(07 Mar 2021, 12:06 pm)Dan wrote Martijn has confirmed in his live colleague update on Facebook this afternoon that it is a one-bus one-driver shift, commencing next month weekends only and eventually being daily over the summer holidays.

That's great stuff to be fair!


Will it be coach operated or 6377? (or a mix depending on demand)

(07 Mar 2021, 1:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote By the looks of it, this X11 is nothing more than a day out for the driver.
A shame, as I do believe it could have not only complemented the X9/10, but also encouraged ANE to do something about the X93.

I genuinely hoped there would be a joint depot operation, with early morning, mid-day and evening runs extending the full way and the rest operating as the X9/10 does now.
Not only would it have been creative and different for day-trippers and holidaymakers, it may have attracted passengers travelling between key points.
I feel it is very half-hearted and almost like SNE's attempt a few years ago between Stockton/Greatham and Newcastle.

The flipside of that is that, to realistically compete with the X93 you'd need to look at an hourly frequency, especially if we bear in mind that over the summer they pump up the Whitby-Scarborough leg to every 20 minutes. That would be a PVR of approximately 7, assuming a journey time of around 3 hours and layover at both ends and some time at M'Boro to soak up any delays. 

A PVR of 7 vehicles (and they'd need to be decent vehicles at that) on a brand new service which would compete with an established and good quality service for half it's route just isn't justifiable in the current climate. (I understand there are folks who think the X93 could be better, and I agree it could, but for the seasonal route it is I think ANE on the whole do a pretty good job with it and the B9s are of a reasonably good spec).

(07 Mar 2021, 4:13 pm)mb134 wrote The flipside of that is that, to realistically compete with the X93 you'd need to look at an hourly frequency, especially if we bear in mind that over the summer they pump up the Whitby-Scarborough leg to every 20 minutes. That would be a PVR of approximately 7, assuming a journey time of around 3 hours and layover at both ends and some time at M'Boro to soak up any delays. 

A PVR of 7 vehicles (and they'd need to be decent vehicles at that) on a brand new service which would compete with an established and good quality service for half it's route just isn't justifiable in the current climate. (I understand there are folks who think the X93 could be better, and I agree it could, but for the seasonal route it is I think ANE on the whole do a pretty good job with it and the B9s are of a reasonably good spec).

I don't think it needs to compete at all with the X93. I think there would probably be enough demand to operate the X93 as it is and have the X11 run it's 2/3 full return trips.
PVR to cover 60 min frequency between Newcastle and Boro, with 3 or 4 p/d extending between Boro and Scarborough. Split between two depots, surely that's not too much of a strain on resources? 

To get back to the main point of the thread, if operators are trying to stop the decline in passenger numbers, then they need to be more creative than they are currently - such as creating a network which works for passengers in 2021, not 1987.
I'm not saying this X11 would be the solution, but it would have definitely been a start.

Mod note: I've moved a couple of posts from the 'decline in passenger numbers' thread into here, to avoid having the same conversation in two places.

(07 Mar 2021, 5:00 pm)Adrian wrote Mod note: I've moved a couple of posts from the 'decline in passenger numbers' thread into here, to avoid having the same conversation in two places.

You have no authority !!!

(07 Mar 2021, 6:20 pm)MurdnunoC wrote You have no authority !!!

Yes he does,hes a Community Leader,which is part of the moderation side of things

(07 Mar 2021, 6:20 pm)MurdnunoC wrote You have no authority !!!

Alright Councillor Tolver - calm down. 

(07 Mar 2021, 7:50 pm)V514DFT wrote Yes he does,hes a Community Leader,which is part of the moderation side of things

I think you may have missed the Handforth Parish Council reference.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

(07 Mar 2021, 9:14 pm)big mac wrote I think you may have missed the Handforth Parish Council reference.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

Im 27, it was probs before my time

(07 Mar 2021, 9:31 pm)V514DFT wrote Im 27, it was probs before my time

It only happened a few weeks ago

(07 Mar 2021, 10:15 pm)Michael wrote It only happened a few weeks ago

I dont really pay much attention,i probably missed it

(06 Mar 2021, 1:38 pm)Michael wrote Just spotted this on VOSA...


Start point: Newcastle, John Dobson Street

Finish point: Scarborough, Rail Station

Via Gateshead, Washington, Middlesbrough, Whitby

---------

Starts 17th April 2021

Its appeared on VOSA today, the CSV confirms - One return journey each day, up to seven days a week.

Glad to see it running it everyday.

(08 Mar 2021, 5:49 pm)Michael wrote Its appeared on VOSA today, the CSV confirms - One return journey each day, up to seven days a week.

Glad to see it running it everyday.

I wonder what the timings are going to be like. I'd imagine it's at least a 3 hour journey each way, and since it's going to be essentially a day trip service you're going to want at least 4-5 hours there. If it leaves at say 9am, that gets you there for lunch time, if it leaves at 4-5pm, that gets you back to Newcastle at 7-8pm.

(09 Mar 2021, 8:00 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder what the timings are going to be like. I'd imagine it's at least a 3 hour journey each way, and since it's going to be essentially a day trip service you're going to want at least 4-5 hours there. If it leaves at say 9am, that gets you there for lunch time, if it leaves at 4-5pm, that gets you back to Newcastle at 7-8pm.

They'll be somewhat similar to this I'd think, though obviously a slightly increased journey time with serving Washington.

http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/downloa...l-Scar.pdf

One return trip per day just seems a little underwhelming. A shame GNE cant connect something between their two areas. I'm not sure how many people would use it, but an infrequent variation of say the EYMS service 128 from Pickering and Helmsley up to Teesside could be an another idea to give a new connection between places currently hard to get to by public transport.

Unless Scarborough & District and GNE worked something together, it's unrealistic to expect more than what we're getting on the X11, but of course us bus enthusiasts always want more!

(09 Mar 2021, 8:55 am)tvd wrote One return trip per day just seems a little underwhelming.  A shame GNE cant connect something between their two areas.  I'm not sure how many people would use it, but an infrequent variation of say the EYMS service 128 from Pickering and Helmsley up to Teesside could be an another idea to give a new connection between places currently hard to get to by public transport.

Unless Scarborough & District and GNE worked something together, it's unrealistic to expect more than what we're getting on the X11, but of course us bus enthusiasts always want more!

I think that 128 variation is an excellent idea. Apart from walkers and those looking to get to The Lion, Rosedale or Hutton le Hole, it would certainly open up a connection over the moors. 
Marketed and designed correctly, I reckon it could work well.

Personally if they we're going to do a secondary bus from Scarborough way to Teesside I'd look at doing a X12 instead with something like the following route - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.57610...92!1m0!3e0

One leaving Bridlington at 8.45am and a second at 11.45am and try to appeal to the numerous holiday parks there with a diversion via Seamer and advertise it as a bus to train connection for those heading South. It also opens new connections for day trips for those at the holiday parks to Scarborough North Bay and Whitby and places inbetween with through tickets at Teesside for those at the parks needing a trip home North with the first one being ideal at around 10.45 to pick the Whitby passengers up at kicking out time and the second for those have late check out or only want a few hours at Scarborough.

Then have returns from Boro at 12pm for those going to the holiday parks and pick passengers up so it'll get there for roughly check in time and the second one at 3pm to hit Whitby at 4pm and Scarborough at 5pm (give or take) to take the people back to their Caravans after their day out.

(09 Mar 2021, 1:27 pm)Storx wrote Personally if they we're going to do a secondary bus from Scarborough way to Teesside I'd look at doing a X12 instead with something like the following route - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.57610...92!1m0!3e0

One leaving Bridlington at 8.45am and a second at 11.45am and try to appeal to the numerous holiday parks there with a diversion via Seamer and advertise it as a bus to train connection for those heading South. It also opens new connections for day trips for those at the holiday parks to Scarborough North Bay and Whitby and places inbetween with through tickets at Teesside for those at the parks needing a trip home North with the first one being ideal at around 10.45 to pick the Whitby passengers up at kicking out time and the second for those have late check out or only want a few hours at Scarborough.

Then have returns from Boro at 12pm for those going to the holiday parks and pick passengers up so it'll get there for roughly check in time and the second one at 3pm to hit Whitby at 4pm and Scarborough at 5pm (give or take) to take the people back to their Caravans after their day out.

I wonder if the Scarborough - Bridlington section is covered adequately already?
However, what you did suggest is exactly what I thought this X11 would be.
Genuinely disappointed it's not.

Thinking more about it, it seems like a complete waste of money to me, realistically how much are they going to make.
If they're using a coach and we assume they fill it to around 75% capacity (which is basically as much as they could at the minute, if there are quite a few groups), that's say 35 people.

If a return ticket is £10 (which is all they can really charge since an explorer is £10.90 and I assume they'll want to accept it), that's £350 in revenue.

To run it, they're going to need to pay a driver to drive down, sit around for a few hours and drive back, so if we say a driver is £10 an hour, that's going to be around £110.
For the fuel, say they're getting 10mpg, and fuel is around £1.20 a litre at the minute, so it's going to be another £110 in fuel.
Then there's the cost of the vehicle, now I'd imagine GNE have a fair few vehicles laying around at the minute still, so that cost is probably fairly minimal.
Then there's all the admin costs, stand fees etc.

So they're potentially, in the best case going to be making just over £100 a day, unless I've got my maths completely wrong?

(09 Mar 2021, 5:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Thinking more about it, it seems like a complete waste of money to me, realistically how much are they going to make.
If they're using a coach and we assume they fill it to around 75% capacity (which is basically as much as they could at the minute, if there are quite a few groups), that's say 35 people.

If a return ticket is £10 (which is all they can really charge since an explorer is £10.90 and I assume they'll want to accept it), that's £350 in revenue.

To run it, they're going to need to pay a driver to drive down, sit around for a few hours and drive back, so if we say a driver is £10 an hour, that's going to be around £110.
For the fuel, say they're getting 10mpg, and fuel is around £1.20 a litre at the minute, so it's going to be another £110 in fuel.
Then there's the cost of the vehicle, now I'd imagine GNE have a fair few vehicles laying around at the minute still, so that cost is probably fairly minimal.
Then there's all the admin costs, stand fees etc.

So they're potentially, in the best case going to be making just over £100 a day, unless I've got my maths completely wrong?

I think the likelihood of them using a coach is slim to none, as I've said before there's probably a very solid reason why 6377 did that run last week. Don't forget they likely have a far lower cost than that for fuel also.

Hopefully by June, too, the restrictions in terms of social distancing have been eradicated which will mean you could have a full load on. So that's immediately, say on a decker, 70 bums on seats.

(09 Mar 2021, 4:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote I wonder if the Scarborough - Bridlington section is covered adequately already?
However, what you did suggest is exactly what I thought this X11 would be.
Genuinely disappointed it's not.

I believe it's an absolute dog fight route between Scarborough and Filey with Suncruisers and their 555. So my idea was anything to differentiate them a bit ie a route direct to the beach without changing plus a shortened journey to Seamer to save time on the train aswell.

Not sure how GoAhead are getting along with them but when they done that Channel 5 show awhile back EYMS and Suncruisers came across like 2 school children and I know there's been trouble before more with Suncruisers.

(09 Mar 2021, 5:47 pm)mb134 wrote I think the likelihood of them using a coach is slim to none, as I've said before there's probably a very solid reason why 6377 did that run last week. Don't forget they likely have a far lower cost than that for fuel also.

Hopefully by June, too, the restrictions in terms of social distancing have been eradicated which will mean you could have a full load on. So that's immediately, say on a decker, 70 bums on seats.

Let's be honest here - no bus will be packed to the gunnels this summer. The general public just don't have that confidence.

Additionally, didn't ANE withdraw the X60/X61 because of the ENCTS scheme? I.e a bus full of pensioners simply isn't sustainable based on the reimbursement.

The average family will not sit on a bus for 3+ hours, it just won't happen, not in the current climate and definitely not in the immediate post social distancing era. From experience, a family will always go in the car, for convenience - especially when both Whitby and Scarborough have a very good park and ride service too.

I agree demand will be there for coastal services, but Newcastle to Whitby or Scarborough is just too far, except for a few hardcore enthusiasts and pensioners who don't drive.

Waste of public funding.

(09 Mar 2021, 6:33 pm)RobinHood wrote Let's be honest here - no bus will be packed to the gunnels this summer. The general public just don't have that confidence.

Additionally, didn't ANE withdraw the X60/X61 because of the ENCTS scheme? I.e a bus full of pensioners simply isn't sustainable based on the reimbursement.

The average family will not sit on a bus for 3+ hours, it just won't happen, not in the current climate and definitely not in the immediate post social distancing era. From experience, a family will always go in the car, for convenience - especially when both Whitby and Scarborough have a very good park and ride service too.

I agree demand will be there for coastal services, but Newcastle to Whitby or Scarborough is just too far, except for a few hardcore enthusiasts and pensioners who don't drive.

Waste of public funding.

I also don't get the appeal of visiting Whitby or Scarborough over any of the places we have up here.
Sure, they're nice, but are they 'sitting on a bus for 6 hours' nice?

(09 Mar 2021, 6:33 pm)RobinHood wrote Let's be honest here - no bus will be packed to the gunnels this summer. The general public just don't have that confidence.

Additionally, didn't ANE withdraw the X60/X61 because of the ENCTS scheme? I.e a bus full of pensioners simply isn't sustainable based on the reimbursement.

The average family will not sit on a bus for 3+ hours, it just won't happen, not in the current climate and definitely not in the immediate post social distancing era. From experience, a family will always go in the car, for convenience - especially when both Whitby and Scarborough have a very good park and ride service too.

I agree demand will be there for coastal services, but Newcastle to Whitby or Scarborough is just too far, except for a few hardcore enthusiasts and pensioners who don't drive.

Waste of public funding.

I'm sceptical of the 21st June date, but I'd imagine that's the idea behind this. I don't see them registering a new service like this for the hope of what, 25 people? Certainly in my experience those who have had the vaccine don't really care anymore and want to get back to normal, the amount of pensioners that ring up where I work asking if we're open for dining in is unreal. If the vaccine is fully rolled out by then, or at least if they're making progress on the 30-40 year olds then I imagine the messaging will overwhelmingly be to get everyone back to normal. 

Yeah that was always my understanding. You'd hope they know this and time it to leave Newcastle before the pensioner passes kick in to try and gain revenue then. 

Any family with a car, I'd agree. Though I imagine again this will be targeting those without access to a car who want a day out down the coast, as well as those with concessionary passes. 

Regardless of how it turns out, I think it deserves praise for at the very least trying to do something in these circumstances.

(09 Mar 2021, 6:46 pm)mb134 wrote I'm sceptical of the 21st June date, but I'd imagine that's the idea behind this. I don't see them registering a new service like this for the hope of what, 25 people? Certainly in my experience those who have had the vaccine don't really care anymore and want to get back to normal, the amount of pensioners that ring up where I work asking if we're open for dining in is unreal. If the vaccine is fully rolled out by then, or at least if they're making progress on the 30-40 year olds then I imagine the messaging will overwhelmingly be to get everyone back to normal. 

Yeah that was always my understanding. You'd hope they know this and time it to leave Newcastle before the pensioner passes kick in to try and gain revenue then. 

Any family with a car, I'd agree. Though I imagine again this will be targeting those without access to a car who want a day out down the coast, as well as those with concessionary passes. 

Regardless of how it turns out, I think it deserves praise for at the very least trying to do something in these circumstances.

I'm a car driver and I'm planning on using the X11. Not just as an enthusiast but as an everyday passenger, as I personally hate the drive to Whitby and or Scarborough. My wife and I like Whitby and I'd probably drive to Heworth and leave the car there to use the X11.  My major concern though is if the service is successful and also, if, Explorers are accepted, what is to say additional passengers may make way down later  via X10/X93 to Whitby or Scarborough and then on the return from Whitby them passengers time it for the X11 turning up removing the need to change at Boro and the additional passengers board at Whitby prior to any passengers who came down on the X11 and then all of sudden the bus is full. What will happen to the outstanding passengers who cant get on. 

They cant really say as they do on twitter "we know service X11 has left passengers behind at Whitby but dont worry we will have another bus sent to you"   or could they if they use EY as an additional emergency contingency.  None of us are probably expecting this scenario to happen due to the current situation but maybe one day there wont be enough seats for the return journey.

I've done the Wright Bros 808 to Keswick during the summer which is similar 1 journey out 1 journey return. 3 hours there and 3 hours back. Get to the bus stop for return and there are tons of passengers but usually most of these are day trippers so the drivers have an idea of how many have come down on the outward journey and have an estimate of numbers for return.

(09 Mar 2021, 7:16 pm)ifm001 wrote I'm a car driver and I'm planning on using the X11. Not just as an enthusiast but as an everyday passenger, as I personally hate the drive to Whitby and or Scarborough. My wife and I like Whitby and I'd probably drive to Heworth and leave the car there to use the X11.  My major concern though is if the service is successful and also, if, Explorers are accepted, what is to say additional passengers may make way down later  via X10/X93 to Whitby or Scarborough and then on the return from Whitby them passengers time it for the X11 turning up removing the need to change at Boro and the additional passengers board at Whitby prior to any passengers who came down on the X11 and then all of sudden the bus is full. What will happen to the outstanding passengers who cant get on. 

They cant really say as they do on twitter "we know service X11 has left passengers behind at Whitby but dont worry we will have another bus sent to you"   or could they if they use EY as an additional emergency contingency.  None of us are probably expecting this scenario to happen due to the current situation but maybe one day there wont be enough seats for the return journey.

I've done the Wright Bros 808 to Keswick during the summer which is similar 1 journey out 1 journey return. 3 hours there and 3 hours back. Get to the bus stop for return and there are tons of passengers but usually most of these are day trippers so the drivers have an idea of how many have come down on the outward journey and have an estimate of numbers for return.

It's not passengers making their way down by other means, but passengers from Whitby/Scarborough possibly making their way up for an overnight stay in Newcastle.

There's always a small chance of a full bus on these sort of routes, and people left behind on the return. I know Coastliners 843 gets lots of summer day trippers travelling from Leeds to Scarborough for the day, and a driver friend of mine used to advise them to return on the penultimate bus if possible when it was a busy day. Of course, people would often ignore that and the last us was full and people were left behind on several occasions. They then had to get a train/taxi, basically make their own way home; there arent spare buses or drivers available.

If the same were to happen with the X11, it would only realistically be passengers boarding from Whitby who'd not get on, and they do have the Arriva services to get back as far as Middlesbrough if that was the case.

But there's only so much anyone can do. I've seen for myself, people have a day out as the seaside and had no clue when the last bus leaves (or has left!), which stand to use, or have the common sense on a really busy summers day to get in the bus queue early.

I'm sure if worst comes to worst, GNE can draft in a bus from EYMS if bus is full at Scarborough or hire a coach from an independent operator in the Whitby area to carry the passengers left behind if the bus is full and loaded at Whitby. Though with the case of pensioners, they can also use the Arriva service if have to and change onto the X9/X10 at Boro.

I think this will be amazing. It will be nice to see GNE operating in an area out further than Middlesbrough. Maybe if this is possible amazing for the public among others. Maybe GNE might make it a regular thing

(09 Mar 2021, 7:16 pm)ifm001 wrote My major concern though is if the service is successful and also, if, Explorers are accepted, what is to say additional passengers may make way down later  via X10/X93 to Whitby or Scarborough and then on the return from Whitby them passengers time it for the X11 turning up removing the need to change at Boro and the additional passengers board at Whitby prior to any passengers who came down on the X11 and then all of sudden the bus is full. What will happen to the outstanding passengers who cant get on. 

They cant really say as they do on twitter "we know service X11 has left passengers behind at Whitby but dont worry we will have another bus sent to you"   or could they if they use EY as an additional emergency contingency.  None of us are probably expecting this scenario to happen due to the current situation but maybe one day there wont be enough seats for the return journey.

Doubt this will be such a big issue tbh, can't see there being many people to fill more than one bus load heading to Newcastle and the majority of people on the X93 are likely to have Arriva tickets anyway instead of Explorers since GNE is pretty much in no man lands. If the bus is dead leaving Washington, then I can imagine it'll be dead at Whitby personally and the same people will return using it as it'll just be a confusing bus to anyone else who are looking for the X93 / Train depending on how they travelled there since they're chocka in the Summer with people changing at Middlesbrough.