(12 Sep 2020, 3:27 pm)Drifter60 wrote Disagree entirely. School buses SHOULD leave kids behind if there’s kids not following rules. This is about public health why should my child be put at risk because someone else’s can’t follow instructions.

Unfortunately, not all kids are well organised and not all kids, through no fault of their own, have parents who give a shit. 

You can probably guarantee that a large proportion of kids wear masks that have been in and out of their pockets all week, anyhow. 

Kids need an education, anyhow, so we as a society, should be pulling out all the stops to make that happen. Not all kids can learn at home. Both of mine have significant special needs - one has disengaged, not even caring about the gcse grades he was allocated, while the other, who has complex needs, has been wishing away this weekend because he is so glad to finally be back, after almost 6 months with no support (I got news that we've been awarded some respite, a week before he went back). 

This summer has been tough for a lot of kids for a lot of reasons. I'd rather they got an education and the support of adults outside their own families than a bunch of men spread the love around the region's WMCs, which is what seems to be happening.

(12 Sep 2020, 3:47 pm)Adtrainsam wrote It's a fine line to tread. Obviously, at the moment, GNE need to try and gain as much revenue so they minimise the loss and need all the custom they get. If you leave children behind, you'll get some angry parents who will complain about not getting to school and some of those are the ones who don't really think much about the virus. They might not bother with the bus in the future. However, if a bus gets over capacity/ children not wearing masks etc. you'll get people choosing another way to travel because they don't feel safe. So it's the need to balance between the two.

It's not.  Or it shouldn't be, at least.  They should do the right thing to enable social distancing and protect the health of everyone on board.  Passengers will vote with their feet if/when they see their lives being put at risk by companies trying to maximise revenue - plenty of examples of that on social media for all of the companies and it will be the tip of the iceberg.  The sad thing is it is the most deprived, who are already at higher risk from COVID, who will have no other choice and can't just switch to the car etc.

They should be being really clear - even if the government aren't.  So, for example is it acceptable on our scholars buses to have standees - if no, then make sure it doesnt happen, and if it does, treat it like any other disciplinary issue as the driver has allowed overcrowding.

As I've suggested before,m there are potentially other ways of increasing capacity beyond drafting in extra buses (early and late runs etc).  It is very clearly a case of profit before social responsibilty.  The marginal cost of a bus doing an extra run will be a damn sight less than the cost of responding to an outbreak, or medical care for a severe case that could have been avoided.

(12 Sep 2020, 3:47 pm)Adtrainsam wrote It's a fine line to tread. Obviously, at the moment, GNE need to try and gain as much revenue so they minimise the loss and need all the custom they get. If you leave children behind, you'll get some angry parents who will complain about not getting to school and some of those are the ones who don't really think much about the virus. They might not bother with the bus in the future. However, if a bus gets over capacity/ children not wearing masks etc. you'll get people choosing another way to travel because they don't feel safe. So it's the need to balance between the two.

Don’t think this has anything to do with revenue.  They won’t leave kids behind purely as a safeguarding issue.

(12 Sep 2020, 11:19 pm)Bazza wrote Don’t think this has anything to do with revenue.  They won’t leave kids behind purely as a safeguarding issue.

Precisely. Any suggestion that operators are piling on extra people to bring in extra revenue is ridiculous: there is currently a government support package which covers the “lost revenue” due to the smaller volume of passengers travelling.

You’re right to suggest it’s purely a safeguarding issue, as it always is (even pre-COVID where operators would allow free travel if a child doesn’t have enough money to travel and appears vulnerable).

That said I do agree with the points about social distancing and wish local authorities could do more to procure extra vehicles and schools could do more to change the hours they run.


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Meanwhile - in London: 
https://twitter.com/Hardeep216/status/13...85/photo/1

(14 Sep 2020, 9:29 am)Adrian wrote Meanwhile - in London: 
https://twitter.com/Hardeep216/status/13...85/photo/1

This is completely down to the bus driver not following procedure. Quite clearly it hasn't been rammed with school kids, so the only way that's been allowed to happen is if the driver hasn't adhered to the updated vehicle capacity. 

Unlike enforcing masks, enforcing adherence to updated vehicle capacity is very simple - count how many people are on, update the display and sail past bus stops, nothing hard about that. I'd be expecting a disciplinary. 

As a side note, if literally any of the people standing up complain about that then they've got no argument - they could see how busy it was when they got on.

(14 Sep 2020, 9:39 am)mb134 wrote This is completely down to the bus driver not following procedure. Quite clearly it hasn't been rammed with school kids, so the only way that's been allowed to happen is if the driver hasn't adhered to the updated vehicle capacity. 

Unlike enforcing masks, enforcing adherence to updated vehicle capacity is very simple - count how many people are on, update the display and sail past bus stops, nothing hard about that. I'd be expecting a disciplinary. 

As a side note, if literally any of the people standing up complain about that then they've got no argument - they could see how busy it was when they got on.

I don't think there's any suggestion that it is a scholars bus or down to school kids, but you're right that it is down to the driver not adhering to the Covid vehicle capacity. 

"Standing on buses
You must remain seated on buses at all times. Standing is not currently allowed anywhere on a bus.
This is so that people can use all the space on both decks while maintaining social distance."
https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/safer-travel...his-page-7

I personally think that its been evident right through this pandemic, is that too many people don't think beyond themselves. Whilst ultimately the driver is likely to be at fault for exceeding capacity, the people who have continued to board like lemmings are just as bad. This isn't exclusive to transport though - I've seen plenty of pubs packed out over the weekend. People trying to have a quick blow out before the new rules came in today. We literally need to treat some grown adults like school kids.

i have to say I was out in newcastle on both Friday and Saturday night and none of the pubs were overcrowded. Maybe i just visited the "good" ones but they certainly weren't ignoring social distancing like this bus driver and passengers were.

Just wondering what the latest passenger numbers are. Last I heard it was just over 50% of pre covid levels
I understand the reasons why passenger numbers are still way down but today I had to drop my car off at the garage and had to get the coast and country 78 from Annfield Plain to Consett at 8.30 am and I would have expected more than just the 3 passengers on board. It's a sad sight to see buses running so empty. The X46 i passed at derwentside college was marginally better with about 20 people on board.
I know theres still govt support for the bus industry and Go North East have gave attracting passengers a good go through new ticket offers, advertising and new buses, but at what point do current service levels become unsustainable?
Worrying times.

(26 Oct 2020, 12:00 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Just wondering what the latest passenger numbers are. Last I heard it was just over 50% of pre covid levels
I understand the reasons why passenger numbers are still way down but today I had to drop my car off at the garage and had to get the coast and country 78 from Annfield Plain to Consett at 8.30 am and I would have expected more than just the 3 passengers on board. It's a sad sight to see buses running so empty. The X46 i passed at derwentside college was marginally better with about 20 people on board.
I know theres still govt support for the bus industry and Go North East have gave attracting passengers a good go through new ticket offers, advertising and new buses, but at what point do current service levels become unsustainable?
Worrying times.

I think that we are living in the legacy of a number of factors. Some political, some fed by the media, those changes to working habits and some because of the operational decisions made by operators.
There's no way operators could have predicted this sort of pandemic and I applaud the way they have reacted and responded in the way of introducing additional services where required. 
However, I do think the way single ticket pricing has increased, hub & spoke models have seen changes to routes and the hours which depots are seemingly restricted to operationally, has a part to play.

Like you, my car is in the garage today. I've used courtesy cars in the recent past as public transport just wasn't viable and has proven extremely expensive or not feasible due to journey times. Today I was fortunate that MrsC was able to bring me home using her car.

It is all fine and well having fancy buses (which have the same facilities as the majority of cars). But if the journey time, pricing and operational hours don't suit people, they ain't going to use them for work, pleasure or after dropping the car off at the garage. 

As for the covid19 stuff, I do think operators need to look at how they can grow numbers quickly and aggressively in the current situation. 
Having lesser spotted bus hygienists and fog spray is just a part of changing people's mindsets. Regardless of how good it may be.

(26 Oct 2020, 12:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think that we are living in the legacy of a number of factors. Some political, some fed by the media, those changes to working habits and some because of the operational decisions made by operators.
There's no way operators could have predicted this sort of pandemic and I applaud the way they have reacted and responded in the way of introducing additional services where required. 
However, I do think the way single ticket pricing has increased, hub & spoke models have seen changes to routes and the hours which depots are seemingly restricted to operationally, has a part to play.

Like you, my car is in the garage today. I've used courtesy cars in the recent past as public transport just wasn't viable and has proven extremely expensive or not feasible due to journey times. Today I was fortunate that MrsC was able to bring me home using her car.

It is all fine and well having fancy buses (which have the same facilities as the majority of cars). But if the journey time, pricing and operational hours don't suit people, they ain't going to use them for work, pleasure or after dropping the car off at the garage. 

As for the covid19 stuff, I do think operators need to look at how they can grow numbers quickly and aggressively in the current situation. 
Having lesser spotted bus hygienists and fog spray is just a part of changing people's mindsets. Regardless of how good it may be.

And the problem with trying to lure people back is that under our current tier or higher (which we're bound to end up in, despite tyneside's numbers dropping) is that we're currently advised to only use public transport for essential journeys only, where there is no alternative.

I sat in the pub yesterday in Newcastle watching the world go by and notice SNE GNE and ANE all seemed to be busy leaving the city centre, ok not full but all had passengers into double figures. Then on the way home I was chatting to the driver of my transport and said he'd work the previous night and on six runs had a total of 2 passengers!. And i was the only one on the bus till I got home. Maybe a less frequent service on a night time might be the next step.

(27 Oct 2020, 1:43 pm)Rob44 wrote I sat in the pub yesterday in Newcastle watching the world go by and notice SNE GNE and ANE all seemed to be busy leaving the city centre, ok not full but all had passengers into double figures. Then on the way home I was chatting to the driver of my transport and said he'd work the previous night and on six runs had a total of 2 passengers!. And i was the only one on the bus till I got home. Maybe a less frequent service on a night time might be the next step. 

Short term, I do think that is the most effective option. 
Longer term, I think the impact on public transport will only be a negative one. 

We've seen services on an evening slowly reduce or get farmed out by nexus as operators don't see enough money in running these services. 
It's like an ongoing race to the bottom. Cutting or reducing to save money, allocating smaller or lower spec vehicles to increase their bsog support etc. 

If and when this whole covid19 thing ends, passengers or potential passengers will have found alternatives if their services have ended or reduced in frequency. 
I can't see the majority returning to public transport if they've invested in a car or found out that taxis are cheaper and often more convenient.

I do think operators need to be creative and need to think about how to increase the popularity of those quieter services on an evening.

(27 Oct 2020, 2:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote I do think operators need to be creative and need to think about how to increase the popularity of those quieter services on an evening.

Which is what I think you have seen Go North East starting to begin thinking about, with new 24-hour ticketing options and evening tickets (including group tickets).

(27 Oct 2020, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote Which is what I think you have seen Go North East starting to begin thinking about, with new 24-hour ticketing options and evening tickets (including group tickets).

The main thing that always stopped me using buses on an evening is the terrible layover times.
Every time I got the X21 up, there wouldn't be enough time to walk round to catch the 49 so I'd end up getting a lift instead of waiting.

Same when I would get the bus back down on a night, I'd get the X21 to Bishop, and have a 40 minute wait in the freezing cold for the 6 to Tindale.

(27 Oct 2020, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote Which is what I think you have seen Go North East starting to begin thinking about, with new 24-hour ticketing options and evening tickets (including group tickets).

As good as they may be, I'd argue that its only a small part of the evening and weekend offer. 
It's no good offering those tickets, if connections or services are limited, journeys need planning with military precision and punters can't use them effectively or in a manner which they don't feel as though they're getting vfm.

I've almost bought an evening ticket in the past.
As the last through X1 left before the event I was attending, finished, I didn't bother buying the ticket or using public transport at all.
Appreciate that is just me. But if the pattern or trend is repeated elsewhere with other services, then you can see why services would start to become less popular and run back to the depot earlier.

For evening journeys, Arriva do have some good offerings back to Blyth, Ashington and North Tyneside from Newcastle but they could do with re-timing the last X11/X21/308 more towards 11:30pm rather than 11:10-11:15pm.

Fair enough they dipped their toe into post 11:30pm services and backed out but it would make sense to have last journeys departing between 11:20pm and 11:30pm.

(27 Oct 2020, 2:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote If and when this whole covid19 thing ends, passengers or potential passengers will have found alternatives if their services have ended or reduced in frequency. 
I can't see the majority returning to public transport if they've invested in a car or found out that taxis are cheaper and often more convenient.

I do think operators need to be creative and need to think about how to increase the popularity of those quieter services on an evening.

I think travel patterns will dramatically change, now that employers are seeing the benefit of homeworking - something that was once seen as a skive opportunity.

But that isn't the biggest barrier; its people's perceptions of travelling on public transport and the cleanliness. Operators are doing a lot, some a lot more than others, to ensure high cleaning standards, but the message just isn't reaching the people that it needs to. Or convincing those it is.

Channel 4's Dispatches were out swab testing several public places - Buses actually came out really positively from it: https://metro.co.uk/video/dispatches-swa...e-2277984/

You're also right that creativity is required. The 24 hour ticket that GNE has introduced is great and offers a bit more flexibility. The evening ticket is also a positive, but only because you now pay a representative fare for the level of service received after 7pm. As you would in any other walk of life. It doesn't actually encourage me to use a bus on an evening though, because I still know that I'm going to spend most of my time waiting around in the cold! 

Perhaps a different kind of creativity is needed? Operators of course need people back on their buses, but businesses are going to need people back in their workplaces and councils/retail alike needing people back on their high streets, maybe we need to consider something like local transport taskforces? Get all the key stakeholders together and work on a mutual way forward.

(27 Oct 2020, 9:36 pm)Adrian wrote I think travel patterns will dramatically change, now that employers are seeing the benefit of homeworking - something that was once seen as a skive opportunity.

But that isn't the biggest barrier; its people's perceptions of travelling on public transport and the cleanliness. Operators are doing a lot, some a lot more than others, to ensure high cleaning standards, but the message just isn't reaching the people that it needs to. Or convincing those it is.

Channel 4's Dispatches were out swab testing several public places - Buses actually came out really positively from it: https://metro.co.uk/video/dispatches-swa...e-2277984/

You're also right that creativity is required. The 24 hour ticket that GNE has introduced is great and offers a bit more flexibility. The evening ticket is also a positive, but only because you now pay a representative fare for the level of service received after 7pm. As you would in any other walk of life. It doesn't actually encourage me to use a bus on an evening though, because I still know that I'm going to spend most of my time waiting around in the cold! 

Perhaps a different kind of creativity is needed? Operators of course need people back on their buses, but businesses are going to need people back in their workplaces and councils/retail alike needing people back on their high streets, maybe we need to consider something like local transport taskforces? Get all the key stakeholders together and work on a mutual way forward.

This is what is needed imo. 
Seeing more of the same old service offer - with or without the new ticket offers won't be the magic pill that fixes everything. 
The evening and 24 hour tickets are only part of the solution.