"A NORTH EAST bus company has been accused of "wasting thousands" on paint jobs in favour of a "suitable" pay rise, creating ill-feeling among employees, it has been claimed.
Go North East, which operates services across County Durham, Teesside and Tyne & Wear, has been criticised for rebranding buses instead of offering a four percent rise.
It has since been claimed that some services facing disruption are suffering problems due to a number of staff walking out over the level of pay in recent weeks."

Full story: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...-pay-rise/

One worth following. Ballot is on Wednesday.

(06 Jul 2021, 7:47 am)Adrian wrote "A NORTH EAST bus company has been accused of "wasting thousands" on paint jobs in favour of a "suitable" pay rise, creating ill-feeling among employees, it has been claimed.
Go North East, which operates services across County Durham, Teesside and Tyne & Wear, has been criticised for rebranding buses instead of offering a four percent rise.
It has since been claimed that some services facing disruption are suffering problems due to a number of staff walking out over the level of pay in recent weeks."

Full story: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...-pay-rise/

One worth following. Ballot is on Wednesday.

They seem pretty out of touch with how much a pay rise costs in relation to a bit of paint and vinyl.

According to their accounts their spend on pay is around £50 million, so a 2% increase on that is around £1 million. If they want a 4% rise, that's another million.

I can't imagine painting a few buses is going to cost the same as 4 brand new fully loaded StreetDecks!

Especially when a lot of the work is being done internally.

In fact, here's an idea. If they think painting the buses is a waste of money, why not just let all of the staff that do the repaints go? Surely that'll free up a bit of cash for another 2% pay rise, right?

This was mentioned by Martin in his Facebook live stream. But seriously why go to the media to spread a story round

(06 Jul 2021, 8:18 am)Micheal Aaron wrote This was mentioned by Martin in his Facebook live stream. But seriously why go to the media to spread a story round

One word.

Attention

(06 Jul 2021, 8:18 am)Micheal Aaron wrote This was mentioned by Martin in his Facebook live stream. But seriously why go to the media to spread a story round

I imagine it'll be union led to try to shape public opinion which very rarely works but Union thinking is somewhat archaic and simplistic. 

2% is a really good offer in a period when it's hard to justify a pay rise when your business has been essentially state funded for the best part of a year, a reality check is needed (even if the Go Ahead share price is fairly healthy)

There's lots of private (and public) sector employees who have faced long periods of furlough at reduced pay and in a lot of cases redundancy and would murder their own granny for a 2% raise.

(06 Jul 2021, 8:34 am)Ambassador wrote I imagine it'll be union led to try to shape public opinion which very rarely works but Union thinking is somewhat archaic and simplistic. 

2% is a really good offer in a period when it's hard to justify a pay rise when your business has been essentially state funded for the best part of a year, a reality check is needed (even if the Go Ahead share price is fairly healthy)

There's lots of private (and public) sector employees who have faced long periods of furlough at reduced pay and in a lot of cases redundancy and would murder their own granny for a 2% raise.

The article seems to suggest that 2% would have been accepted for 2021, but there's nothing to cover the zero 'pay award' for 2020. Bus drivers, like other frontline workers, have kept the country moving throughout a pandemic. Not to mention all the flexibility associated with 'helping out' around the region. It'll be interesting to see what the ballot result is, and thus the strength of feeling.

I don't buy the race to the bottom argument. The public sector has had over a decade of pay restraint now, with successive Governments repeatedly finding further reasons to continue with it. Looks like the NHS staff are getting one medal to share, in addition to an insulting 1% offer.

(06 Jul 2021, 7:47 am)Adrian wrote "A NORTH EAST bus company has been accused of "wasting thousands" on paint jobs in favour of a "suitable" pay rise, creating ill-feeling among employees, it has been claimed.
Go North East, which operates services across County Durham, Teesside and Tyne & Wear, has been criticised for rebranding buses instead of offering a four percent rise.
It has since been claimed that some services facing disruption are suffering problems due to a number of staff walking out over the level of pay in recent weeks."

Full story: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...-pay-rise/

One worth following. Ballot is on Wednesday.

So these 'incidents' where buses aren't running and we see office or depot staff (fitters and the like) stepping in, isn't just Covid related?
Interesting. Particularly when we see and hear all those comments directed at GCT following their staffing issues.

All not well behind the scenes at Team GNE.

Hopefully we see this sorted soon and we don't have another Oxford Road on our hands.

Plus Martin even said that no company is making money. Especially after all the stuff that was said last year about public transport not being safe.

I still saw people complaining when Go North East put out there brand new Coaches and the X Lines X84/5 saying that they wasted money given by government

The rebrand of buses is to get people out there to use buses more. For all we know. These investment into the Coaches for the X9/X10 or any other route that has been rebrand. That it has slightly increased passenger numbers than it did before

Adding trips like the X11 or the B1 or having vintage bus services on them helped number as well

Like Martin said no company is making massive profits

Why criticise the staff member for criticising the company when if this was GCT or arriva people would be all over it and would be mega criticising the company but with GNE people are quick to defend them

(06 Jul 2021, 9:14 am)GNE6312 wrote Why criticise the staff member for criticising the company when if this was GCT or arriva people would be all over it and would be mega criticising the company but with GNE people are quick to defend them

Because the criticism makes absolutely no sense!

The amount they have spent on repaints/vinyls is probably an order of magnitude smaller than what would be required for even an extra 1% in pay.

They'd probably have to repaint the entire fleet several times over to even come close to what they've offered.

Who would want to be a bus driver in this day and age?

And I speak as someone who has a PSV license.

(06 Jul 2021, 9:35 am)streetdeckfan wrote Because the criticism makes absolutely no sense!

The amount they have spent on repaints/vinyls is probably an order of magnitude smaller than what would be required for even an extra 1% in pay.

They'd probably have to repaint the entire fleet several times over to even come close to what they've offered.

Really?
Even when you add in the associated design costs (Stenning needs to make a living too - even if the designs are copied and pasted from elsewhere or created using the automatic livery generator), fuel/plus drivers to get to and from Blackburn, raw materials and labour costs... That's just off the top of my head. 
Sure there will be other numbers which need to be accounted for too.

(06 Jul 2021, 9:14 am)GNE6312 wrote Why criticise the staff member for criticising the company when if this was GCT or arriva people would be all over it and would be mega criticising the company but with GNE people are quick to defend them

Exactly. Someone has obviously felt strongly enough about it to go to the media, which usually means they don't feel that their voice is being heard internally. In a free country we have the right to speak to who we like, and if the media choose to report on it, they obviously think there's enough public interest in doing so.

Nobody complains about Martijn talking to the media, or using his live streams to talk about the pay offer... 

(06 Jul 2021, 9:53 am)MurdnunoC wrote Who would want to be a bus driver in this day and age?

And I speak as someone who has a PSV license.

Some people just love buses.

(06 Jul 2021, 10:13 am)Andreos1 wrote Some people just love buses.

I guess. But the novelty must wear off, and even the most ardent enthusiast must get jaded after a while.

You have an affinity towards buses. What would make you change career?

(06 Jul 2021, 10:18 am)MurdnunoC wrote I guess. But the novelty must wear off, and even the most ardent enthusiast must get jaded after a while.

You have an affinity towards buses. What would make you change career?

I've worked in transport, I know what it can be like. However my career is different now. 
I ran my own business/consultancy for a while and although I had it on the back burner for a couple years - I've been PAYE for a period of time. 
Redundancy last year (following a period of furlough) actually forced my hand and like others, I changed career. I hoped it would have been temporary, but was open minded.
In the end, it was and earlier this year, I got back in to a similar role to one I was in prior to the pandemic. But with a larger employer and working with a much (extraordinarily) bigger client base.

I did wonder if going back down the transport route last summer was going to be an option. For a while I did look in to getting my hands dirty again. On evaluating my options and the investment needed (time and finance), I decided against it.

Interesting question.  For me personally, it's something I've always wanted to do and I'm still stubborn and naieve enough to do it.  One day, once the kids are older.  The shift work is what it is, and working with people you're always going to be in the wrong irrespective if you're a bus driver or shop worker.  Ultimately though it all boils down to money.  It would be a pay cut for me. Assuming the top end of the scale is £11.50-£12.00 ph I could just about get passed my wife.  But not the minimum wage training and £9.00 ish starting rate.

(06 Jul 2021, 11:23 am)Chris 1 wrote Interesting question.  For me personally, it's something I've always wanted to do and I'm still stubborn and naieve enough to do it.  One day, once the kids are older.  The shift work is what it is, and working with people you're always going to be in the wrong irrespective if you're a bus driver or shop worker.  Ultimately though it all boils down to money.  It would be a pay cut for me. Assuming the top end of the scale is £11.50-£12.00 ph I could just about get passed my wife.  But not the minimum wage training and £9.00 ish starting rate.

For me it's down to working with people, it's something I just can't tolerate! I don't think I'd last a day before kicking off with someone.

Even having to send emails at work I usually have to re-read through them and tone them down before sending!

Nice to see the usual lot are defending GNE at all costs as usual. The wage for GNE is absolutely crap especially those at a starter wage of £18,300 which is below the Living Wage of £18,525. Good on them for wanting more especially when they didn't get a wage increase in 2020. In context Stagecoach have jobs available at £9.91/hour which works out at £19,066.84 a year rising to £22876.36 after 5 years.

There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.

(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx wrote Nice to see the usual lot are defending GNE at all costs as usual. The wage for GNE is absolutely crap especially those at a starter wage of £18,300 which is below the Living Wage of £18,525. Good on them for wanting more especially when they didn't get a wage increase in 2020.  In context Stagecoach have jobs available at £9.91/hour which works out at £19,066.84 a year rising to £22876.36 after 5 years.

There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.

That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

(06 Jul 2021, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote For me it's down to working with people, it's something I just can't tolerate! I don't think I'd last a day before kicking off with someone.

Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 wrote That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

The Streetdecks were due to arrive late 2019 and were delayed due to issues at Wright. Then the start of pandemic delayed delivery again. However, they would of saved a lot with some of the order being diverted away from the NE.

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(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx wrote Nice to see the usual lot are defending GNE at all costs as usual. The wage for GNE is absolutely crap especially those at a starter wage of £18,300 which is below the Living Wage of £18,525. Good on them for wanting more especially when they didn't get a wage increase in 2020.  In context Stagecoach have jobs available at £9.91/hour which works out at £19,066.84 a year rising to £22876.36 after 5 years.

There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.

I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 wrote That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.

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(06 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm)JP6004 wrote

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I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500

For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 wrote That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Yeah it's what they're trying to say don't think they mean outright literally tho but I can imagine it being a, 'we want more money,' - 'sorry no money can't do that' - 'well why you repainting everything...?' scenario.

Must say that was basic salary there so excluding any overtime and was just using figures online (GNE site and a job application for SNE) so they might vary a bit in reality but obviously drivers aren't happy. The reviews of ex GNE staff leave a lot to be desired aswell. Stagecoach and Arriva being equally as bad but a lot of mentions of pay for GNE and favourites getting the overtime with unhealthy working hours which is never a good mix for morale.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm)Chris 1 wrote Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.

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For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.

Better than no job though

(06 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?

HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

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(06 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm)JP6004 wrote Better than no job though

It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem.

Going back many years when I first started in the industry you would find many drivers would do tour/private hire work in the summer (that's where the money was) and then do local service work in the winter.
Now in my opinion some of those that sit in the higher positions seem to easily forget what it was like as a driver, not forgetting the university trained manager whose never driven in service telling a 40 year veteran how the job should be done and you start on the slippery slope of low morale. Add in the poor shift patterns finish 00.30ish and back in for 9.30am and you'll see why some drivers are choosing a more attractive work/life balance.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:50 pm)Chris 1 wrote HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

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It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem. 

I think the attrition seen in low wage environments probably back that theory up.
Regardless of the sector.

If someone can get 20p an hour extra up the road with a competitor, the chances are they will go to the competitor up the road. Particularly if money is the motivating or driving factor.

I often see and hear of organisations desperate to reduce staff turnover. They will do all sorts to try and reduce it. Except make the wage attractive or in some cases - competitive.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 wrote That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

With the branding, if GNE painted all of their buses in corporate livery and had no brands at all, would this really have an effect on the amount of passengers using the service? I think it would hardly make any difference to the loadings at all. The average punter couldn't care less what colour the vehicle is, provided it is going where they need to go.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 wrote That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Stagecoach will always make money due to the demographic of most of their routes (i.e mainly City Centre).


Martijn's reasoning behind the original pre-pandemic investment and subsequent refreshes (funded by a different budget) make sense. Both will create growth.

Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.