(11 Mar 2020, 1:07 pm)tyresmoke wrote To put a real world figure in play, in the Tees Valley the combined authority (5 councils) come together and each pass is reimbursed at a rate of 50% of the services’ average fare, though I know due to their size an annual figure is agreed for both Arriva & Stagecoach regardless of how many they accept. At Stagecarriage we were getting not far north of £1 per pass on the X8. NYCC is widely known to pay around 20-25% of the average fare, which I’m guessing on the 81 will be in the region of £2.50? Therefore they’re likely getting somewhere around 50-60p per pass scan on the 81 in North Yorkshire, so you can see that 6 or 7 concessions on the bus does not make money, the hour’s operating cost from Guisborough to Stokesley & back will be nowhere near being covered. Unfortunately that is the reality of operating in rural areas.
(11 Mar 2020, 1:07 pm)tyresmoke wrote To put a real world figure in play, in the Tees Valley the combined authority (5 councils) come together and each pass is reimbursed at a rate of 50% of the services’ average fare, though I know due to their size an annual figure is agreed for both Arriva & Stagecoach regardless of how many they accept. At Stagecarriage we were getting not far north of £1 per pass on the X8. NYCC is widely known to pay around 20-25% of the average fare, which I’m guessing on the 81 will be in the region of £2.50? Therefore they’re likely getting somewhere around 50-60p per pass scan on the 81 in North Yorkshire, so you can see that 6 or 7 concessions on the bus does not make money, the hour’s operating cost from Guisborough to Stokesley & back will be nowhere near being covered. Unfortunately that is the reality of operating in rural areas.Is that low rate responsible for the high fares in North Yorkshire? Whether it be Darlington to Richmond, Whitby to Scarborough, or even fares on other operators in the county (particularly Coastliner), fares seem much higher there than for equivalent journeys in the North East.
(11 Mar 2020, 1:15 pm)streetdeckfan wrote To be honest, 50% of the average fare is quite a bit more than I'd expect. I had in my mind that it would be a fixed rate per passenger regardless of the route (probably something around the 50p mark)
(11 Mar 2020, 2:54 pm)BoroLad wrote Is that low rate responsible for the high fares in North Yorkshire? Whether it be Darlington to Richmond, Whitby to Scarborough, or even fares on other operators in the county (particularly Coastliner), fares seem much higher there than for equivalent journeys in the North East.
(11 Mar 2020, 3:06 pm)Andreos1 wrote The reason why single fares are so expensive perhaps?
(11 Mar 2020, 6:53 pm)scanialover wrote It's just as Tyresmoke said, in a nutshell. The reimbursement from the concessionary fare schene, irregardless of local authority is quite frankly scandalous ! I mean just look at a journey like Guisborough to Stokesley and return. Not sure of the actual fare, let's say a fiver and the operator gets back just a fraction of this? A no-brainer why that service was withdrawn but then consider those that are still operating where the revenue potential isn't anything like it should be.They do have photos on but they're not the biggest or clearest and one cauliflower perm looks much like the next.
Then, not taking anything away from our genuine concessionary pass users, but just how many of these passes are being fraudulently used ? Drivers have no way of being able to check and revenue inspectors are few and far between; non-existent from Arriva, only marginally better on Stagecoach, can't comment on GNE as I'm not from that area but I've never seen one on the X9/10.
So here is another revenue stream that is been missed and begs that question why so? Are the operators making enough money to dispense with revenue protection?
(11 Mar 2020, 6:53 pm)scanialover wrote It's just as Tyresmoke said, in a nutshell. The reimbursement from the concessionary fare schene, irregardless of local authority is quite frankly scandalous ! I mean just look at a journey like Guisborough to Stokesley and return. Not sure of the actual fare, let's say a fiver and the operator gets back just a fraction of this? A no-brainer why that service was withdrawn but then consider those that are still operating where the revenue potential isn't anything like it should be.
Then, not taking anything away from our genuine concessionary pass users, but just how many of these passes are being fraudulently used ? Drivers have no way of being able to check and revenue inspectors are few and far between; non-existent from Arriva, only marginally better on Stagecoach, can't comment on GNE as I'm not from that area but I've never seen one on the X9/10.
So here is another revenue stream that is been missed and begs that question why so? Are the operators making enough money to dispense with revenue protection?
(11 Mar 2020, 4:26 pm)streetdeckfan wrote As I've said before, I think the reason single fares are so expensive is because they can be. Things are always more expensive when only buying one. People who rely on the bus to get to work are probably buying a day/week ticket, so it's just the people who use the bus as a one off that are affected.
I'm not saying it's right, but if you don't 'overcharge' the one off passengers then you have to increase the price for the regular passengers.
In Bishop Auckland (and I'm sure other places are the same) everyone and their dog seems to have a concessionary pass, whether or not they're using their own pass is another question! (and knowing some of the people, I doubt they are)
(11 Mar 2020, 8:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The only time I've ever seen an Arriva inspector was during the strikes. He was from Northumbria and showing a Yorkshire driver the X46 and 6 routes (which neither of them knew!).
I was on the bus when he got assaulted because he caught someone using someone else's concessionary pass, even though it was free travel anyway!
I used to see GNE inspectors quite regularly but I haven't seen one for about 4 years now.
tay with. your vehicle and contact the depot / police. What with? Arriva won't invest in radios (a bit like inspectors) and I would imagine Stagecoach aren't far behind.
(11 Mar 2020, 8:45 pm)scanialover wrote Exactly what I said. The lack of revenue protection afforded our operators is nothing short of criminal and our neredowells know so! Look at those pitiful notices in the cabs of Arriva vehicles? "In case of assault......!!! Dear me, just what happens?
(13 Mar 2020, 8:32 am)tvd wrote A few years ago Peter Shipp (of EYMS) did an interview saying that bus services were at risk because the ENCTS passes werent paying enough to the operators. You could have a bus with a lot of pensioners on it which was unsustainable because it was not making enough money.
As far as I know, he's the only bus company boss who has really spoken out publicly in criticism of the scheme. But we all have seen in recent years how services have been trimmed back each time the timetable changes come into force.
It really should be that the ENCTS passholders are charged a small amount per use of the pass, say £1 or even 50p per journey. Not to replace what the councils pay, but to help keep more buses on the road. You could even have those payments ring fenced for use to pay for evening services, or those which require subsidies and wouldnt otherwise run.
That way the pensioner gets very cheap travel but values their pass, and is helping pay a little towards more buses on the road which can of course benefit all of us.
(13 Mar 2020, 7:47 pm)scanialover wrote Being reading just how Stagecoach, in other parts of the country are being very pro-actice in doing what they can to help manage the risk / threat from the Corona virus: I would imagine GNE are much though the same, there always seems to be a high standard of cleanliness and hygiene on their vehicles. But then, yes I know this is the Arriva forum, just what about them and the Corona stuff? I might be wrong but I don't see a cleaning regime as rigourous as the other twoDoesn't matter too much how often a bus is cleaned. It only takes one infected person to pass it on.
(13 Mar 2020, 11:45 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'm a firm believer in making the ENCTS means tested, just like any other benefit (which is exactly what it is, and it should be treated as such)
People, like my grandfather, who can very much afford to travel by bus should have to pay just like the rest of us. Likewise, the ENCTS should be opened up to those who truly can't afford to travel by bus
I get there are other reasons for having the ENCTS other than the cost of buses (ie. stopping loneliness, getting people out the house etc.) but I think the system as it is now is just inherently unfair
As you've probably heard me say before, I'm not a fan of free things as nothing is truly free, but if you're going to give people free travel, at least give it to those that can't afford to pay for it themselves
(13 Mar 2020, 7:47 pm)scanialover wrote Being reading just how Stagecoach, in other parts of the country are being very pro-actice in doing what they can to help manage the risk / threat from the Corona virus: I would imagine GNE are much though the same, there always seems to be a high standard of cleanliness and hygiene on their vehicles. But then, yes I know this is the Arriva forum, just what about them and the Corona stuff? I might be wrong but I don't see a cleaning regime as rigourous as the other two
(14 Mar 2020, 12:34 am)omnicity4659 wrote https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/coronavirus/Must admit, I did have a good giggle at "Bus and coach operators have extensive cleaning regimes that maintain high levels of hygiene"
(13 Mar 2020, 8:32 am)tvd wrote A few years ago Peter Shipp (of EYMS) did an interview saying that bus services were at risk because the ENCTS passes werent paying enough to the operators. You could have a bus with a lot of pensioners on it which was unsustainable because it was not making enough money.
As far as I know, he's the only bus company boss who has really spoken out publicly in criticism of the scheme. But we all have seen in recent years how services have been trimmed back each time the timetable changes come into force.
It really should be that the ENCTS passholders are charged a small amount per use of the pass, say £1 or even 50p per journey. Not to replace what the councils pay, but to help keep more buses on the road. You could even have those payments ring fenced for use to pay for evening services, or those which require subsidies and wouldnt otherwise run.
That way the pensioner gets very cheap travel but values their pass, and is helping pay a little towards more buses on the road which can of course benefit all of us.
(14 Mar 2020, 2:13 am)Cock Robin wrote Paul Thompson of Leven Valley said a similar thing. Passengers weren't even allowed to make a voluntary contribution if they so desired.
(14 Mar 2020, 12:42 pm)cbma06 wrote Maybe there’s a simpler explanation why the government are allowing pensioners to have free travel, maybe what was said in the budget a few years ago and what the pensioners are now had to put up through in the 1940’s, as the younger generation doesn’t realise unless a WW3 arrives, it’s called giving something back
Sent from my iPhone usin
(14 Mar 2020, 12:34 am)omnicity4659 wrote https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/coronavirus/Didn't even see basic levels of hygiene on the ALX400 on our X12, this afternoon.
(14 Mar 2020, 2:55 pm)James101 wrote Incredibly few people who were adults in the 1940s was will still be using public transport. It’s generous to think politicians are thinking of anything beyond their own gain when they were introducing or maintaining ENCTS. Look at the backlash when the over 75’s TV licence was threatened - which was much more affordable for most pensioners. Changing ENCTS would be a PR disaster for the government, so it rumbles on as services are continually withdrawn - see the 81 in Redcar.
