Michael wrote Wait it was only 2015? =0


"Buses should be expected to be operational on the specified routes for at least five years. Buses may be moved to other localities within England (but not to those out of scope i.e. areas not designated Air Quality Management Areas as designated by the local or transport authority". 


So it looks like it has to be 5 years... wonder where they'll go then?

The original purple Solar's were done prior to this point. 
I haven't yet checked to see when the 521x series were done.

It's only an expectation according to the documents. Once the operator has been given the taxpayer funds, in theory they can do whatever they want with the vehicles. That could be a cascade somewhere else or indeed selling the (now potentially more valuable) vehicles on. Unless the LA stipulates something specfic in any agreements/contracts.

Edit:
I've managed to dig out this document that supports a Nexus/Pheonix bid:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.northeastca.gov.uk/sites/default/files/file_attachments/CBTF%2520Nexus%2520application%2520FINAL.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjd7PmO58TRAhXFiRoKHcBmB_w4ChAWCB4wAg&usg=AFQjCNEOwSecXUEpMp3CGE1Ht1qWvwR7wQ

(15 Jan 2017, 6:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote The original purple Solar's were done prior to this point. 
I haven't yet checked to see when the 521x series were done.

It's only an expectation according to the documents. Once the operator has been given the taxpayer funds, in theory they can do whatever they want with the vehicles. That could be a cascade somewhere else or indeed selling the (now potentially more valuable) vehicles on. Unless the LA stipulates something specfic in any agreements/contracts.

In theory, yes... but in reality...??? Here in the real world, we're getting considerable investment in Euro 6/LCEB buses, and cascades as a result. Surely it's a win-win?

(15 Jan 2017, 6:40 pm)eezypeazy wrote In theory, yes... but in reality...??? Here in the real world, we're getting considerable investment in Euro 6/LCEB buses, and cascades as a result. Surely it's a win-win?

How are the Cadets/Merits doing that were given mods?
You also failed to mention the funding which is given to operators of said new vehicles. How much is it a mile they get?

(15 Jan 2017, 6:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote How are the Cadets/Merits doing that were given mods?
You also failed to mention the funding which is given to operators of said new vehicles. How much is it a mile they get?

Isn't it up to the government how they stimulate behaviour in any industry? What about all those buses that were bought in the 1960s using New Bus Grant to allow rear entrance buses to be withdrawn early so that one person operation could be introduced faster? That's what governments do.

And credit must go to the manufacturers for coming up with affordable Euro 6/LCEB vehicles.

(16 Jan 2017, 9:36 am)eezypeazy wrote Isn't it up to the government how they stimulate behaviour in any industry? What about all those buses that were bought in the 1960s using New Bus Grant to allow rear entrance buses to be withdrawn early so that one person operation could be introduced faster? That's what governments do.

And credit must go to the manufacturers for coming up with affordable Euro 6/LCEB vehicles.

You didn't answer the questions eezypeazy. According to info on here, the Washington Cadets were given their mods in Jan 15 whilst based in Gateshead. Withdrawn Sept 16.

Is it 9p per km the MicroHybrids get in BSOG uplift?

Re Governments. Suppose it depends on what side of the fence you sit on, regarding specific Government involvment. Sticking with the bus industry, there was the domination by BET and Tilling that was disrupted by Government, there was the Grant you mentioned to speed up one-person operation, later on the push/encouragement to purchase nationalised Leyland vehicles, de-reg in 86, continued financial support in various guises like BSOG to the privatised industry and legislation that allows QCS in the regions.

I have no doubt there will be positives and negatives to each of those involvements - such as the number of manufacturers that ceased trading post-86 when orders for new vehicles dried up. Ditto the impact on operators if/when powers are devolved to LA's or PTE's.

8246 has been withdrawn, this is due to a reduction in the amount of vehicles in the Driver Training fleet.

http://www.northeastbuses.co.uk/fleet/it...peratorF=2&fleetnoF=8246


Wonder how many more will be withdrawn?

(16 Jan 2017, 10:13 am)Andreos1 wrote
You didn't answer the questions eezypeazy. According to info on here, the Washington Cadets were given their mods in Jan 15 whilst based in Gateshead. Withdrawn Sept 16.

Is it 9p per km the MicroHybrids get in BSOG uplift?

Re Governments. Suppose it depends on what side of the fence you sit on, regarding specific Government involvment. Sticking with the bus industry, there was the domination by BET and Tilling that was disrupted by Government, there was the Grant you mentioned to speed up one-person operation, later on the push/encouragement to purchase nationalised Leyland vehicles, de-reg in 86, continued financial support in various guises like BSOG to the privatised industry and legislation that allows QCS in the regions.

I have no doubt there will be positives and negatives to each of those involvements - such as the number of manufacturers that ceased trading post-86 when orders for new vehicles dried up. Ditto the impact on operators if/when powers are devolved to LA's or PTE's.

Sorry, I'm not here just to answer the questions you raise - I'm here because I'm an enthusiast! Besides, you seem to have the answers at your fingertips anyway!

History would suggest that some government interventions are more successful than others. Some, such as nationalisation or interventions involving 'powers', seem to end in excessive public spending, higher fares, reduced services and poorly designed vehicles. Others, such as using a fuel tax rebate to influence manufacturers and operators for the benefit of the passenger, seem to end in vehicle and service improvements. 'Nudges' are sometimes all that's required.

(16 Jan 2017, 11:02 am)Michael wrote 8246 has been withdrawn, this is due to a reduction in the amount of vehicles in the Driver Training fleet.

http://www.northeastbuses.co.uk/fleet/it...peratorF=2&fleetnoF=8246


Wonder how many more will be withdrawn?

I'm under the impression that there are actually more vehicles to join the training fleet in the coming months, once new StreetLite cascades happen.
One of which could be imminent and possible replacement for said Cadet.

(16 Jan 2017, 11:43 am)RBZ 5459 wrote I'm under the impression that there are actually more vehicles to join the training fleet in the coming months, once new StreetLite cascades happen.
One of which could be imminent and possible replacement for said Cadet.

Ah right, wonder if it could be the remaining B10's replacing the Cadets?

(14 Jan 2017, 1:11 pm)LivingOnGNE wrote Does anyone know a exact or procise date for x5 citaro to come on?
Does anyone know a exact or procise date for x5 to come on citaros?

Should be when all the Streetlites enter service on the 16/16A

Currently:

3 are in service

6 were spotted at Heysham docks yesterday, they should/hopefully all arrive this week and enter service quickly.

leaving 5450 (NK66 EVM) to arrive for the Durham Diamond - which hasn't been spotted yet neither at Wrights or Heysham Docks.

Not sure if the DD Citaro's will be temporarily withdrawn from service so they can get repainted or if they'll go to Deptford in plain blue and then go one by one however temporarily withdrawing them seem the better option, but that's my opinion.

(16 Jan 2017, 11:25 am)eezypeazy wrote Sorry, I'm not here just to answer the questions you raise - I'm here because I'm an enthusiast! Besides, you seem to have the answers at your fingertips anyway!

History would suggest that some government interventions are more successful than others. Some, such as nationalisation or interventions involving 'powers', seem to end in excessive public spending, higher fares, reduced services and poorly designed vehicles. Others, such as using a fuel tax rebate to influence manufacturers and operators for the benefit of the passenger, seem to end in vehicle and service improvements. 'Nudges' are sometimes all that's required.

I always thought it was good manners to answer or acknowledge questions, rather than avoid or show contempt like a politician does.
I genuinely didnt know the fine detail about the Cadets, so had to research and find out how many years out of the expected 5, they actually ran about for - when you didn't acknowledge or answer. I honestly thought you would have been willing to share your knowledge.

Without covering old ground and the same points seen elsewhere, particularly in the QCS thread, I think the higher fares, reduced services and poorly designed vehicles are a moot point and in the view of some, is still evident - all these years later.

As an example (and to keep it relevant to the operator), we could refer to the 20 series.
Higher fares (of almost 2.5% in some areas) since the introduction of the more fuel efficient allocation. Despite having fewer opening windows than the previous allocation, having slightly narrower saloon than the previous allocation and being eligible for enhanced BSOG.

5419 still at Chester - 28A at Gateshead to town now.

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(16 Jan 2017, 1:34 pm)Jamie M wrote 5419 still at Chester - 28A at Gateshead to town now.

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And 648 is at Washington. It was on service 50 today.