(17 Jun 2020, 11:33 am)Andreos1 wrote Does the pre-0930 acceptance of passes not lead to increased payments like?
This condition placed up on the LA's as a result of the CBSSG, is just one example of the amount increasing.

But don't the larger operators receive a fixed amount rather than being paid per ticket, so increasing the hours of acceptance is unlikely to result in increased revenue from them?



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(17 Jun 2020, 11:47 am)streetdeckfan wrote But don't the larger operators receive a fixed amount rather than being paid per ticket, so increasing the hours of acceptance is unlikely to result in increased revenue from them?



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I've taken this from the guidance docs.

• compensate operators for the revenue forgone – i.e. the revenue they would have received from those concessionary passengers who would otherwise have travelled and paid for a (full fare or discounted) ticket in the absence of a scheme; and 
• pay operators any net additional costs they have incurred as a result of the scheme – this could for instance include the cost of carrying additional generated passengers (i.e. concessionary 
passholders that would not have travelled in the absence of the scheme) or other costs that would not have been incurred in the absence of the concession such as scheme administration costs. 
Those costs are net of additional revenue.
TOTAL REIMBURSEMENT DUE = Revenue Forgone [R] + Net Additional costs [A]

 

 You know those expensive single tickets that keep being mentioned?

Nexus have issued the invitation to tender for Newcastle and North Tyneside secured bus services. The requirement is minimum of Euro 5 with capacity of 23, 36 & 49 for a contract start date of 28/3/2021

(06 Dec 2020, 12:23 pm)GuyParkRoyal wrote Nexus have issued the invitation to tender for Newcastle and North Tyneside secured bus services. The requirement is minimum of Euro 5 with capacity of 23, 36 & 49 for a contract start date of 28/3/2021

I hope the daytime bus company that does the services commercially during the day doesn’t get the evening or Sunday services under secured contract

If the bus company does the daytime service and say it’s evening service is not viable to run, why should the taxpayer funds the evening service for the same operator to still run it, I thought GNE mentioned awhile ago that there were prepared to take back some evening services, Has GNE taken back any of the evening/Sunday services which there mentioned awhile ago?


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(06 Dec 2020, 1:10 pm)cbma06 wrote I hope the daytime bus company that does the services commercially during the day doesn’t get the evening or Sunday services under secured contract

If the bus company does the daytime service and say it’s evening service is not viable to run, why should the taxpayer funds the evening service for the same operator to still run it, I thought GNE mentioned awhile ago that there were prepared to take back some evening services, Has GNE taken back any of the evening/Sunday services which there mentioned awhile ago?

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Why not?

Both Go North East and Stagecoach have evening/Sunday services in this batch of tenders, and if another operator (regardless of who it is) is awarded the contract, the only person that loses out is the customer. It is complex and difficult for customers to understand, and quite often the daytime operators' tickets aren't valid on the evening/Sunday service (unless they pay Nexus to accept them). The daytime operator certainly doesn't lose out if they do not operate this contract currently (which they don't, Gateshead Central Taxis do) as they've already made the decision not to operate them on a commercial basis as they've deemed those journeys not commercially viable.

There's no bias at all here, as I'd argue the same even if Go North East operated the Stagecoach service 32A on evenings and Sundays, despite the fact that when Go North East did operate this contract last, they allocated Euro 6 Wright Streetlites, which are newer and of a higher customer specification (Wi-Fi, USB charging points and next stop announcements) than the Stagecoach buses allocated during the day.

(06 Dec 2020, 1:10 pm)cbma06 wrote I hope the daytime bus company that does the services commercially during the day doesn’t get the evening or Sunday services under secured contract

If the bus company does the daytime service and say it’s evening service is not viable to run, why should the taxpayer funds the evening service for the same operator to still run it, I thought GNE mentioned awhile ago that there were prepared to take back some evening services, Has GNE taken back any of the evening/Sunday services which there mentioned awhile ago?

This may surprise some but for North Tyneside it would be better for GNE or Arriva to get them really. The tendering route doesn't work  imo especially on such short terms it doesn't entice anyone to provide a good service as you could just lose the thing after a year anyway so it's pointless.

I wish Nexus would work with the operators and actually try and build the services so in the long term the aim is they're no longer subsidised or at least they're not paying at much. In Whitley in particular it would be much better for services such as the W2 etc to be full time operated by either of them so the connections are there right now having a GCT to the centre of Whitley then having to change to either the Metro or another operator doesn't do nothing for no-one and they carry fresh air. Heck even work one further and have talks with the likes of GNE in extending their services to cover the routes; the 1, 11 or 306 could easily be extended to cover the W1/W1A/W2 routes; the 57/57A and W3 could easily be merged together (going via Hillheads), just as example, at least then your providing new links to all those places something that the current tendering can't do and overtime the subsidy could drop (something that won't happen atm).

In return they get to the 11, 19 and 41 subsidised to try and build a network that works.

(06 Dec 2020, 5:40 pm)Storx wrote This may surprise some but for North Tyneside it would be better for GNE or Arriva to get them really. The tendering route doesn't work  imo especially on such short terms it doesn't entice anyone to provide a good service as you could just lose the thing after a year anyway so it's pointless.

I wish Nexus would work with the operators and actually try and build the services so in the long term the aim is they're no longer subsidised or at least they're not paying at much. In Whitley in particular it would be much better for services such as the W2 etc to be full time operated by either of them so the connections are there right now having a GCT to the centre of Whitley then having to change to either the Metro or another operator doesn't do nothing for no-one and they carry fresh air. Heck even work one further and have talks with the likes of GNE in extending their services to cover the routes; the 1, 11 or 306 could easily be extended to cover the W1/W1A/W2 routes; the 57/57A and W3 could easily be merged together (going via Hillheads), just as example, at least then your providing new links to all those places something that the current tendering can't do and overtime the subsidy could drop (something that won't happen atm).

In return they get to the 11, 19 and 41 subsidised to try and build a network that works.

W1/1a/2 are estate services. Absolutely no way of getting a full sized vehicle around them.

(06 Dec 2020, 2:15 pm)Dan wrote Why not?

Both Go North East and Stagecoach have evening/Sunday services in this batch of tenders, and if another operator (regardless of who it is) is awarded the contract, the only person that loses out is the customer. It is complex and difficult for customers to understand, and quite often the daytime operators' tickets aren't valid on the evening/Sunday service (unless they pay Nexus to accept them). The daytime operator certainly doesn't lose out if they do not operate this contract currently (which they don't, Gateshead Central Taxis do) as they've already made the decision not to operate them on a commercial basis as they've deemed those journeys not commercially viable.

There's no bias at all here, as I'd argue the same even if Go North East operated the Stagecoach service 32A on evenings and Sundays, despite the fact that when Go North East did operate this contract last, they allocated Euro 6 Wright Streetlites, which are newer and of a higher customer specification (Wi-Fi, USB charging points and next stop announcements) than the Stagecoach buses allocated during the day.

As well as the extra work, that also acts as great marketing for GNE as it gives the passenger a direct comparison between two operators, something that is quite difficult unless they operate the same route. 

It's the same situation with the GNE operated 86 to Toft Hill, the couple times I've needed to go to Toft Hill, I've waited for the evening GNE service. The buses are nicer and the drivers are friendlier, I can imagine in that situation, someone's experience on the GNE service can impact whether they take the Arriva 6 or GNE X21 to Durham

(06 Dec 2020, 5:53 pm)NewcastleOne wrote W1/1a/2 are estate services. Absolutely no way of getting a full sized vehicle around them.

The 11 is a minibus aswell though? Could easily do the W1/W1A. The W2 is easily doable by full size buses, most the route used to be anyway with the 355 and it's all wide enough for them bar getting out of Westley Avenue Southbound or turning around there. Could easily do a one way loop something like this on an extension to the 1 - https://goo.gl/maps/S4bxUnAifmtJw5jJ9. There's already the 51 along Claremont Gardens (or you could send the 1 along there aswell if your not bothered about the Spanish City link Southbound).

(06 Dec 2020, 1:10 pm)cbma06 wrote I hope the daytime bus company that does the services commercially during the day doesn’t get the evening or Sunday services under secured contract

If the bus company does the daytime service and say it’s evening service is not viable to run, why should the taxpayer funds the evening service for the same operator to still run it, I thought GNE mentioned awhile ago that there were prepared to take back some evening services, Has GNE taken back any of the evening/Sunday services which there mentioned awhile ago?


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A question to cbma06 - why should the daytime operator not be allowed to be awarded the evenings & Sunday journeys if they don’t think that those journeys will make any money?
 
Tendered bus services (outside London of course) are a problem. Firstly, the only reason they exist is because no operator thinks that the route (or the evening and Sunday journeys) will be commercially viable so they don't operate it. Bus operators are businesses and the only reason for any business to exist is to make a profit for the owners, so running bus services that run at loss will mean the business will be on a rapid downward slope to bankruptcy.
 
The local authority (Nexus in this case) then considers whether funding those journeys is an effective use of their limited resources, if they do, then they will want it to be run as cheaply as possible so that they can provide as many services as their budget will allow them to. Therefore, the operator that gets awarded the contract will be the one that puts in the cheapest bid.
 
If that happens to be the same operator as the daytime service then the customers might not notice any difference, although the fares on the tendered journeys might be different from the fares on the commercial journeys and the operator's multi journey tickets might be valid, it all depends on the way the contract is worded and how much Nexus is willing to pay?
 
However, if the operator is a different one, unless Nexus pays for the daytime operator's multi journey tickets to be accepted, then they won't be accepted.
 
It could be that the cheapest bid is submitted by the operator who runs the daytime commercial service. If they weren’t allowed to be awarded the contract, then Nexus would be breaking local authority financial rules by not taking the cheapest bid, and also they would have to spend more money on that service, therefore reducing the number of supported services that Nexus could support.

(06 Dec 2020, 6:16 pm)Storx wrote The 11 is a minibus aswell though? Could easily do the W1/W1A. The W2 is easily doable by full size buses, most the route used to be anyway with the 355 and it's all wide enough for them bar getting out of Westley Avenue Southbound or turning around there. Could easily do a one way loop something like this on an extension to the 1 - https://goo.gl/maps/S4bxUnAifmtJw5jJ9. There's already the 51 along Claremont Gardens (or you could send the 1 along there aswell if your not bothered about the Spanish City link Southbound).

You mentioned the 1 and 306 which is what I was pointing at.

Does anyone know what services are up for tender? And if not does anyone know if atleast the 6, 33, 333, 335 or 553 are up for tender?

(06 Dec 2020, 8:06 pm)NewcastleOne wrote You mentioned the 1 and 306 which is what I was pointing at.

Ah fair one, yeah definitely the 1 and 306 couldn't do the W1/W1A