(25 Sep 2019, 2:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Thing is, all the designs, all the kit etc are worth something to someone.

Even after MCW went to the wall, their adapted designs were being pumped out.

If the price is attractive and a profit can be made, people will be interested in buying - even if it is just certain assets.

That's why I said I don't think it'll be saved as it is now.

If someone could get it for a good price, find a new factory close by and just move everything over, they could certainly bring it back to profit.

The more I read into it, the less I think the money issues were caused by low sales. It definitely looks to me like all the money was being sucked out of it by it's owners in order to get money to build a new village and a massive church!

In my experience, most cynical view is often the correct one

M

(25 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

I honestly think this is the end for Wrightbus, at least as it is now.

After doing a bit more research and seeing what has came up in the news after this, I wouldn't touch it.

The fact that they made a £4 million donation to a charity run by the owner's son which caused them to make a loss of nearly £2 million.

The same son also happens to own the land and factory, which Wrightbus rent for £1.5 million a year.

It all smells of tax evasion and fraud to me.

Founder’s son, Jeff Wright. The founder (Jeff’s father) now has/had no shareholding in Wrightbus Paster Jeff has/had majority control over Wrightbus, it’s parent company, the property company charging disproportionate rent and the founder of Greener Pastures Church.

It’s fair to say Jeff Wright likes having money, but wasn’t particularly interested in the business of building buses.

 Suppliers will be preferential creditors over customers, that’s if there isn’t already charges over remaining assets of Wrightbus. As it stands GNE have little chance of seeing either the buses or deposits paid so far and if/when Wrightbus ceases to exist they have no chance.

Any company picking up pieces of Wrightbus would have no obligation to fulfil outstanding orders.

(25 Sep 2019, 2:42 pm)James101 wrote

M

Founder’s son, Jeff Wright. The founder (Jeff’s father) now has/had no shareholding in Wrightbus Paster Jeff has/had majority control over Wrightbus, it’s parent company, the property company charging disproportionate rent and the founder of Greener Pastures Church.

It’s fair to say Jeff Wright likes having money, but wasn’t particularly interested in the business of building buses.

 Suppliers will be preferential creditors over customers, that’s if there isn’t already charges over remaining assets of Wrightbus. As it stands GNE have little chance of seeing either the buses or deposits paid so far and if/when Wrightbus ceases to exist they have no chance.

Any company picking up pieces of Wrightbus would have no obligation to fulfil outstanding orders.

Well, it's worse than I thought then!

I'd imagine that considering the Streetdecks were due to arrive September/October time, they'll be pretty much done now, so maybe GNE will be able to pick them up cheap when the assets get sold off (assuming a buyer isn't found)

(25 Sep 2019, 2:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

That's why I said I don't think it'll be saved as it is now.

If someone could get it for a good price, find a new factory close by and just move everything over, they could certainly bring it back to profit.

The more I read into it, the less I think the money issues were caused by low sales. It definitely looks to me like all the money was being sucked out of it by it's owners in order to get money to build a new village and a massive church!

In my experience, most cynical view is often the correct one

Let's see if the authorities agree with you.

If they don't or theres no substance to your self confessed cynical comments, then at least they know where a massive fan of the Wrightbus deckers likes to hang-out

Seriously though, I'm not sure the factory needs to be too near by. I've always thought it strange it has survived so long in a competitive market - stuck out on a limb like it is.

The markets in Northern and Republic of Ireland are hardly the biggest!

Mind, saying that Scarborough and Falkirk are hardly on the cusp of their major customers doorsteps...

(25 Sep 2019, 2:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Let's see if the authorities agree with you.

If they don't or theres no substance to your self confessed cynical comments, then at least they know where a massive fan of the Wrightbus deckers likes to hang-out " alt="" title="">

Seriously though, I'm not sure the factory needs to be too near by. I've always thought it strange it has survived so long in a competitive market - stuck out on a limb like it is.

The markets in Northern and Republic of Ireland are hardly the biggest!

Mind, saying that Scarborough and Falkirk are hardly on the cusp of their major customers doorsteps...

I'm a fan of their bus, not the company! If ADL actually made a good double decker, I'd like them as well!

I was thinking purely in terms of moving around all the production equipment, the less distance they have to move it, the less the cost will be. Especially since it would have to be taken by water to move anywhere near anything!

(25 Sep 2019, 1:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote

They're talking of nationalisation and as much as I would love to see it (for many reasons), I cant see this government doing that.

If they survive (as I said yesterday), I think it will be through a management buyout.

Northern Ireland's manufacturing economy is really struggling at the moment. This is the last thing it needs.

The knock on effect could be huge and felt massively as far away as the docks in Heysham.

Yep. A company like this going under affects the whole supply and distribution chain and could potentially hurt anyone who has an order with them as they simply become creditors, like anyone else, and customers as creditors come pretty low in the rankings as far as administrators are concerned. Horrifying to consider that each of those streetdecks costs about the same as my house (and I no longer live in a cheap part of the county!)

(25 Sep 2019, 3:12 pm)BusLoverMum wrote

Yep. A company like this going under affects the whole supply and distribution chain and could potentially hurt anyone who has an order with them as they simply become creditors, like anyone else, and customers as creditors come pretty low in the rankings as far as administrators are concerned. Horrifying to consider that each of those streetdecks costs about the same as my house (and I no longer live in a cheap part of the county!)

Considering the cost of a StreetDeck is around £250k, and GNE have 31 on order, that's just shy of £8 million that GNE have spent with them.

I assume that they haven't given them the full amount yet since they haven't been delivered yet, but I'd imagine the deposit would be a pretty penny too!

A StreetDeck costs over 5 times what we paid for my house, that's the reason I like living in the cheap part of the country

(25 Sep 2019, 3:02 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

I'm a fan of their bus, not the company! If ADL actually made a good double decker, I'd like them as well!

I was thinking purely in terms of moving around all the production equipment, the less distance they have to move it, the less the cost will be. Especially since it would have to be taken by water to move anywhere near anything!

You could be right in that there's less cost to shift the tools and equipment about.

Still got the huge transport and shipping costs though.

Do they take a one off hit and move manufacturing to the mainland or closer to the docks over there, or mitigate the short-term costs of staying in Ballymena by continuing to face the shipping costs?

Sure the financial experts analysing any such move, will take all of that in to account if/when something comes of it.

(25 Sep 2019, 4:09 pm)Andreos1 wrote

You could be right in that there's less cost to shift the tools and equipment about.

Still got the huge transport and shipping costs though.

Do they take a one off hit and move manufacturing to the mainland or closer to the docks over there, or mitigate the short-term costs of staying in Ballymena by continuing to face the shipping costs?

Sure the financial experts analysing any such move, will take all of that in to account if/when something comes of it.

I'm sure there will be huge financial incentives to stay in Ballymena for anyone that buys them, probably in the form of tax breaks.

It looks like Martijn has chimed in on the matter on Twitter with regards still getting the StreetDecks delivered

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/11...5223237635

We hope so. It’s early days of this ‘new’ news. Hopefully the Administrators will be able to find a buyer.

To me this suggests that they knew about this earlier, but to be honest, we could all see the writing on the wall (pun very much intended).

I'm really starting to wonder if this is why they branched out to ADL for the 97 and X30

A rather interesting, if lengthy, article that's dropped into my Google feed

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2019...istration/

---

(25 Sep 2019, 4:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

I'm sure there will be huge financial incentives to stay in Ballymena for anyone that buys them, probably in the form of tax breaks.

It looks like Martijn has chimed in on the matter on Twitter with regards still getting the StreetDecks delivered

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/11...5223237635

They first sought help a few months ago. I that sense it's not new news, but the fact that the help hasn't arrived is new news.

We hope so. It’s early days of this ‘new’ news. Hopefully the Administrators will be able to find a buyer.

To me this suggests that they knew about this earlier, but to be honest, we could all see the writing on the wall (pun very much intended).

I'm really starting to wonder if this is why they branched out to ADL for the 97 and X30

(25 Sep 2019, 4:47 pm)BusLoverMum wrote A rather interesting, if lengthy, article that's dropped into my Google feed

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2019...istration/

---

It's certainly an interesting, although I don't necessarily agree with the points that they brought up.

Brexit seems to be used as a catch all for bad business decisions these days! They mention that Brexit is 'arguably the crippling final blow' but then don't give any actual reasons to why it was the final blow.

As much as I am a fan of Johnson, I do think that the NBfL project was a bad idea, and that along with the bad reliability of the hybrid system was probably one of the nails in the coffin for Wright.

But as I said further up, I genuinely think that it was being run in to the ground by it's owner to extract as much money out as possible before going bust. That is the only reason I can think of that would explain the sky high rent and enormous donations to their own church

Wonder if the collapse of Wright bus will have a massive effect on the Eco Zones in the likes of Newcastle etc?

I can't see GNE getting their Streetdecks now, probables will have to look elsewhere..... ADL?

I have just watched the BBC News report on Wrightbus.

All employees were indeed sent home this morning and were apparently told that they had lost their jobs, and they took all belongings with them.

Near the end of the report there was drone footage of the factory with a few buses outside - including a one in base X-Lines livery.

(25 Sep 2019, 5:27 pm)AIG20 wrote

I have just watched the BBC News report on Wrightbus.

All employees were indeed sent home this morning and were apparently told that they had lost their jobs, and they took all belongings with them.

Near the end of the report there was drone footage of the factory with a few buses outside - including a one in base X-Lines livery.

Actually, there were 2 in X-Lines Livery, one in Green and One in Blue. Which confirms that either X31/45/46 or X47/70/71 or all of them are going green

(25 Sep 2019, 4:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

I'm sure there will be huge financial incentives to stay in Ballymena for anyone that buys them, probably in the form of tax breaks.

It looks like Martijn has chimed in on the matter on Twitter with regards still getting the StreetDecks delivered

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/11...5223237635

We hope so. It’s early days of this ‘new’ news. Hopefully the Administrators will be able to find a buyer.

To me this suggests that they knew about this earlier, but to be honest, we could all see the writing on the wall (pun very much intended).

I'm really starting to wonder if this is why they branched out to ADL for the 97 and X30

What incentives are available at the moment like?

(25 Sep 2019, 7:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote

What incentives are available at the moment like?

I'm not saying there is at the minute, but if there is a buyer and they want to move operations to somewhere closer to the customers, I can imagine local government might want to offer grants or tax breaks to incentivise them to say and support the local economy.

(25 Sep 2019, 7:14 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

I'm not saying there is at the minute, but if there is a buyer and they want to move operations to somewhere closer to the customers, I can imagine local government might want to offer grants or tax breaks to incentivise them to say and support the local economy.

Which local government? One in NI or elsewhere?

(25 Sep 2019, 8:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Which local government? One in NI or elsewhere?

NI I would imagine, I'm not really up on my Northern Irish politics to be honest so I don't know how it works over there.

(25 Sep 2019, 8:31 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

NI I would imagine, I'm not really up on my Northern Irish politics to be honest so I don't know how it works over there.

Ah right.

Wasnt sure whether you meant over there or not.

Not sure there's really a government over there at the moment. Power sharing seems a shambles and after the energy scandal of a few years back, not sure how much money there is for tax breaks and the like.

(25 Sep 2019, 8:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Ah right.

Wasnt sure whether you meant over there or not.

Not sure there's really a government over there at the moment. Power sharing seems a shambles and after the energy scandal of a few years back, not sure how much money there is for tax breaks and the like.

There's not really much of a government anywhere in the UK at the minute!

I'm sure that any tax break they give would be less costly than having to support an extra 1400 unemployed workers!

(25 Sep 2019, 8:42 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

There's not really much of a government anywhere in the UK at the minute!

I'm sure that any tax break they give would be less costly than having to support an extra 1400 unemployed workers!

I'd imagine the stack of Michelin, H&W and Bombardier workers are already at the front of the queue!

(25 Sep 2019, 8:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote

I'd imagine the stack of Michelin, H&W and Bombardier workers are already at the front of the queue!

Hence why I said extra " alt="" title="">

Plus, I'd imagine they're more likely to help out Wright since they are getting far more coverage because they made the 'Boris Bus', and as we all know politics isn't about what makes sense, it's about what makes politicians look good!

I would imagine the prices on the enviro product range has shot up today.

Wonder if the Wrightbus administration affects developments in First UK Bus. Fleets heavily dependant in Wright now with potentially limited mechanical/parts support won’t be attractive to buyers.

Apparently Boris has pledged to help Wrightbus, I doubt that means nationalising them considering it's a conservative government

"We have been working on it the whole time," he told BBC News NI.

"You may know that the negotiations got very close, there was a particular problem that came up to do with the ownership of the land.

"We want to sort it out, we are going to do what we can to help."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49837250

(27 Sep 2019, 11:15 am)streetdeckfan wrote

Apparently Boris has pledged to help Wrightbus, I doubt that means nationalising them considering it's a conservative government

"We have been working on it the whole time," he told BBC News NI.

"You may know that the negotiations got very close, there was a particular problem that came up to do with the ownership of the land.

"We want to sort it out, we are going to do what we can to help."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49837250

Um, yeah, we know about that problem^^^

A bit more about those problems. Ex rmoyees are, understandably, angry.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/wr...-1-9087113

(27 Sep 2019, 3:33 pm)BusLoverMum wrote A bit more about those problems. Ex rmoyees are, understandably, angry.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/wr...-1-9087113

Ex Employees protested outside the Green Pastures Church today.

It's not often I side with the employees, but in this situation it's impossible to side with the Wrightbus.

One brings up a very valid point, one which definitely needs answered

“How could he donate to the church without looking after the workforce and keeping the company going? That’s what we want answered,”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/29/former-wrightbus-staff-hold-protest-after-1200-job-losses

(29 Sep 2019, 1:15 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

Ex Employees protested outside the Green Pastures Church today.

It's not often I side with the employees, but in this situation it's impossible to side with the Wrightbus.

One brings up a very valid point, one which definitely needs answered

“How could he donate to the church without looking after the workforce and keeping the company going? That’s what we want answered,”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/29/former-wrightbus-staff-hold-protest-after-1200-job-losses

Yet the Wright family assert that they did nothing wrong. There's everything wrong with diverting money from the  business if the business can't remain viable without that money. There's even more with diverting the money then expecting to be rescued.

(29 Sep 2019, 2:30 pm)BusLoverMum wrote

Yet the Wright family assert that they did nothing wrong. There's everything wrong with diverting money from the  business if the business can't remain viable without that money. There's even more with diverting the money then expecting to be rescued.

When a business is making profit and you donate over 4 million to your own church, which causes the business to make a loss, there has to be some law to prevent that!

Missed this yesterday.
Apparently there are 2 bidders for Wrightbus, one from England and one from the US.

I would have thought ADL might be interested, but they're Scottish not English and owned by the Canadians not the Americans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49901167