(21 Apr 2020, 11:12 am)JP6004 Well recordings for people buy ticket to hospital would of been available I would suspect. Along with general observations from drivers etc
(21 Apr 2020, 11:12 am)JP6004 Well recordings for people buy ticket to hospital would of been available I would suspect. Along with general observations from drivers etc
(21 Apr 2020, 11:29 am)Andreos1 You're relying on humans there though. Ensuring they're selecting the correct stops/fare stages and are passing on accurate info/observations.What about those tickets that don't need a destinations selected like season tickets and concessionary passed?
Stressed, running late, not giving a toss. Three every day reasons why the accurate isn't right.
When Beeching wielded his axe to the railways, there was all sorts of queries about the accuracy of the data used. Still is now.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:29 am)Andreos1 You're relying on humans there though. Ensuring they're selecting the correct stops/fare stages and are passing on accurate info/observations.What about those tickets that don't need a destinations selected like season tickets and concessionary passed?
Stressed, running late, not giving a toss. Three every day reasons why the accurate isn't right.
When Beeching wielded his axe to the railways, there was all sorts of queries about the accuracy of the data used. Still is now.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:29 am)Andreos1 You're relying on humans there though. Ensuring they're selecting the correct stops/fare stages and are passing on accurate info/observations.Yes not totally reliable, but best they had at the time. Still sad to see Nexus drag their heels and not introducing smart card Network One pass. This would provide greater insight into travel patterns and actually help plan services they subsidise.
Stressed, running late, not giving a toss. Three every day reasons why the information may be wrong or inaccurate
When Beeching wielded his axe to the railways, there was all sorts of queries about the accuracy of the data used. Still is now.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:29 am)Andreos1 You're relying on humans there though. Ensuring they're selecting the correct stops/fare stages and are passing on accurate info/observations.Yes not totally reliable, but best they had at the time. Still sad to see Nexus drag their heels and not introducing smart card Network One pass. This would provide greater insight into travel patterns and actually help plan services they subsidise.
Stressed, running late, not giving a toss. Three every day reasons why the information may be wrong or inaccurate
When Beeching wielded his axe to the railways, there was all sorts of queries about the accuracy of the data used. Still is now.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:32 am)streetdeckfan What about those tickets that don't need a destinations selected like season tickets and concessionary passed?
I think the data most likely to be used would be boarding on the return journey as with the GPS tracking that's pretty accurate and they can then combine that with their outward journey to figure out where they've been
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(21 Apr 2020, 11:34 am)JP6004 Yes not totally reliable, but best they had at the time. Still sad to see Nexus drag their heels and not introducing smart card Network One pass. This would provide greater insight into travel patterns and actually help plan services they subsidise.
In regards to the beeching cuts, they are looking at reinstating some of the lines.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:32 am)streetdeckfan What about those tickets that don't need a destinations selected like season tickets and concessionary passed?
I think the data most likely to be used would be boarding on the return journey as with the GPS tracking that's pretty accurate and they can then combine that with their outward journey to figure out where they've been
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
(21 Apr 2020, 11:34 am)JP6004 Yes not totally reliable, but best they had at the time. Still sad to see Nexus drag their heels and not introducing smart card Network One pass. This would provide greater insight into travel patterns and actually help plan services they subsidise.
In regards to the beeching cuts, they are looking at reinstating some of the lines.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:40 am)Andreos1 But again, you're assuming the correct stop/stage was being selected on the return journey.
There's bound to be innacuries now. Guessing far fewer than previous.
Exactly, not the best but huge changes made as a result. I'd argue its not worked for the 35 or across the region, as numbers are still low.
Re Beeching. Exactly. Innacurate or unreliable data was used and relied on. Just look at the consequences of them doing that.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:40 am)Andreos1 But again, you're assuming the correct stop/stage was being selected on the return journey.
There's bound to be innacuries now. Guessing far fewer than previous.
Exactly, not the best but huge changes made as a result. I'd argue its not worked for the 35 or across the region, as numbers are still low.
Re Beeching. Exactly. Innacurate or unreliable data was used and relied on. Just look at the consequences of them doing that.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:40 am)Andreos1 But again, you're assuming the correct stop/stage was being selected on the return journey.
There's bound to be innacuries now. Guessing far fewer than previous.
Exactly, not the best but huge changes made as a result. I'd argue its not worked for the 35 or across the region, as numbers are still low.
Re Beeching. Exactly. Innacurate or unreliable data was used and relied on. Just look at the consequences of them doing that.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:40 am)Andreos1 But again, you're assuming the correct stop/stage was being selected on the return journey.
There's bound to be innacuries now. Guessing far fewer than previous.
Exactly, not the best but huge changes made as a result. I'd argue its not worked for the 35 or across the region, as numbers are still low.
Re Beeching. Exactly. Innacurate or unreliable data was used and relied on. Just look at the consequences of them doing that.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:47 am)JP6004 Yes but they made best with what data was available at the time. However I'd imagine if the demand was there now, with the ability to track peoples movement across the network then this would of been reinstated, or planned to do so. As far as we're aware, there are no plans to do so, therefore the numbers mustnt be there to warrant the link to be reinstated.
I'd like the bus reinstated from Washington to Ryton, but if there is no demand for such a service then they wont run it just for me.
(21 Apr 2020, 11:47 am)JP6004 Yes but they made best with what data was available at the time. However I'd imagine if the demand was there now, with the ability to track peoples movement across the network then this would of been reinstated, or planned to do so. As far as we're aware, there are no plans to do so, therefore the numbers mustnt be there to warrant the link to be reinstated.
I'd like the bus reinstated from Washington to Ryton, but if there is no demand for such a service then they wont run it just for me.
(21 Apr 2020, 12:45 pm)Andreos1 Why would it be reinstated?
It contradicts their whole operational and business model to have the likes of the 35 serve several key points.
It would spread loads thinly across a number of services, rather than concentrated on a bulk network.
What might be better for passengers, isn't necessarily what's best for the operator and that could be why numbers continue to fall.
But I think that's for a whole other topic/thread.
(21 Apr 2020, 12:45 pm)Andreos1 Why would it be reinstated?
It contradicts their whole operational and business model to have the likes of the 35 serve several key points.
It would spread loads thinly across a number of services, rather than concentrated on a bulk network.
What might be better for passengers, isn't necessarily what's best for the operator and that could be why numbers continue to fall.
But I think that's for a whole other topic/thread.
(21 Apr 2020, 12:53 pm)JP6004 I never said they should reinstate link, I was pointing out the reasons why this part of the route was cut. If there's no demand, then no point operating that section of the route.
Analysis using current methods seem to reconfirm there is no demand for the previous route to be reinstated. Therefore the methods they used 10yrs ago were pretty accurate in measuring passenger numbers. We probably will never see the backlash to such changes again since there is now hard data to justify any changes
I'd like the bus reinstatedBut anyway, to get back to the main point.
(21 Apr 2020, 12:53 pm)JP6004 I never said they should reinstate link, I was pointing out the reasons why this part of the route was cut. If there's no demand, then no point operating that section of the route.
Analysis using current methods seem to reconfirm there is no demand for the previous route to be reinstated. Therefore the methods they used 10yrs ago were pretty accurate in measuring passenger numbers. We probably will never see the backlash to such changes again since there is now hard data to justify any changes
I'd like the bus reinstatedBut anyway, to get back to the main point.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:12 pm)Andreos1 But anyway, to get back to the main point.
Unreliable data was used. It was the best they had at the time.
Numbers may have been steady, they may have been dropping, they may have been increasing. Regardless, it didn't fit in to the model.
Has it worked?
Numbers have dropped, frequency has dropped, passengers need to use two/three buses to complete a journey that was possible on one and the vehicles used are about 15 years old on the 35 route.
Given the choice of using public transport or driving to the hospital, I'd use the former. Assuming it was easier, cheaper and reliable. As it isn't, my habits have changed. I'm just one person.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:12 pm)Andreos1 But anyway, to get back to the main point.
Unreliable data was used. It was the best they had at the time.
Numbers may have been steady, they may have been dropping, they may have been increasing. Regardless, it didn't fit in to the model.
Has it worked?
Numbers have dropped, frequency has dropped, passengers need to use two/three buses to complete a journey that was possible on one and the vehicles used are about 15 years old on the 35 route.
Given the choice of using public transport or driving to the hospital, I'd use the former. Assuming it was easier, cheaper and reliable. As it isn't, my habits have changed. I'm just one person.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:22 pm)JP6004 Maybe the frequency has dropped because there isn't the demand there once was. If the demand was there back then and now, the link would have continued. And the numbers have only dropped because majority of people can use 20 to complete their full journey. Its quicker than 35 is on the sunderland to Houghton section.
As Spock said, the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few
(21 Apr 2020, 1:22 pm)JP6004 Maybe the frequency has dropped because there isn't the demand there once was. If the demand was there back then and now, the link would have continued. And the numbers have only dropped because majority of people can use 20 to complete their full journey. Its quicker than 35 is on the sunderland to Houghton section.
As Spock said, the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few
(21 Apr 2020, 1:33 pm)Michael That's defiantly one of the points, of why its been downgraded but also because the Scania Euro 5 upgrade contract said, as previously said they needed to stay in Sunderland because of this, and the only route to get all of them on was was the 35 - after all the other routes were upgraded,however it should be upgraded once Deptford gets the Streetlites from the Red Kite... whether that's Streetlites or another kind of bus.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:33 pm)Michael That's defiantly one of the points, of why its been downgraded but also because the Scania Euro 5 upgrade contract said, as previously said they needed to stay in Sunderland because of this, and the only route to get all of them on was was the 35 - after all the other routes were upgraded,however it should be upgraded once Deptford gets the Streetlites from the Red Kite... whether that's Streetlites or another kind of bus.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:22 pm)JP6004 Maybe the frequency has dropped because there isn't the demand there once was. If the demand was there back then and now, the link would have continued. And the numbers have only dropped because majority of people can use 20 to complete their full journey. Its quicker than 35 is on the sunderland to Houghton section.
As Spock said, the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few
(21 Apr 2020, 1:22 pm)JP6004 Maybe the frequency has dropped because there isn't the demand there once was. If the demand was there back then and now, the link would have continued. And the numbers have only dropped because majority of people can use 20 to complete their full journey. Its quicker than 35 is on the sunderland to Houghton section.
As Spock said, the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few
(21 Apr 2020, 3:32 pm)Andreos1 Exactly. I'm one person and I don't use the service now.
I'd imagine there are many more who are elastic and have the choice and given the option of driving or taxiing there, or sitting on an old, infrequent bus and then having to change, particularly on a cold, wet windy day - I'd hazard a guess as to what the majority would do.
The point has been made many times about the 20 being quicker from Houghton - Sunderland.
Except the majority of the people living in the Houghton DH4 or DH5 postcodes don't live in the town centre or on the 20 route, therefor rendering its journey time compared to the 35 pretty pointless, if you live on part of the 35 route and can't now get to places you need to go - unless you change buses.
(21 Apr 2020, 3:32 pm)Andreos1 Exactly. I'm one person and I don't use the service now.
I'd imagine there are many more who are elastic and have the choice and given the option of driving or taxiing there, or sitting on an old, infrequent bus and then having to change, particularly on a cold, wet windy day - I'd hazard a guess as to what the majority would do.
The point has been made many times about the 20 being quicker from Houghton - Sunderland.
Except the majority of the people living in the Houghton DH4 or DH5 postcodes don't live in the town centre or on the 20 route, therefor rendering its journey time compared to the 35 pretty pointless, if you live on part of the 35 route and can't now get to places you need to go - unless you change buses.
(21 Apr 2020, 3:37 pm)JP6004 But that cant be helped when the council stipulated that the L94 had to remain in service at Sunderland. Id imagine they would of gone long ago, same as green arrow. But that route is now prospering even with Xline routes to Newcastle and gateshead.
Perhaps people will be inclined to use the 35 when 15 reg vehicles with all the mod cons are allocated
(21 Apr 2020, 3:37 pm)JP6004 But that cant be helped when the council stipulated that the L94 had to remain in service at Sunderland. Id imagine they would of gone long ago, same as green arrow. But that route is now prospering even with Xline routes to Newcastle and gateshead.
Perhaps people will be inclined to use the 35 when 15 reg vehicles with all the mod cons are allocated
(20 Apr 2020, 8:23 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Is the 35 one of the most downgraded routes in the network? I remember when it was the Laser with new Mercs....can't remember now but did the downgrade to Solars coincide with the loss of the Shields section, or something else? Presume the route that remains is (in normal times - not re Covid) not lucrative hence the downgrade if so?
(20 Apr 2020, 8:23 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Is the 35 one of the most downgraded routes in the network? I remember when it was the Laser with new Mercs....can't remember now but did the downgrade to Solars coincide with the loss of the Shields section, or something else? Presume the route that remains is (in normal times - not re Covid) not lucrative hence the downgrade if so?
(26 Apr 2020, 11:28 am)Storx Remember you posting this but just thought the 6/M6/M7/M8 (Old 43/44) has to beat the 35 in terms of downgrades. It's had so many changes in terms of buses, none of them positive, but it's also had a massive downgrade in the timetable aswell from a service that used to be every 15 minutes (43/44) and always quite a flagship route (one of the early brands) to now all over the place and some of the communities have just lost some of the connections altogether. Tanobie -> Newcastle and Durham for example.But travel patterns have changed over the years particularly with regards to the 6.
(26 Apr 2020, 11:28 am)Storx Remember you posting this but just thought the 6/M6/M7/M8 (Old 43/44) has to beat the 35 in terms of downgrades. It's had so many changes in terms of buses, none of them positive, but it's also had a massive downgrade in the timetable aswell from a service that used to be every 15 minutes (43/44) and always quite a flagship route (one of the early brands) to now all over the place and some of the communities have just lost some of the connections altogether. Tanobie -> Newcastle and Durham for example.But travel patterns have changed over the years particularly with regards to the 6.
(26 Apr 2020, 11:46 am)L469 YVK But travel patterns have changed over the years particularly with regards to the 6.
- Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle is now well served with the X30/X31 every 15 minutes as well as the X70/X71.
- Catchgate and Annfield Plain covered by X30 (albeit slightly limited during Monday to Friday afternoons, I'm sure GNE will rectify this going forward if demand is there).
- A lot of the 6 route between Stanley and Sunniside is covered by the faster X70/X71.
(26 Apr 2020, 11:46 am)L469 YVK But travel patterns have changed over the years particularly with regards to the 6.
- Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle is now well served with the X30/X31 every 15 minutes as well as the X70/X71.
- Catchgate and Annfield Plain covered by X30 (albeit slightly limited during Monday to Friday afternoons, I'm sure GNE will rectify this going forward if demand is there).
- A lot of the 6 route between Stanley and Sunniside is covered by the faster X70/X71.
(26 Apr 2020, 6:12 pm)Storx I don't know the area that well but didn't they exist when the 43 and 44 was around (West Durham Swift I believe their brand was)? I can't really comment on people using them though was just a reply to has anything had a worse downgrade than the 35.43 and 44 were Diamond
(26 Apr 2020, 6:12 pm)Storx I don't know the area that well but didn't they exist when the 43 and 44 was around (West Durham Swift I believe their brand was)? I can't really comment on people using them though was just a reply to has anything had a worse downgrade than the 35.43 and 44 were Diamond
(26 Apr 2020, 10:07 pm)JP6004 43 and 44 were Diamond
West durham Swift was X70/X71/X30/X31
Loading were great on 43/44 however when more direct services were introduced on the old X43 service (M6 etc) they reduced service to half hourly.
I only used 43/44 between whickham and burnopfield. Or if i was out drinking in town and caught last bus home. Didnt like the route being carved up, but if people travels warranted it then can understand.
But now that citaros reallocated to the 6, theres been no real downgrade other than the fact it's not branded
(26 Apr 2020, 10:07 pm)JP6004 43 and 44 were Diamond
West durham Swift was X70/X71/X30/X31
Loading were great on 43/44 however when more direct services were introduced on the old X43 service (M6 etc) they reduced service to half hourly.
I only used 43/44 between whickham and burnopfield. Or if i was out drinking in town and caught last bus home. Didnt like the route being carved up, but if people travels warranted it then can understand.
But now that citaros reallocated to the 6, theres been no real downgrade other than the fact it's not branded
