How about a summer special service from Durham or Teesside to the Lake District ??   Keswick or Penrith, opens up access to Cumbria.
I Know it would be a fairly long route but Arriva already operate the x18,x93 and 658 services.
It might fit stagecoach better as they have an outstation in penrith as well as services already in the lakes.
Public transport to the Lake District is very poor from our region.

Middlesbrough,stockton,darlington,barney,appleby,penrith,Keswick                                 
Durham,spennymoor,bishop,barney,appleby,penrith,Keswick

I'm not sure what bus can be assigned for that route and whether they can cross the bridge at Barnard castle, may have to go via scotch corner!!
Do you think it's viable??

Easy suggestion, how about having one of the morpeth bound expresses serve stannington

Easy suggestion, how about having one of the morpeth bound expresses serve stannington

Because it's not worth the time, 3-4 mins northbound and 6-7 mins southbound to pick up a single ENCTS holder.

I'm sure that there used to be an X14 that ran into Stannington shortly before the Max upgrade.

Stannington is an upmarket village so the likelihood of residents using the bus is minimal.

Because it's not worth the time, 3-4 mins northbound and 6-7 mins southbound to pick up a single ENCTS holder.

I'm sure that there used to be an X14 that ran into Stannington shortly before the Max upgrade.

Stannington is an upmarket village so the likelihood of residents using the bus is minimal.

Didnt the 44 used to serve Stannington?

Because it's not worth the time, 3-4 mins northbound and 6-7 mins southbound to pick up a single ENCTS holder.

I'm sure that there used to be an X14 that ran into Stannington shortly before the Max upgrade.

Stannington is an upmarket village so the likelihood of residents using the bus is minimal.

Surely a 5 minute dive in to Stannington wouldn't be too much hassle?
Fair enough, you'll only get 2 or 3 on each trip at the beginning, but that's the sort of thing companies need to do to get the passengers to switch to the bus.

Surely a 5 minute dive in to Stannington wouldn't be too much hassle?
Fair enough, you'll only get 2 or 3 on each trip at the beginning, but that's the sort of thing companies need to do to get the passengers to switch to the bus.

If Arriva really wanted a Stannington link, they could do this:

- X21 - Daytime journeys via Hartlands, evenings via Nedderton. Every 30 mins Mon-Sat

- X22 - Same but every 30 mins Mon-Sat

- X23 - Stannington, Nedderton, Bedlington Glebe Bank, Bedlington Front Street West then same as X21/X22. Every 30 mins Mon-Sat.

Journey time from Stannington to Newcastle would be approximately 45 mins.

Surely a 5 minute dive in to Stannington wouldn't be too much hassle?
Fair enough, you'll only get 2 or 3 on each trip at the beginning, but that's the sort of thing companies need to do to get the passengers to switch to the bus. 

Agree 100%.
It's that thinking differently, thinking long term and trying to encourage people (from whatever area, affluent or not), to make the switch.

As for services operating to/via Stannington, I'm sure there were extensions of Dinnington services that ran to Stannington.
Think the Morpeth expresses stopped due to the poor road infrastructure and high accident rate at the junctions prior to the graded improvements.

If Arriva really wanted a Stannington link, they could do this:

- X21 - Daytime journeys via Hartlands, evenings via Nedderton. Every 30 mins Mon-Sat

- X22 - Same but every 30 mins Mon-Sat

- X23 - Stannington, Nedderton, Bedlington Glebe Bank, Bedlington Front Street West then same as X21/X22. Every 30 mins Mon-Sat.

Journey time from Stannington to Newcastle would be approximately 45 mins.

Surely if you we're going to do something like the X23 you'd do the reverse route Newcastle - Stannington - Nedderton - Bedlington. The route your doing there is way too slow for the places your trying to give a service to and going via Stannington Station from Nedderton is barely any difference timewise.

Agree 100%.
It's that thinking differently, thinking long term and trying to encourage people (from whatever area, affluent or not), to make the switch.

As for services operating to/via Stannington, I'm sure there were extensions of Dinnington services that ran to Stannington.
Think the Morpeth expresses stopped due to the poor road infrastructure and high accident rate at the junctions prior to the graded improvements.

Usually I'd agree but there's no demand for a service from Stannington, going Southbound it's just an unnessessary diversion since you have to go into the village then double back on yourself when heading Southbound.

One route you could potentially try is messing with the X16 and use the country roads to Stannington something like this https://goo.gl/maps/7CTpDUXAo46ddQ1A8 also serving Whitehouse Farm, hoping you can get persuade a few punters to use it to the farm since it is a quite popular destination with no bus service at all but I'm not sure you'd get enough people to make it worth (maybe a 2 hourly service?)

Agree 100%.
It's that thinking differently, thinking long term and trying to encourage people (from whatever area, affluent or not), to make the switch.

As for services operating to/via Stannington, I'm sure there were extensions of Dinnington services that ran to Stannington.
Think the Morpeth expresses stopped due to the poor road infrastructure and high accident rate at the junctions prior to the graded improvements.

X14 ran into Stannington (then Hepscott Park and Stobhill) at peak times as late as 2014 if I remember correctly, so long after the new junctions were put in.

As others have said, heading towards Newcastle the bus would need to double back on itself adding almost 10 minutes to its journey which would be unlikely without a major overhaul of the timetables, whilst heading towards Morpeth it's already covered by Rural Link services.

44 was always dead heading in both directions, not sure if the southbound 44 served the village itself or just stopped on the A1 sliproad.

X14 ran into Stannington (then Hepscott Park and Stobhill) at peak times as late as 2014 if I remember correctly, so long after the new junctions were put in.

As others have said, heading towards Newcastle the bus would need to double back on itself adding almost 10 minutes to its journey which would be unlikely without a major overhaul of the timetables, whilst heading towards Morpeth it's already covered by Rural Link services.

44 was always dead heading in both directions, not sure if the southbound 44 served the village itself or just stopped on the A1 sliproad.

Cheers, I was getting mixed up with the new junction for Stannington and the new one at Morpeth, which was a lot more recent.

As for the other comments. That's a barrier which needs to be overcome. I've said it elsewhere with other operators, that they need to think creatively. Storx mentioned one idea, which would also involve opening up new links. I'm not saying that would be the answer or solution, but it's more creative than saying it would need the timetable re-working or it would end up doubling back on itself.

I think operators really need to get out of that mindset and look for solutions, so that public transport is more attractive - regardless of class or social standing. 

On a slightly different note, it would be interesting to see what ANE said and what pressure they put on Highways England when the plans for the Stannington improvements were first made public. Specifically the impact the changes could have on their passengers in the Stannington area and how cut off they're likely to be.

Cheers, I was getting mixed up with the new junction for Stannington and the new one at Morpeth, which was a lot more recent.

As for the other comments. That's a barrier which needs to be overcome. I've said it elsewhere with other operators, that they need to think creatively. Storx mentioned one idea, which would also involve opening up new links. I'm not saying that would be the answer or solution, but it's more creative than saying it would need the timetable re-working or it would end up doubling back on itself.

I think operators really need to get out of that mindset and look for solutions, so that public transport is more attractive - regardless of class or social standing. 

On a slightly different note, it would be interesting to see what ANE said and what pressure they put on Highways England when the plans for the Stannington improvements were first made public. Specifically the impact the changes could have on their passengers in the Stannington area and how cut off they're likely to be.

Correct me if I'm wrong but arent services like the S1, T1A etc contracted by NCC because theres no commerical operation in those areas.

Correct me if I'm wrong but arent services like the S1, T1A etc contracted by NCC because theres no commerical operation in those areas.

They are indeed all NCC supported as was the 44 between Dinnington and Morpeth prior to that, was dropped North of Dinnington owing to changes with the contract which PCL Travel (now Rural Link) won so the decision was taken for Arriva to abandon this section as the numbers were not particularly high to justify the continuation of this link commercially.

About the only way round the added journey times would be to run via Stannington Village Northbound but Southbound just serve the stop on the A1 slip road to avoid the doubling back through the village.

I do question if there was an abandoned plan for the X16 to serve Stannington in some form as the interior branding on at least one of 1408/1411 has a map showing it serving Stannington but then other maps on board don't show Stannington.

I do question if there was an abandoned plan for the X16 to serve Stannington in some form as the interior branding on at least one of 1408/1411 has a map showing it serving Stannington but then other maps on board don't show Stannington.

The marketing team at the time had a habit of including places on publicity where the bus just passes through.

Thought I try my hand at a few Northumbria/ North Tyneside Suggestions. 
Feel free to change or add any ideas you want.

Attached Files

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Northumbriacsv.xlsx (Size 13.58 KB Downloads 32)

They are indeed all NCC supported as was the 44 between Dinnington and Morpeth prior to that, was dropped North of Dinnington owing to changes with the contract which PCL Travel (now Rural Link) won so the decision was taken for Arriva to abandon this section as the numbers were not particularly high to justify the continuation of this link commercially. 

About the only way round the added journey times would be to run via Stannington Village Northbound but Southbound just serve the stop on the A1 slip road to avoid the doubling back through the village.

I do question if there was an abandoned plan for the X16 to serve Stannington in some form as the interior branding on at least one of 1408/1411 has a map showing it serving Stannington but then other maps on board don't show Stannington.

Surely even the most economicaly illiterate commercial teams realise that extending a service from Dinnington vs diverting an express would be the more expensive of the two options?

Surely even the most economicaly illiterate commercial teams realise that extending a service from Dinnington vs diverting an express would be the more expensive of the two options?

What was the route of the 44 on this bit. I'm presuming not via Horton Grange.
Also, have any buses gone from Dinnington via Berwick Hill towards Ponteland

What was the route of the 44 on this bit. I'm presuming not via Horton Grange.
Also, have any buses gone from Dinnington via Berwick Hill towards Ponteland

https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/Northu...605_44.pdf - There's the timetable.

Morpeth - Hepscott - Gosforth (All Stops) - Newcastle was pretty much replaced by the 57A being changed to the 43, the rest was replaced by the S1 (PCL Travel) bar Stannington to Newcastle.

Phase 1

35Trips.pdf (Size 415.82 KB Downloads 17)

X19Trips.pdf (Size 411.46 KB Downloads 9)

X21X22Trips.pdf (Size 436.29 KB Downloads 13)

New vehicles
- 5x Scania N250UD / ADL E400MMC 10.9M ZF - ArrivaX - X18/X20 (X18 part of next phase, includes 1x spare)
Route branding would be
*Alnwick
*Amble
*Widdrington
*Newcastle

- 13x Dennis Trident 2 / ADL E400MMC 10.9M ZF - ArrivaX - X19/X21/X22 (incl 1x spare)
Route branding would be
*Newbiggin
*Ashington
*Newcastle

- 5x ADL E200MMC Cummins B4.5 11.5m Voith - Arriva Premium - 35
Route branding would be
*Newbiggin
*North Seaton
*Ashington
*Morpeth


Phase 1 cascades
- 7541-52 to Blyth for 308 & other routes (until Phase 3)


Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.

Service X20 (PVR 4x)
- New & improved vehicles introduced including bike racks.

Services X21/X22 (PVR 12x including X19)
- Up to every 15 minutes Mondays to Saturdays.
- Up to every 30 minutes Evenings and Sundays.
- X21 hourly between Ashington and Newbiggin but with extra journeys around school times.
- X21 would no longer serve Moor Estate in Newbiggin, all journeys terminate at Cresswell Arms.
- Small number of Sunday evening X22 journeys withdrawn.
- 10.15pm X21 journey from Newcastle would terminate in Ashington. New later journeys from Newcastle to Newbiggin provided by service X19.

Service 35 (PVR 5x)
- Would no longer serve Woodhorn. Newbiggin Seacrest Road to Morpeth only.
- Up to every 20 minutes Mondays to Saturdays.
- Increased Evening and Sunday frequency between Ashington and Morpeth.


Board codes (* = letter i.e X21A)
X21* - Double deck vehicle
35* - Single deck vehicle, also covers Sunday X19 boards although standalone

Through journeys for above (change of bus required)

X19 15:08 ex Newcastle > Ashington 15:52, can change on to X21 ex Ashington 16:01 > Newbiggin 16:14

X21 22:15 ex Newcastle > Ashington 23:08, can change on to X19 ex Ashington 23:20 > Newbiggin 23:33

Phase 1




New vehicles
- 5x Scania N250UD / ADL E400MMC 10.9M ZF - ArrivaX - X18/X20 (X18 part of next phase, includes 1x spare)
Route branding would be
*Alnwick
*Amble
*Widdrington
*Newcastle

- 13x Dennis Trident 2 / ADL E400MMC 10.9M ZF - ArrivaX - X19/X21/X22 (incl 1x spare)
Route branding would be
*Newbiggin
*Ashington
*Newcastle

- 5x ADL E200MMC Cummins B4.5 11.5m Voith - Arriva Premium - 35
Route branding would be
*Newbiggin
*North Seaton
*Ashington
*Morpeth


Phase 1 cascades
- 7541-52 to Blyth for 308 & other routes (until Phase 3)


Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.

Service X20 (PVR 4x)
- New & improved vehicles introduced including bike racks.

Services X21/X22 (PVR 12x including X19)
- Up to every 15 minutes Mondays to Saturdays.
- Up to every 30 minutes Evenings and Sundays.
- X21 hourly between Ashington and Newbiggin but with extra journeys around school times.
- X21 would no longer serve Moor Estate in Newbiggin, all journeys terminate at Cresswell Arms.
- Small number of Sunday evening X22 journeys withdrawn.
- 10.15pm X21 journey from Newcastle would terminate in Ashington. New later journeys from Newcastle to Newbiggin provided by service X19.

Service 35 (PVR 5x)
- Would no longer serve Woodhorn. Newbiggin Seacrest Road to Morpeth only.
- Up to every 20 minutes Mondays to Saturdays.
- Increased Evening and Sunday frequency between Ashington and Morpeth.


Board codes (* = letter i.e X21A)
X21* - Double deck vehicle
35* - Single deck vehicle, also covers Sunday X19 boards although standalone

I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).

Currently it's

Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.

With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.

Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.

If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.

I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).

Currently it's

Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.

With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.

X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.

---

If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.

It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

If the X20s were running around with even 20 folk on in the peaks at the moment I'd see an argument for it, the reality is that they're running around with much less than that. Most of the custom is reportedly between Alnwick at Ashington at the moment, with the pre-Covid demand between Ashington and Newcastle simply not being there. A half hourly express between Ashington and Newcastle would haemorrhage money, not to mention it would kill the local links provided by the X21.

X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.

---

It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

The thing is though when the BTRL comes in the local services are going to be the key services imo even if it ends up them using the 1 to Bedlington Station to get the train to town.

Btw for your X19 I'd be tempted to reverse the Newbiggin bit and go straight to Newbiggin skipping Ashington possibly extending to Cresswall with the time savings. Once the trains come in, it's one place that won't change.

Oh and a little suggestion I know you always wanted to get arid of the X8 in it's current form, one idea could be to turn the X19/X20 into what was the X25/X26 south of Blyth ASDA it shouldn't add too much time 5 mins max really and kills 2 birds with one stone. The X20 is dead most the time tbh.

I've just checked the suggested times and cross referenced with the 1 & 2. Now to be fair, I didn't take the 1 & 2 into account with the X21.

All of the combined corridors although not 100% perfect, do give some reasonable headway during Mondays to Saturdays.

Evenings & Sundays, I can see the problem with the 1 & X21 between Ashington & Bedlington Station but...........the X21 is the stronger service out of the X21 & X22. Therefore, it's been timed to arrive in Newcastle between xx:30 & xx:00 (xx:37). And then leaving Newcastle between xx:00 & xx:30 (xx:15).

https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

Has it actually been confirmed that the X21/X22 changes are permanent. They're still marked down as temporary timetables atm. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them restored in the future once school extras are scrapped tbf as they were always quite busy. Right now though there just simply isn't anything to actually run the buses as bigger buses are being used on school extras especially at Blyth and Durham.

https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

One comment in regard to the Bus Service between Newbiggin & Newcastle suddenly means there's a huge demand for a faster Bus does it? Also the PVR reduction for Ashington's Sapphire services are temporary and will return in time.

https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 in reality. As Cobalt271 states, that would be expected to revert to normal once dupes are no longer required.

One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 

Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x

Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x

Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.

The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.

Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.