(27 Jun 2021, 5:21 am)Dan wrote Lots of negativity around Best Impressions here but what if - and it’s a big if - their design is only as good as the brief they have been given?

If you don’t like any branding that’s done nowadays, maybe the brief has changed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If - and it's a big if - their design is only as good as the brief they've been given; would a reputable design agency, want to associate their reputation on that brief?
The damage to reputation, for the sake of a few silver coins, isn't exactly a business model based on longevity.

(27 Jun 2021, 10:41 am)Andreos1 wrote If - and it's a big if - their design is only as good as the brief they've been given; would a reputable design agency, want to associate their reputation on that brief?
The damage to reputation, for the sake of a few silver coins, isn't exactly a business model based on longevity.

Damage to their reputation - really

Maybe in the eyes of a few bus enthusiasts in the North East who do not like their style, but to the companies that are using them (and more and more from what I can see), I cannot see their reputation damaged  in any way if I am honest.

(27 Jun 2021, 11:08 am)citaro5284 wrote Damage to their reputation - really

Maybe in the eyes of a few bus enthusiasts in the North East who do not like their style, but to the companies that are using them (and more and more from what I can see), I cannot see their reputation damaged  in any way if I am honest.

I do not think Best Impressions are short of customers...

I personally like the new livery, pink does suit buses, like the little pinks and Connections 4 and like the old great exhibition of the North liveries back in 2018, which is what the front end reminds me of and is why I found it familiar when I seen it

(26 Jun 2021, 11:05 pm)BeachBoy99 wrote Absolutely! I completely agree with you mate. "Berries". What hilarity.

Ludicrous the lot of it. The network looks horrendous now. Stenning has ruined the image of this once great operator. He doesn't know shit from sand and I've loathed everything he's done design-wise for Go North East. I could have done a better job, and that's coming from someone who doesn't like his own work. You could have revolutionised it!! But no, they join the bandwagon and go with him and his laziness, like 99% of operators around the country. All because of money.

I'm also with you on what you said about the local attractions. There is SO much inspiration, yet he chooses a fruit — not to mention one which is totally irrelevant to the area. Pmsl.
Berries.  Eeeeeeee — what a laugh. 

I'm a bit surprised to see a designer completely slate another designer in a public forum. Whatever you think of Ray, he's an extremely well respected designer from his customers and peers alike.

Branding doesn't have to mean something and it doesn't have to be relevant to an area. What relevance does the word 'Microsoft' have to Washington DC where it was founded, yet that is one of the biggest brands in the world?

Bit in bold: Go on then. Lets see what you've got

(27 Jun 2021, 5:07 am)omnicity4659 wrote Very rushed, so excuse the overall quality and finish - but here's my suggestion for the 2/2A. 

Carrying on the Best Impressions "style" for the sake of realism and consistency (and I cba to create a whole new brand identity just for a forum)... so sorry Adam and streetdeckfan! 

Much like sending a 'Black Cats' brand to Washington, sending something called 'Wearsider' equally shows little knowledge about the town. Despite being part of the Sunderland since 1974, it is still a contentious issue in Washington that the Urban District Council was abolished and the perception that all their money goes towards Sunderland and the sea front. Branding should always be well researched and avoid these issues.

Despite my thoughts on the name, at least its reverting to be neutral again, much like the Silver Arrows.

(27 Jun 2021, 12:46 pm)Adrian wrote Despite my thoughts on the name, at least its reverting to be neutral again, much like the Silver Arrows.

I would like to see the "Silver Arrows" come back with a modern twist.

Edit:

With every non branded service in Sunderland getting the brand... is it time for me to have some sort of investment in paint?, as at least 43 buses need to be painted for the routes.... least every route at Sunderland will have stop announcements/WIFI/USB ports.......... I would imagine all the spares will be in "Go North East" livery?

Its also a perfect opportunity for the Citylink 57 Citaro's to get a repaint and head to Deptford to allow some sort of sequence in fleet numbers for the Citaro's, as they'll need to leave Riverside due to the zone thing coming in to place.

(27 Jun 2021, 12:46 pm)Adrian wrote I'm a bit surprised to see a designer completely slate another designer in a public forum. Whatever you think of Ray, he's an extremely well respected designer from his customers and peers alike.

Branding doesn't have to mean something and it doesn't have to be relevant to an area. What relevance does the word 'Microsoft' have to Washington DC where it was founded, yet that is one of the biggest brands in the world?

Bit in bold: Go on then. Lets see what you've got 


Much like sending a 'Black Cats' brand to Washington, sending something called 'Wearsider' equally shows little knowledge about the town. Despite being part of the Sunderland since 1974, it is still a contentious issue in Washington that the Urban District Council was abolished and the perception that all their money goes towards Sunderland and the sea front. Branding should always be well researched and avoid these issues.

Despite my thoughts on the name, at least its reverting to be neutral again, much like the Silver Arrows.

2/2A run along the side of the River Wear for the majority of its route, it's less of a connection to Sunderland than having "Sunderlanddistrict" on the side.

(27 Jun 2021, 12:46 pm)Adrian wrote Much like sending a 'Black Cats' brand to Washington, sending something called 'Wearsider' equally shows little knowledge about the town. Despite being part of the Sunderland since 1974, it is still a contentious issue in Washington that the Urban District Council was abolished and the perception that all their money goes towards Sunderland and the sea front. Branding should always be well researched and avoid these issues.

Except…Washington (certainly the part the route serves) is on or within 3 miles of the River Wear so whats the issue?  The bus even crosses Fatfield Bridge…over the Wear…

Personally think the Wearsider concept looks infinitely better than the berries nonsense.  And could easily meet the ‘Sunderland District’ brief by slapping that extra operator name in front of it.  Does Sunderland District Wearsider sound any more ridiculous than Sunderland District Berries?

I personally think some these newer brands are pointless and lack thought/creativity and the designer in question is simply void of ideas, a lot of what we are seeing now with Go North East is now new or creative and has been used time and time again with other operators across the country including First Group, Reading Buses and Transdev.

You'd think those who work in "Marketing" for Go North East who no doubt have a lot knowledge of the local area as whole would have more influence on the final produced product but for me it seems not to be the case, I think at this point having services branded after 15 years here in North East has run it's course and we should revert to having our old local identities such as Northern, Venture, Coastline, Wear Buses which everyone recognises and only keep a select few brands such as X-Lines, Angel, Crusader, Prince Bishops, Quaylink/City, Coaster & Cobalt & Coast given they are the only brands that having any meaning to them.

(27 Jun 2021, 1:23 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Except…Washington (certainly the part the route serves) is on or within 3 miles of the River Wear so whats the issue?  The bus even crosses Fatfield Bridge…over the Wear…

Personally think the Wearsider concept looks infinitely better than the berries nonsense.  And could easily meet the ‘Sunderland District’ brief by slapping that extra operator name in front of it.  Does Sunderland District Wearsider sound any more ridiculous than Sunderland District Berries?

This is why branding doesn't have to mean something or be relevant to an area. It is your interpretation that 'Wearsider' means following the Wear. I could interpret it as serving everywhere historically classed as Wearside (which it doesn't), and a third person could further interpret it as meaning something else.

I wouldn't have personally called it Berries, but naming a set of routes as a colour isn't too bad an idea and easy enough to remember. Its not much different to the Lime, which was around for years, and I recall this forum was quite vocal about the brand being dropped!

(27 Jun 2021, 2:51 pm)Malarkey wrote I personally think some these newer brands are pointless and lack thought/creativity and the designer in question is simply void of ideas, a lot of what we are seeing now with Go North East is now new or creative and has been used time and time again with other operators across the country including First Group, Reading Buses and Transdev.

You'd think those who work in "Marketing" for Go North East who no doubt have a lot knowledge of the local area as whole would have more influence on the final produced product but for me it seems not to be the case, I think at this point having services branded after 15 years here in North East has run it's course and we should revert to having our old local identities such as Northern, Venture, Coastline, Wear Buses which everyone recognises and only keep a select few brands such as X-Lines, Angel, Crusader, Prince Bishops, Quaylink/City, Coaster & Cobalt & Coast given they are the only brands that having any meaning to them.

That’s the annoying thing, most of these new brands have no local connection, and could be lifted and dropped into any operator around the country (or picked up from somewhere else and given to GNE)

The Berries one being almost a carbon copy of a route in Reading sums that up.

(27 Jun 2021, 9:41 pm)Wybus wrote That’s the annoying thing, most of these new brands have no local connection, and could be lifted and dropped into any operator around the country (or picked up from somewhere else and given to GNE)

The Berries one being almost a carbon copy of a route in Reading sums that up.

Why is it annoying and why do they need to? I genuinely don't understand that. Here's some of the most well-known brands in the world. Is anyone able to tell me what their local connection is?

• Apple
  
• Microsoft
  
• Google
  
• PepsiCo
  
• Coca Cola
  

Withhout stifling debate, we're talking about losing Customers etc but again does anyone outside this forum

A) Care
B) Know how Ray Stennings is?
C) Know that it's a copy of another brand in a town a few hundred miles away
D) See A

(28 Jun 2021, 8:25 am)Ambassador wrote Withhout stifling debate, we're talking about losing Customers etc but again does anyone outside this forum

A) Care
B) Know how Ray Stennings is?
C) Know that it's a copy of another brand in a town a few hundred miles away
D) See A

I'm on the forum... and I don't even know who he is...

(27 Jun 2021, 11:08 am)citaro5284 wrote Damage to their reputation - really

Maybe in the eyes of a few bus enthusiasts in the North East who do not like their style, but to the companies that are using them (and more and more from what I can see), I cannot see their reputation damaged  in any way if I am honest.

If - and it's a big if, passengers are more clued up than operators give them credit for and they start to question identikit identies or unusual brand-names?
Maybe it's not just a handful of enthusiasts in the NE who see through all of those things.

Or, passengers are a little less clued up than operators give them credit for, see a bus in another area and assume that the identikit liveries indicate that they're all the same company?

There's mention of internationally recognised brands in other parts of the conversation. People recognise Microsoft and Apple. They know they're different because logos, branding and everything else says so.

You also say that companies are using them more and more. Does that mean the designs and liveries are good or that nepotism and cronyism is alive and kicking? 
Nepotism and cronyism aren't good traits to have.
Just look at the tory government for that...

(28 Jun 2021, 9:43 am)Andreos1 wrote You also say that companies are using them more and more. Does that mean the designs and liveries are good or that nepotism and cronyism is alive and kicking? 
Nepotism and cronyism aren't good traits to have.
Just look at the tory government for that...

I'd say its more a niche market. I don't think they have a similar network of donors! 

It's not one I'm involved in, but a quick Google search as a prospective customer for 'public transport livery design' only presented two suitable results on the first page: Best Impressions and The Brand Surgery (who designed Stagecoach's Zone and Dots branding). If other designers aren't getting into those top handful of results, then potential customers aren't going to find them without word of mouth or directly targeted marketing. 

Best Impressions might not get everything right, but nor does any designer. Liveries, colours used, choice of fruit and so on are always going to be subjective, but whilst people on here are very quick to slate Best Impressions designs, they were just as quick with the company (whose name escapes me - and I cannot find them on Google!) that designed the likes of the Coast & Country, Prince Bishops and Durham Diamonds. Very rare do we see some counter ideas presented, though acknowledging the decent design that omnicity4659 attached to this thread and hopefully the one we're waiting for from beachboy99.

(28 Jun 2021, 10:21 am)Adrian wrote I'd say its more a niche market. I don't think they have a similar network of donors! 

It's not one I'm involved in, but a quick Google search as a prospective customer for 'public transport livery design' only presented two suitable results on the first page: Best Impressions and The Brand Surgery (who designed Stagecoach's Zone and Dots branding). If other designers aren't getting into those top handful of results, then potential customers aren't going to find them without word of mouth or directly targeted marketing. 

Best Impressions might not get everything right, but nor does any designer. Liveries, colours used, choice of fruit and so on are always going to be subjective, but whilst people on here are very quick to slate Best Impressions designs, they were just as quick with the company (whose name escapes me - and I cannot find them on Google!) that designed the likes of the Coast & Country, Prince Bishops and Durham Diamonds. Very rare do we see some counter ideas presented, though acknowledging the decent design that omnicity4659 attached to this thread and hopefully the one we're waiting for from beachboy99.

I get that liveries are subjective. Totally agree. Brand names are too. 
What I don't get, is why an operator who had clear and unique identities, ones which stood out as different to others - starts to use liveries which are as much the same as others up and down the country.

It was pointed out by citaro that others are doing the same.
It also seems that big cheeses at those operators also like a selfie or two with Stenning and have done for quite a while.
Whether there's one, two or fifty design agencies, I don't see many other selfies of their creatives with big cheeses on days out.

What I do see, is one of the few design agencies you mention using the same (or similar designs) across the UK.
Someone is either very confident that they can keep churning out these designs without work drying up; knows there's very little competition and can churn out designs without work going to a competitor or isn't able to influence decision makers within operators, so that they could do something that is different or unique and likely to stand out from the crowd.

Bib: did you mean Beacon?

(28 Jun 2021, 10:21 am)Adrian wrote I'd say its more a niche market. I don't think they have a similar network of donors! 

It's not one I'm involved in, but a quick Google search as a prospective customer for 'public transport livery design' only presented two suitable results on the first page: Best Impressions and The Brand Surgery (who designed Stagecoach's Zone and Dots branding). If other designers aren't getting into those top handful of results, then potential customers aren't going to find them without word of mouth or directly targeted marketing. 

Best Impressions might not get everything right, but nor does any designer. Liveries, colours used, choice of fruit and so on are always going to be subjective, but whilst people on here are very quick to slate Best Impressions designs, they were just as quick with the company (whose name escapes me - and I cannot find them on Google!) that designed the likes of the Coast & Country, Prince Bishops and Durham Diamonds. Very rare do we see some counter ideas presented, though acknowledging the decent design that omnicity4659 attached to this thread and hopefully the one we're waiting for from beachboy99.

Don’t hold your breath from a concept from me. I’m working on one for a Go North East brand that I’m going to present to MG for your information, because he understands my dedication. 

I’m done casting my views and opinions on this toxic place. I can do without this shit from people who think they can bully whoever they please behind their keyboards.

(28 Jun 2021, 5:32 pm)BeachBoy99 wrote Don’t hold your breath from a concept from me. I’m working on one for a Go North East brand that I’m going to present to MG for your information, because he understands my dedication. 

I’m done casting my views and opinions on this toxic place. I can do without this shit from people who think they can bully whoever they please behind their keyboards.

You were only asked if you could show us a concept, after you said you could do better? Not sure how you feel that is toxic or bullying... 

You made the claim. Nobody put words into your mouth.

Interesting View of a local down at the Town Moor when commenting on the new colours this morning. 'Canny colours them, club colours, just right for this area' and after telling me that I wouldn't see any of 'our' kids wearing Chelsea, Liverpool or even Barcelona shirts, I told the chap that they are to be called Berries. 'Berries, what the ****' with a comical expression... walked away chuntering away to himself....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/184063238@...en-public/

(28 Jun 2021, 6:17 pm)54APhotography wrote Interesting View of a local down at the Town Moor when commenting on the new colours this morning. 'Canny colours them, club colours, just right for this area' and after telling me that I wouldn't see any of 'our' kids wearing Chelsea, Liverpool or even Barcelona shirts, I told the chap that they are to be called Berries. 'Berries, what the ****' with a comical expression... walked away chuntering away to himself....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/184063238@...en-public/

Each service has a unique colour and name.
The Solos aren’t going to be called berries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(28 Jun 2021, 6:26 pm)Dan wrote Each service has a unique colour and name.
The Solos aren’t going to be called berries.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Winner! Little Black Cats is more apt. certainly the hard heads of the East End would appreciate that

(28 Jun 2021, 6:26 pm)Dan wrote
Each service has a unique colour and name.
The Solos aren’t going to be called berries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought all the non branded services were getting "Sunderland District?" or is it "Sunderland District then the name?" so like "Sunderland District Loop"

(28 Jun 2021, 6:42 pm)Michael wrote I thought all the non branded services were getting "Sunderland District?" or is it "Sunderland District then the name?" so like "Sunderland District Loop"

Yes, the latter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(28 Jun 2021, 6:46 pm)Dan wrote Yes, the latter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah right good idea tbh, don't want the same boring name on all the buses



For the Solo's - Sunderland District Minilinks

(28 Jun 2021, 6:51 pm)Michael wrote Ah right good idea tbh, don't want the same boring name on all the buses



For the Solo's - Sunderland District Minilinks

As I mentioned yesterday, the name will be “Sunderland District xxx”, with xxx being a descriptor of the colour of the front of the bus.

So the purpley pink colour for the 2/2A is ‘berries’, then there’ll be another name to describe this charcoal grey colour.

One brand family for the network in Sunderland. Bigger brands for Go North East’s more prestigious routes in Sunderland - Drifter, Prince Bishops, Cityrider etc - will retain their own dedicated names.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(28 Jun 2021, 6:59 pm)Dan wrote As I mentioned yesterday, the name will be “Sunderland District xxx”, with xxx being a descriptor of the colour of the front of the bus.

So the purpley pink colour for the 2/2A is ‘berries’, then there’ll be another name to describe this charcoal grey colour.

One brand family for the network in Sunderland. Bigger brands for Go North East’s more prestigious routes in Sunderland - Drifter, Prince Bishops, Cityrider etc - will retain their own dedicated names.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you, repaints seem to of stopped, is that because of the extra work gained from Gateshead Central Taxi's?

So basically Drifter and Prince Bishops won't change there name when they go for repaint

(28 Jun 2021, 7:07 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote So basically Drifter and Prince Bishops won't change there name when they go for repaint

Don't think they'll be repainted this year, could be end of next year due to the amount of repaints needed due to the CAZ zone coming in to force.

(28 Jun 2021, 6:59 pm)Dan wrote As I mentioned yesterday, the name will be “Sunderland District xxx”, with xxx being a descriptor of the colour of the front of the bus.

So the purpley pink colour for the 2/2A is ‘berries’, then there’ll be another name to describe this charcoal grey colour.

One brand family for the network in Sunderland. Bigger brands for Go North East’s more prestigious routes in Sunderland - Drifter, Prince Bishops, Cityrider etc - will retain their own dedicated names.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dan, will service 55 be in the Sunderland district theme, or will the 55 be incorporated into the new Peterlee theme?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk