Well I have just worked something else out. If the 311 doesn't serve High Farm, the PVR will be 8x instead of 9x although a bit tight.

310:
North Shields: 00:00
Newcastle: 00:47
Newcastle: 00:53
North Shields: 01:36

311:
Hadrian Park: 00:29
Newcastle: 00:57
Newcastle: 01:03
Hadrian Park: 01:26

(21 Dec 2019, 9:58 am)L469 YVK wrote From what I gather, the 309 will stay at every 15 minutes meaning the PVR will remain at 10 vehicles.

I can't see a 20 minute frequency on 310 & 311 working with a 15 minute frequency on the 309 - stand clashes in Haymarket Bus Station and a frequency that will actually be less than at present on the Haymarket/St Marys Place departures, with some gaps of 10 minutes rather than the current 7/8 minutes. If 309 also runs every 20 minutes, then there can be an even 6/6/7 minute headway from Haymarket.
I'm sure we'll find out early in the new year when Go North East put the timetables on line.

(21 Dec 2019, 10:34 pm)busmanT wrote I can't see a 20 minute frequency on 310 & 311 working with a 15 minute frequency on the 309 - stand clashes in Haymarket Bus Station and a frequency that will actually be less than at present on the Haymarket/St Marys Place departures, with some gaps of 10 minutes rather than the current 7/8 minutes. If 309 also runs every 20 minutes, then there can be an even 6/6/7 minute headway from Haymarket.
I'm sure we'll find out early in the new year when Go North East put the timetables on line.

They wouldn't reduce the 309 to every 20 mins as that would give passengers away to the 308 which is a no no. The changes seem legit from what I hear as 2x drivers have told me. If they wanted to avoid clashes, they could move the 310 / 311 to Stand N and maybe put the Q3 Great Park bound journeys at M.

(21 Dec 2019, 11:03 pm)L469 YVK wrote They wouldn't reduce the 309 to every 20 mins as that would give passengers away to the 308 which is a no no. The changes seem legit from what I hear as 2x drivers have told me. If they wanted to avoid clashes, they could move the 310 / 311 to Stand N and maybe put the Q3 Great Park bound journeys at M.

The council have a say in which buses go where, it's their bus station.

It's a nightmare trying to do anything with bus stations.

Would be better to just reduce the frequency (1 or 2 an hour) and nab one of the occasional services stands for it, since its only during daytime.

(21 Dec 2019, 11:08 pm)Jamie M wrote The council have a say in which buses go where, it's their bus station.

It's a nightmare trying to do anything with bus stations.

Would be better to just reduce the frequency (1 or 2 an hour) and nab one of the occasional services stands for it, since its only during daytime.

Even though the 310/311 will most likely offer a combined 10 minute frequency, I can't see GNE reducing the 309 to every 20 minutes from every 15 minutes. The 309 has grown to the extent now that it doesn't exactly need to provide a combined frequency with another service (unless Arriva give the 308 the proper 'Sapphire' treatment with brand new buses which is unlikely). 

The stand allocations could perhaps change to the following if needs be:
- Stand M: 309, 51, 51A, X20
- Stand N: 310/311

The only way the 309 will most likely continue to provide a combined frequency will be during the evenings and on Sundays.

(21 Dec 2019, 11:08 pm)Jamie M wrote The council have a say in which buses go where, it's their bus station.

It's a nightmare trying to do anything with bus stations.

Would be better to just reduce the frequency (1 or 2 an hour) and nab one of the occasional services stands for it, since its only during daytime.

No way would they reduce the frequency of the 309. That and the 308 are by the far the busiest 2 buses along the coast road plus it would be ridiculous having a bus route branded Cobalt + Coast where 3 / 9 buses actually serve Cobalt or the Coast. It wouldn't surprise me if the 311 is badly run so it's delibrately dead so they can get arid of it all together. The 58 the majority of the time is dead along there now anyway as there's too many buses for demand 28 / 51 / 52 / 58 (311) / 306 / 308 / 309 / 310 / X39 (Peaks) / X6 (Peaks)

(22 Dec 2019, 12:11 pm)Storx wrote No way would they reduce the frequency of the 309. That and the 308 are by the far the busiest 2 buses along the coast road plus it would be ridiculous having a bus route branded Cobalt + Coast where 3 / 9 buses actually serve Cobalt or the Coast. It wouldn't surprise me if the 311 is badly run so it's delibrately dead so they can get arid of it all together. The 58 the majority of the time is dead along there now anyway as there's too many buses for demand 28 / 51 / 52 / 58 (311) / 306 / 308 / 309 / 310 / X39 (Peaks) / X6 (Peaks)

Well, if the 310 / 311 don't interwork and the 311 doesn't serve High Farm, the layover times will be slightly tight although manageable. However, GNE going forward may decide to scrap the 311 and make passengers use the 40 / 41 to change onto the 309 / 310. The only thing being is that the evening 40/41 would need to be timed to coordinate with the 309 / 310.

(22 Dec 2019, 12:11 pm)Storx wrote No way would they reduce the frequency of the 309. That and the 308 are by the far the busiest 2 buses along the coast road plus it would be ridiculous having a bus route branded Cobalt + Coast where 3 / 9 buses actually serve Cobalt or the Coast. It wouldn't surprise me if the 311 is badly run so it's delibrately dead so they can get arid of it all together. The 58 the majority of the time is dead along there now anyway as there's too many buses for demand 28 / 51 / 52 / 58 (311) / 306 / 308 / 309 / 310 / X39 (Peaks) / X6 (Peaks)

So if the 57 is dead most of the time, then why not reduce the frequency of the 309, so that there are fewer overall services per hour? The 57 sits on top of the others at the moment, so providing an even headway on 309, 310 and 311 should spread Coast Road customers out between buses a bit better.

Not sure I’d agree with the comments suggesting that each and every bus is full. If anything, I’d say most buses on the Coast Road are lightly loaded because between Arriva and Go North East, both operators have flooded the market.


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(22 Dec 2019, 1:17 pm)Dan wrote So if the 57 is dead most of the time, then why not reduce the frequency of the 309, so that there are fewer overall services per hour? The 57 sits on top of the others at the moment, so providing an even headway on 309, 310 and 311 should spread Coast Road customers out between buses a bit better.

Not sure I’d agree with the comments suggesting that each and every bus is full. If anything, I’d say most buses on the Coast Road are lightly loaded because between Arriva and Go North East, both operators have flooded the market.


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Guess this confirms it is going every 20 minutes but I'd personally just see the 309 being a more core service as it's more than a Coast Road service with Cobalt / Whitley / Blyth and the same with the 310 having Meadowell and North Shields whereas the 57 (not 58 sorry) / 311 is just the Coast Road mainly and doesn't really serve anything extra so is just duplicating the other 2 for most the route apart from Hadrian Park.

Just seems a strange move to be more infrequent than the 306 and 308 but obviously I don't know the numbers and where the customers are coming from but I'd assume it's not between Blyth to Whitley as it's way over saturated having a 5/7 minute service to Newcastle and Blyth and I'd thought they'd struggle from Cobalt at peak times especially with the new Sage opening soon.

That's why

(22 Dec 2019, 1:17 pm)Dan wrote So if the 57 is dead most of the time, then why not reduce the frequency of the 309, so that there are fewer overall services per hour? The 57 sits on top of the others at the moment, so providing an even headway on 309, 310 and 311 should spread Coast Road customers out between buses a bit better.

Not sure I’d agree with the comments suggesting that each and every bus is full. If anything, I’d say most buses on the Coast Road are lightly loaded because between Arriva and Go North East, both operators have flooded the market.


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Well going by your thoughts, I've worked this out too that on a 20 minute frequency for all three services, the PVR would be 16 with the 309 and 310 interworking as shown below:

309/310 (PVR 13):
- North Shields (310): 00:56
- Newcastle (310): 01:43
- Newcastle (309): 01:50
- Blyth (309): 02:54
- Blyth (309): 03:07
- Newcastle (309): 04:16
- Newcastle (310): 04:23
- North Shields (310): 05:06

Therefore, the 309 / 310 could reliably interwork again with decent layover times at all terminus points. The 311 could then just operate Hadrian Park to Newcastle with a PVR of 3x with driver changeovers taking place in Hadrian Park.

(22 Dec 2019, 1:17 pm)Dan wrote So if the 57 is dead most of the time, then why not reduce the frequency of the 309, so that there are fewer overall services per hour? The 57 sits on top of the others at the moment, so providing an even headway on 309, 310 and 311 should spread Coast Road customers out between buses a bit better.

Not sure I’d agree with the comments suggesting that each and every bus is full. If anything, I’d say most buses on the Coast Road are lightly loaded because between Arriva and Go North East, both operators have flooded the market.


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Proves that the passenger numbers are low anyway, as they're cutting the 57, so it terminates at Newcastle and not Hadrian Park.

So every bus will every 20 minutes (combined every 5/6 mins)

Edit: Typo!

PVR's for the Cobalt and Coast on a 20 minute frequency would be:

309: 7 PVR
310: 5 PVR
311: 3 PVR


15 PVR, however, there's 17 branded buses, so can't seem them repainting 2 already.

(18 Dec 2019, 11:46 am)Stanleyone wrote Don’t know if true but cascades of the red kite (Streetlites) have been rumoured

I thought those Streetlites were heading to Deptford for the 35 though?

(22 Dec 2019, 1:47 pm)Michael wrote Proves that the passenger numbers are low anyway, as they're cutting the 57, so it terminates at Newcastle and not Hadrian Park.

So every bus will every 20 minutes (combined every 5/6 mins)

Edit: Typo!

PVR's for the Cobalt and Coast on a 20 minute frequency would be:

309: 7 PVR
310: 5 PVR
311: 3 PVR


15 PVR, however, there's 17 branded buses, so can't seem them repainting 2 already.

If the PVR of the 309 standalone on a 20 minute frequency was 7x, it would be like whacky races and I'm sure the Traffic Commissioner would have some choice words to say. If the 309 remains standalone, it would be a PVR of 8x but from what I can see, the most likely option will be to interwork it with service 310 (meaning a PVR of 13x) and keep the 311 standalone. Although the 309 / 310 going standalone since March has improved reliability, the cost implications have been quite significant. The 311 going standalone however shouldn't have too many cost implications as the PVR will only be 3x vehicles and it would most likely be a straight 4 hour driving stint at most.

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(22 Dec 2019, 2:02 pm)Michael wrote I thought those Streetlites were heading to Deptford for the 35 though?

I think Stanleyone meant another service. The Cobalt & Coast services will be keeping the B9TLs (as shown with 6110 now showing 311 on the black tagline).

(22 Dec 2019, 2:09 pm)L469 YVK wrote I think Stanleyone meant another service. The Cobalt & Coast services will be keeping the B9TLs (as shown with 6110 now showing 311 on the black tagline).

Ye, it would of been daft of them to remove the B9's so soon after a refurb.. but he was taking about the 6 and 12/12A, which is now confirmed for Citaro's.

(22 Dec 2019, 2:23 pm)Michael wrote Ye, it would of been daft of them to remove the B9's so soon after a refurb.. but he was taking about the 6 and 12/12A, which is now confirmed for Citaro's.

Fair enough. So if the Cobalt & Coast PVR drops to 16x vehicles, will 6099 still transfer across to Percy Main when 6084 becomes available to Deptford? The only logic I can see Percy Main having 3x spare B9TLs will be to also cover for the Coasters too.

I do hope with these changes though that with the 57 now being taken out the equation that a 15-20 minute combined frequency can be offered until at least 9.00 Mon-Sat between Newcastle and Battle Hill.

Theres no way to find out until the changes are posted by GNE themselves

The Stanley changes look interesting. Clearly, M6 and M8 are truncated to Stanley and Metrocentre only. It's a shame as the M8 was a cleaner way of travelling between Annfield Plain and the Metrocentre than the 6. I'm guessing the 32 will finish an hour earlier in the afternoon than the M8 does with its Annfield Plain extension due to lower afternoon passenger numbers.

New 32 appears to be the M8 extension to Annfield Plain made stand alone. Unless theres something I'm missing, it would be probably more economical to send every second 16 into Fines Park (buses can do the route). Given the 16 in both directions stands a Stanley for 5 minutes, there' scope to do this.

The M6 extension to Lanchester reverts to being the 30. As this is hourly, this leaves Quaking Houses at one bus per hour for first time in years. Again, I may be missing something.

If M7 continues to be an East Stanley only service, the numbering becomes anomalous.

I hope the unreliability of the 6 is sorted out.

One change that has not happened and I'd have liked to have seen is it being the X31 and not the X30 continue hourly to Consett. The X31 makes more sense from a commuting point of view on accessing Gateshead and the Team Valley.from Annfield Plain. The two X32 journeys in each direction should definitely be extended, which would have restored a direct link between Consett and the southern end of the Team Valley lost with the 2007 withdrawal of the 934.

I'm hoping also the short 6 on a morning from Flint Hill to Stanley has its guaranteed link with the 7.10 am X32 restored. That was personally very useful to me.

(22 Dec 2019, 11:17 pm)DH9 wrote The Stanley changes look interesting. Clearly, M6 and M8 are truncated to Stanley and Metrocentre only. It's a shame as the M8 was a cleaner way of travelling between Annfield Plain and the Metrocentre than the 6. I'm guessing the 32 will finish an hour earlier in the afternoon than the M8 does with its Annfield Plain extension due to lower afternoon passenger numbers.

New 32 appears to be the M8 extension to Annfield Plain made stand alone. Unless theres something I'm missing, it would be probably more economical to send every second 16 into Fines Park (buses can do the route). Given the 16 in both directions stands a Stanley for 5 minutes, there' scope to do this.

The M6 extension to Lanchester reverts to being the 30. As this is hourly, this leaves Quaking Houses at one bus per hour for first time in years. Again, I may be missing something.

If M7 continues to be an East Stanley only service, the numbering becomes anomalous.

I hope the unreliability of the 6 is sorted out.

One change that has not happened and I'd have liked to have seen is it being the X31 and not the X30 continue hourly to Consett. The X31 makes more sense from a commuting point of view on accessing Gateshead and the Team Valley.from Annfield Plain. The two X32 journeys in each direction should definitely be extended, which would have restored a direct link between Consett and the southern end of the Team Valley lost with the 2007 withdrawal of the 934.

I'm hoping also the short 6 on a morning from Flint Hill to Stanley has its guaranteed link with the 7.10 am X32 restored. That was personally very useful to me.

Why X31 to consett when you already have that section served by the X70 and X71?

(22 Dec 2019, 11:17 pm)DH9 wrote The Stanley changes look interesting.  Clearly, M6 and M8 are truncated to Stanley and Metrocentre only.  It's a shame as the M8 was a cleaner way of travelling between Annfield Plain and the Metrocentre than the 6.  I'm guessing the 32 will finish an hour earlier in the afternoon than the M8 does with its Annfield Plain extension due to lower afternoon passenger numbers.

New 32 appears to be the M8 extension to Annfield Plain made stand alone.  Unless theres something I'm missing, it would be probably more economical to send every second 16 into Fines Park (buses can do the route).  Given the 16 in both directions stands a Stanley for 5 minutes, there' scope to do this.

The M6 extension to Lanchester reverts to being the 30.  As this is hourly, this leaves Quaking Houses at one bus per hour for first time in years.  Again, I may be missing something.

If M7 continues to be an East Stanley only service, the numbering becomes anomalous.

I hope the unreliability of the 6 is sorted out.

One change that has not happened and I'd have liked to have seen is it being the X31 and not the X30 continue hourly to Consett.  The X31 makes more sense from a commuting point of view on accessing Gateshead and the Team Valley.from Annfield Plain.  The two X32 journeys in each direction should definitely be extended, which would have restored a direct link between Consett and the southern end of the Team Valley lost with the 2007 withdrawal of the 934.

I'm hoping also the short 6 on a morning from Flint Hill to Stanley has its guaranteed link with the 7.10 am X32 restored.  That was personally very useful to me.

The X30 goes to Consett for driver changovers

The X31 interworks with services that go they anyway

(23 Dec 2019, 12:07 am)Jamie M wrote Why X31 to consett when you already have that section served by the X70 and X71?

Because sending X31 rather than the X30 through to Consett would restore direct links to Gatedshead and Team Valley to Annfield Plain, New Kyo and Catchgate.

That's infinitely more useful than Whickham and Dunston, links already covered by service 6.

(22 Dec 2019, 11:17 pm)DH9 wrote The Stanley changes look interesting.  Clearly, M6 and M8 are truncated to Stanley and Metrocentre only.  It's a shame as the M8 was a cleaner way of travelling between Annfield Plain and the Metrocentre than the 6.  I'm guessing the 32 will finish an hour earlier in the afternoon than the M8 does with its Annfield Plain extension due to lower afternoon passenger numbers.

New 32 appears to be the M8 extension to Annfield Plain made stand alone.  Unless theres something I'm missing, it would be probably more economical to send every second 16 into Fines Park (buses can do the route).  Given the 16 in both directions stands a Stanley for 5 minutes, there' scope to do this.

The M6 extension to Lanchester reverts to being the 30.  As this is hourly, this leaves Quaking Houses at one bus per hour for first time in years.  Again, I may be missing something.

If M7 continues to be an East Stanley only service, the numbering becomes anomalous.

I hope the unreliability of the 6 is sorted out.

One change that has not happened and I'd have liked to have seen is it being the X31 and not the X30 continue hourly to Consett.  The X31 makes more sense from a commuting point of view on accessing Gateshead and the Team Valley.from Annfield Plain.  The two X32 journeys in each direction should definitely be extended, which would have restored a direct link between Consett and the southern end of the Team Valley lost with the 2007 withdrawal of the 934.

I'm hoping also the short 6 on a morning from Flint Hill to Stanley has its guaranteed link with the 7.10 am X32 restored.  That was personally very useful to me.

30 will continue as is now, 1 hourly to Lanchester and 1 hourly to Quaking Houses, 31 will be the current M7 and 32 will be the current M8 all interworking. X31 won’t replace the X30 simply because of the driver change overs at Consett, X30 and X70/X71 arrive within minutes of each other at Sunniside I’d anyone wants Gateshead from the places you mentioned, in my opinion not that many make the connection (if any) most I would think will catch the 16 and wait the 7/8 mins at Stanley.

(23 Dec 2019, 5:04 am)Stanleyone wrote 30 will continue as is now, 1 hourly to Lanchester and 1 hourly to Quaking Houses, 31 will be the current M7 and 32 will be the current M8 all interworking. X31 won’t replace the X30 simply because of the driver change overs at Consett, X30 and X70/X71 arrive within minutes of each other at Sunniside I’d anyone wants Gateshead from the places you mentioned, in my opinion not that many make the connection (if any) most I would think will catch the 16 and wait the 7/8 mins at Stanley.

Cheer and thanks for clearing it all up.

The discussion was focussing upon the 309 / 310 / 311 changes and the Stanley changes were left a little neglected.   That's been rectified now.

I have used the coincidence in timings between X30 and X70/71 to my advantage in the past at Sunniside though it just takes either to be slightly late for that connection to fail.

Does anyone know what the changes is to the 8?, i use this regular to get to work.

Any Idea about 4,8 and 50.
As a Washington lad any major Changes would be good to know about

Heard from a driver today that with the X21 being extended to West, there will be no waiting time in Bishop anymore, I guess some of the drivers won't be pleased as they won't have time for a smoke!

I guess that also means that the northbound services will become even more unreliable as they won't have that 10-20 minute buffer anymore

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(24 Dec 2019, 12:54 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Any Idea about 4,8 and 50.
As a Washington lad any major Changes would be good to know about

I'm sure Go North East will publish them all in good time once New Year is out the way.

(24 Dec 2019, 12:54 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Any Idea about 4,8 and 50.
As a Washington lad any major Changes would be good to know about

4: Operating between Houghton-Le-Spring, The Broadway and Heworth Interchange given service number 4 / effective from 26 January 2020. To amend Timetable.

8: Operating between Stanley, Bus Station and Sunderland, Park Lane Interchange given service number 8 / 8A effective from 26 January 2020. To amend Timetable.

50: Operating between Durham Bus Station and South Shields Interchange given service number 50 / 50A effective from 26 January 2020. To amend Timetable.


https://bustimes.org/licences/PB0003954

Just click on the service you want.

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(24 Dec 2019, 3:19 pm)S813 FVK wrote I'm sure Go North East will publish them all in good time once New Year is out the way.

Hopefully in the next few days.

(26 Dec 2019, 1:07 pm)Michael wrote Hopefully in the next few days.

As an FYI to the above: the basic format timetables are now on the GNE website.

M7 back to Metrocentre, partially replacing the 197 around Whickham.

Looks like the 21, will still run every 7 minutes between Newcastle and Chester, but only half a hour between Chester and Durham, working with the X21 -


Both from Chester:

21: 50 and 20
X21 - 43 58 13 28


So it provides a service of every 7/8 mins, between Chester and Durham... 13, 20, 28, 43, 50 and 58