(27 May 2020, 12:45 pm)michaelb wrote Pre 2013 the 10 ran every 20 minutes with single deckers between Hexham and Newcastle with the 11 running every 30 minutes between Prudhoe and Newcastle via Scotswood Road

When the double deckers were introduced, service 10 went down to every 30 minutes with service 10B being introduced every 30 minutes from Prudhoe to Newcastle via Metrocentre. Service 11 then went to Blackhall Mill to replace a different service.

Then service 11 was scrapped in 2016 and replaced by an extended 10A.

Was the 11 sent to Blackhall Mill to replace the 69A? I feel it was around that time but I can't remember

(27 May 2020, 6:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Was the 11 sent to Blackhall Mill to replace the 69A? I feel it was around that time but I can't remember

Yes it was.

(27 May 2020, 11:02 am)LeeCalder wrote It's an inconvenience to those in Barley Mow, Vigo, Portobello, Portmeads, Northside and Eighton Banks who now need to make a break to their journey. As mentioned before, a 15 minute journey now becomes a much lengthier journey.

Planning a return journey which meets a 25 in Wrekenton without having a wait for some time is not convenient!

In fairness what would the difference be if catching a bus to the galleries and swap onto an X1 there?, dont know the timings of buses from that area.

Re 25. whhy couldnt it follow the 1 route from wreckenton up untill the altaster ( its changed its name now to the coachman) then instead of going along low fell turn up beacon lough road and then back onto old route? this would alos allow passengers from harlow green a link to the QE rather than a bus/walk to wreckenton?

(28 May 2020, 1:37 pm)Rob44 wrote Re 25. whhy couldnt it follow the 1 route from wreckenton up untill the altaster ( its changed its name now to the coachman) then instead of going along low fell turn up beacon lough road and then back onto old route? this would alos allow passengers from harlow green a link to the QE rather than a bus/walk to wreckenton?

My own thoughts are that its diversion along Durham Road is to relieve pressure on the 21/X21 whilst ensuring there isn't scope for the X12 or an alternative to grow. Paranoia following the Classic bus war? 
I might be totally wrong, but from the outside looking in - that's my interpretation.

I never thought of that but using the 29/28b/1a when they used to run along there i found customers standing at the stops would rather wait for the 21. I dont think GNE see the arriva service as competition which is a shame as thats what maggie wanted back in 86!

(28 May 2020, 1:37 pm)Rob44 wrote Re 25. whhy couldnt it follow the 1 route from wreckenton up untill the altaster ( its changed its name now to the coachman) then instead of going along low fell turn up beacon lough road and then back onto old route? this would alos allow passengers from harlow green a link to the QE rather than a bus/walk to wreckenton?

Not sure the people of Langley Park would appreciate an even longer journey into town!

(28 May 2020, 2:59 pm)Rob44 wrote I never thought of that but using the 29/28b/1a when they used to run along there i found customers standing at the stops would rather wait for the 21. I dont think GNE see the arriva service as competition which is a shame as thats what maggie wanted back in 86!

Aye, always found it strange. Maybe they preferred getting off at a certain stop or like the routine of getting a certain bus?
Can lead a horse to water and all that jazz...

(28 May 2020, 2:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote My own thoughts are that its diversion along Durham Road is to relieve pressure on the 21/X21 whilst ensuring there isn't scope for the X12 or an alternative to grow. Paranoia following the Classic bus war? 
I might be totally wrong, but from the outside looking in - that's my interpretation.

It's so they can reduce the frequency of the 1 from Gateshead to Whitley to every 20 minutes. It wouldn't work having the the Wrekenton and Metro Centre parts as you need 4 buses an hour. It obviously doesn't have enough passengers to carry on it's own so they've merged it with the 25 the least of the important buses going towards Wrekenton / Low Fell. All about cost savings and reducing the PVR in my opinion.

Are the X6/X7 going to be dropped from the xline brand?, just in the GNE site in timetables it has the X6/x7 into corporate red while the x20 still under the xline brand?






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(28 May 2020, 4:04 pm)Storx wrote It's so they can reduce the frequency of the 1 from Gateshead to Whitley to every 20 minutes. It wouldn't work having the the Wrekenton and Metro Centre parts as you need 4 buses an hour. It obviously doesn't have enough passengers to carry on it's own so they've merged it with the 25 the least of the important buses going towards Wrekenton / Low Fell. All about cost savings and reducing the PVR in my opinion.

Agreed, it's all about reducing the PVR and saving a few pennies, which was a point I made yesterday.

For the passengers who use it, it is very important.

(28 May 2020, 4:04 pm)Storx wrote It's so they can reduce the frequency of the 1 from Gateshead to Whitley to every 20 minutes. It wouldn't work having the the Wrekenton and Metro Centre parts as you need 4 buses an hour. It obviously doesn't have enough passengers to carry on it's own so they've merged it with the 25 the least of the important buses going towards Wrekenton / Low Fell.  All about cost savings and reducing the PVR in my opinion. 

I agree that this will be a factor - the fleet size is getting smaller and smaller.
However if Durham Road wasn't a factor, they could have diverted the Q1/Q2 off Easedale Gardens as an example and removed the Harlow Green - Durham Road link. 

Whilst there are some positives around the 21 serving the Arnison Centre, I can see it resulting in reliability issues - with a subsequent knock on effect along the Durham Road. What better than to offer an alternative in the form of the 25? Slightly longer journey, but still serves key parts of the 21 route.

(28 May 2020, 5:39 pm)Andreos1 wrote I agree that this will be a factor - the fleet size is getting smaller and smaller.
However if Durham Road wasn't a factor, they could have diverted the Q1/Q2 off Easedale Gardens as an example and removed the Harlow Green - Durham Road link. 

Whilst there are some positives around the 21 serving the Arnison Centre, I can see it resulting in reliability issues - with a subsequent knock on effect along the Durham Road. What better than to offer an alternative in the form of the 25? Slightly longer journey, but still serves key parts of the 21 route.

I can imagine it's more about the Wrekenton to Low Fell link if you redirected the Q1/Q2 your losing that link and I could imagine that's more popular than Birtley to the QE. You could argue that's there's too many buses down Sheriff Hill aswell; 28, 56, 57 (Partly), X1. Even known it's a big loss for those using the link.

Redirecting the 25 to Arnison makes it way too long for Langley Park and Sacriston for going to Newcastle which is main purpose of the route. Both those communities already have the X20 for that link but is there much demand to Arnison North of Chester-Le-Street, I'm not too sure.

(27 May 2020, 4:32 pm)Michael wrote With the upcoming changes how much does the PVR drop, compared to the pre-coronavirus PVR? including the spare buses from the 56 and 60 due to their timetables reduced until demand comes back.

Excluding any schools or works services, it looks like a PVR reduction of about 33 Monday to Friday. 2 each on 40 (Durham Cathedral), AD122, 56 and 60 can presumably be considered as temporary. PVRs for regular services look like 433 Mon-Fri, 283 on Saturday and 120 on Sunday. I could be a few out here and there. School and works contracts will increase weekday requirements.

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(27 May 2020, 1:39 pm)cbma06 wrote Will Deptford be doing the X20 on a Sunday on the Durham west section?


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Timetable suggests running off the back of the 21 on a Sunday, on the opposite half hour to the X21, just as the 14 is now.

(28 May 2020, 6:49 pm)missedbus wrote Excluding any schools or works services, it looks like a PVR reduction of about 33 Monday to Friday. 2 each on 40 (Durham Cathedral), AD122, 56 and 60 can presumably be considered as temporary. PVRs for regular services look like 433 Mon-Fri, 283 on Saturday and 120 on Sunday. I could be a few out here and there. School and works contracts will increase weekday requirements.

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Timetable suggests running off the back of the 21 on a Sunday, on the opposite half hour to the X21, just as the 14 is now.

Thanks, more than i thought.

Defo gonna see quite a few temp allocations then.

(28 May 2020, 6:47 pm)Storx wrote I can imagine it's more about the Wrekenton to Low Fell link if you redirected the Q1/Q2 your losing that link and I could imagine that's more popular than Birtley to the QE. You could argue that's there's too many buses down Sheriff Hill aswell; 28, 56, 57 (Partly), X1. Even known it's a big loss for those using the link.

Redirecting the 25 to Arnison makes it way too long for Langley Park and Sacriston for going to Newcastle which is main purpose of the route. Both those communities already have the X20 for that link but is there much demand to Arnison North of Chester-Le-Street, I'm not too sure.

Not really. At the narrowest point, Kells Lane is meters from Durham Road. Dryden Road then shadows it for its length. 
You wouldn't be losing that link at all. 

I'd suggest more people would be inconvenced losing a link to/from their local hospital, than those walking a couple of minutes down Lowreys Lane.

However, if the connection between the various parts of Birtley to the local hospital isn't well used, it goes back to my question the other day. Why? Why aren't people using the bus which serves the various estates of Birtley and beyond, to get to/from work, visiting or appointments at the QE? It's not as if the QE isn't a popular (and I use the word loosely) destination for the people of Gateshead (including the most vulnerable and possibly those in the lower demographics). The footfall is massive, yet here we are seeing direct bus services to it - reduced.
Just like we've seen in Sunderland.

(28 May 2020, 7:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote Not really. At the narrowest point, Kells Lane is meters from Durham Road. Dryden Road then shadows it for its length. 
You wouldn't be losing that link at all. 

I'd suggest more people would be inconvenced losing a link to/from their local hospital, than those walking a couple of minutes down Lowreys Lane.

However, if the connection between the various parts of Birtley to the local hospital isn't well used, it goes back to my question the other day. Why? Why aren't people using the bus which serves the various estates of Birtley and beyond, to get to/from work, visiting or appointments at the QE? It's not as if the QE isn't a popular (and I use the word loosely) destination for the people of Gateshead (including the most vulnerable and possibly those in the lower demographics). The footfall is massive, yet here we are seeing direct bus services to it - reduced.
Just like we've seen in Sunderland.

It's a funny area. Birtley and Chester Le Street always reminds me of the similar issue that we have over my way near Whitley Bay where you have some direct lines where there's a really frequent service (21 / X12 route) but once you go off there it's a waste of time and the links are just generally slow (goes around the world), unfrequent and don't have evening services so you can't realistically rely on bus services or they're local routes so you have to change and there's nothing else; Waldridge Park etc.

It's a similar story here if you live on the 308/309 route or the 1/306 then you have an excellent service go off there and it's a waste of time. Briardene, Wellfield, Earsdon, Whitley Lodge, Monkseaton. It's no wonder bus usage is low and everything is subsidised in the area as it's simply not usable unless you like changing buses and paying multiple operators.

Could imagine that's why usage is low as people simply just don't use them. Making the route longer won't help matters neither.

(28 May 2020, 7:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote Not really. At the narrowest point, Kells Lane is meters from Durham Road. Dryden Road then shadows it for its length. 
You wouldn't be losing that link at all. 

I'd suggest more people would be inconvenced losing a link to/from their local hospital, than those walking a couple of minutes down Lowreys Lane.

However, if the connection between the various parts of Birtley to the local hospital isn't well used, it goes back to my question the other day. Why? Why aren't people using the bus which serves the various estates of Birtley and beyond, to get to/from work, visiting or appointments at the QE? It's not as if the QE isn't a popular (and I use the word loosely) destination for the people of Gateshead (including the most vulnerable and possibly those in the lower demographics). The footfall is massive, yet here we are seeing direct bus services to it - reduced.
Just like we've seen in Sunderland.

I'd argue that the link to the hospital is well used, and it's simply that it fits the frequency they want for Harlow Green, if anything.

28 is once an hour. The rest of the services are all very frequent.

The 25 sits in the middle at every 30.

It's a cost cutting measure. They've saved money by re-routing a bus which already runs every half an hour, and meh, if people want the QE sod them, they can just change buses. Simple enough isn't it?!

Pre-covid, bus use has been down year on year. Is it really any wonder when essential links are being chopped left, right and centre.

Who would clart on getting two buses, adding christ knows how long onto their journey there and back (when it was previously 15 minutes each way) when they could just get a taxi!

(28 May 2020, 7:58 pm)Storx wrote It's a funny area. Birtley and Chester Le Street always reminds me of the similar issue that we have over my way near Whitley Bay where you have some direct lines where there's a really frequent service (21 / X12 route) but once you go off there it's a waste of time and the links are just generally slow (goes around the world), unfrequent and don't have evening services so you can't realistically rely on bus services or they're local routes so you have to change and there's nothing else; Waldridge Park etc.

It's a similar story here if you live on the 308/309 route or the 1/306 then you have an excellent service go off there and it's a waste of time. Briardene, Wellfield, Earsdon, Whitley Lodge, Monkseaton. It's no wonder bus usage is low and everything is subsidised in the area as it's simply not usable unless you like changing buses and paying multiple operators.

Could imagine that's why usage is low as people simply just don't use them. Making the route longer won't help matters neither.

Might be psychological then, as the 25's current timetable and journey duration from Chester - Newcastle, isn't that far off the 21 trip time between the same points.
They're pretty much the same. 
The only difference being is that the one along the top road isn't as frequent as the one along the bottom road.

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(28 May 2020, 8:28 pm)LeeCalder wrote I'd argue that the link to the hospital is well used, and it's simply that it fits the frequency they want for Harlow Green, if anything.

28 is once an hour. The rest of the services are all very frequent.

The 25 sits in the middle at every 30.

It's a cost cutting measure. They've saved money by re-routing a bus which already runs every half an hour, and meh, if people want the QE sod them, they can just change buses. Simple enough isn't it?!

Pre-covid, bus use has been down year on year. Is it really any wonder when essential links are being chopped left, right and centre.

Who would clart on getting two buses, adding christ knows how long onto their journey there and back (when it was previously 15 minutes each way) when they could just get a taxi! 

That's the thing. If there's two buses an hour now and apparently it's not being used enough - there's not much chance of numbers rising if the journey is made more difficult.

Some people might remember me used to be on here a few years ago and have resurrected my old account! Been viewing the threads since just before covid-19. Had to come back and post about the service changes which I was surprised by. Hard to tell what’s definitely designed to be ‘temporary’ and what will stay in place all being well. Long post incoming...

X20 going to Langley Park is said to be an attempt to offer cross city connections through Durham; which could be popular but its a long route and while Carville to the Arnison Centre maybe popular, it surely it goes against what X-Lines is all about? Can’t help but think it’s a temporary measure. Without bordering too much in service suggestions but I wonder if curtailing the 20 at Sunderland and having two buses each hour extend to Langley from Durham. As someone else said the 60 could replace the 20 between Sunderland and Shields. It would certainly fit the Drifter brand quite well too.

The 55 being taken out of Hartlepool has somewhat surprised me. Although I don’t think it was a massively well used link and Arriva do have dominance with an every 15 minute service from Peterlee to Hartlepool. The Wingate/Hutton Henry extension makes sense and restores an hourly frequency which was cut back when the first Middlesbrough-Sunderland X7 was introduced iirc. It does seem like the other 55 that stops short at Peterlee could be used for an extension in the future.

The 71 being extended to Seaham, replacing the 238, is something I had as a suggestion sometime ago! Not sure I ever did post it. It seems like the 238 may be gone forever, so this might a change that’ll stay. It certainly opens up nice connections to get to the coast or the cricket ground and a quick change of buses to Dalton Park or Beamish, should that link remain in place longer term. It’s also interesting that they’re running some of the 71s to/from the Spectrum Business Park in Dawdon I wonder if that’s down to some feedback?

I’m surprised to see the 61 back in Murton though, I wonder if this is purely to do with the fact they’re changing frequencies? Murton-Sunderland still every 20 minutes with Sunderland-Hebburn down to half hourly? Or was their reliability concerns pre-covid? This one seems to goes against what they’ve done with the 1B/55/71/X20 changes with merging routes and absorbing smaller routes into bigger ones.

Some of the changes haven’t been explained brilliant, which I assume is become they’ve been rushed out quickly. For example the Crusader changes; it seems to suggest that the 26 is Jarrow to Shields only at all times but it doesn’t mention that on Sundays the 26 does its current full route to Newcastle.

Have to agree about 25 changes too, changing at Wrekenton isn’t exactly ideal it’s hardly a major town centre/bus interchange. Fine if you know the area I suppose, but can certainly see that putting people off. Seems to have caused a few Facebook comments too and removing direct public transport links to the hospital for part of a community during the biggest health crisis in a generation isn’t ideally mind. Not that anyone should be travelling on a bus with Covid-19 symptoms but it’s the irony.

I also think both the X6/X7 should serve Dalton Park again once leisure facilities and shops open, I didn’t understand that at the time. I’m pleased they aren’t interworking with the X20 anymore it seems; seemed a lot of late running buses at the end of last year. I’m starting to think the X6/X7 will be interworking with something else at Sunderland given it’s seemingly been removed from XLINES branding while X20 retains it even with the Langley extension and the fact it specifically mentions using larger single deck buses, X6/X7/55 maybe?

(28 May 2020, 10:24 pm)Drifter60 wrote Some people might remember me used to be on here a few years ago and have resurrected my old account! Been viewing the threads since just before covid-19. Had to come back and post about the service changes which I was surprised by. Hard to tell what’s definitely designed to be ‘temporary’ and what will stay in place all being well. Long post incoming...

X20 going to Langley Park is said to be an attempt to offer cross city connections through Durham; which could be popular but its a long route and while Carville to the Arnison Centre maybe popular, it surely it goes against what X-Lines is all about? Can’t help but think it’s a temporary measure. Without bordering too much in service suggestions but I wonder if curtailing the 20 at Sunderland and having two buses each hour extend to Langley from Durham. As someone else said the 60 could replace the 20 between Sunderland and Shields. It would certainly fit the Drifter brand quite well too.

The 55 being taken out of Hartlepool has somewhat surprised me. Although I don’t think it was a massively well used link and Arriva do have dominance with an every 15 minute service from Peterlee to Hartlepool. The Wingate/Hutton Henry extension makes sense and restores an hourly frequency which was cut back when the first Middlesbrough-Sunderland X7 was introduced iirc. It does seem like the other 55 that stops short at Peterlee could be used for an extension in the future.

The 71 being extended to Seaham, replacing the 238, is something I had as a suggestion sometime ago! Not sure I ever did post it. It seems like the 238 may be gone forever, so this might a change that’ll stay. It certainly opens up nice connections to get to the coast or the cricket ground and a quick change of buses to Dalton Park or Beamish, should that link remain in place longer term. It’s also interesting that they’re running some of the 71s to/from the Spectrum Business Park in Dawdon I wonder if that’s down to some feedback?

I’m surprised to see the 61 back in Murton though, I wonder if this is purely to do with the fact they’re changing frequencies? Murton-Sunderland still every 20 minutes with Sunderland-Hebburn down to half hourly? Or was their reliability concerns pre-covid? This one seems to goes against what they’ve done with the 1B/55/71/X20 changes with merging routes and absorbing smaller routes into bigger ones.

Some of the changes haven’t been explained brilliant, which I assume is become they’ve been rushed out quickly. For example the Crusader changes; it seems to suggest that the 26 is Jarrow to Shields only at all times but it doesn’t mention that on Sundays the 26 does its current full route to Newcastle.

Have to agree about 25 changes too, changing at Wrekenton isn’t exactly ideal it’s hardly a major town centre/bus interchange. Fine if you know the area I suppose, but can certainly see that putting people off. Seems to have caused a few Facebook comments too and removing direct public transport links to the hospital for part of a community during the biggest health crisis in a generation isn’t ideally mind. Not that anyone should be travelling on a bus with Covid-19 symptoms but it’s the irony.

I also think both the X6/X7 should serve Dalton Park again once leisure facilities and shops open, I didn’t understand that at the time. I’m pleased they aren’t interworking with the X20 anymore it seems; seemed a lot of late running buses at the end of last year. I’m starting to think the X6/X7 will be interworking with something else at Sunderland given it’s seemingly been removed from XLINES branding while X20 retains it even with the Langley extension and the fact it specifically mentions using larger single deck buses, X6/X7/55 maybe?

All of the changes are permanent, apart from some of the night/Saturday and Sunday timetables, which are only temporary until the demand etc comes back so i doubt these changes will revert back to normal (such as the 14 and X20 being changed to single services again)


The X6/X7 are temporarily getting larger single deckers for social distancing, theres 3 spare Citaro's from the 26/27 from the 1st June, i think those spare Citaros could be allocated to the X6/X7 for the time-being or maybe 3 GNE branded Citaro's more so to keep the same specs as the solo's, they're likely to get solo's back after everythings back to normal.

X20.. my bet is it'll be allocated the Red Kite streetlights when they become free.

I'm not surprised about the changes to the 25. While I agree that the link to the hospital from Barley Mow is a one that's a shame to lose, GNE are looking to protect their interests on Durham Road.

I know from experience that Old Durham Road is safe territory for GNE and many passengers would let a 25 (even when it was the X25) go by empty from Wrekenton or the QE when there's a busy X1 behind for some reason.

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Not sure the people of Langley Park would appreciate an even longer journey into town!

Wistfully stuck in the 90s

Hold on! Are they not going to get a longer journey time anyway diverting the bust from along Durham road to around the houses on harlow green then up the bank next to the gold medal???

Changes from Monday 1 June
UPDATE: Following discussions with stakeholders, extra journeys will continue to run on these sections of routes:

Services will continue to operate on Tunstall Bank Estate in Sunderland, with service 938 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will be continuing to operate between Barley Mow, Portmeads and The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Gateshead, with service 925 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will continue to operate between Hebburn and South Tyneside General Hospital, with service H2 running approximately hourly between 7.30am and 4.30pm

(29 May 2020, 5:08 pm)LeeCalder wrote Changes from Monday 1 June
UPDATE: Following discussions with stakeholders, extra journeys will continue to run on these sections of routes:

Services will continue to operate on Tunstall Bank Estate in Sunderland, with service 938 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will be continuing to operate between Barley Mow, Portmeads and The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Gateshead, with service 925 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will continue to operate between Hebburn and South Tyneside General Hospital, with service H2 running approximately hourly between 7.30am and 4.30pm

At this point the service changes almost seem like a pointless exercise if they're simply going to restore the links through these nondescript replacements. I wonder if they're only temporary until the coronavirus issue is over or are they permanent? If it's the latter I doubt it'll be long before they're withdrawn following in the footsteps of services of a similar ilk like the H1 and 197.

(29 May 2020, 5:08 pm)LeeCalder wrote Changes from Monday 1 June
UPDATE: Following discussions with stakeholders, extra journeys will continue to run on these sections of routes:

Services will continue to operate on Tunstall Bank Estate in Sunderland, with service 938 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will be continuing to operate between Barley Mow, Portmeads and The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Gateshead, with service 925 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will continue to operate between Hebburn and South Tyneside General Hospital, with service H2 running approximately hourly between 7.30am and 4.30pm

Good

(29 May 2020, 5:08 pm)LeeCalder wrote Changes from Monday 1 June
UPDATE: Following discussions with stakeholders, extra journeys will continue to run on these sections of routes:

Services will continue to operate on Tunstall Bank Estate in Sunderland, with service 938 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will be continuing to operate between Barley Mow, Portmeads and The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Gateshead, with service 925 running approximately hourly between 8am and 6pm
Services will continue to operate between Hebburn and South Tyneside General Hospital, with service H2 running approximately hourly between 7.30am and 4.30pm

Who is operating these services as i cant see it being GNE?

(29 May 2020, 6:37 pm)N1cholas wrote Who is operating these services as i cant see it being GNE?

Go North East. On the website.

(29 May 2020, 6:59 pm)LeeCalder wrote Go North East. On the website.

I never noticed 

(29 May 2020, 5:55 pm)peter wrote At this point the service changes almost seem like a pointless exercise if they're simply going to restore the links through these nondescript replacements. I wonder if they're only temporary until the coronavirus issue is over or are they permanent? If it's the latter I doubt it'll be long before they're withdrawn following in the footsteps of services of a similar ilk like the H1 and 197.

H1 still in operation. Nexus contracted to Gateshead Central.   The H2 will never succeed as doing very similar to H1 in serving Jarrow and Hebburn and as H1 carries bare minimum passengers the H2 will be no different.