30 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12/X26/X27/X66/X67/X75 & X76
30 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12 & X93

(28 Oct 2017, 10:14 pm)Malarkey wrote 30 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12/X26/X27/X66/X67/X75 & X76
30 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12 & X93

While I firmly believe that B8RLEs are the only option when the time comes to replace the Omnis, I'm unsure if Arriva would ever go for the suitable option. Equally, unsure if they require 30 single deckers right now?

The current X15 allocation is to be replaced next year, hopefully that gives us a sign if Arriva are willing to purchase vehicles suited to the routes they will be allocated to. A Streetdeck order would be quite the opposite.

(28 Oct 2017, 10:14 pm)Malarkey wrote 30 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12/X26/X27/X66/X67/X75 & X76
30 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12 & X93

I can't see either at all. They'll carry on mostly doing transfers.

(28 Oct 2017, 10:14 pm)Malarkey wrote 30 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12/X26/X27/X66/X67/X75 & X76
30 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12 & X93

Never going to happen, to put it bluntly. Think someone's got drunk 

There's Wright StreetDecks ordered for X15 apparently.

13 x Wright Streetlites for Darlington

Its difficult to place a 'prediction' as such, but I don't for a minute think that Arriva will fork out for 60 new buses...

What I would like to see happen -
12x Enviro 400MMCs (Sapphire spec) for service 7 to replace 6x E400s 7534-38/40 and 6x Pulsars 1514-17/22/23

Then -
7534/35/36 used to displace older E400 7519/20/21 at Belmont for service 6.
7537/38/40 used to displace Pulsar 1524/25/26 at Belmont for service 6 for extra capacity.
1514-17/22-26 used to displace Solos/knackered Tempos on the 56/57/57A/86.

(29 Oct 2017, 12:50 am)omnicity4659 wrote Never going to happen, to put it bluntly. Think someone's got drunk 

There's Wright StreetDecks ordered for X15 apparently.

StreetDecks on the X15 would be suicide. I also, after all of the issues plaguing the Streetlites in the southern part of the region, see it unlikely that Arriva order any Wright integral products in the near future. 

The sensible thing to do with the X15 would be Scania powered Enviro 400s or, at a higher cost, coaching stock - something like the B8RLE/Leopard that Stagecoach are going for.

Sadly it seems the purchase of StreetLite's and StreetDeck's is actually happening, or at least the StreetLite's are, as they are supposedly due to arrive at Darlington in January.

I really can't predict much else, although one thing to consider is from next year, the Whitby Park & Ride contract will require buses no older than 10 years old, so you are either going to need something new or cascades from somewhere, VDL Gemini's or E400's maybe? That's assuming Arriva win the contract again or even bid for it although I imagine it will be Arriva operated again.

(29 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm)Jimmi wrote I really can't predict much else, although one thing to consider is from next year, the Whitby Park & Ride contract will require buses no older than 10 years old, so you are either going to need something new or cascades from somewhere, VDL Gemini's or E400's maybe? That's assuming Arriva win the contract again or even bid for it although I imagine it will be Arriva operated again.

The only vehicle from the X15 allocation less than 10 years old is 7514, but even that will turn 9 in 2018. Potentially a 61 plate Gemini moving to do the contract, with one of the current X15 deckers replacing it?

(29 Oct 2017, 12:50 am)omnicity4659 wrote Never going to happen, to put it bluntly. Think someone's got drunk 

There's Wright StreetDecks ordered for X15 apparently.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't happen when Arriva The Shires, North West (Merseyside), Wales/Cymru and Yorkshire divisions have all had significant investment in the past few years.

Looking back to 2014 Arriva purchased 58 new vehicles for the North East division, since then we've had 31 new vehicles enter service here with the rest being cascades from elsewhere, clearly showing a lack of investment.

(29 Oct 2017, 1:51 pm)Malarkey wrote I can't see any reason why it wouldn't happen when Arriva The Shires, North West (Merseyside), Wales/Cymru and Yorkshire divisions have all had significant investment in the past few years.

Looking back to 2014 Arriva purchased 58 new vehicles for the North East division, since then we've had 31 new vehicles enter service here with the rest being cascades from elsewhere, clearly showing a lack of investment.

Arriva North East have had loads of investment over the years, take the 2009-13 intake of Pulsars, the 2014-5 intake of StreetLites, the 2014-2017 intake of E400s, a brand new depot at Ashington, a refurbished depot at Belmont, and the upcoming relocation of Newcastle depot. 

Then there's all the buses that have been refurbished. 

If that isn't "significant investment" I don't know what is.

(29 Oct 2017, 2:32 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva North East have had loads of investment over the years, take the 2009-13 intake of Pulsars, the 2014-5 intake of StreetLites, the 2014-2017 intake of E400s, a brand new depot at Ashington, a refurbished depot at Belmont, and the upcoming relocation of Newcastle depot. 

Then there's all the buses that have been refurbished. 

If that isn't "significant investment" I don't know what is.

Also, Arriva were the first of the 'big three' to have a full easy accessible fleet, and are about to embark on the largest refurbishment programme in its history.

(29 Oct 2017, 2:32 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva North East have had loads of investment over the years, take the 2009-13 intake of Pulsars, the 2014-5 intake of StreetLites, the 2014-2017 intake of E400s, a brand new depot at Ashington, a refurbished depot at Belmont, and the upcoming relocation of Newcastle depot. 

Then there's all the buses that have been refurbished. 

If that isn't "significant investment" I don't know what is.

I'd largely echo this. Because of the large scale investment from 2009 to 2014 in brand new vehicles, there hasn't been too much need to continue in the same way in the past couple of years. Around 150 single deckers were bought new in that period, as well as around 50 double deckers.

If you then look at the amount for other vehicles that have had Sapphire and MAX refurbishments, the investment has been massive.

I definitely think there will be large investment next year, but likely nowhere near the 60 vehicle mark.

(29 Oct 2017, 2:32 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Arriva North East have had loads of investment over the years, take the 2009-13 intake of Pulsars, the 2014-5 intake of StreetLites, the 2014-2017 intake of E400s, a brand new depot at Ashington, a refurbished depot at Belmont, and the upcoming relocation of Newcastle depot. 

Then there's all the buses that have been refurbished. 

If that isn't "significant investment" I don't know what is.

Take away the fact I was not referring to a new depot or refurbs, there has been a lack of investment in new vehicles since 2014 regardless.

(28 Oct 2017, 10:14 pm)Malarkey wrote 30 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12/X26/X27/X66/X67/X75 & X76
30 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 for MAX Services: X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/X12 & X93

You wish!

---

(29 Oct 2017, 2:43 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Also, Arriva were the first of the 'big three' to have a full easy accessible fleet, and are about to embark on the largest refurbishment programme in its history.

2009 is 8 years ago. You can include the Temsas in that as well.

(29 Oct 2017, 4:04 pm)Malarkey wrote Take away the fact I was not referring to a new depot or refurbs, there has been a lack of investment in new vehicles since 2014 regardless.

Between 2009 and 2015, Arriva bought a total of 313 brand new vehicles for the NE fleet.

In 2016, the second oldest set of vehicles in the fleet, the Y-EBR Lowlanders, were replaced by 55-plate Volvo B7TLs from London, only 10 years of age at the time. ALL of these were treated to a full interior refurbishment with, correct me if I'm wrong, USB charging, high backed e-leather seating and WiFi. 

Now, look at the Arriva fleetlist and tell me where massive investment is needed in brand new vehicles. The B10BLEs will likely go next year, but even so they are still smart internally due to their refurbishment in 2011(?), but only this year did they reach typical "end of life" for a single deck - hell, First are re-trimming and repainting their Y-reg examples in Aberdeen. 

Arriva aren't going to splash out millions ever year on brand new vehicles when they don't need to. Same applies with Go North East and Stagecoach.

(29 Oct 2017, 5:50 pm)mb134 wrote Between 2009 and 2015, Arriva bought a total of 328 brand new vehicles for the NE fleet.

In 2016, the second oldest set of vehicles in the fleet, the Y-EBR Lowlanders, were replaced by 55-plate Volvo B7TLs from London, only 10 years of age at the time. ALL of these were treated to a full interior refurbishment with, correct me if I'm wrong, USB charging, high backed e-leather seating and WiFi. 

Now, look at the Arriva fleetlist and tell me where massive investment is needed in brand new vehicles. The B10BLEs will likely go next year, but even so they are still smart internally due to their refurbishment in 2011(?), but only this year did they reach typical "end of life" for a single deck - hell, First are re-trimming and repainting their Y-reg examples in Aberdeen. 

Arriva aren't going to splash out millions ever year on brand new vehicles when they don't need to. Same applies with Go North East and Stagecoach.

The remaining  Volvo B10BLE's and Cadets are expected to be withdrawn when Darlington gets its new StreetLite's (currently expected in January) with buses transfering between some depots as well.

(29 Oct 2017, 5:50 pm)mb134 wrote Between 2009 and 2015, Arriva bought a total of 313 brand new vehicles for the NE fleet.

In 2016, the second oldest set of vehicles in the fleet, the Y-EBR Lowlanders, were replaced by 55-plate Volvo B7TLs from London, only 10 years of age at the time. ALL of these were treated to a full interior refurbishment with, correct me if I'm wrong, USB charging, high backed e-leather seating and WiFi. 

Now, look at the Arriva fleetlist and tell me where massive investment is needed in brand new vehicles. The B10BLEs will likely go next year, but even so they are still smart internally due to their refurbishment in 2011(?), but only this year did they reach typical "end of life" for a single deck - hell, First are re-trimming and repainting their Y-reg examples in Aberdeen. 

Arriva aren't going to splash out millions ever year on brand new vehicles when they don't need to. Same applies with Go North East and Stagecoach.

Replacing the Scania Omnicities at Darlington, it's well documented how unreliable they are, given a vehicle a refurb and a lick of paint isn't going to improve reliability of a service now is it, I would also look at putting the Ex London B7 Geminis into a reserve role, rather than on a front line express service like the X20.

The services that I noted as part of my original post I do feel would benefit from new vehicles, the X12 being a good example given the fact Go North East are rumoured to be getting new vehicles for the 21 in the next month or so.

(29 Oct 2017, 6:21 pm)Malarkey wrote Replacing the Scania Omnicities at Darlington, it's well documented how unreliable they are, given a vehicle a refurb and a lick of paint isn't going to improve reliability of a service now is it, I would also look at putting the Ex London B7 Geminis into a reserve role, rather than on a front line express service like the X20.

The services that I noted as part of my original post I do feel would benefit from new vehicles, the X12 being a good example given the fact Go North East are rumoured to be getting new vehicles for the 21 in the next month or so.

I agree the Omnicities need replacing, however even if you replace all 05-plates that is still only 18 new vehicles needed. 

I think the new X15 vehicles will likely displace 7511-4 to the X20, with the B7s in turn moving onto something like the 35.

I believe the early B7 Geminis are next on the hitlist should new double decks allow cascades next year

I'd like to see knackered Solo's replaced with the short E200MMC, Omins replaced with full length E200MMC and the oldest deckers replaced with E400MMC. It steers with fleet towards standardised vehicles (and will help with engineering and repairs as the models will be very similar).

And maybe for Darlo since we now have gas facilities, introduce more EcoCities on major routes that require a heavy vehicle, albeit in their required brands (express/premium/eco).

Of course, never will happen with Arriva haha

(30 Oct 2017, 10:47 pm)JoshP wrote I'd like to see knackered Solo's replaced with the short E200MMC, Omins replaced with full length E200MMC and the oldest deckers replaced with E400MMC. It steers with fleet towards standardised vehicles (and will help with engineering and repairs as the models will be very similar).

And maybe for Darlo since we now have gas facilities, introduce more EcoCities on major routes that require a heavy vehicle, albeit in their required brands (express/premium/eco).

Of course, never will happen with Arriva haha

Omnis should be replaced with B8RLEs. They're heavyweight single deck vehicles, to replace them with Enviro 200s or StreetLites would be foolish, though given Arriva, I fully expect it. 

On a similar note, even the Wright website labels the StreetLite as a "midi-bus", yet operators are buying them in their droves as replacements for heavy weight single decks...

(30 Oct 2017, 11:05 pm)mb134 wrote Omnis should be replaced with B8RLEs. They're heavyweight single deck vehicles, to replace them with Enviro 200s or StreetLites would be foolish, though given Arriva, I fully expect it. 

On a similar note, even the Wright website labels the StreetLite as a "midi-bus", yet operators are buying them in their droves as replacements for heavy weight single decks...

In my view, it's unlikely that Arriva will replace the Scania OmniCitys with a bus on the Volvo B8RLE chassis.

Unfortunately for many operators, a bus being low carbon emission certified is what makes the business case stack up to order these new vehicles. Regardless of who the operator buys from, buses which are Euro 6 are very expensive. A bus being low carbon certified makes it eligible for the additional fuel subsidy (BSOG) of 6p per km in England and 14p per km in Scotland. This helps build a solid business case for most operators when buying new vehicles, as there is a solid benefit for buying this type of bus as a replacement for the existing vehicle type.

Any buses in Wrightbus' range which have the 'Micro-Hybrid' package achieve Low Carbon Emission Bus Certification (the Wright Eclipse 3 bodied Volvo B8RLEs don't have this package, like the buses on the Volvo B5TL chassis).

JoshP's suggestion for further gas-powered EcoCitys and full size diesel Enviro200MMCs is the most plausible in my view, though a further order for Streetlites in Darlington could suggest that they're still interested in the Wrightbus LCEB range.


With reference to the Streetlite being labelled as a midibus: the Streetlite is! It's the full-size Streetlite Max (11.5m) which is classed as a full-size single deck bus, and it's this type that we see the most of in this region. The main examples of the 'midibus' range of Streetlites in this region are Go North East's "Saltwell Park" branded examples (this is why they're numbered in the 8xxx series as opposed to 5xxx series).

Can't see the North East getting much more in the way of new single deckers for the next few years, the new order for Darlington next year should see off the last of the Cadets and Volvo B10BLE's although I wouldn't be surprised if a few hang on for a bit longer, especially as 4802 & 4813 aren't likely to be back in service at Darlington anytime soon. It was suggested on here before that the Omnicities are likely to remain in service until around 2020 and once the Cadets and B10's have gone, the only full size single deckers older than the Omni's are the three VDL Commanders.

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(02 Nov 2017, 4:34 pm)Dan wrote In my view, it's unlikely that Arriva will replace the Scania OmniCitys with a bus on the Volvo B8RLE chassis.

Unfortunately for many operators, a bus being low carbon emission certified is what makes the business case stack up to order these new vehicles. Regardless of who the operator buys from, buses which are Euro 6 are very expensive. A bus being low carbon certified makes it eligible for the additional fuel subsidy (BSOG) of 6p per km in England and 14p per km in Scotland. This helps build a solid business case for most operators when buying new vehicles, as there is a solid benefit for buying this type of bus as a replacement for the existing vehicle type.


With reference to the Streetlite being labelled as a midibus: the Streetlite is! It's the full-size Streetlite Max (11.5m) which is classed as a full-size single deck bus, and it's this type that we see the most of in this region. The main examples of the 'midibus' range of Streetlites in this region are Go North East's "Saltwell Park" branded examples (this is why they're numbered in the 8xxx series as opposed to 5xxx series).

I fully agree, hence my point being that while the OmniCitys should be replaced by a vehicle that can handle the demands of the route, in the B8RLE, they won't be. 

Yet the 11.5m Max is still listed on the same page that refers to the Streetlite as a "midi-bus". It's built on a near-identical platform (you can buy an 11.5m Streetlite with the exact same engine as can be found in the 8.8m version.), and was never designed for some of the routes that they're being deployed on - which is my issue. Streetlites, on city routes, are solid enough and I actually quite enjoy travelling on them for short hops - hearing them strain when trying to reach 50mph on the other hand, is a completely different story. Horses for courses.

Where on Wrightbus' website is the full-length "Max" version of their Streetlite referred to as a midibus?

I have gone through their website and the closest I can find is this:
http://www.wrightbusinternational.com/pr...StreetLite

making no reference to the "Max" version.


The truth of the matter is that this version of the Streetlite (at 11.5m) was introduced to compete with full-size single deck offerings (such as the 11.7m Optare Versa, and more recently, other buses such as the full size ADL Enviro200MMC, Mercedes Citaro, etc). They weren't merely designed just to be allocated to buses pottering around city centres. The Streetlites on services in the North East, by and large, seem to cope alright? Some of these services are pretty demanding, too! Whilst long-term it would seem likely that a heavy-weight single-deck vehicle stands a better chance of withstanding the test of time, we have no evidence that the Streetlite Max won't last 15 years in service.

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The biggest problem I find with the StreetDeck and StreetLite is that the engine choices are too linear. Wrightbus should've offered both vehicles with a 6.7 Cummins Unit (Same as ADL) and with the option of either ZF/Voith.

(02 Nov 2017, 7:05 pm)Dan wrote Where on Wrightbus' website is the full-length "Max" version of their Streetlite referred to as a midibus?

I have gone through their website and the closest I can find is this:
http://www.wrightbusinternational.com/pr...StreetLite

making no reference to the "Max" version.


The truth of the matter is that this version of the Streetlite (at 11.5m) was introduced to compete with full-size single deck offerings (such as the 11.7m Optare Versa, and more recently, other buses such as the full size ADL Enviro200MMC, Mercedes Citaro, etc). They weren't merely designed just to be allocated to buses pottering around city centres. The Streetlites on services in the North East, by and large, seem to cope alright? Some of these services are pretty demanding, too! Whilst long-term it would seem likely that a heavy-weight single-deck vehicle stands a better chance of withstanding the test of time, we have no evidence that the Streetlite Max won't last 15 years in service.

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That page contains a link to all right hand drive versions, including the 11.5m variant. 

So, 1573 has been off the road for months with engine failure. The batch on the X1 are constantly off the road with issues. Every single time, without fail, that I've travelled on a Streetlite operated X18/20 it has been late, and completely unable to make up time until a period of sufficient layover. Which routes are 4653/9/64 usually allocated to at Ashington? Yep.

Let's take the 5 examples on arriva x1 service. Every week there is problems with multiple even though there is only 5. Within the past 4 months there's probably less than 20 days where all 5 have been on the road. 1594 is currently on at least it's 3rd engine and is constantly having troubles with overheating and no acceleration. 1593 goes well however this also has troubles on a weekly basis. 1592 seems to be the best one of the batch, with it being the fastest and having less reliability issues than the rest. 1591 & 1590 on the other hand are dangerously slow, and struggle to do 45mph flat out again with these 2 having problems on a very regular basis. Not to mention the fact that the drivers absolutely hate them as the are horrible to drive and they would have a pulsar or a solo any day over a streetlite.
Oh and 1 arriva Stockton driver had to go on long term sickness leave due to bashing his head on the back of the cab compartment as the gearbox became confused and over revved violently shaking the bus causing him to whack his head with a considerable amount of force

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Yep this is certainly true, there's already been two breakdowns on the X1 since Monday now, 1594 is around 40.000Miles behind the rest due to the amount of problems it's had. 1592 seems to be the best of the batch at the moment, although Voith have been out a few times recently with that one. Bearing in mind their are 15 05REG omnicitys at Darlington and 5 15REG Streetlites, an Engineer was telling me that The omnicitys have been doing fine recently with just one or two of the road daily now, with some examples covered over 2 Million Kilometres since New. I wouldn't want to see what the Streetlites are like on the X1 in Three years time never mind 15. At Least the X1 drivers are doing their best to kill them, and at least they'll get a more capable Pulsar instead, which at the moment is nearly every few days.

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