(17 Apr 2020, 4:16 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Issue with that is it may then be faster to take the X21 then the X66 which would then defeat the purpose of the X22.
There's not much difference in it as it is (as long as you get lucky with the connections)

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Faster for who on the X21/X66? 
The people from Langley Park? Witton Gilbert? Sacriston? Chester? Birtley? Or just those getting on/off in Durham city centre?

(17 Apr 2020, 4:20 pm)Andreos1 wrote Faster for who on the X21/X66? 
The people from Langley Park? Witton Gilbert? Sacriston? Chester? Birtley? Or just those getting on/off in Durham city centre?

Since I don't have a copy of the current X22 timetable saved and GNE have decided to remove it from their website I can't get the exact timings, but from memory it takes about 50 minutes to get from Durham to Metrocentre on the X22, and on the X21 and X66 (if you get lucky) it takes about an hour. So that's only 10 minutes difference.

From CLS, it takes about half an hour on the X22 and 45 minutes on the X21/X66, so if you're travelling from south of Plawsworth it'll be faster X21/X66. And since the X22 would then no longer serve Fram or Pity Me, they would lose a direct connection to Metrocentre.

Obviously with the part north of Plawsworth being unchanged, the X22 would continue to be faster, although with the X21 and X66 being more frequent, depending on when you're leaving it may be faster up to CLS.

The 14 may well be combined with an express service when this is all over, just not the X22. Who knows when it'll happen now though.

(17 Apr 2020, 5:02 pm)deanmachine wrote The 14 may well be combined with an express service when this is all over, just not the X22. Who knows when it'll happen now though.

I feel like at this point the 14 may as well be combined with the 21 since it's already been, for the most part any way, replaced by the X21.

(17 Apr 2020, 4:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote Borne out of the discussion in the GNE latest thread and the will it/won't it 14/X22 conversation, I started to think about merging the two.

X22 as it is from Metrocentre to Plawsworth Red Lion - Sacriston Cross Roads - Fyndoune - current 13 route to Durham - Nevilles Cross - fast to Langley Park via A167/A691 and Witton Gilbert.
13 will no longer operate. 

14 - to continue current route and frequency. 

All connections maintained and new options opened up. 
I've not played about with timetables just yet.

A slightly different take that I've just thought of:

13 - remain as is
14 - withdrawn
21 - from Plawsworth divert via Nettlesworth and Scriston rather than A167 & Pity Me to reach Uni Hospital

Cons to my suggestions are:
the loss of a link to the Arnison Centre from Sacriston etc and leaving Kimblesworth with no bus.
Reduction in services between Framwellgate Moor and Plawsworth.

Realistically the X22 & X88 could be interworked no problem at all really on a Saturday at least

Might do the 14 what they did to the 15,but cant really comment as im not from the area

(17 Apr 2020, 4:37 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Since I don't have a copy of the current X22 timetable saved and GNE have decided to remove it from their website I can't get the exact timings, but from memory it takes about 50 minutes to get from Durham to Metrocentre on the X22, and on the X21 and X66 (if you get lucky) it takes about an hour. So that's only 10 minutes difference.

From CLS, it takes about half an hour on the X22 and 45 minutes on the X21/X66, so if you're travelling from south of Plawsworth it'll be faster X21/X66. And since the X22 would then no longer serve Fram or Pity Me, they would lose a direct connection to Metrocentre.

Obviously with the part north of Plawsworth being unchanged, the X22 would continue to be faster, although with the X21 and X66 being more frequent, depending on when you're leaving it may be faster up to CLS.

Yep, pre CV, it was nice to get the X22 but if I wasn't ready at the right point of the hour, I wouldn't go out of my way for it. (almost definitely why Arriva's X24 died a death, being only every other hour - I didn't even go out of my way to link to it from deepest arrivaland)

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(17 Apr 2020, 6:42 pm)Jimmi wrote A slightly different take that I've just thought of:

13 - remain as is
14 - withdrawn
21 - from Plawsworth divert via Nettlesworth and Scriston rather than A167 & Pity Me to reach Uni Hospital

Cons to my suggestions are:
the loss of a link to the Arnison Centre from Sacriston etc and leaving Kimblesworth with no bus.
Reduction in services between Framwellgate Moor and Plawsworth.

Realistically the X22 & X88 could be interworked no problem at all really on a Saturday at least

There's always a decent crowd waiting for the 14 both ways at Arnison.

(17 Apr 2020, 4:37 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Since I don't have a copy of the current X22 timetable saved and GNE have decided to remove it from their website I can't get the exact timings, but from memory it takes about 50 minutes to get from Durham to Metrocentre on the X22, and on the X21 and X66 (if you get lucky) it takes about an hour. So that's only 10 minutes difference.

From CLS, it takes about half an hour on the X22 and 45 minutes on the X21/X66, so if you're travelling from south of Plawsworth it'll be faster X21/X66. And since the X22 would then no longer serve Fram or Pity Me, they would lose a direct connection to Metrocentre.

Obviously with the part north of Plawsworth being unchanged, the X22 would continue to be faster, although with the X21 and X66 being more frequent, depending on when you're leaving it may be faster up to CLS.

To be honest, I forgot about the Pity Me/Fram bit.
However, I would argue that mile or so is more than adequately covered with the 21 and X21. I obviously don't have passenger data, but from experience I would think the X22 is the least used of the current Tyneside bound services on this stretch.

(18 Apr 2020, 10:03 am)Andreos1 wrote To be honest, I forgot about the Pity Me/Fram bit.
However, I would argue that mile or so is more than adequately covered with the 21 and X21. I obviously don't have passenger data, but from experience I would think the X22 is the least used of the current Tyneside bound services on this stretch.

From my experience it's the same, once it gets past Birtley there's usually no bugger left!

Very few people seem to get it from Durham either, from what I've seen people just use it when a 21 isn't due

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(18 Apr 2020, 10:07 am)streetdeckfan wrote From my experience it's the same, once it gets past Birtley there's usually no bugger left!

Very few people seem to get it from Durham either, from what I've seen people just use it when a 21 isn't due

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Hence some of the thinking in my suggestion. 

It's weak south of Birtley/Chester and I think the changes could assist in increasing revenues for very little additional outlay and see possible cost savings at the same time.

(18 Apr 2020, 10:07 am)streetdeckfan wrote From my experience it's the same, once it gets past Birtley there's usually no bugger left!

Very few people seem to get it from Durham either, from what I've seen people just use it when a 21 isn't due

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Bulk of loadings is Chester to Metro, it does pick up from Durham but only really on the first two trips of the day I'd say and traffic on the X22 is rather one way, to Metro on a morning and back in the afternoon.

A few suggestions for some services in Teesside which could work if they wanted a bigger presence there.  

X 7 Middlesbrough - Teesside Park - Stockton - North Tees Hospital-  Stillington - Sedgefield    replacing the X8 and no one currently operates to stillington as far as I know.  


Service 20 Middlesbrough - Stockton - Teesside Airport - Darlington - Bishop Auckland   

32 Teesside Park - Stockton - Norton - Wolviston - Billingham.   

33 Port Clarence ( Transporter) - Billingham-  Wolviston - North Tees Hospital - Stockton   

Service 51 Billingham - Stockton- Yarm - Middlesbrough - Parkway  Centre.  

65 Middlesbrough - Acklam - Parkway Centre - Guisbrough   

82 Saltburn - Redcar - Kirkleatham - Guisbrough.    

X 65 Middlesbrough - Park End - Kirkleatham - Redcar- Saltburn - Whitby

(18 Apr 2020, 6:19 pm)col87 wrote A few suggestions for some services in Teesside which could work if they wanted a bigger presence there.  

X 7 Middlesbrough - Teesside Park - Stockton - North Tees Hospital-  Stillington - Sedgefield    replacing the X8 and no one currently operates to stillington as far as I know.  


Service 20 Middlesbrough - Stockton - Teesside Airport - Darlington - Bishop Auckland   

32 Teesside Park - Stockton - Norton - Wolviston - Billingham.   

33 Port Clarence ( Transporter) - Billingham-  Wolviston - North Tees Hospital - Stockton   

Service 51 Billingham - Stockton- Yarm - Middlesbrough - Parkway  Centre.  

65 Middlesbrough - Acklam - Parkway Centre - Guisbrough   

82 Saltburn - Redcar - Kirkleatham - Guisbrough.    

X 65 Middlesbrough - Park End - Kirkleatham - Redcar- Saltburn - Whitby

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(18 Apr 2020, 6:20 pm)cbma06 wrote


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What's wrong with them some of them could work

(18 Apr 2020, 6:49 pm)col87 wrote What's wrong with them some of them could work

GNE are not going to enter other bus companies territories, areas, especially in Teesside.


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(18 Apr 2020, 6:52 pm)cbma06 wrote GNE are not going to enter other bus companies territories, areas, especially in Teesside.

Which is why I put if they did decide. Anyway nobody knows what will happen in the next few years all it takes is a change of management and Go North East could decide to.  None of them routes I put are in direct competition with an other company either them routes are where they is currently little to no services there.    

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One I would suggest is some journeys on service X10 to extend to Redcar to attempt to grow demand. This would also allow Redcar to have access to a bus to Stockton, Dalton Park & Newcastle...

(22 Apr 2020, 11:57 am)S830OFT wrote One I would suggest is some journeys on service X10 to extend to Redcar to attempt to grow demand. This would also allow Redcar to have access to a bus to Stockton, Dalton Park & Newcastle...

As much as new links would be provided, I'm not sure it would be successful.

There is already a 15 minute express service between Middlesbrough and Redcar.

Whilst competition is encouraged by all, bus operators are also realistic. You don't see many operators competing at such an obvious and broad level anymore, purely because there is no appetite to do so (unless the service they intend to compete with is absolutely useless or not catering to the demand) as they are all acutely aware that the 'retaliation' could be more severe somewhere else.

The last time GNE competed with Arriva (OK1) was because Arriva were literally milking the 1/1B corridor and we're not catering to the demand. It didn't work for GNE as the reaction was immediate.

I would expect a similar type of response if the X10 was extended to Redcar, but not necessarily in the same place.

(22 Apr 2020, 11:57 am)S830OFT wrote One I would suggest is some journeys on service X10 to extend to Redcar to attempt to grow demand. This would also allow Redcar to have access to a bus to Stockton, Dalton Park & Newcastle...

That wouldn't work though it would take far to long and mess the X9 up as well.  A service from Saltburn to Stockton via Redcar and Teesside Park could work though

A few more suggestions.  

X67 Sunderland Interchange - Washington - Metro centre.  

X13 Sunderland Interchange - Seaham - Dalton Park - Easington - A19 - Billingham- Middlesbrough.   

X70 Darlington -  Newton Aycliffe-  Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook - Chester Le Street - Gateshead - Newcastle 

X8. Hartlepool - Hart Station - Hordon - Easington Village - Dalton Park - Seaham.

(26 Apr 2020, 6:41 pm)col87 wrote A few more suggestions.  

X67 Sunderland Interchange - Washington - Metro centre.  

X13 Sunderland Interchange - Seaham - Dalton Park - Easington - A19 - Billingham- Middlesbrough.   

X70 Darlington -  Newton Aycliffe-  Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook - Chester Le Street - Gateshead - Newcastle 

X8. Hartlepool - Hart Station - Hordon - Easington Village - Dalton Park - Seaham.

The X70 I don't really see the point just an extremely long bus route which isn't express anywhere and totally out of GNE's operating area.

If you really want to take a punt and take on Arriva somewhere which you seem to want to you've got an X21 that terminates half hourly in Durham extend that south down to Darlington taking on the 7 but make it express.

So run it as something like Durham -> NON STOP -> Croxdale -> NON STOP -> Ferry Hill -> Clifton -> Rushyford -> Newton Aycliffe -> Aycliffe Village -> NON STOP -> North Road (Limited Stop) -> Darlington

I can't imagine Arriva being too happy with that though but you've gave a few communities there a faster bus route though and a new link to Newcastle for them. There's always people complaining about the 7 on Arriva's social media.

I do think a direct service to Newcastle from Crook (other than Weardale's) would be quite handy

I think I've suggested it before, but I'd quite like a Durham to Bishop via Crook service, so it'd follow the X46 to Crook, then the X1 to Bishop.

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(26 Apr 2020, 6:41 pm)col87 wrote A few more suggestions.  

X67 Sunderland Interchange - Washington - Metro centre.  

X13 Sunderland Interchange - Seaham - Dalton Park - Easington - A19 - Billingham- Middlesbrough.   

X70 Darlington -  Newton Aycliffe-  Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook - Chester Le Street - Gateshead - Newcastle 

X8. Hartlepool - Hart Station - Hordon - Easington Village - Dalton Park - Seaham.

Where do I start

There’s no demand from Sunderland to Metrocentre, we’re not in the 80’s no more

The original 723 route was carved up between Arriva and gne , Arriva got the Durham to Darlington and gne got the Durham to Newcastle section, so there’s no way gne going go back on there word

There be no demand for a direct service from your x8 suggestion

There’s no point in the x13, as you got the X6/x7 from Sunderland and change onto x9/x10 .

Gne are not going to enter Arriva territory and vice versa, as it won’t be good for profits for their shareholders.


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(26 Apr 2020, 7:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I do think a direct service to Newcastle from Crook (other than Weardale's) would be quite handy

I think I've suggested it before, but I'd quite like a Durham to Bishop via Crook service, so it'd follow the X46 to Crook, then the X1 to Bishop.

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Been plenty in the past. Never seemed to work for some reason. Not sure if it's because there's more frequent links either side of Durham or if there's not enough demand for through passengers. 

I think the United/Arriva X46 was the last incarnation and that ended about 20 years back. I don't think there has been a through service from Newcastle - Crook since.

(26 Apr 2020, 7:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote Been plenty in the past. Never seemed to work for some reason. Not sure if it's because there's more frequent links either side of Durham or if there's not enough demand for through passengers. 

I think the United/Arriva X46 was the last incarnation and that ended about 20 years back. I don't think there has been a through service from Newcastle - Crook since.

That's why I said it'd be handy, not that it would be viable

I know Weardale run a few express services a week to Newcastle and MetroCentre from Crook, couldn't say how busy they are though

Back when GNE ran their X46 services I would use them quite regularly to visit family in Crook, although I was often they only one on for the whole journey

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(26 Apr 2020, 6:41 pm)col87 wrote A few more suggestions.  

X67 Sunderland Interchange - Washington - Metro centre.  

X13 Sunderland Interchange - Seaham - Dalton Park - Easington - A19 - Billingham- Middlesbrough.   

X70 Darlington -  Newton Aycliffe-  Shildon - Bishop Auckland - Crook - Chester Le Street - Gateshead - Newcastle 

X8. Hartlepool - Hart Station - Hordon - Easington Village - Dalton Park - Seaham.

I've been looking in bygone era to try find an old route. Sunderland to Metro centre. M something. Can anyone shed any light?

(27 Apr 2020, 11:37 am)idiot wrote I've been looking in bygone era to try find an old route. Sunderland to Metro centre. M something. Can anyone shed any light?

Busways did the M39/M40/M41
Northern did the 183/X83/188/X88

There’s no demand these days than it was many years ago, metrocentre was just a novelty.

(27 Apr 2020, 11:37 am)idiot wrote I've been looking in bygone era to try find an old route. Sunderland to Metro centre. M something. Can anyone shed any light?

Stagecoach / Sunderland Busways
M39/M40/M41

Thanks chaps!

(26 Apr 2020, 6:41 pm)col87 wrote X67 Sunderland Interchange - Washington - Metro centre.

If this service was reintroduced it would almost certainly stay as the X88 which currently runs between Concord and the Metrocentre via the Galleries

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