(29 Apr 2020, 10:07 am)6049 wrote If this service was reintroduced it would almost certainly stay as the X88 which currently runs between Concord and the Metrocentre via the Galleries

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There's never been any demand for a MetroCentre bus from Sunderland, that's why the X88 has been carved up more times than a Christmas turkey.

(29 Apr 2020, 10:33 am)LeeCalder wrote There's never been any demand for a MetroCentre bus from Sunderland, that's why the X88 has been carved up more times than a Christmas turkey.

Certain boards on the 183 started and ended in Sunderland (think they were more positioning runs more than anything) and the 188 ran to the Metrocentre too for a period.

Ultimately, I reckon it's easier, quicker and cheaper for the people of Sunderland to drive to the metrocentre - assuming they want to go there - rather than use a service which only covers a proportion of the population in and out of the city. For the majority, that means using a connection and I can't see that being too appealing.

(29 Apr 2020, 10:33 am)LeeCalder wrote There's never been any demand for a MetroCentre bus from Sunderland, that's why the X88 has been carved up more times than a Christmas turkey.

I agree, however potentially opening an express link to the Galleries from Sunderland could possibly a handy link for some people if properly marketed - before continuingas normal to the Metrocentre. Bringing it under X-Lines and running it throughout the week - even with a limited service for a trial period would be interesting. 

However, given the current climate I'm well aware this would definitely be pie in the sky for the foreseeable future.

(29 Apr 2020, 12:17 pm)6049 wrote I agree, however potentially opening an express link to the Galleries from Sunderland could possibly a handy link for some people if properly marketed. Bringing it under X-Lines and running it throughout the week - even with a limited service for a trial period would be interesting. 

However, given the current climate I'm well aware this would definitely be pie in the sky for the foreseeable future.

There used to be an express service between Sunderland and the galleries, but there’s no demand to have an express service these days between those 2 points, yes many years ago but not now


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Surely anyone who wants to go from Sunderland to the Metro Centre would either go via the Metro and X66 or direct on the hourly train service. Both which would be much quicker than using a bus direct via Washington.

(29 Apr 2020, 12:17 pm)6049 wrote I agree, however potentially opening an express link to the Galleries from Sunderland could possibly a handy link for some people if properly marketed - before continuingas normal to the Metrocentre. Bringing it under X-Lines and running it throughout the week - even with a limited service for a trial period would be interesting. 

However, given the current climate I'm well aware this would definitely be pie in the sky for the foreseeable future.

I wonder if it would detract from the 2s and the 8?
Saying that, I wonder if there is enough demand point to point for an express between Sunderland and Washington?
Whichever route it took between the two, it would still mean the vast majority of its passengers would need to use the bus to get to the town/city centres to use it anyway). 

There's been a few in the past (X2, X4, X6, X85 plus the Concord - Sunderland ones - X96?) which had a handful of calling points and they didn't last the test of time.

I consider myself a green person but i wouldn't get any public transport to the metro centre. Just no room for shopping bags.

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I believe concord was served by X95, Newcastle to Seaham? Via concord and Sunderland. Was a great bus service.

(29 Apr 2020, 12:57 pm)Andreos1 wrote I wonder if it would detract from the 2s and the 8?
Saying that, I wonder if there is enough demand point to point for an express between Sunderland and Washington?
Whichever route it took between the two, it would still mean the vast majority of its passengers would need to use the bus to get to the town/city centres to use it anyway). 

There's been a few in the past (X2, X4, X6, X85 plus the Concord - Sunderland ones - X96?) which had a handful of calling points and they didn't last the test of time.

Service 8 used to be the X8, service 2 series used to be the X2, there’s no demand for an express service between Sunderland and Washington.

Yea the X95 used to go via Concord, X95 to Seaham Parkside and the X96 to Seaham Harbour but got extended to Peterlee when service 233 got withdrawn between Seaham and Peterlee, new every half hourly service X2 slowly killed off the X95 as GNE wanted all express services via Galleries


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(29 Apr 2020, 1:31 pm)cbma06 wrote Service 8 used to be the X8, service 2 series used to be the X2, there’s no demand for an express service between Sunderland and Washington. 

Yea the X95 used to go via Concord, X95 to Seaham Parkside and the X96 to Seaham Harbour but got extended to Peterlee when service 233 got withdrawn between Seaham and Peterlee, new every half hourly service X2 slowly killed off the X95 as GNE wanted all express services via Galleries


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Im not sure there's no demand for an express service between the two points, I just don't think it would work. 

Assuming you live in North Sunderland. It is still going to be quicker and easier to get a 56 and then a 4. Than it would be to go to Park Lane and come back on yourself. 
Someone, living in Fatfield but working in Sunderland City centre would probably find it quicker getting a 2 or an 8 all the way; than a bus to the Galleries and then wait for an express.

To make it quick, would mean limiting the number of places it stops. Which would then limit how many fares it would take on short hops, which could supplement the longer fares and boost viability. 

As attractive as it may be for some, I think any failure would be a legacy of the current network model.

(29 Apr 2020, 1:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote Im not sure there's no demand for an express service between the two points, I just don't think it would work. 

Assuming you live in North Sunderland. It is still going to be quicker and easier to get a 56 and then a 4. Than it would be to go to Park Lane and come back on yourself. 
Someone, living in Fatfield but working in Sunderland City centre would probably find it quicker getting a 2 or an 8 all the way; than a bus to the Galleries and then wait for an express.

To make it quick, would mean limiting the number of places it stops. Which would then limit how many fares it would take on short hops, which could supplement the longer fares and boost viability. 

As attractive as it may be for some, I think any failure would be a legacy of the current network model.

eh?

I think you read my post wrong, unless you replied to the wrong post


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(29 Apr 2020, 2:00 pm)cbma06 wrote eh?

I think you read my post wrong, unless you replied to the wrong post


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Lost me cbma

(29 Apr 2020, 1:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote Im not sure there's no demand for an express service between the two points, I just don't think it would work. 

Assuming you live in North Sunderland. It is still going to be quicker and easier to get a 56 and then a 4. Than it would be to go to Park Lane and come back on yourself. 
Someone, living in Fatfield but working in Sunderland City centre would probably find it quicker getting a 2 or an 8 all the way; than a bus to the Galleries and then wait for an express.

To make it quick, would mean limiting the number of places it stops. Which would then limit how many fares it would take on short hops, which could supplement the longer fares and boost viability. 

As attractive as it may be for some, I think any failure would be a legacy of the current network model.

I think the old Newcastle/Washington - Sunderland services started to suffer when the metro extension to Sunderland opened in 2002. They were very popular before then. Even still the X2 always seemed to have decent loadings, even until it was axed. If I remember rightly the Washington to Sunderlandpart of the X2 became was merged with the 773/4 and became the Silver Arrows 2A/C and was initially given a 10 minute frequency. I think there must be some demand for a Newcastle to Sunderland express service as Stagecoach's X24 has been going for a while now, so I think Go North East should never have scrapped the X2.

(29 Apr 2020, 7:12 pm)Washingtonian wrote I think the old Newcastle/Washington - Sunderland services started to suffer when the metro extension to Sunderland opened in 2002. They were very popular before then. Even still the X2 always seemed to have decent loadings, even until it was axed. If I remember rightly the Washington to Sunderlandpart of the X2 became was merged with the 773/4 and became the Silver Arrows 2A/C and was initially given a 10 minute frequency. I think there must be some demand for a Newcastle to Sunderland express service as Stagecoach's X24 has been going for a while now, so I think Go North East should never have scrapped the X2.

I could imagine the biggest problem with a bus going from Sunderland to Newcastle is the opposite flow. There will be next to no demand for anyone wanting to use a GNE direct from Newcastle to Sunderland so you might have 20 people using the bus going in one direction if it's empty the other way then it's a bit pointless. GNE don't really have a network North or West of Newcastle and the places they do serve, the metro is there which is quicker.

Stagecoach on the otherhand have a network in the whole of the West End / parts of North Tyneside who may already have Tyne and Wear ticket so could use the bus for no extra cost otherwise it's only £3.50 or so more a week for Sunderland aswell who maybe tempted to use it.

It's a similar story with Metro Centre buses, it's all good having 20 people heading there, but that bus will travel back with no-one on for a few hours with a similar pattern the opposite way later in the day.

(29 Apr 2020, 7:12 pm)Washingtonian wrote I think the old Newcastle/Washington - Sunderland services started to suffer when the metro extension to Sunderland opened in 2002. They were very popular before then. Even still the X2 always seemed to have decent loadings, even until it was axed. If I remember rightly the Washington to Sunderlandpart of the X2 became was merged with the 773/4 and became the Silver Arrows 2A/C and was initially given a 10 minute frequency. I think there must be some demand for a Newcastle to Sunderland express service as Stagecoach's X24 has been going for a while now, so I think Go North East should never have scrapped the X2.

Aye, there was the circular 773/774 which was an amalgamation of the 638 and 777 south of the river and the likes of the 184/185 on the north.
They then curtailed them to run south of the river only as the 73/74 and then not long after came up with the 2 series.
Even they were changed and butchered up before we see what we have now.

I can't remember when the X2 was axed (maybe it coincided with the arrival of the first lot of B9's on the X1).

(30 Apr 2020, 9:21 am)Andreos1 wrote Aye, there was the circular 773/774 which was an amalgamation of the 638 and 777 south of the river and the likes of the 184/185 on the north.
They then curtailed them to run south of the river only as the 73/74 and then not long after came up with the 2 series.
Even they were changed and butchered up before we see what we have now.

I can't remember when the X2 was axed (maybe it coincided with the arrival of the first lot of B9's on the X1).

The X2 was axed when the 2A/2C were introduced wasn't it? With the X1 going every 10 minutes too?

I think there may have been a bit of overlap with the 2A/2C and X2. The attached suggests there was.

I've double checked timetables to confirm and the X2 and X8 ran the same route between the Galleries and Sunderland (current 8A route via Royal Hospital)

(30 Apr 2020, 12:01 pm)S813 FVK wrote I think there may have been a bit of overlap with the 2A/2C and X2. The attached suggests there was.

I've double checked timetables to confirm and the X2 and X8 ran the same route between the Galleries and Sunderland (current 8A route via Royal Hospital)

The X2 was barely any quicker than the others between Sunderland and Washington according to the timetable. Must admit it seemed faster.

(30 Apr 2020, 8:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote The X2 was barely any quicker than the others between Sunderland and Washington according to the timetable. Must admit it seemed faster.

I think it took the quicker route in/out of Washington? Pretty much Hastings Hill roundabout > A19 > A1231 > Galleries > then current X1 route... the Waterview Park loop was added in later on, but cannot remember whether this was at all times or just the later runs?

I'm not local to the area, so don't know if there'd be demand, but could a Consett - Tow Law - Crook - Bishop service work? The southern part would compete with Arriva which isn't ideal, but much of the route is quite an obvious gap in the bus network. The timings on current services along the corridor would indicate a journey time of about 58 minutes is possible - if you can shave a few minutes off you might be able to get away with a PVR of 2 for an hourly service. I would probably have it as part of the Venture network, numbered V7 or V8, because while it isn't a Consett town service, the V9 goes up to Chopwell but still forms part of the brand.

At present service 764 from Weardale is the nearest equivalent to this proposed route. However, this terminates in Wolsingham, a much less significant destination than Crook or Bishy, has a fairly sparse timetable, and doesn't have very much marketing. Would a more regular service to busier destinations be able to sustain itself?

(08 May 2020, 1:11 am)BoroLad wrote I'm not local to the area, so don't know if there'd be demand, but could a Consett - Tow Law - Crook - Bishop service work? The southern part would compete with Arriva which isn't ideal, but much of the route is quite an obvious gap in the bus network. The timings on current services along the corridor would indicate a journey time of about 58 minutes is possible - if you can shave a few minutes off you might be able to get away with a PVR of 2 for an hourly service. I would probably have it as part of the Venture network, numbered V7 or V8, because while it isn't a Consett town service, the V9 goes up to Chopwell but still forms part of the brand.

At present service 764 from Weardale is the nearest equivalent to this proposed route. However, this terminates in Wolsingham, a much less significant destination than Crook or Bishy, has a fairly sparse timetable, and doesn't have very much marketing. Would a more regular service to busier destinations be able to sustain itself?

I've thought about that as well as it's straight up the A68 although I can't really see there being that much demand with there being sod all in between Tow Law and Consett (for most of the journey anyway) and very little reason for leisure trips between Bishop and Consett. I could only see it being viable as a commuter service in the mornings and evenings as I know a few people who do that commute. It'd be quite interesting to see the data for the people who currently do that journey (ie. X21 then X5/X15). I think I've only ever been to Consett once on the bus, and that was because it was the only Argos store to have what I wanted! 

If they were to introduce a service linking them I think it would be better off being branded as an Xlines service as most of the journey would be non-stop and would follow the same route you'd take in the car

I'd gladly take it over the X21 even if it takes longer because the views are quite nice (The A68 I mean, not Consett ). It would also bring back a GNE connection between Bishop and Crook which would be very handy for me.

Then again, I would say there's probably little demand for a service between Hexham and Consett yet there is a service running between them, even if it is very infrequent (and by the looks of it subsidised). I mean, if they introduced a service between Hexham and Bishop that would probably be my new favourite route!

I did the AM trip of the 689 a couple of years ago now and it was quite popular, albeit mostly with OAPs with their passes. I think being the only service through some of the intermediate villages helps.

Is there any routes that could be diverted through or extended to the team Valley.

My only idea, which is still a work in progress is this: [attachment=9395]

Just a thought I had following the upcoming service changes from the 1st of June, it seems that the replacement of the 88/88a with the 9 and 26 hasn't really worked and as such I'd propose chopping and changing a few routes that are at a loose end as a result of the changes. The section of the 9 from Jarrow to Lukes Lane would be added on the 26 (essentially recreating the 88) allowing the H1/H2 hospital services to be withdrawn. Meanwhile the southern section of the 9 could be linked up with X6/7 now that they've been disconnected from the X20. Connections would be available between both services at Jarrow bus station with generous layovers to account for delays. 

Service 26 - South Shields - Jarrow - Lukes Lane
Essentially service 88/88a brought back but at the present half hourly frequencies, replaces services H1/H2. 

PVR 5
South Shields  54 24
Jarrow             31 01
Jarrow             35 05
Lukes Lane      59 29

Lukes Lane      00 30
Jarrow             26 56
Jarrow             30 00
South Shields  11  41

Service X6/7 - Peterlee - Sunderland - Jarrow 
The X6/7 extended to Jarrow in place of service 9. If the services are permanently removed from the X-lines network then would instead be numbered the 9A/B

PVR 6           X6 X7
Peterlee       03 38
Sunderland  38 08
Sunderland  42 12
Jarrow          26 56

                      X7 X6
Jarrow          36 06
Sunderland  18 48
Sunderland  22 52
Peterlee        52 26

Service changes
Service 4- Extended to Metrocentre along 58 route to Gateshead and then X66 route to Metrocentre. Run by Riverside & Washington depots. Will run every 12 minutes. 
Service 11- Merge with service Q3 and will run every 20 minutes. Will now start on Whitley Bay Seafront. Run by Riverside & Percy Main depots.
Allocation
Service 4 (PVR 18)- 5283-5284, 5293-5297 & 5358-5368.
Service 11 (PVR 13)- 5381-5385, 5387-5388 & 8310-8315.
Vehicle movements
691-694 to Riverside to operate services M6/M7/M8
5238 to Riverside
5367-5368 to Riverside for Connections4
5377-5380 to be repainted into corporate liverey. 5380 will transfer to Percy Main
5381-5385 & 5387-5388 to Percy Main for service 11.
5391-5394 & 5452 to be repainted for Citylink service 57
5486 to Washington

(30 May 2020, 7:26 pm)michaelb wrote Service changes
Service 4- Extended to Metrocentre along 58 route to Gateshead and then X66 route to Metrocentre. Run by Riverside & Washington depots. Will run every 12 minutes. 
Service 11- Merge with service Q3 and will run every 20 minutes. Will now start on Whitley Bay Seafront. Run by Riverside & Percy Main depots.
Allocation
Service 4 (PVR 18)- 5283-5284, 5293-5297 & 5358-5368.
Service 11 (PVR 13)- 5381-5385, 5387-5388 & 8310-8315.
Vehicle movements
691-694 to Riverside to operate services M6/M7/M8
5238 to Riverside
5367-5368 to Riverside for Connections4
5377-5380 to be repainted into corporate liverey. 5380 will transfer to Percy Main
5381-5385 & 5387-5388 to Percy Main for service 11.
5391-5394 & 5452 to be repainted for Citylink service 57
5486 to Washington

The 11 doesn't need to be every 20 minutes. With the Q3 I'd personally extend it to do the 41 loop to Battle Hill and keep it every 15 minutes.

Then extend the 42/42A to do the Howdon loop part of the 41.

The 41 in it's current form is a bit of a waste of time, without many people travelling throughout. It also makes the 42/42A have a bit of a point why it's branded Little Coasters since currently it doesn't serve the sea nor duplicates the Coaster at all.

Even known it's the newest brand by god is it an awful one and doesn't make sense especially now the 19 is part of it aswell where it's the only bus route in most of the places it serves that doesn't go to the coast. The branding doesn't even look good neither imo and also has the tagline, 'Frequent services in and around North Tyneside early until late 7 days a week' which isn't true since they don't run on evenings or Sundays as Little Coasters.

Service 5

From Jarrow, extend to Newcastle via 27 route.

NEW service 6

South Shields-Jarrow (26 route), then direct to Campbell Park Road & Lukes Lane Estate, then via Finchale Road to Hebburn. At buses continue as service 9 to Boldon & Sunderland

New service 7

Renumbered from 27.

Service 9

At Lukes Lane, buses continue (as service 6) direct to Jarrow, then via 26 route to South Shields.

Service 27

renumbered to service 7.

Services 5 & 7 operated by Riverside using ex Red Arrow B9's, branded as VFM buses.

Services 6 & 9 operated by Deptford using Crusader branded Mercedes Citaros.

Services 5 & 7 Monday to Saturday daytimes, each operate every 30 mins (combined 15 mins Newcastle-Jarrow)
Sunday daytimes 2 per hour (7), hourly (5), combined every 20 mins Newcastle - Jarrow.
Evening services each run hourly, giving a bus every 30 mins Newcastle-Jarrow.

Services 6 & 9 each run every 30 mins, except after 20:00 when they run hourly.

Services H1 & H2 would be withdrawn.

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Service 925 withdrawn.

Service 68 extended from Wrekenton to Birtley & Chester le Street

service 68 would serve Easedale Gardens in both directions.

Revert the 41 back to the way it was,42/42A to run to the Cobalt,that is all

Some of these suggestions are good, but some of the services listed have been contracted out to other operators so GNE would probably find it difficult to put them into effect

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Extend 30 to Durham to Replace 13 (Sort of Old 712). Could also be merged with 31 or 32.

X7 Between Newcastle, Metrocentre, The Galleries, Lambton, Ayton, Chester-Le-Street, Pelton Fell, Blackhouse, Burnhope, Maiden Law and Lanchester (Sort of Old 752).

55 extended back to Hartlepool (still via Wingate and StationTown)