(13 Jul 2020, 9:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote Imagine the media outcry when those essential workers who have to use the 25 to work, suddenly had a faff on getting there, 'cos their bus to work was re-routed during a global pandemic?

I'm not saying they did do it that way to prove a point, but you can see why some would have those suspicions.

The Wrekenton - Harlow Green/Low Fell link could have been saved in so many other different ways. Ways, that wouldn't have necessarily seen the introduction of a new service and associated costs, just to maintain the Birtley South - QE connection.

Having just had another look at the timetable and the slack in it, I can't believe they're not sending it in to Barley Mow to penetrate the estate and potentially pick up extra passengers. Ditto at the other end and Windy Nook.
There will be people in those areas, who will need to get to the hospital once this covid19 is over with - yet are being ignored.
You have people on shifts in those areas, who may use public transport - but are being ignored.

You've then got the dinner break and 2 hour gap in service which would disrupt flow too.

Yet people wonder why it doesn't work?

Here, here, totally agree with this point.

Whilst it's undoubtedly appreciated that hospital links have been saved (even more so by myself, who uses it!), there is no reason why it can't run through Barley Mow to provide further accessibility to those who require it most.

(14 Jul 2020, 10:03 am)deanmachine wrote Same thing is true about 938 in Sunderland, the only unique place it serves is Tunstall Bank Estate, it follows the 38 for most of it's journey, then ends up following the 39A through Esdale estate. In the case of the 938 especially, I don't see why they couldn't just pay GNE to extend the 38/38A back to Tunstall Bank, rather then have a bus just follow around commercial services before serving an estate that has 8 buses an hour on the main road 50 metres away. Complete waste of time.

Forgot about the 938 to be honest. There was another 9xx in Prudhoe. That didn't last long either. 
What is it about these services? Hmm...

(14 Jul 2020, 10:49 am)Andreos1 wrote Forgot about the 938 to be honest. There was another 9xx in Prudhoe. That didn't last long either. 
What is it about these services? Hmm...

Might be way off the mark but, there does seem a lot of complaining around links being cut, nexus then jump in with funding for additional routes like the 925 only for those complaining dont then use the route, which looks the case with the 925 & 938. Happy to be corrected.

(14 Jul 2020, 10:58 am)Stanleyone wrote Might be way off the mark but, there does seem a lot of complaining around links being cut, nexus then jump in with funding for additional routes like the 925 only for those complaining dont then use the route, which looks the case with the 925 & 938. Happy to be corrected.

The 925 is commercial as far as I'm aware. No funding at all. 
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...ls/554208/

I won't repeat my comments/thoughts from yesterday in too much detail, but with regard to the 925: schools are closed, hospitals have cancelled outpatients appointments and visitors; yet people seem surprised that the hourly 925 which was launched in the middle of a global pandemic, has a 2 hour lunchbreak and has a timetable that doesn't really work around shift patterns for essential workers - doesn't seem to carry anyone. 
Bonkers isn't it?

(14 Jul 2020, 10:58 am)Stanleyone wrote Might be way off the mark but, there does seem a lot of complaining around links being cut, nexus then jump in with funding for additional routes like the 925 only for those complaining dont then use the route, which looks the case with the 925 & 938. Happy to be corrected.

Again, repeating my comments from earlier, I certainly use it, frequently, and I was unashamedly very vocal about the change of route.

(14 Jul 2020, 11:21 am)LeeCalder wrote Again, repeating my comments from earlier, I certainly use it, frequently, and I was unashamedly very vocal about the change of route.

Out of interest when you use it, what are the passenger numbers like?

Tbh theres bigger problems than the 25, 'oooooo i have no direct bus now to the Q.E' blah blah blah, i can name some bigger problems right now

(15 Jul 2020, 9:14 am)V514DFT wrote Tbh theres bigger problems than the 25, 'oooooo i have no direct bus now to the Q.E' blah blah blah, i can name some bigger problems right now

What a ridiculous comment. Of course there’s bigger issues at play. There has been pre COVID and will be post COVID. Should we just stop debating or discussing anything? 

and anyway,,,why would an additional link to a hospital be remotely useful during a pandemic? 

Right,its not just the Q.E thats lost a direct link,but thats all you seem to bang on about is the 25,so frankly your comment is ridiculous,at what point did i say stop discussing or debating things,exactly,i didnt,so take your snotty remark elsewhere,what about Howdon losing the 42 and 42A to N.T.G.H?, theres Two Elderly peoples homes in close proximity to each other?, theres people that actually depended on that service,what walk to the Coast Road for the 308 or Battle Hill for the 309?,thats fine if your my age, what about those that are disabled and dont use taxis cus of cost? Likewise the elderly that still go out and about cus theyre able to?, so its not just users of the 25 that have fell victim to changes

(15 Jul 2020, 12:12 pm)V514DFT wrote Right,its not just the Q.E thats lost a direct link,but thats all you seem to bang on about is the 25,so frankly your comment is ridiculous,at what point did i say stop discussing or debating things,exactly,i didnt,so take your snotty remark elsewhere,what about Howdon losing the 42 and 42A to N.T.G.H?, theres Two Elderly peoples homes in close proximity to each other?, theres people that actually depended on that service,what walk to the Coast Road for the 308 or Battle Hill for the 309?,thats fine if your my age, what about those that are disabled and dont use taxis cus of cost? Likewise the elderly that still go out and about cus theyre able to?, so its not just users of the 25 that have fell victim to changes

I believe you’re confusing me with someone else. I’ve mentioned the 25 once or twice. Nobody said commercial pressures were limited to certain areas. Pre COVID nexus didn’t have a pot to proverbially urinate in and still doesn’t.

You said exactly what you said. If you’re cant grasp what you inferred then hey ho.

I'm sure I've said this before but I'll say it again I think the real reason why some areas are poorly served is because there are other areas which are way over served. While I can understand Go North East's constant focus on its core routes to a degree, its clearly causing other areas to be neglected. In my opinion the frequency of some of the core routes is the main issue, an example being the 21. Why does it need to be every 7/8 mins? There are more than enough services between Newcastle and Chester le Street and more than enough buses that serve the Low Fell corridor. It's the same between Washington Galleries and Houghton. As far as i'm aware both the 4 and X1 are both still 10 minute frequencies during the day, resulting in a ridculous 12 buses an hour between both places! When I've been in Houghton (before this covid-19 pandemic by the way) i've often looked to see how full both services are both ways and more often than not both only have a handful of people on, so how can such a high frequency be justified?

In my opinion I think the core routes should be limited to a 15 minute frequency so this will free up buses to serve other areas with new routes or route variations. Services could then be combined to provide a higher frequency along the major stops. For example you could have the existing 21 route every 15 minutes between Chester le Street and Newcastle (every 30 minutes to/from Durham) and have a new service 22 going from Chester to Newcastle via Barley Mow, Portmeads, Eighton Banks, Wrekenton and the QE meaning the 925 will no longer be needed. Then the 25 could serve Birtley, Lansbury Drive and Birtley Crematroium instead via Low Fell and Harlow Green etc. This would make the 25 a bit more direct too. Yes the Birtley to Low Fell corridor would lose around 2 buses an hour but it would still be very generously served by the many other routes that pass through.

While the core routes do offer a more direct service to major stops, the high frequencies thus more buses they use are robbing people in other areas of a better service. Its strange how when I was a kid in the 80's/90's we had the step entrance buses yet villages and communities were better served. Now we have all these easy access buses and yet some people have to walk more to get a bus or wait for a nexus secured service which goes round the houses and comes once an hou . I don't mind walking to get a bus myself but I think its totally unfair on the elderly or disabled to be expected to do this

(16 Jul 2020, 12:09 am)Washingtonian wrote I'm sure I've said this before but I'll say it again I think the real reason why some areas are poorly served is because there are other areas which are way over served. While I can understand Go North East's constant focus on its core routes to a degree, its clearly causing other areas to be neglected. In my opinion the frequency of some of the core routes is the main issue, an example being the 21. Why does it need to be every 7/8 mins? There are more than enough services between Newcastle and Chester le Street and more than enough buses that serve the Low Fell corridor. It's the same between Washington Galleries and Houghton. As far as i'm aware both the 4 and X1 are both still 10 minute frequencies during the day, resulting in a ridculous 12 buses an hour between both places! When I've been in Houghton (before this covid-19 pandemic by the way) i've often looked to see how full both services are both ways and more often than not both only have a handful of people on, so how can such a high frequency be justified?

In my opinion I think the core routes should be limited to a 15 minute frequency so this will free up buses to serve other areas with new routes or route variations. Services could then be combined to provide a higher frequency along the major stops. For example you could have the existing 21 route every 15 minutes between Chester le Street and Newcastle (every 30 minutes to/from Durham) and have a new service 22 going from Chester to Newcastle via Barley Mow, Portmeads, Eighton Banks, Wrekenton and the QE meaning the 925 will no longer be needed. Then the 25 could serve Birtley, Lansbury Drive and Birtley Crematroium instead via Low Fell and Harlow Green etc. This would make the 25 a bit more direct too. Yes the Birtley to Low Fell corridor would lose around 2 buses an hour but it would still be very generously served by the many other routes that pass through.

While the core routes do offer a more direct service to major stops, the high frequencies thus more buses they use are robbing people in other areas of a better service. Its strange how when I was a kid in the 80's/90's we had the step entrance buses yet villages and communities were better served. Now we have all these easy access buses and yet some people have to walk more to get a bus or wait for a nexus secured service which goes round the houses and comes once an hou . I don't mind walking to get a bus myself but I think its totally unfair on the elderly or disabled to be expected to do this

There's no way a reduction in frequency on the 21 would be a good idea in my opinion, the route is just too busy. A few years ago it was reduced to every 10 minutes and there were overcrowding issues, hence they upped it to every 7/8.

(14 Jul 2020, 11:21 am)LeeCalder wrote Again, repeating my comments from earlier, I certainly use it, frequently, and I was unashamedly very vocal about the change of route.

1 person using it will not keep it running, it needs more of the vocal folk using it. Going back to when the stanley changes being proposed, the number of people taking leaflets far outweighed the number using the buses. That's where the problem is, there's a lot of residents complaining about bus changes that dont use those buses.

(16 Jul 2020, 8:13 am)big mac wrote There's no way a reduction in frequency on the 21 would be a good idea in my opinion, the route is just too busy. A few years ago it was reduced to every 10 minutes and there were overcrowding issues, hence they upped it to every 7/8.

I don't use the 21 to be honest but I'm amazed to hear it has had overcrowding issues when there are so many services covering those areas. What parts of the route are busiest? There are a few times I've seen it Birtley and Chester le Street when they are nowhere near full (again pre-pandemic). If the 21 is as busy as you say then fair enough a higher frequency is justified. Mind you there are definitely other core routes which don't justify so many buses.

(16 Jul 2020, 12:09 am)Washingtonian wrote I'm sure I've said this before but I'll say it again I think the real reason why some areas are poorly served is because there are other areas which are way over served. While I can understand Go North East's constant focus on its core routes to a degree, its clearly causing other areas to be neglected. In my opinion the frequency of some of the core routes is the main issue, an example being the 21. Why does it need to be every 7/8 mins? There are more than enough services between Newcastle and Chester le Street and more than enough buses that serve the Low Fell corridor. It's the same between Washington Galleries and Houghton. As far as i'm aware both the 4 and X1 are both still 10 minute frequencies during the day, resulting in a ridculous 12 buses an hour between both places! When I've been in Houghton (before this covid-19 pandemic by the way) i've often looked to see how full both services are both ways and more often than not both only have a handful of people on, so how can such a high frequency be justified?

In my opinion I think the core routes should be limited to a 15 minute frequency so this will free up buses to serve other areas with new routes or route variations. Services could then be combined to provide a higher frequency along the major stops. For example you could have the existing 21 route every 15 minutes between Chester le Street and Newcastle (every 30 minutes to/from Durham) and have a new service 22 going from Chester to Newcastle via Barley Mow, Portmeads, Eighton Banks, Wrekenton and the QE meaning the 925 will no longer be needed. Then the 25 could serve Birtley, Lansbury Drive and Birtley Crematroium instead via Low Fell and Harlow Green etc. This would make the 25 a bit more direct too. Yes the Birtley to Low Fell corridor would lose around 2 buses an hour but it would still be very generously served by the many other routes that pass through.

While the core routes do offer a more direct service to major stops, the high frequencies thus more buses they use are robbing people in other areas of a better service. Its strange how when I was a kid in the 80's/90's we had the step entrance buses yet villages and communities were better served. Now we have all these easy access buses and yet some people have to walk more to get a bus or wait for a nexus secured service which goes round the houses and comes once an hou . I don't mind walking to get a bus myself but I think its totally unfair on the elderly or disabled to be expected to do this

Wonder if there's more which could be added. 

The poorer served areas then bottom out, seeing a poorer level of service than previous years and the corridors seen to be most popular - given the extra resource, but eventually saturated with a service which eventually tops out and its then not possible to grow that corridor any more (or at least not with the levels of growth seen previously).

That then leads to smaller fleet as operators have caused that much damage or at least created a negative perception in those areas ignored previously. 

It's just a big vicious circle spinning round and round, with the only guarantees being increased fares, lower overall numbers on bums and smaller fleet sizes.

A good example of this, might be the Durham Road corridor.
They focused on the 21 at the expense of the 21A and B (along with the communities they served) and as a result, the likes of Waldridge Estate, Lumley and Fencehouses lost the direct, regular services they had seen and used - just not at the levels needed/wanted vs those predicted along the main road.
Another consequence of this, could be the ever changing 1, 24 and 25 variations between Newcastle/Gateshead and Harlow Green, which has seen endless changes and stopping arrangements on the Newcastle side, links to hospitals lost and the extra resource being implemented in to the X21.

(16 Jul 2020, 9:34 am)Washingtonian wrote I don't use the 21 to be honest but I'm amazed to hear it has had overcrowding issues when there are so many services covering those areas. What parts of the route are busiest? There are a few times I've seen it Birtley and Chester le Street when they are nowhere near full (again pre-pandemic). If the 21 is as busy as you say then fair enough a higher frequency is justified. Mind you there are definitely other core routes which don't justify so many buses.

In my experience, Newcastle to the Angel tend to be busiest. I know many drivers used to complain that passengers would allow the 1 (A or whatever it was) go passed to get on the 21, only to get off at Gateshead which was the same route. It'll probably be the case for the 25 now too. The same passengers will let a nearly empty 25 go through to get on a busy 21 and complain about overcrowding.

The X21 may have slightly taken the pressure off for those travelling direct to Chester from Newcastle and Gateshead mind. It's a while since I've been on the 21.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(16 Jul 2020, 10:49 pm)6049 wrote In my experience, Newcastle to the Angel tend to be busiest. I know many drivers used to complain that passengers would allow the 1 (A or whatever it was) go passed to get on the 21, only to get off at Gateshead which was the same route. It'll probably be the case for the 25 now too. The same passengers will let a nearly empty 25 go through to get on a busy 21 and complain about overcrowding.

I wonder if there was a more consistent level of vehicle standard/type/appearance this might not happen.
For example if 1, 21 & 25 were all served by corporate liveried similar-aged (double deck) vehicles, all with NSAs etc, then with the only difference visible to the public being the number on the destination, they’d be less likely to let the 1 & 25 pass in favour of a 21, and instead just get on whatever comes first. 

On a separate note, why is the A and B so close to the 1 on the Coaster destinations. It kinda blurs into a single character until you get close to it.

it would probably help the 21 loadings if other buses that run on an evening left from he same stop in Gatehead bus station??? Anyone for low fell is going to wait at the 21 stand and probably dont even relise another bus to there destination leaves at xx.40 from the other end of the station

(18 Jul 2020, 7:43 am)Rob44 wrote it would probably help the 21 loadings if other buses that run on an evening left from he same stop in Gatehead bus station???  Anyone for low fell is going to wait at the 21 stand  and probably dont even relise another bus to there destination leaves at xx.40 from the other end of the station

I wonder who has the final say which stands are used for which services at Bus Stations - I would have thought Nexus with it been their bus station?

(18 Jul 2020, 9:13 am)citaro5284 wrote I wonder who has the final say which stands are used for which services at Bus Stations - I would have thought Nexus with it been their bus station?

What pressure have GNE put on Nexus to re-jig the stands?
What measures have been put in to place (in say the timetables or on the app), which let's passengers know about any alternatives from another stand in Gateshead? 
Appreciate it's not about handholding passengers, but there must be a balance between no information and information which passengers might find useful. Particularly when that alternative service has been introduced to assist passengers and presumably offer some alternative along Durham Road.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/poli...PKuAdpQKmE

Looks like there's gonna be some temporary diversions over the next few weeks.