Really not liking this new layout, where has May recent discussion gone and what is it with all these threads! Also cant view most recent with scrolling though every single page ??

(04 May 2020, 9:36 am)JP6004 wrote Really not liking this new layout, where has May recent discussion gone and what is it with all these threads! Also cant view most recent with scrolling though every single page ??

Read more: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=2439&pid=242488#pid242488

With buses getting evidently busier, I wonder whether Go North East will start to introduce bigger buses on certain routes (like they have on the 58) or up frequencies slightly, although the latter may be a trigger for more people to make yet more unnecessary journeys.

I travelled to Chester-le-Street on the 21 on Saturday to get some groceries in (£2.30 again!!) and the bus I travelled on had a decent load, the first time I have had to sit upstairs.

Doris and Maude sat gossiping like a normal day....

(04 May 2020, 10:03 am)LeeCalder wrote With buses getting evidently busier, I wonder whether Go North East will start to introduce bigger buses on certain routes (like they have on the 58) or up frequencies slightly, although the latter may be a trigger for more people to make yet more unnecessary journeys.

I travelled to Chester-le-Street on the 21 on Saturday to get some groceries in (£2.30 again!!) and the bus I travelled on had a decent load, the first time I have had to sit upstairs.

Doris and Maude sat gossiping like a normal day....

Most of the buses taken out of service last month are ready and waiting as 'hot spares' (the only ones which aren't are the ones which are off service due to defects) - that includes 14x double-deck, so very much in a position to react with bigger buses quite quickly.

It's obviously a bit more challenging to change the frequency of routes at short notice - generally speaking bus operators are a week behind any 'new news', with Go North East's schedule revisions always implemented on a Saturday. There have been a few instances where duplicate journeys have been operated following feedback into Customer Services about buses getting busier and the ticket machine data backing that up. Doesn't seem to be any obvious trends - buses are busier one day, then quieter the next.

(04 May 2020, 10:03 am)LeeCalder wrote With buses getting evidently busier, I wonder whether Go North East will start to introduce bigger buses on certain routes (like they have on the 58) or up frequencies slightly, although the latter may be a trigger for more people to make yet more unnecessary journeys.

I travelled to Chester-le-Street on the 21 on Saturday to get some groceries in (£2.30 again!!) and the bus I travelled on had a decent load, the first time I have had to sit upstairs.

Doris and Maude sat gossiping like a normal day....

I had a similar experience when I got the 49 to Gateshead last week (or the week before, I can't keep track!), it was fine until Bolam Street Flats where it just filled up, it was impossible to keep two seats apart.
Everyone was huddled together at the bus stop and while they sat on separate rows, they turned so they could talk!

The 10 is usually nearly empty when I’ve seen it passing through when walking to the shops, although this may vary on time of day as I usually only go out between 12-2 and in after that for the day


Sent from my iPhone XS using Tapatalk

When we start to get back to normal, we're likely to see buses brought back in to service in stages:

Stage 1: Enhanced Sunday service
Stage 2: Normal Sunday service
Stage 3: Saturday service
Stage 4: Full service resumes

I had to take a trip down to Bishop today to pick up some paperwork from the house and I was genuinely surprised by the lack of social distancing on buses! 

Everybody standing together at the bus stop, the 49 was borderline packed with everyone huddled together in the first few rows with only the odd person making the trek up the steps!. 

In Gateshead Interchange everybody seemed to be sitting next to each other inside so I just stood outside away from everyone (and probably got sunburn because of it!)

I mean, I'm not usually one to care about my own wellbeing, but at least I'm trying to make an effort with the social distancing (not that I go near people anyway!). In Aldi someone pushed in between me and the trolley to pick up a block of cheese, couldn't have been more than 30cm away from my face, even without a global pandemic that's not very pleasant! 

It's mostly the older people who don't seem to care.

Plus, the Arriva 6 driver was reluctant to accept my GNE ticket, and when she did she acted as though it was out the goodness of her heart and not a company policy!

With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:

Consett

• X30: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• X71: Single-deck to double-deck
  

Deptford

• 5: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 20: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 33: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 38: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 50: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
  

Hexham

• 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
  

Riverside

• 33A: Minibus to midibus
  
• 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
  
• 57: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• Q3: Minibus to single-deck
  
• X10: Single-deck to double-deck
  

As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.

There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:

• 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
  
• 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
  
• 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
  
• 6157: Consett to Deptford
  

(08 May 2020, 2:19 pm)Dan wrote With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:

Consett

• X30: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• X71: Single-deck to double-deck
  

Deptford

• 5: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 20: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 33: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 38: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 50: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
  

Hexham

• 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
  

Riverside

• 33A: Minibus to midibus
  
• 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
  
• 57: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• Q3: Minibus to single-deck
  
• X10: Single-deck to double-deck
  

As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.

There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:

• 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
  
• 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
  
• 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
  
• 6157: Consett to Deptford
  

No changes at Washington? Given ASDA at The Galleries is always teeming, and some areas are only being served every 2 hours, there's quite probably going to be an increase in passenger numbers on the routes with a minimal frequency.

(08 May 2020, 2:43 pm)LeeCalder wrote No changes at Washington? Given ASDA at The Galleries is always teeming, and some areas are only being served every 2 hours, there's quite probably going to be an increase in passenger numbers on the routes with a minimal frequency.

For the minibuses, not yet... but it's something being reviewed on a daily basis.

The 50 is being increased in capacity from single-deck to double-deck.

(08 May 2020, 2:45 pm)Dan wrote For the minibuses, not yet... but it's something being reviewed on a daily basis.

The 50 is being increased in capacity from single-deck to double-deck.

I've made a couple of journeys on the 82 to the shops and back, it's difficult to keep your distance regardless of where you sit if there's more than approx 5 passengers.

It'll be interesting to see how people take the Government announcement, as inevitably you'll have people thinking lockdown is over and they can do whatever they wish.

(08 May 2020, 2:57 pm)LeeCalder wrote I've made a couple of journeys on the 82 to the shops and back, it's difficult to keep your distance regardless of where you sit if there's more than approx 5 passengers.

It'll be interesting to see how people take the Government announcement, as inevitably you'll have people thinking lockdown is over and they can do whatever they wish.

The Government and Department for Transport advice for bus operators is that buses should be at no more than 50% of their intended capacity, excluding seats which have been temporarily taken out of use.

So for an Optare Solo that usually has 30 seats but currently has 6 tip-up seats taken out of use, the guidance from the Government and Department for Transport would be that the bus does not exceed more than 12 passengers (50% of 24).

Go North East has aimed to not exceed more than 30% capacity at any given time on the majority of journeys (so for an Optare Solo, this would be 7), using the DfT's guidance only for the busiest of journeys, and have actively encouraged drivers to inform a manager if they feel buses are overcrowded.

(08 May 2020, 2:19 pm)Dan wrote With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:

Consett

• X30: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• X71: Single-deck to double-deck
  

Deptford

• 5: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 20: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 33: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 38: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 50: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
  

Hexham

• 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
  

Riverside

• 33A: Minibus to midibus
  
• 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
  
• 57: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• Q3: Minibus to single-deck
  
• X10: Single-deck to double-deck
  

As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.

There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:

• 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
  
• 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
  
• 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
  
• 6157: Consett to Deptford
  

Thanks for the information.

Will these changes commence from Monday?

(08 May 2020, 3:47 pm)Michael wrote Thanks for the information.

Will these changes commence from Monday?

On paper from tomorrow but it usually takes a few days for these things to bed in.

From Monday there will be single-deck and double-deck “hot spares” over the morning and afternoon peak at key bus stations to help ease any potential overcrowding issues too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(08 May 2020, 3:53 pm)Dan wrote On paper from tomorrow but it usually takes a few days for these things to bed in.

From Monday there will be single-deck and double-deck “hot spares” over the morning and afternoon peak at key bus stations to help ease any potential overcrowding issues too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cool, thanks for the extra information.

Extra information 4 times lol.

I take it the 45 will become StreetDeck operated to allow the E400MMCs to work the X30 / X71.

Will be an interesting comparison to see how the StreetDeck performs on the 45 compared to the E400MMC.

I think GNE will move to ADL if the X1 / X30 batch of E400MMCs are reliable and GNE are happy with them. I can also see a lot of vehicle movements in the North between GoNE/ EY / GoNW to better utilise the fleet.

Green Arrow E200s on Q1/Q2s, would guess these have came off the 67/69 due to Low loading on these services at the moment

Citylink Versas are now on the Q3, I'll guess the indigo Solo SRs have gone on the 67/69 in a reallocation shuffle

The Diamond Streetlites look to have gone back on the 67/M6 & 69.

(08 May 2020, 2:19 pm)Dan wrote With an expectant announcement from the Government this weekend that lockdown restrictions may be relaxed, there may be a small increase in demand for bus services. To allow for better social distancing where possible, the following services will be operated by larger vehicles as a result of this:

Consett

• X30: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• X71: Single-deck to double-deck
  

Deptford

• 5: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 20: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 33: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 38: Minibus to single-deck
  
• 50: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• 135/136: Minibus to single-deck
  

Hexham

• 185/681/X81: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• 74: Merc Sprinter to minibus
  
• X84/X85: Minibus to single-deck
  

Riverside

• 33A: Minibus to midibus
  
• 53/54: Midibus to single-deck
  
• 57: Single-deck to double-deck
  
• Q3: Minibus to single-deck
  
• X10: Single-deck to double-deck
  

As such, some of the buses which are currently 'not in service' will return to service, and a small number of the buses which were delicensed have also been brought back into service.

There will also be a small number of transfers as a consequence:

• 5389 & 5390: Riverside to Hexham
  
• 6304, 6305, 6306, 6307: Riverside to Consett
  
• 5442, 5443, 5444, 5445: Consett to Riverside
  
• 6157: Consett to Deptford
  

Go North East might be one of the most prolific operators in the country for operating smaller buses during the pandemic.

(09 May 2020, 6:34 am)Metroline1511 wrote Go North East might be one of the most prolific operators in the country for operating smaller buses during the pandemic.

At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.

The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.

If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.

There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.

(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan wrote There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.

One thing I noticed with Arriva whilst I was temporarily on office based standby to assist with high demand before Easter (but now WFH) was that a lot of older double deck vehicles were on the road. Surely given the situation, Arriva should've just had the following out across the 3x Northumbria depots with vehicle movements between depots where required:

- E400MMCs (7541-7552)
- E400 classics (14 , 64 & 15 plate only)
- VDL DB300 Pulasr Gemini as a last resort (61 plate only)

(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan wrote At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.

The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.

If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.

There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.

Interesting comments. There's already been mention of the frequency on the Birtley Solos leading to potential crowding and I've seen it myself on the 4. 

If smaller vehicles are going to be used on the 4, then I do think that the 20/25 mins layover they get behind Lidl needs to be used in a more efficient manner.
A short run (to Woodstone Village or Lambton turning circle and back) would not only ensure the allocated resources are being used, but it would also assist with passengers being clumped together when loadings were higher. At minimal cost. 
That stretch has gone from 5x 4's and 2x 71's, to one bus an hour - with fewer seats.

(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan wrote If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.

Issue is people just aren't trying to follow social distancing, at least on the buses I've been on.
I've been on the 49 a couple times and once it gets to Teams, even with the back of the bus empty, everyone just huddles together on the first few rows, sitting next to each other so you can't even walk up the aisle without physically touching them. It's not like you can even say they're in the same household as they get on at different stops. The older people sit right behind each other then turn around to they can talk, completely defeating the point of sitting apart. 

I had the exact same experience on the Arriva 6, someone got on at ASDA with all their shopping, sat in the wheelchair bay and started chatting with the lady in the first row seat.  There was someone sat in every row at the front, with one person sitting past the steps

Without sounding too disrespectful (when has that every stopped me!) it seems to only be poorer people who are just blatantly ignoring the rules, the people who are most likely to still be travelling by bus.

(09 May 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 wrote Interesting comments. There's already been mention of the frequency on the Birtley Solos leading to potential crowding and I've seen it myself on the 4. 

If smaller vehicles are going to be used on the 4, then I do think that the 20/25 mins layover they get behind Lidl needs to be used in a more efficient manner.
A short run (to Woodstone Village or Lambton turning circle and back) would not only ensure the allocated resources are being used, but it would also assist with passengers being clumped together when loadings were higher. At minimal cost. 
That stretch has gone from 5x 4's and 2x 71's, to one bus an hour - with fewer seats.

Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.

I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.

(09 May 2020, 11:40 am)streetdeckfan wrote Issue is people just aren't trying to follow social distancing, at least on the buses I've been on.
I've been on the 49 a couple times and once it gets to Teams, even with the back of the bus empty, everyone just huddles together on the first few rows, sitting next to each other so you can't even walk up the aisle without physically touching them. It's not like you can even say they're in the same household as they get on at different stops. The older people sit right behind each other then turn around to they can talk, completely defeating the point of sitting apart.

Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.

As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.

There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...

(09 May 2020, 7:45 am)Dan wrote At the time the re-allocations were made, there was no Government support for bus operators. A huge plunge in passenger numbers and revenue (openly quoted as being a 90% loss) yet still burdening the full costs of many things to run a bus company, it was entirely sensible to allocate the most fuel-efficient, BSOG-earning buses, in the fleet.

The picture changed somewhat when the Government announced the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme (although there are still many staff behind the scenes that don't drive buses that cannot be furloughed), and it's less of an issue now that the Government has pledged to support bus operators to help 'bridge the gap' on running costs to help them breakeven, but this still doesn't cover every cost in its entirety so in reality it will still be a loss that is made. Bus operators are very much - using a turn of phrase which has often been mooted on this forum - taking the rough with the smooth at the moment, as they're providing a lifeline service to many key workers.

If social distancing is still maintained (to the best it can be on a bus (let's face it, it's more or less impossible to sit 2m apart when the largest double-decks are only 2.5m in width, which is why the DfT guidance is for buses to be no more than 50% full), then I don't see the issue in running smaller buses to help mitigate some of the losses of running these lifeline services.

There seems to be no consistency, even locally, in what other operators are doing. I still think the mind boggles that Arriva North East haven't SORN'd any of their buses (but have taken them out of use!) At approx £40/month for tax, multiplied by 400 vehicles, Go North East have saved approximately £16,000 by SORN'ing the fleet.

Thank you for explaining why smaller vehicles have been used, especially initially.  It will be a fascinating time for local enthusiasts where reasonable seeing many routes operated by different vehicles than usual.

(09 May 2020, 6:40 pm)Dan wrote Just picking up on this comment - the Streetlites actually have more seats than the Citaros. Aside from the fuel economy and low carbon certification, this was another reason for them being allocated.

I think the perception is often that they have fewer seats but they actually don't. The Citaros in particular have quite an unusual seating layout (especially the older ones that aren't used on the 4) which results in the number of seats being fewer.


Yes, I'd agree with this comment too. In the last fortnight or so I've taken up cycling in a bid to try and get a bit healthier and lose a bit of weight. In my experience of observing the buses I've seen whilst on my bike rides, I've often seen people sat together at the front of the bus leaving the back of the bus empty.

As far as I know there have been no reported 'overcrowding' issues on service 4 other than the one that Andreos1 reported. I do wonder whether it was a similar story where outside looking in, it appeared to be full, but when you actually see the bus stationary you can see that there are still plenty of seats closer to the back of the bus.

There are vinyls on the floors of the buses, there are posters around the cab area, in the poster holders, and the 'Next Stop' audio-visual TFT monitors (where buses are equipped with them) also show imagery around social distancing. You can lead a horse to water...

I wonder if it would be worth putting signs every other seat asking passengers to not sit there unless there are no other seats available, and reminding passengers to only have one person per row.

(09 May 2020, 6:59 pm)Metroline1511 wrote Thank you for explaining why smaller vehicles have been used, especially initially.  It will be a fascinating time for local enthusiasts where reasonable seeing many routes operated by different vehicles than usual.

No problem.

The next stage is now providing more capacity whilst the 'skeleton timetable' is in operation. Some of these changes took place today:

Fab56 Volvo B9s now in use on service 20: https://flic.kr/p/2iZb6vA
Cobalt & Coast Volvo B9s now in use on service 57: https://flic.kr/p/2iZdHjp
Streetlites now in use on services 135/136: https://flic.kr/p/2iZ8Cr7
Solos now in use on service 74: https://flic.kr/p/2iZfa28
Versas now in use on services X84/X85: https://flic.kr/p/2iZdDMi

Thanks for the photos Dan.

I rode a Solo SR on route 74 in 2017, which IIRC was yellow. So the colour seemed unusual but not the vehicle.