(04 Jan 2014, 3:39 pm)Dan wrote I've previously made posts about a select few people who have said it in the past.
People should have the common sense to not say things which could be deemed offensive. Contrasting views and debates shouldn't offend anyone - comments like that could.

A comment on age relating to the arguments in the playground and your sly digs to me - pot, kettle, black?
It's ok, I didn't take offence with those.
Comments like that could offend someone.

I certainly wouldn't have brought up the age/playground thing if you hadn't littered your response with those casual digs about the debate tiring you out, being boring etc.
It certainly wasn't intended to cause offence.
We're both grown adults aren't we?

Anyway, thought we had moved on?

The Laser carries far more passengers than the Prince Bishops. The Prince Bishop services may appear to carry full loads, but like the West Durham Swift services, it isn't a particularly strong service.

Just a suggestion for the 20/20A, As some by the looks of don't think it's a Justifiable Investment for Geminis. Why not Split the PVR and have 6 Geminis and 6 Pulsar 2's Operating the Service, with a Further 2 Red Spares making the PVR 14 rather than 12.

Then you have from say Sunderland

02 - Gemini
12 - Pulsar 2
22 - Gemini
32 - Pulsar 2
42 - Gemini
52 - Pulsar 2

So in this Scenario the 20 at 12/32/52 Would use Pulsar 2's and the 20A at 02/22/42 would use Geminis, Then following Hours Departures would be switched so that the 20 uses Geminis and 20A uses Pulsars, Either way both Services would use 3 Geminis and 3 Pulsars, Which would provide great flexibility on the Service.

(04 Jan 2014, 5:29 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote Just a suggestion for the 20/20A, As some by the looks of don't think it's a Justifiable Investment for Geminis. Why not Split the PVR and have 6 Geminis and 6 Pulsar 2's Operating the Service, with a Further 2 Red Spares making the PVR 14 rather than 12.

Then you have from say Sunderland

02 - Gemini
12 - Pulsar 2
22 - Gemini
32 - Pulsar 2
42 - Gemini
52 - Pulsar 2

So in this Scenario the 20 at 12/32/52 Would use Pulsar 2's and the 20A at 02/22/42 would use Geminis, Then following Hours Departures would be switched so that the 20 uses Geminis and 20A uses Pulsars, Either way both Services would use 3 Geminis and 3 Pulsars, Which would provide great flexibility on the Service.

Split allocation should be a no-go from here on in, I think - so from that alone it's unlikely to happen.

If the Prince Bishops was to receive investment on top of the cascades which we believe to be planned for later this year, it would be a full double decked allocation and no doubt service changes would go through beforehand to try and help the Prince Bishops become more stable.

If they were more stable and every journey carried as many passengers as the 'canned sardines' scenarios, none of the previous discussion would have occurred and it would have been in line for investment, rather than a re-brand or cascades. If every, or even the majority, of journeys had that level of passenger numbers, it would undoubtedly beat the "Laser" hands down.

Thanks for the confirmation on the passenger numbers, Rob.

(04 Jan 2014, 4:49 pm)Rob wrote The Laser carries far more passengers than the Prince Bishops. The Prince Bishop services may appear to carry full loads, but like the West Durham Swift services, it isn't a particularly strong service.

I am surprised by that. also would like to know about how you can much such a statement, what figures have you used? Over what period etc. I can't believe the bishops aren't making enough money to warrant investment but there we go.

(04 Jan 2014, 6:52 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I am surprised by that. also would like to know about how you can much such a statement, what figures have you used? Over what period etc. I can't believe the bishops aren't making enough money to warrant investment but there we go.

Figures are produced daily.
I'm guessing Rob may have gone for the better option of looking at last month's overall loadings though - or even better, the loadings for the past three months. I suspect all of the results will be in favour of the "Laser" carrying more passengers than the "Prince Bishops" though, for Rob's post to be so definite.

(04 Jan 2014, 6:52 pm)CatsFast101 wrote I am surprised by that. also would like to know about how you can much such a statement, what figures have you used? Over what period etc. I can't believe the bishops aren't making enough money to warrant investment but there we go.

If you look at what we were both saying about the 20's and 35's, you can see why the 35's are making more money.

Whilst a 20 may attract a full load maybe twice on a journey, it doesn't go through the estates like the 35 does.

Say the 35 gets a decent load between Low Moorsley and The Burn Inn.
The majority will get off at Houghton, depending on where they are going.
It will get locals travelling to Burnside and pick up passengers heading to Sunderland from Burnside, Newbottle, the Herringtons and Silksworth - starting again at Park Lane towards Shields.

The 20 will pick up a decent load at Durham, gradually empty towards Houghton, but pick up a few from East Rainton onwards and be close to full by the time it leaves Houghton (inc passengers off the 35)- but, not making many more stops by the time it gets to Park Lane.

Patterns are reversed on the way back.

So whilst the 20s are making money, carrying decent numbers and get full, there aren't as many people getting on and off as there are the 35's.
There isn't the same turnover of passengers if that makes sense.

The 20 is obviously viable, otherwise we would have seen changes by now.

(04 Jan 2014, 7:00 pm)citaro5284 wrote Passenger numbers are looked at very frequently. We receive ETM data the following day as when the vehicles go back to the depot they download all of the data. Any analysis that is required can be done over any given period of time required (day, weeks, months) but of course analysis for things like new investment would not be done based on 1 day's numbers.

I understand you couldn't give out actual data, and I wouldn't ask for it, but can I ask whether loadings can accurately be accounted for now?

The reason I ask is that previously, with the old ETMs, I understand that only the the boardings could be accounted for - by either a ticket purchase or swipe card validation. Any alightments weren't actually recorded, so anyone using a ticket other than a single, return or get around multi-trip wasn't accounted for in this respect?

(04 Jan 2014, 7:10 pm)andreos1 wrote So whilst the 20s are carrying decent numbers and get full, there aren't as many people getting on and off as there are the 35's.
There isn't the same turnover of passengers if that makes sense.

Precisely this, yes.
There is a lot of competition in the area as you've mentioned, but if Go North East's fares are far superior to the competition, then you can understand why customers do travel on the "Laser" as opposed to a different service operated by Stagecoach.

I still stand by what I said earlier...
If a service warrants investment - no matter how big or small the competition in the area is, no matter how big or small the PVR is - it will receive it. Now more than ever before, with investment of so many vehicles planned each year.

Some journeys will have very high passenger numbers on the "Prince Bishops", as accounted for by anecdotes of 'canned sardines', but others will run very lightly. You really need a service to be stable before investing in it, and this is achieved by 'minor service changes', as we've all grown to know so well. Certain runs can't just be axed though, as from what I've seen, there is no set passenger rate on each run or indeed each day.

(04 Jan 2014, 7:14 pm)Dan wrote Precisely this, yes.
There is a lot of competition in the area as you've mentioned, but if Go North East's fares are far superior to the competition, then you can understand why customers do travel on the "Laser" as opposed to a different service operated by Stagecoach.

I still stand by what I said earlier...
If a service warrants investment - no matter how big or small the competition in the area is, no matter how big or small the PVR is - it will receive it. Now more than ever before, with investment of so many vehicles planned each year.
Some journeys will have very high passenger numbers on the "Prince Bishops", as accounted for by anecdotes of 'canned sardines', but others will run very lightly. You really need a service to be stable before investing in it, and this is achieved by 'minor service changes', as we've all grown to know so well. Certain runs can't just be axed though, as from what I've seen, there is no set passenger rate on each run and on each day.

Aren't the Sunderland GNE fares £1.35 or something, and Stagecoach are £1.55?

(04 Jan 2014, 7:19 pm)Tom wrote Aren't the Sunderland GNE fares £1.35 or something, and Stagecoach are £1.55?

I really have no idea... If it's a 20p saving rather than a poxy 5p or so, then it's obvious how much of the competition's passengers GNE are gonna snatch.
A 20p saving daily mounts up to be quite a bit!

If GNE also have a bus which has free Wi-Fi and power sockets to go alongside these great value fares, then it's quite possible more of the competition's passengers are going to try out your bus.

Like I said before, competition undoubtedly does play a minor part in the decision making of investment... Still don't think it's the ultimate decider though.

(04 Jan 2014, 7:11 pm)aureolin wrote I understand you couldn't give out actual data, and I wouldn't ask for it, but can I ask whether loadings can accurately be accounted for now?

The reason I ask is that previously, with the old ETMs, I understand that only the the boardings could be accounted for - by either a ticket purchase or swipe card validation. Any alightments weren't actually recorded, so anyone using a ticket other than a single, return or get around multi-trip wasn't accounted for in this respect?

Then you have the day tickets that aren't recorded by some drivers...

(04 Jan 2014, 7:22 pm)Dan wrote I really have no idea... If it's a 20p saving rather than a poxy 5p or so, then it's obvious how much of the competition's passengers GNE are gonna snatch.
A 20p saving daily mounts up to be quite a bit!

If GNE also have a bus which has free Wi-Fi and power sockets to go alongside these great value fares, then it's quite possible more of the competition's passengers are going to try out your bus.

Like I said before, competition undoubtedly does play a minor part in the decision making of investment... Still don't think it's the ultimate decider though.

I know when I've been on the X36, it's been £1.35 from Red House/Southwick e.g to the City Centre.

(04 Jan 2014, 9:23 pm)citaro5284 wrote And people over riding as well........

Guilty!
In summer, when photographing buses of a 10 minute frequency, I was jumping from bus to bus every few stops.
I would have altered the passenger numbers quite significantly if I had been counted.

(05 Dec 2013, 5:01 pm)Rob wrote Erm...

• Lime
  
• X66
  
• Laser
  
• Crusader
  
• Washington Street Shuttle
  

... prehaps

Lime good choice really badly needs these the renowns are roughly the same age as the ones used to be on the crusader would need to be single deckers due to low bridge

X66 very good choice needs to be either a nice single decker or a double decker i have seen a tyne tees express on plus yellow bus even northern sometimes on there

Laser probs double deckers good choice South Shields for photos if true

Crusader very good choice will probs have double deckers good thing i Hebburn is ideal for these photos as Nexus are nightmare recently i call them the Bullies

Washington Street Shuttle deffo a good candidate for Optare Solo SR Concord is a nice decent location for photos

(09 Jan 2014, 10:05 pm)Bazza Houston wrote Washington Street Shuttle deffo a good candidate for Optare Solo SR Concord is a nice decent location for photos

WSS no longer exists. Been removed from GNE's website now.

(09 Jan 2014, 10:05 pm)Bazza Houston wrote Lime good choice really badly needs these the renowns are roughly the same age as the ones used to be on the crusader would need to be single deckers due to low bridge

X66 very good choice needs to be either a nice single decker or a double decker i have seen a tyne tees express on plus yellow bus even northern sometimes on there

Laser probs double deckers good choice South Shields for photos if true

Crusader very good choice will probs have double deckers good thing i Hebburn is ideal for these photos as Nexus are nightmare recently i call them the Bullies

Washington Street Shuttle deffo a good candidate for Optare Solo SR Concord is a nice decent location for photos

Since Rob's post, theirs being lot of changes, (Nothing is confirmed)

X66 - Single decker - Longer version though
Lime - Citaro
Crusader - Decker
Laser - Decker
Toon Link - Citaro?
Fab57 - Citrao/Streetlite

Oh and all orders now require to be Euro 6 engine

Plans can change so... the list might change (i'm going by posts on here)

(09 Jan 2014, 10:05 pm)Bazza Houston wrote Lime good choice really badly needs these the renowns are roughly the same age as the ones used to be on the crusader would need to be single deckers due to low bridge

X66 very good choice needs to be either a nice single decker or a double decker i have seen a tyne tees express on plus yellow bus even northern sometimes on there

Laser probs double deckers good choice South Shields for photos if true

Crusader very good choice will probs have double deckers good thing i Hebburn is ideal for these photos as Nexus are nightmare recently i call them the Bullies

Washington Street Shuttle deffo a good candidate for Optare Solo SR Concord is a nice decent location for photos

I bazza Solo SR's on the M2/M3, More like Versas or Streetlites with SR's on the W5/W6

(09 Jan 2014, 10:15 pm)aureolin wrote WSS no longer exists. Been removed from GNE's website now.

Everyone knows that. It's just easier to refer to the group of services like that such as West Durham Swift.

Any news on orders?

(11 Jan 2014, 9:27 am)citaro5284 wrote No!

Alright!

(09 Jan 2014, 11:15 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote I bazza Solo SR's on the M2/M3, More like Versas or Streetlites with SR's on the W5/W6

Versas would be ideal for M2/M3 as it goes a long route W5/W6 might be ideal for Solos but Streetlites are another option for M2/M3

As we were on the topic of the M2/M3/W5/W6 formerly (Washington Street Shuttle) Services a few days back, I decided to make 2 Paperbuses, so we are.

Wright Streetlite

[attachment=5154]

Optare Versa

[attachment=5155]

Myself personally I like the look of Streetlite and how the Rear (Circles) over the Wheel Arches work Perfectly into the Panel under Windows towards the Rear with thanks to Wrightbuses styling of those Windows.

(16 Jan 2014, 3:20 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote As we were on the topic of the M2/M3/W5/W6 formerly (Washington Street Shuttle) Services a few days back, I decided to make 2 Paperbuses, so we are.

Wright Streetlite



Optare Versa



Myself personally I like the look of Streetlite and how the Rear (Circles) over the Wheel Arches work Perfectly into the Panel under Windows towards the Rear with thanks to Wrightbuses styling of those Windows.

Not a bad design, apart from dark blue on black doesn't work.

(16 Jan 2014, 3:27 pm)aureolin wrote Not a bad design, apart from dark blue on black doesn't work.

That is true, I couldn't be bothered last night to go over the blue in "White" so I kept it as it was as I thought it looked ok.

1 spare.

Where all my post gone???!!!! It was three blooming paragraphs!!!! Oh god I CBA to type it put again tonight I'll do it tomorrow!!

(16 Jan 2014, 10:55 pm)CatsFast101 wrote 1 spare.

?

To bump this slightly, following on from discussion in the main GNE thread...

(30 Dec 2013, 3:52 pm)Dan wrote I can't see "Washington Street Shuttle" getting investment. Cascades in 2015, maybe...

- X66
- Lime
- Crusader
- Laser
- Toon Link
- Fab57

If I recall correctly, that adds up to 80 buses nicely - taking into consideration the additional spare vehicles which will come with investment with PVRs over 8.

The "Centurion" will only ever be worthy of cascades. OmniCitys seem ideal, if you ask me. Didn't I just mention depot standardisation?

- X66
Vehicles withdrawn

- Lime
4850-55 withdrawn, 4896-4902 cascaded to replace older B10BLEs

- Crusader
14x Citaros available for cascade - perhaps 9 to Stanley for "Red Kite", and the remaining 5 to Stanley for X30/X31, with a number of doors open for the cascades (one of which being the "Centurion")?

- Laser
12x Citaros available for cascade - perhaps all 12 to remain at Deptford for use on "Prince Bishops" service 20, in turn allowing the currently allocated Solars to replace B10BLEs in the fleet?

- Toon Link
4841 and 5144-50 withdrawn, 4978-82 perhaps to take a "spare role" in the fleet to replace older spare vehicles. "South Tyne" 5 comes to mind with this one too.

- Fab57
Vehicles withdrawn

(11 Feb 2014, 5:14 pm)Dan wrote - X66
Vehicles withdrawn

- Lime
4850-55 withdrawn, 4896-4902 cascaded to replace older B10BLEs

- Crusader
14x Citaros available for cascade - perhaps 9 to Stanley for "Red Kite", and the remaining 5 to Stanley for X30/X31, with a number of doors open for the cascades (one of which being the "Centurion")?

- Laser
12x Citaros available for cascade - perhaps all 12 to remain at Deptford for use on "Prince Bishops" service 20, in turn allowing the currently allocated Solars to replace B10BLEs in the fleet?

- Toon Link
4841 and 5144-50 withdrawn, 4978-82 perhaps to take a "spare role" in the fleet to replace older spare vehicles. "South Tyne" 5 comes to mind with this one too.

- Fab57
Vehicles withdrawn

Not sure if the red kite brand would suit the Citaro's, how ever you never know!

I agree with all above though, the Pulse will also get newer buses to

Would be nice to see purple citaro's with black at the top!