(27 Aug 2017, 1:20 pm)Michael wrote Not sure on that, although it would be great, i can't see it, it was already said that some journeys on the Red Kite, need the B9's so 4 Streetlites to replace those won't happen. 


Rumours are going around that the B5's from the Angel will head to the Coaster.


If true....



15 B5's to the Coaster


3962/65 to a spare role


All 17 Omnicities remain at Percy Main for the 11 and 19, allowing the Volvo/Scania single deckers to move else where to withdraw older ones.

Get what you mean but what I meant was that if GNE would consider ordering 2x spares for the Angel, would it not make sense to order 4x Streetdecks / B5TLs to the same specification as the Streetlites on the Red Kite then transfer 6118-21 to Chester Le Street (3x spare) and Crook (1x spare)? All they would need doing maybe is fitted with NSA's.

17 - Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid - Coaster

• 14 Omnicities would remain at Percy Main to be allocated to the 11/19
  
• Volvo B7RLE's would cascade to other depots replacing older Scania L94's in the fleet.
  
• Blue Arrow Scania L94's would be Withdrawn
  

13 - Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrid - Toon Link

• 13 Omnicities from Stanley + 3 Omnicities from Percy Main would transfer to Chester le Street to replace Scania L94's on the 13/14/28/28A & X25.
  

7 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 (Low Height) - Toon Link

• 7 East Lancs Omnidekka's would cascade to replace older Double Deckers in the fleet.
  

17 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 - Angel

• Volvo B5LH's would transfer to Stanley for the Red Kite, remaining spares would be allocated to the Kites/Toon Link
  
• Wright Streetlites 5409 to 5419 would transfer to Riverside for the 97/97A/X97
  
• Volvo B9's from the Red Kite would be allocated to the 15/15A
  

Scania L94's to be withdrawn would be: 
4927/4929/4930/4932/4933/4935/4938/4940/4941/4944/4947/4948/4949/4966/4967 - Riverside
4937/4969/4976/4989/4990/4991/4992 - Deptford
4945/4956/4957/4958/4959/4960 - Chester le Street
4946/4954/4955/4968/4970/4971/4972/4973/4974/4975 - Percy Main
4942/4943 - Hexham

(05 Sep 2017, 4:27 pm)Malarkey wrote 17 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 - Angel

• Volvo B5LH's would transfer to Stanley for the Red Kite, remaining spares would be allocated to the Kites/Toon Link
  
• Wright Streetlites 5409 to 5419 would transfer to Riverside for the 97/97A/X97
  
• Volvo B9's from the Red Kite would be allocated to the 15/15A
  

This vehicle allocation wouldn't happen in a million years.

Operators cannot claim an enhanced rate of BSOG payment (an extra 6p/km BSOG) for the Volvo B5TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 3. On a stop/start service like the 21, you don't need the extra power of a Volvo B5TL.

It is much more likely that Go North East would order Wright StreetDecks for the Angel, most likely with stop/start technology, for fleet standardisation at Chester-le-Street.

(05 Sep 2017, 4:37 pm)Dan wrote This vehicle allocation wouldn't happen in a million years.

Operators cannot claim an enhanced rate of BSOG payment (an extra 6p/km BSOG) for the Volvo B5TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini 3. On a stop/start service like the 21, you don't need the extra power of a Volvo B5TL.

It is much more likely that Go North East would order Wright StreetDecks for the Angel, most likely with stop/start technology, for fleet standardisation at Chester-le-Street.

In theory though it already happens through the allocation of Volvo B7 Presidents and Omnidekkas on a daily basis to the 21, if you look at other services such as the 56 and 309/310 which are stop/start services like the 21, do they need the "power" of a Volvo B9TL, as if we stuck to your theory Dan then that would mean both the Fab 56 and Cobalt Clipper would be in line for new vehicles next year wouldn't it?

(05 Sep 2017, 4:53 pm)Malarkey wrote In theory though it already happens through the allocation of Volvo B7 Presidents and Omnidekkas on a daily basis to the 21, if you look at other services such as the 56 and 309/310 which are stop/start services like the 21, do they need the "power" of a Volvo B9TL, as if we stuck to your theory Dan then that would mean both the Fab 56 and Cobalt Clipper would be in line for new vehicles next year wouldn't it?

No.

(05 Sep 2017, 4:53 pm)Malarkey wrote In theory though it already happens through the allocation of Volvo B7 Presidents and Omnidekkas on a daily basis to the 21, if you look at other services such as the 56 and 309/310 which are stop/start services like the 21, do they need the "power" of a Volvo B9TL, as if we stuck to your theory Dan then that would mean both the Fab 56 and Cobalt Clipper would be in line for new vehicles next year wouldn't it?

(05 Sep 2017, 4:55 pm)S813 FVK wrote No.

I'm not too sure how or why the Fab56 and Cobalt Clipper are being brought into this? My "theory" relates to the Angel 21 - not those routes..?

The allocation of Volvo B7TLs and OmniDekkas on the 21 relates only to the fact that no spare vehicles to the same specification were ordered for the 21. If, or rather when, new vehicles are ordered for the 21, I would expect that two spares would be ordered to support the 17 branded examples.

The Fab56 and Cobalt Clipper routes probably didn't need a bus as powerful as the Volvo B9TL, but at the time, this was the standard double-deck vehicle for Go North East (with orders previously including the Red Arrows, Tyne Tees Xpress and TEN, which all benefited from a 'meatier' bus). Go North East could have opted for a full-diesel Volvo B9TL for the Angel too, but decided instead to go for the more environmentally-friendly option with better fuel efficiency and a less powerful engine, on the basis that they were being allocated to a route which quite frankly doesn't need a 9-litre engine.

Plus - at the time - there wasn't such a big focus on low-carbon emission buses. There is now, and a bus being LCEB-certified (and the benefits that come with this, such as extra BSOG) is one of the biggest things which makes the business case stack up for new vehicles.

(05 Sep 2017, 5:07 pm)Dan wrote I'm not too sure how or why the Fab56 and Cobalt Clipper are being brought into this? My "theory" relates to the Angel 21 - not those routes..?

The allocation of Volvo B7TLs and OmniDekkas on the 21 relates only to the fact that no spare vehicles to the same specification were ordered for the 21. If, or rather when, new vehicles are ordered for the 21, I would expect that two spares would be ordered to support the 17 branded examples.

The Fab56 and Cobalt Clipper routes probably didn't need a bus as powerful as the Volvo B9TL, but at the time, this was the standard double-deck vehicle for Go North East (with orders previously including the Red Arrows, Tyne Tees Xpress and TEN, which all benefited from a 'meatier' bus). Go North East could have opted for a full-diesel Volvo B9TL for the Angel too, but decided instead to go for the more environmentally-friendly option with better fuel efficiency and a less powerful engine, on the basis that they were being allocated to a route which quite frankly doesn't need a 9-litre engine.

Plus - at the time - there wasn't such a big focus on low-carbon emission buses. There is now, and a bus being LCEB-certified (and the benefits that come with this, such as extra BSOG) is one of the biggest things which makes the business case stack up for new vehicles.

*Mic-drop* 

(05 Sep 2017, 5:07 pm)Dan wrote  Go North East could have opted for a full-diesel Volvo B9TL for the Angel too, but decided instead to go for the more environmentally-friendly option with better fuel efficiency and a less powerful engine, on the basis that they were being allocated to a route which quite frankly doesn't need a 9-litre engine.

Plus - at the time - there wasn't such a big focus on low-carbon emission buses. There is now, and a bus being LCEB-certified (and the benefits that come with this, such as extra BSOG) is one of the biggest things which makes the business case stack up for new vehicles.

The cynic in me feels that GNE went with the hybrid purely due to the cash incentives as opposed to any form of rational thinking but hey ho 

The point on low carbon is a great one, it's inevitable Newcastle will introduce some form of clean air zone with Newcastle CC being so rabidly anti-car and it makes sense to start adapting to that now. (Sure there'll be some canny publicly funded financial incentives thrown the way of small struggling independents like Stagecoach, DB and lil old GNE  )

The Newcastle, Gateshead & South Tyneside Green Zone Initiative is a little idea I have come up with to reduce emissions from Buses within these areas, and would be in partnership with funding from Go North East, Green Bus Fund & Local Councils over a 4 year period. The first year would see the use of demonstration vehicles tested on various routes with the most successful being ordered going into years 2,3 and 4.

The vehicles that would be tested would be the Volvo 7900E which currently on demonstration in Manchester with First Group on there Metroshuttle Network, and the BYD D9UR Electric Alexander Dennis Enviro 200MMC EV which has been successful down London on the 507/521 with Go-Ahead London, Arriva North West also have a batch currently in the process of being delivered.

Services which I have picked out for this initiative are the CityLink 58, Quaylink Q1/Q2/Q3, Green Arrow 97/97A, Loop 93/94 and South Tyne 88/88A.

Specification Brochures:

Volvo 7900E - http://www.volvobuses.co.uk/en-gb/our-of...ctric.html#

BYD D9UR Alexander Dennis Enviro 200MMC EV - http://www.alexander-dennis.com/wp-conte..._FINAL.pdf

Wonder when we will see the next lot of new buses arrive for the 2017/2018 financial year....


Still hope they've gone for the Volvo 7900E but i doubt that................. shame they can't get one on demo.

New buses:
- 12x StreetDecks

Allocations / Cascades:
- 6301-07 + 12x new StreetDecks for Cobalt Clipper.
- 6101-07 to Crook for Castles Express
- 6108-13 to Stanley for Toon Link
- 6114-17 to Stanley for Red Kite
- 6118-21 to Percy Main for DFDS

(14 Mar 2018, 4:29 pm)L469 YVK wrote New buses:
- 12x StreetDecks

Allocations / Cascades:
- 6301-07 + 12x new StreetDecks for Cobalt Clipper.
- 6101-07 to Crook for Castles Express
- 6108-13 to Stanley for Toon Link
- 6114-17 to Stanley for Red Kite
- 6118-21 to Percy Main for DFDS

I doubt we'd ever see the StreetDecks on Castles Express replaced with Volvo B9s. There's no massive need for them to be replaced, either. The allocation of anything besides a StreetDeck has become much more uncommon following the addition of 6332 to the fleet.

They have ups and downs with the StreetDecks at Crook, but they're still some of the most reliable buses in the fleet (despite what is suggested by enthusiasts). The only trouble is when one goes down, the others bizarrely have a habit of following suit at the same time!

The boards on the Toon Link which can be operated by double-decks are operated by double-decks (OmniDekkas at the moment, but gradually being replaced by Volvo B9s). 6108-13 couldn't replace the OmniCitys on Toon Link if this is what you were suggesting, as the single-deck boards operate at least one journey on the X30 (which operates under a low-bridge in Dunston).

However; if/when the Red Kite services are upgraded again, 6118-21 would be a logical cascade to Percy Main for the DFDS service.

(14 Mar 2018, 4:36 pm)Dan wrote I doubt we'd ever see the StreetDecks on Castles Express replaced with Volvo B9s. There's no massive need for them to be replaced, either. The allocation of anything besides a StreetDeck has become much more uncommon following the addition of 6332 to the fleet.

They have ups and downs with the StreetDecks at Crook, but they're still some of the most reliable buses in the fleet (despite what is suggested by enthusiasts). The only trouble is when one goes down, the others bizarrely have a habit of following suit at the same time!

The boards on the Toon Link which can be operated by double-decks are operated by double-decks (OmniDekkas at the moment, but gradually being replaced by Volvo B9s). 6108-13 couldn't replace the OmniCitys on Toon Link if this is what you were suggesting, as the single-deck boards operate at least one journey on the X30 (which operates under a low-bridge in Dunston).

However; if/when the Red Kite services are upgraded again, 6118-21 would be a logical cascade to Percy Main for the DFDS service.

What I meant was that if 6108-13 replace the 6x(?) ex London B9TLs on the Toon Link, then the ex London B9TLs can then be cascaded to other routes if any or replace some OmniDekkas.

(14 Mar 2018, 4:29 pm)L469 YVK wrote New buses:
- 12x StreetDecks

Allocations / Cascades:
- 6301-07 + 12x new StreetDecks for Cobalt Clipper.
- 6101-07 to Crook for Castles Express
- 6108-13 to Stanley for Toon Link
- 6114-17 to Stanley for Red Kite
- 6118-21 to Percy Main for DFDS

If any new deckers ordered id imagine Red Arrows be in line 1st. Then 11/ reg B9s replace omnidekkas

---

(14 Mar 2018, 4:29 pm)L469 YVK wrote New buses:
- 12x StreetDecks

Allocations / Cascades:
- 6301-07 + 12x new StreetDecks for Cobalt Clipper.
- 6101-07 to Crook for Castles Express
- 6108-13 to Stanley for Toon Link
- 6114-17 to Stanley for Red Kite
- 6118-21 to Percy Main for DFDS

If any new deckers ordered to replace B9s, Id imagine Red Arrows be in line 1st. Then 11/12 reg B9s replace omnidekkas

When does 2018/19 lredictions start?

(25 Mar 2018, 6:20 pm)JM03 wrote When does 2018/19 lredictions start?

Go North Easts new financial year starts in June, so orders from the 2017/2018 will still be arriving, doesn't say, you can make a new thread in this section of the forum though.

Is there any orders currently ?

17 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 - Red Arrows

6001 to 6007 and 6049 to 6055 to Stanley for the Red Kite Services 45/46 & 47
6118 to 6121 to Percy Main for DFDS 327 - Omnidekkas Withdrawn
5409 to 5418 to Deptford - Black Cats Solars - Withdrawn

(19 Apr 2018, 6:56 pm)Malarkey wrote 17 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 - Red Arrows

6001 to 6007 and 6049 to 6055 to Stanley for the Red Kite Services 45/46 & 47
6118 to 6121 to Percy Main for DFDS 327 - Omnidekkas Withdrawn
5409 to 5418 to Deptford - Black Cats Solars - Withdrawn

More a gut instinct, rather than being under pretence of insider knowledge.
I don't think the X1 makes as much money as we maybe think it does and therefore, may explain why the B9's have been operating as long as they have, with little sign of any replacement or internal upgrade/refresh.

Across its route, it picks up punters connecting from another service. Whether it be a proportion boarding in Houghton or a lengthy load getting on at the Galleries north-bound, or Gateshead, the Galleries or Houghton southbound.
There are naturally very few points on the route (Hetton maybe excepted), where passengers board and pay a fare expecting to change to a service going somewhere the X1 doesnt.
Grasswell, Hetton, Shiney, Springwell and possibly Wrekenton, are the few places to take cash fares from experience. I would argue numbers (both financial and bums on seats) at those points are dwarfed by numbers at Houghton, the Galleries or Gateshead.

Not sure how this can be fixed.
The route needs deckers and possibly replacements for the vehicles currently allocated, but (as far as I can see), the route doesn't take as much as it should in cash fares...
Passengers across the coalfields and Washington are encouraged by theoperators business model to buy day tickets etc and change buses at key interchange points.
If those tickets are bought on a service which connects to the X1, such as the 4, X5, 8, 35, 36, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86 - then it doesn't really support any financial business case put forward to purchase new vehicles for the X1. The others maybe (in fact look how many of those services have vehicles which are newer than the B9's or have had a refurb).
The X1 no.

(19 Apr 2018, 6:56 pm)Malarkey wrote 17 - Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 - Red Arrows

6001 to 6007 and 6049 to 6055 to Stanley for the Red Kite Services 45/46 & 47
6118 to 6121 to Percy Main for DFDS 327 - Omnidekkas Withdrawn
5409 to 5418 to Deptford - Black Cats Solars - Withdrawn

Scania's are here till June 2019 because of the modifactions made to them.

(19 Apr 2018, 8:14 pm)Michael wrote Scania's are here till June 2019 because of the modifactions made to them.

Streetlites are also unlikely to be displaced. RKs do well enough with single deckers and have BSOG also. More likely in my opinion, is that they will just continue to buy more low carbon buses, rather than just shifting the problem around. Can only see streetlites moving if they get replaced by even more eco-friendly BSOG paying buses.

(19 Apr 2018, 8:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote More a gut instinct, rather than being under pretence of insider knowledge.
I don't think the X1 makes as much money as we maybe think it does and therefore, may explain why the B9's have been operating as long as they have, with little sign of any replacement or internal upgrade/refresh.

Across its route, it picks up punters connecting from another service. Whether it be a proportion boarding in Houghton or a lengthy load getting on at the Galleries north-bound, or Gateshead, the Galleries or Houghton southbound.
There are naturally very few points on the route (Hetton maybe excepted), where passengers board and pay a fare expecting to change to a service going somewhere the X1 doesnt.
Grasswell, Hetton, Shiney, Springwell and possibly Wrekenton, are the few places to take cash fares from experience. I would argue numbers (both financial and bums on seats) at those points are dwarfed by numbers at Houghton, the Galleries or Gateshead.

Not sure how this can be fixed.
The route needs deckers and possibly replacements for the vehicles currently allocated, but (as far as I can see), the route doesn't take as much as it should in cash fares...
Passengers across the coalfields and Washington are encouraged by theoperators business model to buy day tickets etc and change buses at key interchange points.
If those tickets are bought on a service which connects to the X1, such as the 4, X5, 8, 35, 36, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86 - then it doesn't really support any financial business case put forward to purchase new vehicles for the X1. The others maybe (in fact look how many of those services have vehicles which are newer than the B9's or have had a refurb).
The X1 no.

I can see where you're coming from there like. The B9TLs are very well suited to the route too.

The only thing I could perhaps see happening if GNE start to replace the older Omnidekkas and Vykings is:

- New buses being ordered for 'either' the Tyne Valley Ten, Fab 56 or Cobalt Clipper (probably either of the latter 2x taking BSOG and funding into account).

- B9s from whatever route above cascaded onto the Red Arrows and bringing it inline with the specification for most mainstream decker routes (plugs, USBs etc).

- 6049-55 as well as 6005-07 replace the ex London B9s on the Toon Link and 15.

- 6001-04 for DFDS 327.

- Ex London B9s replace older Omnidekkas and Vykings (or older Omnidekkas replace Vykings).

(21 Apr 2018, 11:28 am)L469 YVK wrote I can see where you're coming from there like. The B9TLs are very well suited to the route too.

The only thing I could perhaps see happening if GNE start to replace the older Omnidekkas and Vykings is:

- New buses being ordered for 'either' the Tyne Valley Ten, Fab 56 or Cobalt Clipper (probably either of the latter 2x taking BSOG and funding into account).

- B9s from whatever route above cascaded onto the Red Arrows and bringing it inline with the specification for most mainstream decker routes (plugs, USBs etc).

- 6049-55 as well as 6005-07 replace the ex London B9s on the Toon Link and 15.

- 6001-04 for DFDS 327.

- Ex London B9s replace older Omnidekkas and Vykings (or older Omnidekkas replace Vykings).

I'm not saying the X1 definitely won't get new vehicles. 
I just struggle to see the financials stack up.
It is the same with the last few runs on a night off Newcastle.
There's usually very few cash fares atall from experience and having been in the unfortunate position to have to pay a cash fare a few times, you can understand why.
It makes very little financial sense to run those services. However, it wouldn't do them many favours to cancel those runs, as inbound traffic earlier in the night would likely suffer.

(22 Apr 2018, 4:32 am)Andreos1 wrote I'm not saying the X1 definitely won't get new vehicles. 
I just struggle to see the financials stack up.
It is the same with the last few runs on a night off Newcastle.
There's usually very few cash fares atall from experience and having been in the unfortunate position to have to pay a cash fare a few times, you can understand why.
It makes very little financial sense to run those services. However, it wouldn't do them many favours to cancel those runs, as inbound traffic earlier in the night would likely suffer.

With the QR codes being introduced, is there now not more scope to measure actual passenger numbers on a service?

Three people may buy day tickets on services X, Y and Z, but then if they immediately change onto the X1 is that not what should be looked at?

(22 Apr 2018, 11:04 am)mb134 wrote With the QR codes being introduced, is there now not more scope to measure actual passenger numbers on a service?

Three people may buy day tickets on services X, Y and Z, but then if they immediately change onto the X1 is that not what should be looked at?

I would hope so and think I have commented about it in the past.
I suppose it all depends on how they use the data and whether or not the 2006 changes have impacted on travel patterns to an extent that any data collected is skewed or biased.

I mentioned before about the changes in 2006 (both service and ticket structures) impacting on me attending midweek games.
There won't be any actual data collected by these new machines to report on that, therefore despite there possibly being some demand to reinstate a direct bus, any analysis from QR tickets wont pick this up.
I wont be the only one in that position and it won't just be limited to passengers coming back from the match either.

So many changes in 2006 based on data where its accuracy has to be questioned.

(22 Apr 2018, 1:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote I would hope so and think I have commented about it in the past.
I suppose it all depends on how they use the data and whether or not the 2006 changes have impacted on travel patterns to an extent that any data collected is skewed or biased.

I mentioned before about the changes in 2006 (both service and ticket structures) impacting on me attending midweek games.
There won't be any actual data collected by these new machines to report on that, therefore despite there possibly being some demand to reinstate a direct bus, any analysis from QR tickets wont pick this up.
I wont be the only one in that position and it won't just be limited to passengers coming back from the match either.

So many changes in 2006 based on data where its accuracy has to be questioned.

Ah ye the year where Go North East changed all its network, and tbh, its kinda worked on some routes, at first however, it was confusion as out, loads of services withdrawn and merged with other routes.

Which area was the first to receive branding on such a big scale?

Are the QR codes the same for each ticket issued ( ie the same structure for all purple zone tickets but different for blue zone tickes) or can they actually track when each individaul ticket is used?

(22 Apr 2018, 1:20 pm)Michael wrote Ah ye the year where Go North East changed all its network, and tbh, its kinda worked on some routes, at first however, it was confusion as out, loads of services withdrawn and merged with other routes.

Which area was the first to receive branding on such a big scale?

From memory the very first brandin the current format was Red Arrows mk1 - Expressliners on the X2 Sunderland - Newcastle. From then it was pretty much a ‘Big Bang’ with I *think* Angel, Red Arrows mk2 (Citaros on X1, X2, X3), Magic Roundabout, Doxford Clippers, Washington Street Shuttle, Durham Diamond, Cobalt Clipper, Centurian, Crusader, Prince Bishops, Laser, Drifter, Coaster all launching around the same time, subject to repaints and new vehicle deliveries. Certainly the X1 launched with the omnicities destinied for the Angel prior to Citaro deliveries, before they were quickly swapped off the angel with coaster tridents.

(22 Apr 2018, 1:20 pm)Michael wrote
Ah ye the year where Go North East changed all its network, and tbh, its kinda worked on some routes, at first however, it was confusion as out, loads of services withdrawn and merged with other routes.

Which area was the first to receive branding on such a big scale?

I remember seeing people standing on Burn Park Road in Houghton presumably waiting for a 21a on that first Monday.
No idea how long they were there before they gave up.

As for services which worked from the outset - I think they were just the ones that were revisions or amendments of an established, existing service.
The likes of the 56 had been around for years under the guise of the 56/56A/187/188, before being adapted in to what we see now.
I'm not sure funky flowers and garish colours actually did anything to make it even more popular than it already was, although I appreciate deckers eventually appeared on the route again (having seen deckers on it previously).
Ditto the X1, 21 etc. All established services, given a new colour scheme.

Those that didn't last, such as the ones in Sunderland like the Doxford Dipper, Magic Roundabout - 12 years on and we are still seeing tweaks.
Many a tweak too with the cross-Gateshead services (which again were based on established routes).

Whilst there are still communities lacking a direct service to places they had done for decades previous.

Heard a story from a pretty accurate source, that Mercs will be arriving from at least one other Go-ahead division from next month.

I don't have any further details at this stage, but my guesses are that they will be replacing vehicles over the next period - rather than supplementing them.